Natural Selection 2 Adds Female Marines

[PirateRose]

I don't get the problem with breastplates. This might come as a shock but women have breasts. I don't get why feminists hate their own anatomy.

It's not a hate for anatomy, it's a hate for the inaccuracy, bad design, and unnecessary addition to the armor. It's inaccurate because no body who actually makes armor for real women, no body who makes bullet proof jackets, or any form of protection for police and military women, makes them that way.

It's a bad design because it directs blows to the sternum which can be painful and deadly.

Boobs are fat sacks, they can be pressed down and flatten, this is what workout bras do to keep women from hurting their breasts. Boobs are not made of muscle and bone, they are not solid, hard masses, they are sacks of fat. There is no reason to put the shape of boobs into armor, it's a waste of space and metal and would probably be painful and bruising with the breasts bouncing around in there, unless the woman is wearing a proper bra which will in turn make the boob armor completely pointless because her boobs will be flattened out. Also don't forget, women have various sizes of boobs, it would be a waste of time to custom make boob armor for everyone woman unless she had a large enough rack that it would be required. The average woman has a C-cup which can be comfortably worn flat.

I personally prefer using the boob armor on Shepard in Mass Effect for style reasons. The armor has been credited by armor makers for at least being lifted enough to minimize harm to the chest, but I admit the accurate breast shape can be a bit much. Otherwise on the other hand of things, there are numerous other options besides boob armor in Mass Effect that should the player want to go that route, they can.

edit:

Well you also have to remember that historically most of them were pretending to be men.

Not completely accurate. For example, increasing historical studies show about a good half of the viking who terrorized villages across Europe were actually women. This was discovered because someone actually looked at the bones of warriors who died on the battle field, miles away from home, and discovered they were women. There is no way nearly half of the viking warriors were women and the men didn't notice, especially since these women warriors are shown to have some healed injuries which would have required a doctor.

Thus the problematic issue with saying women warriors don't exist throughout history. Because yeah, no body made boob armor to identify female, it is a dumb design for the battlefield.

 

[ShirowShirow]

-Sigh- Okay, I'm gonna say this right now. This armor is very commendable. I congratulate the team for having a female soldier that looks like a female solider.

The thing is this shouldn't BE commendable. This should be the BARE MINIMUM everyone should adhere to right out the gate!

Oh well. I'll take what I can get.

 

[RJ 17]

It's called "Breastplate" for a reason, damnit!!!

Just kidding, I read the article in the headline and I have to admit that I had never considered what it brings up and it actually makes a lot of sense.

It's always bugged me. In Musical Theater at school, we always had disproportionately high amounts of girls to boys, and so we had girls in male roles. So, when we needed one well-endowed girl to wear a "suit of armor" for a gag, she got out the duct tape and magically made herself fit. To this day, I ask "Why don't soldiers do that in games, FFS?"

Now I'm not saying I'm a history major, but my understanding is that female warriors actually would do something like that so they wouldn't be...ahem...bouncing around so much. I believe they'd use bandages/wrappings to pin down their breasts, basically making medieval sports bras.

That's reality, though, as far as sci-fi games are concerned, as the rest of my post said: I really have never noticed literal breastplates on space marine armor with the exception of FemShep. Now I haven't played every sci-fi space marine game out there that allows for female space marines in full armor, but I honestly can't think of another example other than FemShep, while in all the games I CAN think of, the female space marines are all essentially wearing the same bulky armor that doesn't reveal their physiques.

Fantasy games on the other hand...well, that's a different can of worms all together.

Well you also have to remember that historically most of them were pretending to be men. Honestly though if "actual" breast plates were form fitting and be made as sturdy as a male chest plate, I wouldn't really be bothered. Certainly better would be better then the medieval female fantasy armor that is more revealing then an NSA wiretap.

As for Samus, even though her armor didn't have boobs it certainly stood out far enough to accommodate them. While her armor probably had cups inside them, having all that extra room would just cause their boobs to bounce around even more. I can't imagine strapping those things down for long periods would be very comfortable, especially if their lives didn't depend on keeping their gender a secret.

Annnnnnd now you've forced me to:

But back to the topic at hand, even though Samus' armor does protrude outwards on top, you still can't tell that it does so in order to be a "breast compartment", it just looks like part of the armor's design. The problems with the form-fitting armor (which were actually spelled out quite understandably in the article that's linked in the headline) is that you'd be effectively putting a big metal wedge placed right over your sternum. A strong enough impact to the front would drive that wedge into and likely break your sternum, which isn't very fun.

You're right about the boob-tying being done to hide gender, seeing as how women knights and such weren't exactly supposed to be a thing, and I do agree: it couldn't be very comfortable for those brave, hard-headed women who wanted to fight. Either way, though, they wouldn't have breasts on their breastplates.

 

[RJ 17]

Well you also have to remember that historically most of them were pretending to be men.

Not completely accurate. For example, increasing historical studies show about a good half of the viking who terrorized villages across Europe were actually women. This was discovered because someone actually looked at the bones of warriors who died on the battle field, miles away from home, and discovered they were women. There is no way nearly half of the viking warriors were women and the men didn't notice, especially since these women warriors are shown to have some healed injuries which would have required a doctor.

Thus the problematic issue with saying women warriors don't exist throughout history. Because yeah, no body made boob armor to identify female, it is a dumb design for the battlefield.

Keep in mind that's just one culture. Most others weren't as apparently progressive as the Vikings, taking a much more patriarchal approach to women.

DVS' statement of most were pretending to be men is indeed true. Those that were openly female warriors still likely strapped their breasts down for the reasons I mentioned: it was like a medieval sports bra to keep their breasts from getting in the way during combat.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's always bugged me. In Musical Theater at school, we always had disproportionately high amounts of girls to boys, and so we had girls in male roles. So, when we needed one well-endowed girl to wear a "suit of armor" for a gag, she got out the duct tape and magically made herself fit. To this day, I ask "Why don't soldiers do that in games, FFS?"

Because they're games, and they frequently pander to male libido. I'm not even condemning that, just saying it is what it is.

In the real world, there is some truth to body armour issues, but they've had better fitting armour for decades now, and it doesn't require boob plates to work. Military/Law Enforcement gear was created predominantly with men in mind and they were slow to adapt because for a long time, it wasn't necessary. But they're not fantasy, so that's why the disconnect.

I don't get the problem with breastplates. This might come as a shock but women have breasts. I don't get why feminists hate their own anatomy.

Taking the piss?

Keep in mind that's just one culture. Most others weren't as apparently progressive as the Vikings, taking a much more patriarchal approach to women.

While true that they're not on the same level, pretending women openly serving wasn't fairly common is false. It's like myth of medieval armour being heavy, cumbersome, and unwieldy.

Regardless, there's a good reason that this type of armour doesn't exist outside of fantasy: it's a bit shit. Even the modern body armour which has been adapted specifically with women in mind doesn't see massive visible changes. There will be differences between armour designed with men and women in mind, but it won't look like people seem to be defending.

And women would situationally bind their breasts, yes. Not necessary all the time, however.

 

[ShiningAmber]

I don't get the problem with breastplates. This might come as a shock but women have breasts. I don't get why feminists hate their own anatomy.

Do you know what sports bras do? They allow women to be able to run and lift and do whatever motions they need without hindrance (and massive pain) of their breasts moving.

It may come as a shock, but breasts are basically just fat. If you had a suit that left all that open room for breasts to move around, do you know how painful that would be for a woman in motion? These suits make more sense.

What if game designers started making massive pouches in between video game mens' legs for their penises and testicles? That wouldn't make sense. But, men must hate their anatomy sense they don't do that.

 

[lacktheknack]

I don't get the problem with breastplates. This might come as a shock but women have breasts. I don't get why feminists hate their own anatomy.

It's like putting a woman in a temperature-regulating wetsuit with big slices in the front, allowing it to stretch "because women have breasts", and tossing her in icy water.

And then being shocked when she dies of hypothermia.

Accentuated breastplates are awful. Armor is meant to deflect, not take a direct hit. On normal armor, any slanted hit will glance off and to the side, because it's always convex no matter where you hit it. With accentuated breastplates, you have a concave spot between them. Thus, melee strikes will be guided IN, directly towards the wearer's heart and lungs, ie. "two things you don't want hit with a melee weapon". Or, if it glances too far off one breast, you might ***** directly into the other, or worse, have a mid-battlefield mastectomy.

Conclusion: If you approve of breast-accentuating armor, it's because you hate boobs. Or women. Or both.

EDIT: Eh, just in case. THE ABOVE LINE IS NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. /edit

That's why people are happy that we finally have armor that WON'T kill the women wearing it in a melee fight.

 

[Holythirteen]

Should be the standard. But it's still news because of raisins. Stupid raisins.

But its an NS2 news post so I'm just tickled about it.

Good Job Unknown Worlds.

 

[major_chaos]

Aw isn't this just the most adorable meaningless PR stunt symbolic gesture.
Capcha: Window dressing. Exactly capcha, you know what I mean.

 

[Lightknight]

Um, ok. Hopefully there was a demand for this or even more hopefully it will generate some positive press and some more money for the fine people that made such a great game.

 

[madster11]

That breast plate looks kinda uncomfortable, and if we're talking actual applications, it seems like having an exposed neck and stomach would be a poor decision. Chest armor is all good and well, but you'll die just as much from a decent neck or stomach/kidney wound.

Overall, i'm 'meh' as shit. If you wanna talk about FPS' that treat women as equal with equal armor, why not stop sucking this PR stunts dick so much and have a look at the Halo series?
Female MJOLNIR armor is damn near identical to male armor.

Accentuated breastplates are awful. Armor is meant to deflect, not take a direct hit. On normal armor, any slanted hit will glance off and to the side, because it's always convex no matter where you hit it.

I...
What?
Are you confusing human armor with tank armor?

When was the last time you heard of a modern soldier worrying about 'melee' attacks?

Armor is designed to take the force of the bullet and spread it out. That's why we have big-ass ceramic plates for modern body-armor. They don't deflect the bullet at all, they take the force of it and dissipate it over a larger area. This is why after a few hits with a high calibre weapon, those ceramic plates get so goddamn hot that they start to burn their wearer.

The reason for the tradition 'breast plate' look in modern art styles is because steel, ceramic and even titanium is damn heavy. Having a flat chest piece large enough to be comfortable for women would be damn heavy and have unnecessary amounts of protection over the sternum. So designs tend to look like big steel bras because that's what would be most effective in terms of protection and comfort, without being too heavy.
The alternative is having something like we do now, which is a big plate which goes over both breasts and down to the stomach, but that's big and bulky and simply doesn't work for any woman with D-cups or larger.

 

[Steven Bogos]

snip

In defense of dudebros, they are pretty dude-like, and brotherly.

OT: Both of the links are from the original Unknown Worlds article, the emphasis on her "functional" armor is theirs, not mine (though I take full responsibility for, and stand by, "dudebro"). Honestly, i'm just pumped that the team is putting out so much post-release content, for free! Every other company would have charged $5 for a new character model.

 

[Lieju]

It's certainly not time to retire the boob plate, at least from media, because that would mean one less design choice for new characters. This isn't about practicality, realism or sexism, it's design that's supposed to engage you in the game, whether there's a boob plate, crotch cup, dragonhead shoulders, bone helmets or not.

Assuming that it's offensive towards women is just another hopeless attempt at stroking your own sense of morality, rather than actually care for, or respect women.
I recently introduced my friends girlfriend to League of Legends. She spends a hell of a lot more time looking at the female characters than we do, she likes the sexy details, the skins, the designs and the impracticalities, while I've been fairly sick of the repetitive design Riot comes up with for female champions.

Yeah, I think there is definitely a place for silly boob-armors and skimpy clothing (for both sexes), but I'd like to see variety.

You yourself say Riot's design is 'repetitive'.

 

[Legion]

Why is it that people forget that Halo armor was equipped for unisex?

I just find it odd that for this idea that female armor is skimpy, the author couldn't point to an actual game and only opted for someone's opinion.

DA2 kind of broke that tradition. How about showing that game?

Because pointing out that it has been done many times before won't win the positive publicity that they were after by announcing it.

 

[WindKnight]

Just saying I didn't know this was much of a problem, at least in the sci-fi genre. Even Samus Aran, the original female space marine, doesn't have any gender-indicating aspects to her armor...remember everyone's surprise at the end of the first game when you find out "holy shit, it's a girl!" All I'm saying is that I don't see why it's such a big deal for a game to announce that they're not going to have space-boobs on their female space marines when it seems the majority of games don't do it anyways.

check out the repair her armour link in the original post to find this is kinda the exception, not the rule. And remember Samus revealed she was a girl by stripping down to a swimsuit, leotard or skintight bodysuit depending on which game you played.

Still, Kudos to the companies for this design, lets hope more designers take the hint.

Why is it that people forget that Halo armor was equipped for unisex?

I just find it odd that for this idea that female armor is skimpy, the author couldn't point to an actual game and only opted for someone's opinion.

DA2 kind of broke that tradition. How about showing that game?

Because pointing out that it has been done many times before won't win the positive publicity that they were after by announcing it.

Because pointing out the few times its been done correctly doesn't invalidate the overwhelming majority of cases where it isn't?

Don't get me me wrong, I'll always trump the horn of how the bro-est of bro-shooters Gears Of War 3 did female characters fantastically (sensible armour, multiple female characters not just a token one, and they even had an older woman available, something thats far too rare), it doesnt change the usual depiction of a female soldier is armoured halter top with a plunging neckline, and lots of bare stomach to aim for.

 

[somonels]

In the far future of mankind, female combatant's boobs are cut off to allow more standard forms of armor, improved dexterity and lower the strain on the back. Dun dun Duuuun.

Also, remember kids, girls have smaller hitboxes