Music Elitists

Stalkingpanda14

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Feb 18, 2013
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On the internet, I tend to see on a lot of elitism in the medium of music. You know, whining about how Justin Bieber is complete crap and X is so much better. A lot of elitism I see comes from metalheads and classic rock fans, which strikes me as odd. What makes Van Halen and Cannibal Corpse so much more legitimate than whatever's in the top ten right now? I mostly listen to prog rock. Stuff with 5 minute keyboard solos and mellotrons. 20 minute 5 movement epics and mellotrons, stuff like that. You don't see me whining about Justin Bieber and how Dream Theater is REAL MUSIC. I find it rather funny when I see this behavior from classic rock fans. How is Led Zeppelin IV an artistic masterpiece? Black Dog's lyrics go

Hey hey mama said the way you move,
Gon' make you sweat, gon' make you groove.
Ah-ah child way you shake that thing,
Gon' make you burn, gon' make you sting.


Read more: LED ZEPPELIN - BLACK DOG LYRICS

and you're expecting me to agree that classic rock is so above Katy Perry? AC/DC and Guns n' Roses are, by my definition, pop music. They write commercial, accessible music that follows the 4 chords, verse/chorus, three minutes structure. It's not much different from Justin Bieber. Now, there is also elitism from the "hipster" crowd, fans of indie rock and obscure artists. I don't listen to any indie rock, but what makes it so superior to top 40 music? Like I said, I listen to a lot of progressive rock and metal, but I don't think my music taste is more valid than people who listen to rap music (and btw, I realize that rap isn't the mindless crap some people think it is.)
 

BathorysGraveland2

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Feb 9, 2013
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I've always seen musical elitism as people who are just very, very passionate about their genres and bands. Ultimately, it's all their opinion, so I don't know why so many have a problem with them. Do people really get so worked up over the opinions of others?
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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Anything that isn't either 3 Inches of Blood or part of a good game or anime soundtrack is complete piss and doesn't deserve any of my time.

Obviously i'm joking, but I will say that I find music that was crafted for a singular purpose I.E. for a game has a lot more going on for it in general. In particular I LOVE any good character soundtracks. Fuckin' BlazBlue soundtrack won't get out of my head.


The demented piano kind of doing its own thing in the background is AWESOME.

It's probably the same kinda thing with 3IOB as well. Most of their songs are them just telling a badass fantasy story through screaming and guitars. So I guess I like music that has a point or story. No, going on about how your ex-girlfriend was a ***** and/or a great gal no please don't leave me :(((((((((( doesn't count.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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Mar 27, 2012
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As a music student, I see music elitism a lot and it pisses me right off. They seem to think that because they're at college that their opinion has suddenly ceased to be subjective and is now fact.

They also seem unable to realize that music isn't that important to a lot of people's lives. If they're not seeking out artistically challenging music, maybe it's because they just want something to sing along to in the car and not something challenging? The wonderful irony being that half of the people at my college who are like this listen to Avenged Sevenfold and Bullet For My Valentine and then cry "elitist!" whenever somebody criticizes them.
 

Esotera

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But pop music has been getting simpler, louder, and more bland for the last 50 years or so, especially since computers became more accessible. The vast majority of pop these days is just some random person singing over a bog-standard chord progression, and they don't even have to sing that well. There are a few pop artists that I like and consider talented, but that's not preventing me from writing off most of the genre as complete and utter rubbish.

I would also argue that Justin Bieber is inherently shit, and that this is a fundamental physical constant woven into the fabric of our universe...
 

ubersyanyde

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Dec 9, 2011
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The only notable form of elitism I've encountered other than the classic rock fanatics are people that flat out refuse accept a genre exists because they "it doesn't fit the textbook definition of music" or "it requires no talent" (ie. stop liking what I don't like) <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.385559-Poll-Dubstep-Music-or-not-music>cough <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.385982-Do-you-hate-people-who-argue-till-they-are-blue-in-the-face-even-though-you-know-they-are-wrong?page=1>cough

But what really gets my goat about casual music elitism is when people compare lyrics as if they mean anything musically, à la OP's post. Heck, all music could be discussing the merits of cheese toasties in its lyrics and it wouldn't make a difference as long as they fit rhythmically.

Then again, maybe I'm not qualified to have this opinion. The only vocal focused music I listen to is the Wu-Tang Clan and Taylor Swift amongst an ocean of lyricless EDM.
 

MisterGobbles

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Elitist? That's a fantastic band!


I don't really think most of the internet music elitism is focused on proponents of one genre hating another, I think it's mostly people shitting on a certain band/group/songwriter because they're not "insert genre here" enough, or just because they hate them compared to other bands in said genre and are very vocal about it. But maybe that's just me spending too much time on Sputnikmusic.

As far as myself, I won't deny being a little elitist at times. Most of my friends listen to chuggachug hardcore that I consider extremely generic, and it's hard not to be a little mentally condescending when reading their posts on Facebook about how awesome said bands are. Still, I accept that people will enjoy what they will, and I realize that the only way I got where I am with my tastes is spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours looking up and listening to bands, and that no one should have that much free time on their hands anyway.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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Whilst I'm not exactly passionate about it, there's a vague point somewhere. I generally respect bands more that have worked their way up the traditional way, by touring and writing their own music, than people who wandered onto The X Factor or whatever. Even artists I dislike and don't really enjoy, I'll still have some amount of respect for them if they've put the legwork in. Touring for small bands is hard work, if they've managed to make a living out of it then fair play to them. I don't really feel that artists that got to where they are because they're singing a song someone wrote for them and they have a pretty face have paid their dues.

Bieber was picked up off youtube, singing someone else's song; he didn't slog up and down the country in a shitty little van, he didn't spend hours in his room with a guitar writing his songs. He's a success because teenage girls fancy him, and for no other reason.
 

Ranorak

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Feb 17, 2010
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Because I respect their skills as musicians, not just as artists.

To me, it's infinity harder to play a good guitar solo, live, with 3 or 4 other band members while staying on key, and all on the same 1,2,3 and 4's.

Opposed to standing on stage lip-syncing while your back ground dancer put more time in their work then you ever did.

Or earning your fortune by having the auto-tune squeeze your voice is such a way that even GLaDos sounds human.

I have respect for bands like Iron Maiden, still touring, still making great albums for more then 20 years, while current pop-stars are not artists, they're products.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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ubersyanyde said:
The only notable form of elitism I've encountered other than the classic rock fanatics are people that flat out refuse accept a genre exists because they "it doesn't fit the textbook definition of music" or "it requires no talent" (ie. stop liking what I don't like) <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.385559-Poll-Dubstep-Music-or-not-music>cough <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.385982-Do-you-hate-people-who-argue-till-they-are-blue-in-the-face-even-though-you-know-they-are-wrong?page=1>cough
:D

on topic yeah music elitism pisses me off...it comes in different forms, one being "classic rock" the absolute height of all music ever (mostly found on youtube)...when that stuff can be just as dumb as ever and I'm not exactly a fan of rock music....I feel like alot of the time is not bad just "yeah Ive heard this before" a fun thing to do was go on youtube and and find a video from the past...no matter what era 60's, 70's 80's 90's a bunch of people would be saying "this was the last good music";...that or hating on justin beiber on a fucking death metal music video

I'm not above a little elitism myself, but the difference is I dont dismiss entire genres or belive it takes less talent because its "made by a computer" (I mean there is rock I do like) and I admit I do tend to learn towards the more obscure since alot of mainstream is crap..BUT there is some mainstream I abolutly love like Ellie Goulding

the one time I am elitist is that fucking song by greenday....youve probably heard it playing at some highschool graduation or whatever. Where everyone cries and basks in the awsomeness of that fucking song

its not that great of a song...its just standard soppy medicore crap *grumble*
ScrabbitRabbit said:
They also seem unable to realize that music isn't that important to a lot of people's lives. If they're not seeking out artistically challenging music, maybe it's because they just want something to sing along to in the car and not something challenging? The wonderful irony being that half of the people at my college who are like this listen to Avenged Sevenfold and Bullet For My Valentine and then cry "elitist!" whenever somebody criticizes them.
thats true...not everyone cares enough to activly seek out music

I think music is important because I'm ALWAYS seeking out somthing different, I think I get bored with my playlists very easyly so I need somthing else...

unrelated but the really funny thing is when I go through the "alterntive" section of Itunes (indie) it all sounds the same...multilayered vocals (sound sounds the beatles) with some rocky foly type stuff (yeah I'm not an expert)
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Spot1990 said:
The real question is why we judge pop stars who don't write their own songs, aren't very good musicians but have a pretty face, a good voice and charisma yet Elvis Presley's the King.
because back then was a magical era where music gave us all the ability to shit gold...

the thing is I dont know what goes into the process with certain record label popstars...they might sing and stuff but does this mean there are alot of unamed people there producing the actual music for them? how much of a say do they get?
 

Antari

Music Slave
Nov 4, 2009
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Music is what you make of it. Someone made it so its atleast good to them. As for me its preference. I listen to what I listen to. I know you'll do the same. No point in smashing a guitar on the floor.
 

thesilentman

What this
Jun 14, 2012
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Ranorak said:
Because I respect their skills as musicians, not just as artists.

To me, it's infinity harder to play a good guitar solo, live, with 3 or 4 other band members while staying on key, and all on the same 1,2,3 and 4's.

Opposed to standing on stage lip-syncing while your back ground dancer put more time in their work then you ever did.

Or earning your fortune by having the auto-tune squeeze your voice is such a way that even GLaDos sounds human.

I have respect for bands like Iron Maiden, still touring, still making great albums for more then 20 years, while current pop-stars are not artists, they're products.
You sir, have won the thread. This is the reason that music elitism and people like me, you, and the OP exist. I love Dream Theater and Pink Floyd to all hell, but I understand why people would not like them. I, like you, respect their music and the meaning of what it means to be a musician.

There's also the fact that I'm a violinist myself and good music is engrained into my bones. I hate pop music as it isn't musically sound. I can't listen to auto-tuned music and repetitive beats as my mind needs more. I NEED music with proper tone shifts. I NEED music with different takes on the scales. I NEED something that's rhythmically diverse. I NEED music that makes me feel.

I need them, as I cannot have my music any other way.

Oh sure, some people are going to still prefer pop music. Would I look at them like I'm inferior? No! Will I convict them of not getting the balls to go out of their safety net? Yes. There is good music out there that many people are flat out ignoring, and it makes me unhappy in a sense. Unhappy that because of them choosing to support the pop artists, I may not be able to enjoy and get more of what I like.
 

DrunkOnEstus

In the name of Harman...
May 11, 2012
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It seems like music elitism comes from this belief that it can all be measured objectively. You even condemn four-chord arrangements and 4/4 time signatures in the OP as if it's objective proof that classic rock elitists don't actually know what they're talking about. There's also the idea that "the best stuff is the most hidden". A band or songwriter may seem more inherently valuable due to how difficult it was to discover them, and the daisy-chain of artists that led to their discovery. Put them in a bow called "I'm special, what I like defines me and I'll be damned if I'm like 50 million other people" and this stuff is bound to pop up. I can't even say that I've never done it or that I'm totally above it I guess.

It seems like you did it on accident in the OP while trying to avoid sounding elitist. Even a harmless statement like "some people don't want to work towards finding anything other than what's on the radio, and that's totally fine" carries a connotation that music isn't as important to them as it is to you, and that what is played on the radio is inherently less valuable and valid than "what's beyond".

I suppose one could find objective measures when talking about The Loudness War [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war] and things like that, but some people cannot tell the difference, or don't care. I'm not going to presume that their ears aren't as good or that they love music less than me because of that, though.
 

Eddie the head

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Feb 22, 2012
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Ranorak said:
I like this guy. Anyway I feel I need to point out that good vocals are about how you say something not what you're saying. The lyrics might be better but the vocals aren't. And that's what matters to me and a lot of other people. I mean if you find Katy Perry to have better vocals then say Ronnie James Dio fine I don't care, but I'm not going to take your advice in similar matters.
 

SushiJaguar

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Sep 12, 2010
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I prefer the term Audio-Adventurer. Personally I'm an elitist because I think I'm old enough and wise enough to know that if you really like something, settling for the mass-production isn't the way to go. You can't lock yourself in to one particular genre, because you're narrowing the experiences that are possible. Just because I look for music that isn't pop or dubstep doesn't mean I can't listen to it.

I just choose not to because it's fucking everywhere and I hear it enough in adverts and such that I've had enough of it, most days.