MS Confirms Online Connection, Game Borrowing and Used Game Details

Adam Locking

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Aug 10, 2012
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Zeh Don said:
MrWunderful said:
...So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality...
What is this? Did I say "boycott" every developer, publisher, indie, TV content producer, musician, director, film studio and accessory manufacturer who worked on Microsoft's "console"?

If the public accepts Microsoft's new console, then that's it. Publishers will have won their war against the consumer. Do you think, with absolute control over the entire industry, that this will somehow be of benefit to you?
Cheaper games? Why? They've killed off the second hand market. They never have to compete or lower sale prices. Ever.
Better games? Why? Their wonderful new system prevents you from getting rid of them. Review embargoes prevent you from knowing it's terrible until you've bought it, and then you're stuck with it. Forever.
More games? Why? Their brand new revenue stream ensures more money from less sales - which they'll simply pocket, as has been their stated intention for the past entire console generation.

Microsoft have created a console that makes the end user irrelevant. It's a Publisher's wet dream, and a consumer's nightmare. If you buy it, you're telling them "I don't want my rights! I don't want to own anything! I want DRM! More DRM on everything!"
The problem is Microsoft and their console. Anyone who buys it, is killing the industry. If you fail to understand that, then they're clearing selling to the right crowd.
I'm mainly reposting this because it makes the best argument I've seen so far for why the xbone is a horrible machine.

I'd like to add that the machine is almost certainly not going to work on day one. Between the usual problems that ALWAYS plague day one launches, to the inevitable anon DDOS attack on their servers, there's going to be a lot of rage come release.
 

StriderShinryu

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votemarvel said:
The difference with games from Steam or Origin is that they can be 'fixed' to remove the need for the distribution service to be running. You can remove the internet requirement and not risk a ban.

Save the 'fix' on your hard drive for when you need to game offline and you're golden. Your connection comes back and you remove the 'fix' to play online.

You'll have no such flexibility with the Xbox One.

It really seems that the consoles are taking on all the negative aspects of the PC but without adding in the positives to compensate.
To be fair to MS (hey, someone has to), we don't know for a fact that this is the case. It is possible that the need to check in with mommy and daddy every 24 hours is something that can be turned off. We don't know at what level these check ins are rquired. They can say all they want now that it's a necessary part of the gaming experience, but they also say that the conditions they've outlined to this point may change at any time.

SonOfVoorhees said:
StriderShinryu said:
So it seems MS has confirmed that the One will need to connect online at least once every 24 hours to play either Online or Offline.
Do you remember when PSN got hacked and it was down for a month? Well if this happens to xbone, does that mean your console is a brick because it cant do the 24 hour check in with MS?
At the moment, it sounds like yes, your One will be little more than the TV watching device MS orignally showed it off as should their authentication servers go down. I suppose there might be some sort of programming within the One that can detect specific errors and skip the check in if a certain situation like that occurs, but I doubt it as that's just asking for hackers to find a way to spoof the system and play totally offline all the time.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Hey, I didn't read through most of this, just the first page and this one, but I'd like something cleared up if someone would be so kind.

The Digital television transition act of 2009 made it mandatory for all tv to be digital. Meaning you have to hook up your tv to something so you can get a show. Cable for most of us. And our cable is where most of us get our net nowadays.

So... In a situation where the cable goes out... you can't play your games OR watch your TV. The Power is still there but you can't play. Is that wrong or right?
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Mar 2, 2011
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StriderShinryu said:
votemarvel said:
The difference with games from Steam or Origin is that they can be 'fixed' to remove the need for the distribution service to be running. You can remove the internet requirement and not risk a ban.

Save the 'fix' on your hard drive for when you need to game offline and you're golden. Your connection comes back and you remove the 'fix' to play online.

You'll have no such flexibility with the Xbox One.

It really seems that the consoles are taking on all the negative aspects of the PC but without adding in the positives to compensate.
To be fair to MS (hey, someone has to), we don't know for a fact that this is the case. It is possible that the need to check in with mommy and daddy every 24 hours is something that can be turned off. We don't know at what level these check ins are rquired. They can say all they want now that it's a necessary part of the gaming experience, but they also say that the conditions they've outlined to this point may change at any time.
I really doubt you'll be able to turn it off, they would have said so. They've seen how badly the idea of always on was received from the fiasco from that one guy, and they went for a seemingly milder "once every 24 hours" to try to keep that aspect in yet also appease the consumer base, which hasn't received any more love than the always on it's trying not to be.
 

Colt47

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ObsidianJones said:
Hey, I didn't read through most of this, just the first page and this one, but I'd like something cleared up if someone would be so kind.

The Digital television transition act of 2009 made it mandatory for all tv to be digital. Meaning you have to hook up your tv to something so you can get a show. Cable for most of us. And our cable is where most of us get our net nowadays.

So... In a situation where the cable goes out... you can't play your games OR watch your TV. The Power is still there but you can't play. Is that wrong or right?
This is where a lot of people get confused. The internet service and the cable TV both go through the same cable connection, but that doesn't mean they are the same service. It's completely possible to lose your net connection but still have access to your TV network if somewhere down the pipeline the internet connection gets cut before being transmitted on the cable line.
 

Dark5tar1

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Well, I guess this is goodbye, MS. I will no longer support anything related to the Xbox console now.

OT: I really liked the Xbox 360 until the past 2 years, the shift towards entertainment and kinect really turned me off but I won't get the Xbone. Hopefully PS4 won't do this or it'll be PC/Wii U for me.
 

zinho73

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Feb 3, 2011
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sneakypenguin said:
Pretty innocuous I think but for some without a cellphone or no internet it might get annoying. Pretty much like steam really.
No, it is not.
Let me show you why:

1. The major difference is that steam is basically an online store and not a gaming platform. I can have a PC and choose not to use steam and I would still have access to a plethora of gaming goodness. I cannot have an XBOX and choose to not bow to their rules.

2. Online access: In Steam I can be offline for as long as I want - at least it has been the case with my games, unless of course I'm downloading an actual game or playing some kind of MMO or multiplayer stuff.

3- Valve promised that, after Steam closes, they will find a way for the games work without Steam. It might be an empty promise but it is better than Microsoft silence.

4- Sales. The dollars saved by not having boxes are being re-passed to the consumer. Yeah, MS can do the same but I would not hold my breath.

5- Backwards compatibility - the fact that I have Steam does not block my computer from playing everything that I had prior. Better yet, my next computer will still play most of the titles I buy there.

6- Steam does not have kinect.

7- Steam is free, you only pay for the games. You have to at least buy Xbone to have the right to be inconvenienced, and you probably will have to pay some kind of subscription to have online gaming.

And I could go on. Yes, the idea is to copy the Steam model, but the amount of control MS wants to have is ridiculous.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Colt47 said:
ObsidianJones said:
Hey, I didn't read through most of this, just the first page and this one, but I'd like something cleared up if someone would be so kind.

The Digital television transition act of 2009 made it mandatory for all tv to be digital. Meaning you have to hook up your tv to something so you can get a show. Cable for most of us. And our cable is where most of us get our net nowadays.

So... In a situation where the cable goes out... you can't play your games OR watch your TV. The Power is still there but you can't play. Is that wrong or right?
This is where a lot of people get confused. The internet service and the cable TV both go through the same cable connection, but that doesn't mean they are the same service. It's completely possible to lose your net connection but still have access to your TV network if somewhere down the pipeline the internet connection gets cut before being transmitted on the cable line.
Oh Good. That just means my cable is shit given that they both go off at the same time. Whelp, can't blame this one one Microsoft.

It's good to learn new things.
 

Colt47

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Oct 31, 2012
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ObsidianJones said:
Colt47 said:
ObsidianJones said:
Hey, I didn't read through most of this, just the first page and this one, but I'd like something cleared up if someone would be so kind.

The Digital television transition act of 2009 made it mandatory for all tv to be digital. Meaning you have to hook up your tv to something so you can get a show. Cable for most of us. And our cable is where most of us get our net nowadays.

So... In a situation where the cable goes out... you can't play your games OR watch your TV. The Power is still there but you can't play. Is that wrong or right?
This is where a lot of people get confused. The internet service and the cable TV both go through the same cable connection, but that doesn't mean they are the same service. It's completely possible to lose your net connection but still have access to your TV network if somewhere down the pipeline the internet connection gets cut before being transmitted on the cable line.
Oh Good. That just means my cable is shit given that they both go off at the same time. Whelp, can't blame this one one Microsoft.

It's good to learn new things.
Yeah, if both go off that means the cable line itself got cut or damaged somewhere.
 

slyph

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Apr 15, 2009
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Game over Microsoft.

This generation most of my time has gone into the X360, I thought it was a good console with strong games and since I do all my MP on the PC, I didn't bother paying for XBLA. The only online I really wanted off Xbox was Forza 4, but that wasnt worth the Gold subscription to me. I also championed against early Sony and their willful dishonesty, warping the truth where it didn't fit a marketing point and flat-out lying when they needed a wider base. Now that the PS3 lie-machine has fallen silent, it's actually an alright console.

To clarify, I own pretty much every console and have time in them all, I also have a Steam library that would dwarf some smaller branches of Game and the entire 16-bit generation emulated on my phone. I put time into any game system that looks worth the time and fun.

This though.... this is so obviously a product of a marketing and development team who all come from precisely the same cultural, political and economic background. Be white American, live in a four-bedroom home with a huge living room dominated by a 42-inch plasma, have an endless supply of income to smooth over the little bumps and be interested in sports, guns and television. And you know what, be right-wing. Sorry, but this is right-wing in console form.

I honestly can't think of a single one of my friends or relatives this product appeals to, it is awful. Five hardcore X360 owners I know have already sworn off it on principle, feeling pretty much like Steve Balmer will be watching them jerk off to BluRays between Halo sessions and sending strokes-per-minute information to the porn companies for profit. My mother, who bought a 360 on impulse and loved it, has refused to even talk about this new one because she buys most of her games on eBay and now she can't. My girlfriend, who accepts non-Nintendo consoles only grudgingly but came around to the 360 for indie games on XBLA is now gutted that MS are screwing the indie community and also refuses to even look at this.

Nobody wants one except little children who are just old enough to understand advertising but not much older.

Microsoft can paddle back from their announcements all they want, they can "Hear the users" and tweak numbers and boundaries all they want, what this latest news demonstrates is how poorly they respect the gamer and the gaming industry and how retrograde they've become, trying to supplant a 90s medium by tacking it onto a 60s one that they understand better.

Nope, it's Steambox for me, and PS4 IF they wise up and offer proper used game support. Otherwise, PC gaming for me.
 

loa

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Jan 28, 2012
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All of those "features" sound like restrictions.
They even had to put "allow everyone to play all your games on your console free of charge!!!" on that list as a "feature" which is hilarious and telling.
 

Jabberwock King

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I personally wouldn't run into any issues under this system, as I always have a good internet connection, never sell my games, nor do I know anyone who I lend games to. But I cannot condone it as I fear what it will lead to, more hassle, more intrusive systems, and more roadblocks between me and a good time.

I'm hoping that this system drives as much business away as possible, prompting the firing of the design team and management responsible for this mess. Afterwards, the next project should revolve around patching out this system or releasing an updated box that doesn't use it.
 

Griffolion

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Aug 18, 2009
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Polygon did a good opinion piece about the Xbox One. It's quite clear MS has thrown their lot in with the big corporations and left the consumer out in the cold.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/7/4406170/xbox-one-internet-trade-policy
 

GonzoGamer

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MrWunderful said:
Zeh Don said:
Anyone - anyone - who buys this piss-poor excuse for a console is basically killing the industry.
I don't agree with that at all. So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality.
So you're saying we should reward them anyway? It's that kind of attitude that's made it so easy for capitalism to mutate into looterism. There are plenty of companies that have been able to maximize profit this generation by just making quality games that people want to buy and not looking for every little way to squeeze a little more money out of their customers.

I had a big enough problem with the online pass bs but this whole thing is getting way too elaborate and we only have a vague idea of how it works.
 

auron200004

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Didn't an analyst recently state that Microsoft should drop their XBox division? Because with that in mind, I'm starting to think that they're doing this on purpose. They're going to cause their share of the market to crash and burn and THEN sell it, to piss that one guy off. That must be it. Nobody would make such shitty backwards decisions otherwise.
 

mbarker

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My Broadband limit was just dropped from 250GB to 100GB so I don't evrn have enough for school and typical everyday usage with out having to pay overages. The last thing I need is a gamming machine to suck up any of my precious bandwidth.

Who is MS trying to market to? Young males who don't really play videogames and send money on stupid gimmicky crap.
 

frizzlebyte

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Oct 20, 2008
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Looks like I'll be skipping the XBOne. I've always thought of my games library as being much like my book and music library. If I want to give something away to someone, or if I want to let someone borrow it, I should be able to do that as many times as I want, and my friend should still be able to give it back to me when he/she is done.

This just puts the power over my stuff into the hands of Microsoft and all the other companies who *will* follow suit, including Sony, unless there is a massive backlash that makes it unprofitable to do this.

I'm beginning to think this new-fangled "digital age" is actively trying to vomit me off this planet.
 

MrWunderful

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May 27, 2013
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GonzoGamer said:
MrWunderful said:
Zeh Don said:
Anyone - anyone - who buys this piss-poor excuse for a console is basically killing the industry.
I don't agree with that at all. So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality.
So you're saying we should reward them anyway? It's that kind of attitude that's made it so easy for capitalism to mutate into looterism. There are plenty of companies that have been able to maximize profit this generation by just making quality games that people want to buy and not looking for every little way to squeeze a little more money out of their customers.

I had a big enough problem with the online pass bs but this whole thing is getting way too elaborate and we only have a vague idea of how it works.
Thats not what I said at all, but people are going to assume whatever they want. I just don't want to see small publishers fail at the hands of another company. It will just take more effort to support the smaller companies in other ways. That Is what I meant but I didnt convey it clearly, sorry.
 

GonzoGamer

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MrWunderful said:
GonzoGamer said:
MrWunderful said:
Zeh Don said:
Anyone - anyone - who buys this piss-poor excuse for a console is basically killing the industry.
I don't agree with that at all. So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality.
So you're saying we should reward them anyway? It's that kind of attitude that's made it so easy for capitalism to mutate into looterism. There are plenty of companies that have been able to maximize profit this generation by just making quality games that people want to buy and not looking for every little way to squeeze a little more money out of their customers.

I had a big enough problem with the online pass bs but this whole thing is getting way too elaborate and we only have a vague idea of how it works.
Thats not what I said at all, but people are going to assume whatever they want. I just don't want to see small publishers fail at the hands of another company. It will just take more effort to support the smaller companies in other ways.
Well, if the shit really hits the fan, everyone is screwed, even us...for a little while.
But the fact remains that most of the people who work in games do actually do it "for the love of it." It's a career that involves a lot of work, usually without a lot of pay. So the good news is that if everything really does fall apart, we will see a lot of new smaller devs rise from the ashes. They'll have less money behind them but they'll also have less pressure from the people with money to do all the crazy things we've been complaining about.
 

Sectan

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Aug 7, 2011
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Reading about trading games and that it sounds like steam. Except without the modding, game deals, F2P games and basically any other advantage having a PC would entail.

OT: Consoles used to be the pick up and go machine. You wanted to play a game with no hassle you bought a console, you stuck the game in, you turned it on and you were at the main menu ticking your name into the game start. Got bored of the game, you traded it in and got a little money.

Where as with PC there was a bit more of the ticking boxes, changing your settings, possibly changing ini files and all that. Biggest time consumer out of the whole process is installing/downloading you game. If the game sucked you got stuck with your game and that was it.

That was a console's strength over PC and that isn't what the Xboner is providing anymore. Consoles will lose if they try to compete in the same categories as PC so I have no idea why Microsoft is trying.