Mythic Kickstarter is a Scam

[80Maxwell08]

If you both want to hear some more about that Your World project the guy won the loterry and got $42 million off of it. He needs 1.1 million to make it. Also who in the hell are those 3 people who actually want to pay 10k for this?

Either sock puppet donation by himself or people trolling him (remember he needs 1.1 Million $ for ANY money to be transferred to him, do you think he'll manage that?)

Well he has 32 hours...he needs 1.07 million...I think he can make it.
captcha: watch me. How does it always know these things.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

It's stupid, honestly. Barlett's already rich, why doesn't he pony up the cash for his dreamboat dev studio?

"Uh, yeah, I won the lottery, but even so, I need people to give me cash!"

It isn't so much suspicious as it's plain and simply stupid. If you're that rich, just pull a Curt Schilling and finance your own damn studio.

 

[80Maxwell08]

It's stupid, honestly. Barlett's already rich, why doesn't he pony up the cash for his dreamboat dev studio?

"Uh, yeah, I won the lottery, but even so, I need people to give me cash!"

It isn't so much suspicious as it's plain and simply stupid. If you're that rich, just pull a Curt Schilling and finance your own damn studio.

Oh his excuse was much more interesting. He said that he wanted people to give their opinions on how it should be made so he made that to gather people. God I wish I bookmarked that link where he said that.

 

[disappointed]

The concern this throws up to me is whether there is a vetting process at Kickstarter for all projects before being green lit.

Yeah, they've got too big to get by without some decent oversight. There's a ton of unrealistic projects on Kickstarter that are never going to get funded/made and it would be a lot better for everyone if they were culled. Personally, I don't think there should be any MMO projects allowed. They're just too expensive and fragile to be funded this way.

Vetting is the investors responsibility, it should not be Kickstarters responsibility to go around to every artist and game dev and see if their project is realistic, Kickstarter is way to big for that to be realistic. I personally only support projects run by established and trusted devs, like the Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns projects but if a person wants to fund an unknown dev because they have a good demo or they just really like the devs idea that is up to them.

That's a nice idea but right now, at least half the Kickstarter stories I read are about fraudulent and unrealistic projects. That's a great way to scare off investors across the board. It's become a dumping ground for what are mostly terrible ideas. And because only those who invest can comment on projects, there's absolutely no moderation of projects on the site itself. Instead, we have these third-party investigations by folks like Reddit.

Clearly Kickstarter can't guarantee projects but they can impose and enforce stronger rules, ideally with some penalty for outright liars. They should also provide some mechanism for people to raise questions over suspicious projects. Every site that acts as a marketplace for untrusted third parties needs to implement some trust system. An eBay style seller rating system isn't going to work for a site like this but when the rest of the Internet is policing your site for you, that's a sign that you need to take some action yourself.

Ever since I seen Kickstart I awaited a story like this. I cant help but also wonder what would happen to donated money if the developers suddenly dropped the project a month or two after achieving their goals, what legal action could be taken?

Kickstarter's T&C state that they do not in any way guarantee any of the projects, so you can't take any action via them. And I'm fairly certain that in most countries there would be no action you could take directly with the devs unless your pledge had been in direct exchange for a copy of the finished game, in which case you could probably claim your money back. But even that I'm not certain of.

In the USA you could sue the devs for fraud if you could prove that anything they said to get funding was intentionally deceptive or if the devs did not make a good faith effort to complete the project.

Yes but you'd need to get all or most of the other investors in on a class-action for it to be worthwhile. Even then, it's unlikely to be worth the trouble for five figure projects. And good luck proving that they never made any real effort to make good on their project.

Don't get me wrong. People investing through Kickstarter are in a stronger position than if they'd invested directly. But because each investment is so small, the risk of legal action against an outright fraudster is proportionally smaller. That's what makes it such a tempting target and that's why it needs to be better defended.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

It's stupid, honestly. Barlett's already rich, why doesn't he pony up the cash for his dreamboat dev studio?

"Uh, yeah, I won the lottery, but even so, I need people to give me cash!"

It isn't so much suspicious as it's plain and simply stupid. If you're that rich, just pull a Curt Schilling and finance your own damn studio.

Oh his excuse was much more interesting. He said that he wanted people to give their opinions on how it should be made so he made that to gather people. God I wish I bookmarked that link where he said that.

Fair enough, but that makes me want to talk to the guy and ask why he defaulted to Kickstarter in the first place. Considering his scenario, he could've started a public message board, which he then could've spent some time advertising on places like Mod DB - the same way the Bloodlines Revival team operated.

Trying to gather a team is all well and good; it's the "financial backing" part that makes no damn sense, considering his apparent wealth.

 

[BrionJames]

It's good that they learn these lessons early on and come up with ways to identify bullshit ventures in the future. Hopefully...

 

[80Maxwell08]

It's stupid, honestly. Barlett's already rich, why doesn't he pony up the cash for his dreamboat dev studio?

"Uh, yeah, I won the lottery, but even so, I need people to give me cash!"

It isn't so much suspicious as it's plain and simply stupid. If you're that rich, just pull a Curt Schilling and finance your own damn studio.

Oh his excuse was much more interesting. He said that he wanted people to give their opinions on how it should be made so he made that to gather people. God I wish I bookmarked that link where he said that.

Fair enough, but that makes me want to talk to the guy and ask why he defaulted to Kickstarter in the first place. Considering his scenario, he could've started a public message board, which he then could've spent some time advertising on places like Mod DB - the same way the Bloodlines Revival team operated.

Trying to gather a team is all well and good; it's the "financial backing" part that makes no damn sense, considering his apparent wealth.

Hence why me and Dexter are pointing out it's a scam. If only because the guy asking for money already has money and has no experience making anything let alone an MMO. If he's serious I feel sorry for him wasting $40 million.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Hence why me and Dexter are pointing out it's a scam. If only because the guy asking for money already has money and has no experience making anything let alone an MMO. If he's serious I feel sorry for him wasting $40 million.

Yeah, he does seem less, well, dodgy than some of the other Kickstarter scams mentioned earlier, but only because he somehow rubs me as being this big, tubby, honest dude who has a heart of gold but no clue whatsoever as to how games are developed or design studios constituted.

Bartlett just feels less like a fraudster waiting to happen to me and more like a big, happy-go-lucky and slightly derpy version of the Comic Book Guy.

Watching his videos, I wanna pat him on the shoulder and say something in a awkward faux appreciative tone, like "Don't give up on that pizza place of yours, though, alright?"

Basically Polite Code for "Yeah, this is complete and utter shit. Get your head out of the clouds, you pathetic lump of idealistic man-flesh".

 

[80Maxwell08]

Hence why me and Dexter are pointing out it's a scam. If only because the guy asking for money already has money and has no experience making anything let alone an MMO. If he's serious I feel sorry for him wasting $40 million.

Yeah, he does seem less, well, dodgy than some of the other Kickstarter scams mentioned earlier, but only because he somehow rubs me as being this big, tubby, honest dude who has a heart of gold but no clue whatsoever as to how games are developed or design studios constituted.

Bartlett just feels less like a fraudster waiting to happen to me and more like a big, happy-go-lucky and slightly derpy version of the Comic Book Guy.

Watching his videos, I wanna pat him on the shoulder and say something in a awkward faux appreciative tone, like "Don't give up on that pizza place of yours, though, alright?"

Basically Polite Code for "Yeah, this is complete and utter shit. Get your head out of the clouds, you pathetic lump of idealistic man-flesh".

I do have to agree but it still means if he actually was getting anywhere near the amount needed for his kickstarter me and some others would probably go full soap box and start yelling it as loud as possible so people don't lose their money. Especially on donating to a money pit in the first place.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I do have to agree but it still means if he actually was getting anywhere near the amount needed for his kickstarter me and some others would probably go full soap box and start yelling it as loud as possible so people don't lose their money. Especially on donating to a money pit in the first place.

Oh, of course. I'm all in favor of not wasting cash; it's just hard to whip up anything resembling actual aggressive suspicion in front of the that one guy. Mythic's or the spokesperson for Serellan, on the other hand? Oh, I'd totally try to soapbox it up in the comments for their respective projects.

These last two cases don't have the merit of being a mix of naiveté and transparent enthusiasm; they're clearly cash-grab attempts. Bartlett's?

"Your World" feels like an unfocused, undirected, unplanned and extremely hazy ball of pure, concentrated *willingness* to do something resembling a project. The problem is the transparent and rather damning lack of ability, and the fact that he seems less concerned with fixing that than going "Hey, here are my ideas, here's money I've raised, now make that shit for me!"

Assuming of course that his castles in Spain amount to anything. I'm fully expecting Bartlett's Kickstarter to tank. Projects running on hopes, dreams, sunshine and rainbows are really good for my mood, but they don't inspire me to drop some cashola.

 

[80Maxwell08]

I do have to agree but it still means if he actually was getting anywhere near the amount needed for his kickstarter me and some others would probably go full soap box and start yelling it as loud as possible so people don't lose their money. Especially on donating to a money pit in the first place.

Oh, of course. I'm all in favor of not wasting cash; it's just hard to whip up anything resembling actual aggressive suspicion in front of the that one guy. Mythic's or the spokesperson for Serellan, on the other hand? Oh, I'd totally try to soapbox it up in the comments for their respective projects.

These last two cases don't have the merit of being a mix of naiveté and transparent enthusiasm; they're clearly cash-grab attempts. Bartlett's?

"Your World" feels like an unfocused, undirected, unplanned and extremely hazy ball of pure, concentrated *willingness* to do something resembling a project. The problem is the transparent and rather damning lack of ability, and the fact that he seems less concerned with fixing that than going "Hey, here are my ideas, here's money I've raised, now make that shit for me!"

Assuming of course that his castles in Spain amount to anything. I'm fully expecting Bartlett's Kickstarter to tank. Projects running on hopes, dreams, sunshine and rainbows are really good for my mood, but they don't inspire me to drop some cashola.

Well of course the kickstarter was going to tank. He was asking for 1.1 million with nothing to show and no record of anything. It does seem like he really wants to do this and he will one way or another but while I don't think he's trying to scam people that's just what's going to happen with him trying to make an MMO. Also someone withdrew 10k from it. Don't know why sicne they weren't going to be charged anyway.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Yeah. It does feel like he just consulted some sort of statistical average about game-making and tried to apply a decent amount to fund his project. Even so, it's pretty sophomoric. 1.1 million dollars is about one fifth or one sixth of today's cost for your average AAA game, assuming MMOs qualify as AAA games. MMOs are pretty much the last thing you'd start a Kickstarter page for; these things need actual backing from a publisher; not some peanuts scrounged together by helpful fans of your idea.

Then there's the fact that he doesn't understand why MMOs run in instances. People want a cohesive experience and decent connectivity, they wouldn't want to be dragooned into connecting to a far-off "Lava Server" because a quest acquired on their local "Water Server" required them to switch realms. Instances are there to ensure that no matter where you are, you can play the same game as anyone else and not suffer from lag too badly.

The way he sees things, instances are just moronic hardware limitations holding back unbridled possibilities. Someone's going to have to explain a few basic things about online games to him, at some point in time.

Just about the only really exotic things MMOs can manage, nowadays, is connecting you to different phases of a given instance, depending on where you are in a quest's narrative, and handling the passage of time realistically.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Yeah. It does feel like he just consulted some sort of statistical average about game-making and tried to apply a decent amount to fund his project. Even so, it's pretty sophomoric. 1.1 million dollars is about one fifth or one sixth of today's cost for your average AAA game, assuming MMOs qualify as AAA games. MMOs are pretty much the last thing you'd start a Kickstarter page for; these things need actual backing from a publisher; not some peanuts scrounged together by helpful fans of your idea.

Then there's the fact that he doesn't understand why MMOs run in instances. People want a cohesive experience and decent connectivity, they wouldn't want to be dragooned into connecting to a far-off "Lava Server" because a quest acquired on their local "Water Server" required them to switch realms. Instances are there to ensure that no matter where you are, you can play the same game as anyone else and not suffer from lag too badly.

The way he sees things, instances are just moronic hardware limitations holding back unbridled possibilities. Someone's going to have to explain a few basic things about online games to him, at some point in time.

Just about the only really exotic things MMOs can manage, nowadays, is connecting you to different phases of a given instance, depending on where you are in a quest's narrative, and handling the passage of time realistically.

Honestly I haven't had that much experience with the technical side of MMOs to say anything about that. Also now that the kickstarter ended he posted his last update. Wow. God he's arrogant. Not to mention his last sentence.

"Just FYI this is my last message here. I won't be looking at kickstater ever again. Should we try crowdfunding again we will use another services."

Yeah that was the main problem. Also here's the link to it since someone posted a comment there that said it way better than I could have.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/120873716/your-world/posts/219895

 

[IamLEAM1983]

That's surprising, to say the least. You'd figure he'd have enough class to end his project's Kickstarter run with a little more decorum. He's had supporters, after all.

Then, of course, you see how a certain "Angel Snow" has essentially been kissing Ellwood's feet for the last couple months, swallowing up everything he says as if he were able to reinvent the MMO genre - and you feel like facepalming a whole damn lot.

This is bound to be one of Kickstarter's bigger failings. Even in the case of projects that ARE funded and that DO go somewhere, there's always the off chance that backing some project or another is going to cause some artsy and self-absorbed pseudo indie developer to skyrocket into prominence. Phil Fish on a Red Bull bender or John Blow without the least bit of tact.

I really hope that last sentence of Bartlett's isn't indicative of an underlying streak of arrogance. If that's the case... It's always sad when I see anyone shoot themselves in the foot. If he keeps that up, he'll alienate outside sources who could actually be of help and eventually lock himself out of the industry altogether.

 

[80Maxwell08]

That's surprising, to say the least. You'd figure he'd have enough class to end his project's Kickstarter run with a little more decorum. He's had supporters, after all.

Then, of course, you see how a certain "Angel Snow" has essentially been kissing Ellwood's feet for the last couple months, swallowing up everything he says as if he were able to reinvent the MMO genre - and you feel like facepalming a whole damn lot.

This is bound to be one of Kickstarter's bigger failings. Even in the case of projects that ARE funded and that DO go somewhere, there's always the off chance that backing some project or another is going to cause some artsy and self-absorbed pseudo indie developer to skyrocket into prominence. Phil Fish on a Red Bull bender or John Blow without the least bit of tact.

I really hope that last sentence of Bartlett's isn't indicative of an underlying streak of arrogance. If that's the case... It's always sad when I see anyone shoot themselves in the foot. If he keeps that up, he'll alienate outside sources who could actually be of help and eventually lock himself out of the industry altogether.

Oh god I just started checking the other posts and have seen Angel Snow around. What the heck is "Bunky" supposed to mean? Also it's around update 25 that tons of people have started coming out and said they are immediately removing their pledge. His response to them is thanking them for generating more hits to his webpage. Not to mention someone in the comments linked him to 3 different web links of how others failed making an MMO. Also he's telling everyone trying to inform people about this that this project will create jobs and trying to kill it will kill jobs. Good lord. This was bad enough originally when it was just some guy who wanted to make an MMO but didn't have any idea how. People raised very valid points and he just ignored them or called them trolls. Well before I pitied him in that he was going to be wasting $40 million on an MMO practically ringing it's death knell before it's even born but now I don't know. I guess I just hope he realizes his mistakes soon.

Huh oh yes your post sorry I was distracted. I'm not sure if I would even call this Kickstarter's failure. Honestly I would call it a success in that people were smart enough not to do this but that's just my point of view. Also I hope we don't get another Phil Fish or John Blow out of this. I know we will at some point I just hope it won't happen soon or that people will realize it and stop caring about them.

I think I might make a post on the forums soon about spreading awareness about scams on Kickstarter at some point so people can share their info there on scams.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Maybe, but it does look to me like the netizens are aware of the potentially dirty business of Kickstarting a dodgy or sub-par project. I mean, it's been crystallized in a Penny-Arcade strip by now, and people seem sufficiently alert to spot pie-in-the-sky projects or blatant cash grabs. Not that it'll be perfect, of course. I still get gag reflexes when I think of the lucky swine who got twenty thou for an RPG Maker project...

Meh. We've seen stuff like this ever since Microsoft opened up XBLA to indie developers. For every seriously decent project, you've got twenty "Use your Sexbawks Cuntroller like a dildo, LOL." applications.

As long as stringent control measures aren't applied, and unless Kickstarter bans hazy projects like "Your World" the very moment they're created, we'll keep seeing this happen. One money-grubber tends to attract loads more.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Agreed though I don't know how. If I had to guess I would say you have to have something to show you will be doing it and you can't use freeware to make it. Also I have no idea if this is possible but I would try to put in some legal contract saying they have to finish it. God I can't believe that thing got it's money. Can Kickstarter cancel anything themselves?

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I'd try and set up a review committee. If it works for universities checking which projects deserve grants and which ones deserve a polite letter of refusal; then it could work for a funding platform.

If you submit a Kickstarter, the page isn't automatically generated. The info is initially passed on to the committee for the purposes of reviewing. If it makes sense, the project is approved and the Kickstarter page officially launches. If it doesn't, the user's email address is used to send a prefab rejection letter; with maybe a few editable fields to specify why and how said project was rejected.

For the sake of appearances, you end with a friendly reminder that you'd be open to a more appropriately presented project, and that the offender is free to apply to Kickstarter again if he's willing to actually work on the project's submission, this time around.

The more a single user tries to generate Kickstarter pages that get rejected, the more some sort of reputation system is impacted. At zero reputation (or after X number of rejections), the user is outright banned from Kickstarter.

That system would be fair to those who actually have something to present and could effectively weed out the vultures.

 

[80Maxwell08]

That's a much better idea. Especially considering how much money Kickstarter is making now that the whole crazy is going on.