Natural 20: Alara's Arrival

[fractal_butterfly]

What's with the hate for D&D 4th Edition...?

As I said to the other guy, I am not a D&D player, but from what I remember, D&D 4th Edition considered to be "dumbed down" compared to 3.5.

Yes, that's what everyone is repeating, who has no clue about Role Playing Systems ;-)

and people who've been playing since first edition.

...and I know people, that played since first edition, and say that 4e is the most well designed D&D of them all. Most people, who I asked, why they think that 4e is dumbed down, never played it in the first place and only heard from others, that it's bad OR are a minority, that just want their overpowered Wizards and Clerics back.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I watched your first two episodes when it was first announced you were coming to the Escapist, and what I've seen so far has been hilarious. Lots of shows on D&D tend to struggle finding a balance of humor for people who've played and people who haven't. I can't speak for people who haven't, but as someone who has played their fair share, I'm definitely not disappointed

Is episode 2 coming to the Escapist on the regular 2 week schedule, or is episode 3 coming then?

...and I know people, that played since first edition, and say that 4e is the most well designed D&D of them all. Most people, who I asked, why they think that 4e is dumbed down, never played it in the first place and only heard from others, that it's bad OR are a minority, that just want their overpowered Wizards and Clerics back.

I've played 3.5 extensively, and browsed through some of the rules of 4e. I don't have that much experience with the system, but I have some friends who have. From my reading of the rules and what I've heard from friends, 4e is a lot more game-y than 3.5, whereas 3.5 tries to be more of a simulation. However, as a result of this 4e gives the players more interesting combat options, and combat that tends to be more diverse for non-mage characters (Which was a pretty big flaw in 3.5, melee character's combat can be quite bland).

4e really tried to balance all the characters, which had the consequence of making all the characters play pretty much the same but with different skins and fluff for their abilities. You lost a lot of the somewhat vague utility spells in 3.5, which were replaced with spells solely intended for 4-10 round encounters. Considering that most of my best experiences in D&D were with solving problems in unique and creative means, this was probably one of the losses that bothered me the most.

 

[Natural_20]

I watched your first two episodes when it was first announced you were coming to the Escapist, and what I've seen so far has been hilarious. Lots of shows on D&D tend to struggle finding a balance of humor for people who've played and people who haven't. I can't speak for people who haven't, but as someone who has played their fair share, I'm definitely not disappointed

Is episode 2 coming to the Escapist on the regular 2 week schedule, or is episode 3 coming then?

...and I know people, that played since first edition, and say that 4e is the most well designed D&D of them all. Most people, who I asked, why they think that 4e is dumbed down, never played it in the first place and only heard from others, that it's bad OR are a minority, that just want their overpowered Wizards and Clerics back.

I've played 3.5 extensively, and browsed through some of the rules of 4e. I don't have that much experience with the system, but I have some friends who have. From my reading of the rules and what I've heard from friends, 4e is a lot more game-y than 3.5, whereas 3.5 tries to be more of a simulation. However, as a result of this 4e gives the players more interesting combat options, and combat that tends to be more diverse for non-mage characters (Which was a pretty big flaw in 3.5, melee character's combat can be quite bland).

4e really tried to balance all the characters, which had the consequence of making all the characters play pretty much the same but with different skins and fluff for their abilities. You lost a lot of the somewhat vague utility spells in 3.5, which were replaced with spells solely intended for 4-10 round encounters. Considering that most of my best experiences in D&D were with solving problems in unique and creative means, this was probably one of the losses that bothered me the most.

We're glad you like the show! Episode 2 will be coming to the Escapist on January 21st. The first 'new' episode (for those who have followed NAT20 prior to the January 7th / Escapist release) will be February 4th. You should definitely re-watch episode 2. We made a SINGLE change to the episode. Can you spot it?

 

[fractal_butterfly]

We're glad you like the show! Episode 2 will be coming to the Escapist on January 21st. The first 'new' episode (for those who have followed NAT20 prior to the January 7th / Escapist release) will be February 4th. You should definitely re-watch episode 2. We made a SINGLE change to the episode. Can you spot it?

I really like the show and I hope to see more of it!
Sorry for starting the Edition Debate, I always do that and I should stop that
But I just love the 4th Edition too much, and it is getting so much hate

I've played 3.5 extensively, and browsed through some of the rules of 4e. I don't have that much experience with the system, but I have some friends who have. From my reading of the rules and what I've heard from friends, 4e is a lot more game-y than 3.5, whereas 3.5 tries to be more of a simulation. However, as a result of this 4e gives the players more interesting combat options, and combat that tends to be more diverse for non-mage characters (Which was a pretty big flaw in 3.5, melee character's combat can be quite bland).

4e really tried to balance all the characters, which had the consequence of making all the characters play pretty much the same but with different skins and fluff for their abilities. You lost a lot of the somewhat vague utility spells in 3.5, which were replaced with spells solely intended for 4-10 round encounters. Considering that most of my best experiences in D&D were with solving problems in unique and creative means, this was probably one of the losses that bothered me the most.

I agree that D&D4 makes things more gamey, but at the same time it improves the system foundations to keep the simulation intact and at the same time make the rules more understandable and less arbitrary. Combat rounds are now much faster, although you have a plethora of more options.
While all of the characters have a similar power level, they still have their own fields of excellence. A wizard plays completely different and has completely different roles inside and outside of combat than a Rogue, Fighter or Druid. All of the utility spells still exist, they were just moved to the new Rituals.
They improved so much stuff in 4th, which was all thrown out in 5th Edition, which is now more like an expanded 3.5...

 

[WouldYouKindly]

My mission, if I was DM, would be to kill the Drizzt clone.

I'm not against basing characters on existing characters/archetypes, but choose slightly more obscure existing things.

 

[Natural_20]

We're glad you like the show! Episode 2 will be coming to the Escapist on January 21st. The first 'new' episode (for those who have followed NAT20 prior to the January 7th / Escapist release) will be February 4th. You should definitely re-watch episode 2. We made a SINGLE change to the episode. Can you spot it?

I really like the show and I hope to see more of it!
Sorry for starting the Edition Debate, I always do that and I should stop that
But I just love the 4th Edition too much, and it is getting so much hate

I've played 3.5 extensively, and browsed through some of the rules of 4e. I don't have that much experience with the system, but I have some friends who have. From my reading of the rules and what I've heard from friends, 4e is a lot more game-y than 3.5, whereas 3.5 tries to be more of a simulation. However, as a result of this 4e gives the players more interesting combat options, and combat that tends to be more diverse for non-mage characters (Which was a pretty big flaw in 3.5, melee character's combat can be quite bland).

4e really tried to balance all the characters, which had the consequence of making all the characters play pretty much the same but with different skins and fluff for their abilities. You lost a lot of the somewhat vague utility spells in 3.5, which were replaced with spells solely intended for 4-10 round encounters. Considering that most of my best experiences in D&D were with solving problems in unique and creative means, this was probably one of the losses that bothered me the most.

I agree that D&D4 makes things more gamey, but at the same time it improves the system foundations to keep the simulation intact and at the same time make the rules more understandable and less arbitrary. Combat rounds are now much faster, although you have a plethora of more options.
While all of the characters have a similar power level, they still have their own fields of excellence. A wizard plays completely different and has completely different roles inside and outside of combat than a Rogue, Fighter or Druid. All of the utility spells still exist, they were just moved to the new Rituals.
They improved so much stuff in 4th, which was all thrown out in 5th Edition, which is now more like an expanded 3.5...

We're glad you like the show and don't mind the debate. Each player has their favorite edition. Hope you keep watching!

 

[Owlslayer]

That was pretty lovely, made me laugh and all. Especially the "send out the halfling" part, really caught me off-guard, made me laugh hard. Seems like a pretty nice show, I'll be looking forward to future episodes!