Musical Ignorance

SageRuffin

M-f-ing Jedi Master
Dec 19, 2009
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Also, some food for thought when it comes to rap: there's a fine divide between a "rapper" and a "lyricist".

Slug (of Atmosphere) is a lyricist, Eminem is a rapper.
Sage Francis is a lyricist, Paul Wall is a rapper.
Lupe Fiasco is a lyricist, 50 Cent is a rapper.
While this greatly depends on the member themselves, The Wu-Tang Clan are lyricists, a group such as Dem Franchise Boys on the other hand...

Everyone get what I'm saying?
 

gibboss28

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Feb 2, 2008
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SystemUpdate said:
Just as a heads up, I'm sure this doesn't apply to a majority of the Escapist users as us lot seem to be an intelligent and open-minded bunch. It's just an observation I've had on the way many people regard music.
No no, it applies here.
 
Apr 24, 2008
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Idealism...I guess it's ideal, but the alternatives save you a great deal of time.

My initial thought whenever I hear this stuff is: "You ain't gonna change the world, so change yourself". Allowing yourself to not care is really the only solution. Besides, do we really need to be so sensetive about everything?

Rap seems to be the prime example in all of these discussions, and I think there's good reason for it. I love rap when it's done right, but it really is limited. And the recurring themes...self promotion, sexism...money worship.

It's really fair enough for someone not to like it...except for Run DMC...they were actually interesting.
 

Hobonicus

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Feb 12, 2010
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Xhoyl said:
NotSoNimble said:
I will stop saying 'I don't like rap' when I hear rap I like.

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think I throw the words hate around that much.
Exactly. Not only that, but according to the definition of music from my music theory teacher, rap isn't music at all. In the sense that it's more like a poem with some kind of beat in the background. Except without the "poem" part, and just words as far as I've heard. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I have to say I agree with him. Someone wants to change my mind, show me a rap song that actually brings any sort of emotion to the table.
Every time I see someone deconstructing music objectively I die a little inside. Nobody cares about your "definition" of music. Rap is music, we need to get over that as a community so we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot with these silly biases. People on this site will moan about others not considering games art then turn around and say hip hop isn't music because they just talk to a beat. They're probably the same type of people who will hate JRPGs because "they aren't technically RPGs". Xhoyl, NotSoNimble, you may very well be a great guys, but this attitude is true ignorance. And I don't mean that as an insult, it is literally a very closed minded perspective.

A ton of people are under the impression that all rap is that shitty mainstream gangsta stuff. I'd suggest a few tracks but most people wouldn't give it a chance. Atmosphere, Sage Francis, Buddy Wakefield, Aesop Rock, Immortal Technique, try a few instead of waiting for something to be presented to you while you grumpily reject them on name alone. Even if you've listened to these artists extensively and still somehow don't like intelligently crafted lyrics put to beats, nobody can make such hugely ignorant generalizations and expect to be justified in any way. And "not having heard anything you like so far" is not justification at all. If you honestly have never heard a hip hop song with emotion, then you clearly don't have enough experience to be judging it.

Any open minded person who actually cares about music has at least one artist they like from every genre.
 

ChaoticKraus

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Guitarmasterx7 said:
That's all marketing. I'm saying that anyone can preform this song, or create something of similar complexity and composure.
Bullshit, you make someone like something by marketing it. Either they like it or they don't.

And the fact stands that millions people like this song. Sure the lyrics aren't genius, but the beat is irresistibly danceable and the song has a hook that everyone who has heard it remembers.

Xhoyl said:
Exactly. Not only that, but according to the definition of music from my music theory teacher, rap isn't music at all. In the sense that it's more like a poem with some kind of beat in the background. Except without the "poem" part, and just words as far as I've heard. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I have to say I agree with him. Someone wants to change my mind, show me a rap song that actually brings any sort of emotion to the table.
Well would you tell me why it isn't music then? Because as far as i know most of the rest of the worlds people consider it music. Granted, it's a rhytmic form of vocals and not a melodic one but that shouldn't disqualify it.

Oh and for your other questions.



 

klaynexas3

My shoes hurt
Dec 30, 2009
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enzilewulf said:
klaynexas3 said:
enzilewulf said:
rock piece of shit.


nahh, i'm just messing with you. i don't really like rap all that much, but hey, if you like it, good for you. rap at least has some thought form put into making it, so i'm fine with it. but pop, pop must be purged from this planet in a never ending fire
Now that was to blow off some steam. I was pissed for what ever reason and now I seem a little better but I can handle the fact that a lot of rap is shit but I hate it when no one sees that there is rock that is shit as well.
Nah, I understand, rap gets unneccessary shit. rock does have bad songs, like any other genre. For instance, circa survive *shudder* utter disgrace. Technically you were kind of trolling though haha oh well, you hate it that people give your music a bad rap(no pun intended I swear on my life) and you got sick of it. It's cool, people need to back off
 

Lionsfan

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Jan 29, 2010
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omega 616 said:
I know all about the "art is subjective" arument but a light going on and off is not art ... it's pompous, pretentious crap.
I definitely agree with you here. I mean if you read one of the description's for it, it's so fucking uptight
The content of this work is almost nothing: a gallery with bare walls in which the lights turn on and off in intervals of five seconds. This piece is based on a cycle of repetitive contradictions: each five-second phase is denied by the next. Creed controls the fundamental conditions ofvisibility within the gallery and redirects our attention to the walls that normally act as support and background for art objects. He treats the gallery as a medium to be molded, manipulating the existing lighting to create a new effect. Akin to John Cage's influential 1952 sound piece 4''33"?a four-minute, thirty-three-second composition of silence?Creed's witty, sensorial work subverts the normal spatial and temporal parameters of viewing experience.
.
That definitely goes to show how overthinking something isn't always good.

But the Art World accepts all, from Contemporary, to Surreal, to etc. etc. I just think that the musical world needs to do the same too.
I think things that don't have instruments like guitars in should be called something else, I am not going to force it or anthing but the way I see it is, I never took computer or nothing (in the case of choirs and barber shop) in music at school.

Don't get me wrong, I love the odd bit of barber shop, rap etc but I can't call it proper music. Maybe it's just me being an awkward dick but it's just what I think.
But I guess we'll just always have differing opinions. No big deal
 

Mrsrlg

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Jun 1, 2011
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Amen.

There is not a single genre that I can claim is bad.
Though I can't say all the songs in any one genre are good.

I will probably be intensely judged, and possible hated for this - but the only band I have never been able to stand listening to are System of a Down.
Though there probably are a lot more similar types of bands I dislike, haha.
 

Hatchet90

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Nov 15, 2009
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To all those saying they hate rap.

LISTEN TO THE GORILLAZ

I don't even like rap, but I absolutely love the Gorillaz. I'd classify their music as, Progressive Rap.

To me, this song is the absolute best cruising song.

 

blankedboy

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Feb 7, 2009
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Cowabungaa said:
I've seen this a lot in the metal fans I knew in life, they'd write of anything that isn't metal (or worse; some stupid 'sub-genre' of metal) because it isn't metal. Never really got that.
emeraldrafael said:
There's no bad Jazz unless its faked, just cause Jazz isnt supposed to be GOOD its supposed to have feeling /etitism. XD kidding.
Except for that new-fangled fusion crap. Damn kids meddlin' with my jazz. Now this is jazz:
/super-elitist.
It had to be done, admit it.
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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arrjay93 said:
Guitarmasterx7 said:
HardkorSB said:
Guitarmasterx7 said:
Have you ever considered that sometimes people dislike genres at least partially because of the lack of talent involved? I mean I'll admit there are probably exceptions (though I've never experienced any firsthand, so that's more obligatory than genuine) but at the end of the day, regardless of personal opinion, almost anyone can do this.
Really?
OK then, make a song that will make millions of people run to the dancefloor whenever it plays.
I dare you. After all, almost anyone can do that.
Or are you one of the few who can't?
That's all marketing. I'm saying that anyone can preform this song, or create something of similar complexity and composure.
Catchy music isn't as complicated as complicated music but it isn't much easier. Some of these talentless artists do better than the other talentless artists - why?
Well now were onto something else entirely, but catchyness doesn't imply anything about quality or talent. Soulja Boy was able to make a "catchy" song with the presets on the demo version of FL studio and the lyrics "Soulja boy up in this ho, watch me crank it watch me roll, watch me crank that soulja boy and superman dat ho" Which over the course of one single stanza reiterates the same thing twice and recycles the word "ho" to rhyme with itself. Catchyness comes with repetition, whether it be that the song plays on the radio constantly or that the song constantly repeats itself to create a similar sense of familiarity.

As for success, there are a number of factors involved in marketing a musician. The actual music definitely is a factor, but when it comes to mainstream success it isn't the only one, and probably not even the main one. Marketing to a demographic plays a huge part. For example, 50 cent has more appeal within his demographic than Eminem, who is similar and arguably better, because he's more "gangsta." There are less popular musicians have much catchier songs who aren't as big because they don't have the right agent or haven't been around as long. Rebbecca Black has made millions of dollars off marketing alone to the "I hate Justin Beiber" crowd, even though a majority of her consumers hate her music. Success doesn't necessarily imply anything of quality or talent either.

I could probably go off a lot more about this because I know a good amount about music and the entertainment industry, but basically the point I was trying to convey originally is that it takes a lot less to be like 50 Cent than it does to be like Dave Mustaine.
 

Accountfailed

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May 27, 2009
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Well I thought this was going to be something completely different. :p
Oh, well.
*leaves and politely shuts the door*
 

Darius Brogan

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Apr 28, 2010
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Xhoyl said:
You are now officially my favorite person ever.

I haven't heard anything about LoD for... Uhm... EVER, and it's good to know that it hasn't been completely lost to the new generation of instant gratification games.

Totally agree with you on the song. It's a beautiful piece.
 

Trololo Punk

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May 14, 2011
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I don't say shit about other people's music because (or at least try to)I'd like the same sort of judgement from other people when their on about the music I listen to... Of course, it doesn't always work that way.
 

pspman45

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Sep 1, 2010
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First impressions are very difficult to break.
For example, when I first heard Jazz, I thought it was total crap.
It turns out I was just listening to the bad stuff, as when my high school music workshop teacher did a whole marking period about it (his favorite music, naturally) I found that all of the music he showed us was pretty good. I actually like Jazz a lot now.

Unfortunately, the same can not be said for Rap. every time I hear that stuff I feel like I have to cover my ears. Its just.. not good. Perhaps I have been hearing the bad stuff again, but the genre hasn't sold itself to me... like at all...

Nor has the genre of.. whatever Kanye West is "singing" Its just talentless people making money off of the work done by a computer rather than their own voice. not only that, but it just sounds awful, like robots singing into an old record player
 

HardkorSB

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Mar 18, 2010
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Guitarmasterx7 said:
HardkorSB said:
Guitarmasterx7 said:
Have you ever considered that sometimes people dislike genres at least partially because of the lack of talent involved? I mean I'll admit there are probably exceptions (though I've never experienced any firsthand, so that's more obligatory than genuine) but at the end of the day, regardless of personal opinion, almost anyone can do this.
Really?
OK then, make a song that will make millions of people run to the dancefloor whenever it plays.
I dare you. After all, almost anyone can do that.
Or are you one of the few who can't?
That's all marketing. I'm saying that anyone can preform this song, or create something of similar complexity and composure.
So create it.
 

Marble Dragon

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Mar 11, 2009
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So, why does music exist anyway? Is it so we can all just sit around with smarmy looks on our faces, secure in the notion that our music is better than everyone else's music? Does a band get up on stage and perform a song so they can all be in some smug, superior state of being?

No. Fuck no. That is not the reason people make music, and when you imply that it is, you dishonor a lot of musicians. Of course, there are people out there who work only to make a profit, but that doesn't apply to most of the musicians people berate. Musicians are, first and foremost, entertainers. Who are you to say they entertain in the wrong way, so long as people enjoy it?

On topic: I agree with the OP, pretty much. It's stupid to listen to Nirvana and say all grunge sucks. It's stupid to listen to Kenny G and say all jazz sucks. It's stupid to listen to Justin Beiber and say all pop sucks. You're limiting only yourself. But why not? If you really, really don't want to listen to rap, you aren't hurting anything by saying it sucks. (Though it does push my buttons when people claim it's not music or that it's not emotional. But that's beside the point.)
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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I know especially when it comes to rock or older songs

your taste in music isnt supiror to mine

anyway right now Im listening to kanye wests album "my beautiful dark and twisted fantasy" he's no eminem buts he's not bad
NotSoNimble said:
Prophetic Heresy said:
NotSoNimble said:
I will stop saying 'I don't like rap' when I hear rap I like.

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think I throw the words hate around that much.
But if you don't like rap, it's not like you're looking for things to prove yourself wrong.


Here is an example for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=125j6-Gt67k
Yeah, I don't find anything to like with what you linked. The monotone ramblings of a mush mouth do nothing for me.
then obviously rap isnt your thing but it doesnt mean its "crap" I dont like the beatles but that doesnt mean they are crap