NC Republicans outright lie and have vote while Dems are busy honoring 9/11 victims

[Saelune]

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/a-new-low-nc-republicans-override-governors-veto-while-dems-attended-9-11-ceremony/

Because Democracy is the enemy of the Republican party, they literally cannot rely on actual voting to help them, so they blatantly lie to the Democrats, and while the Democrats are busy honoring the victims of 9/11, victims that Republicans have continued to abuse while also using their deaths to fuel their own bigotry against American Muslims.

Republicans do not care about 9/11 victims, nor do they care about the Democratic process as this clearly shows.

Why is this even legal? What is the point if they can just outright ignore people who are supposed to have a say in this? It is clear that the Republican Government cares not for our voices to be heard, cares not for Democracy, cares not even for the Republic.

In short, this is bullshit.

 

[Red Sentinel]

You're missing the [politics] tag. Again.

At this point I'm not sure if you're doing it deliberately, or if it's actually an oversight and absentmindedness literally every time you make a new thread. I find it hard to believe it's the latter.

 

[Elfgore]

You're missing the [politics] tag. Again.

At this point I'm not sure if you're doing it deliberately, or if it's actually an oversight and absentmindedness literally every time you make a new thread. I find it hard to believe it's the latter.

It's almost like removing R&P and moving it to off-topic was a bad idea. Huh, who would've thought?

In the news today, just when people thought they couldn't get any lower, Republicans in the U.S. do it once again! Straight lying and using a national tragedy to override a veto. We can only wonder if the democrats did this, President Trump would actually comment on it and probably do everything in his power to have those democrats removed from their position and call them horrible people. Spoiler, he probably would.

People wonder why I tend to dislike anyone who isn't at least liberal. This is why.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I'm not a fan of such tactics.

However, and I hate that I have to say this because I know certain parties will latch onto it... You have to have receipts when you feel you're dealing with liars. If this was communicated to the Democrats, at least five or so should have emailed across party lines "Hey, I heard we have no votes tomorrow via Rep So and So. Is that true?"

If you don't count someone as trustworthy, then you must cover your ass. That's why I'll always record any interactions with police officers that I'll be a party to. Sadly, I have no real proof that the Republicans did this. If they did, my disgust will know no bounds. Even if my feelings makes me want to rail and rant, I have to hold that pre-emptive anger down until the proof comes out.

God willing, let the proof come out. I'm getting sick of taking the high road while getting laughed at by those who dwell in the muck and mire...

 

[djinns]

Here's what happens when the roles are reversed.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/24/735413213/for-days-oregon-republicans-are-on-the-lam-over-a-climate-bill

Republican state Senators in Oregon have refused to show up for work since Thursday. That same day, Democratic Gov. Kate Brown authorized state police to track down and return Republicans to the state Capitol in Salem.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/armed-militias-pledge-to-fight-for-fugitive-oregon-gop-lawmakers-at-any-cost?ref=home

 

[Saelune]

I'm not a fan of such tactics.

However, and I hate that I have to say this because I know certain parties will latch onto it... You have to have receipts when you feel you're dealing with liars. If this was communicated to the Democrats, at least five or so should have emailed across party lines "Hey, I heard we have no votes tomorrow via Rep So and So. Is that true?"

If you don't count someone as trustworthy, then you must cover your ass. That's why I'll always record any interactions with police officers that I'll be a party to. Sadly, I have no real proof that the Republicans did this. If they did, my disgust will know no bounds. Even if my feelings makes me want to rail and rant, I have to hold that pre-emptive anger down until the proof comes out.

God willing, let the proof come out. I'm getting sick of taking the high road while getting laughed at by those who dwell in the muck and mire...

Who are you going to believe? The people who lie, or the people who dont? The proof is the Republicans had a vote when all the Democrats were gone. Why is that even allowed? They all deserve a vote, even if it requires absentee voting. What even is the point of rules and voting if we ignore them all?

Proven liars need to have the burden of proof put on them to prove they arent lying.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Who are you going to believe? The people who lie, or the people who dont? The proof is the Republicans had a vote when all the Democrats were gone. Why is that even allowed? They all deserve a vote, even if it requires absentee voting. What even is the point of rules and voting if we ignore them all?

Proven liars need to have the burden of proof put on them to prove they arent lying.

I don't believe the Republicans in the state that has been stolen from voters due to Republican gerrymandering. Not even slightly.

But this is about being better than. The second Fox News says some bullshit, that's the only proof a good number of their viewers need to completely believe ANY ole Bull said. No fact check, no trying to discern truth for themselves. The very Antithesis of a well thought out position to place my voting power behind.

We can not lambast them for that and then do the same. We need to think about those in the middle. Democrats (and Progressives like me) are going to Liberal. Republicans are going to Conservative. But the middle ground who were swayed in 2016 to not give a fuck, to say both choices suck, and/or who decided to burn it all down with a vote for Trump needs to see a difference between us again. They need to see a sane, rational choice if we want to sway them. Not a different type of trash fire.

I'm not saying not to be outraged. I am outraged. A good deal. And as I already said, I'm tired of going down the high road when the opposition does nothing but childish tactics on one end, and disgusting tactics on the other. But we can only offer rational thought. We can only offer the high ground. And that can only be afforded by indisputable facts. Without them, I just have my feelings of disgust and anger. But no proof.

And I will not have another 2016 happen because I can not keep my calm.

 

[Saelune]

Who are you going to believe? The people who lie, or the people who dont? The proof is the Republicans had a vote when all the Democrats were gone. Why is that even allowed? They all deserve a vote, even if it requires absentee voting. What even is the point of rules and voting if we ignore them all?

Proven liars need to have the burden of proof put on them to prove they arent lying.

I don't believe the Republicans in the state that has been stolen from voters due to Republican gerrymandering. Not even slightly.

But this is about being better than. The second Fox News says some bullshit, that's the only proof a good number of their viewers need to completely believe ANY ole Bull said. No fact check, no trying to discern truth for themselves. The very Antithesis of a well thought out position to place my voting power behind.

We can not lambast them for that and then do the same. We need to think about those in the middle. Democrats (and Progressives like me) are going to Liberal. Republicans are going to Conservative. But the middle ground who were swayed in 2016 to not give a fuck, to say both choices suck, and/or who decided to burn it all down with a vote for Trump needs to see a difference between us again. They need to see a sane, rational choice if we want to sway them. Not a different type of trash fire.

I'm not saying not to be outraged. I am outraged. A good deal. And as I already said, I'm tired of going down the high road when the opposition does nothing but childish tactics on one end, and disgusting tactics on the other. But we can only offer rational thought. We can only offer the high ground. And that can only be afforded by indisputable facts. Without them, I just have my feelings of disgust and anger. But no proof.

And I will not have another 2016 happen because I can not keep my calm.

We are far beyond needing to try to 'be better than', cause we are better than them, and have been for a long long time, and it is time to stop beating ourselves up and start holding them responsible for every wrong they commit, every trick they make, every lie they tell. We are better than them by not being them. We are not wrong for standing up to them, we are not wrong for calling them out, we are only wrong when we stop admitting that the problem is them.

The burden of proof is on them.

Its not about convincing them to be better, it is about reminding us to stop them.

The lines are drawn. The middle ground? The middle between what? Those who call themselves 'centrists' are right-wingers. Because they measure between the center of the right and the far right. The actual political center between left and right views? You know what Republicans call them? 'Extreme left'.

We live in a world where Trump says Fox is left-wing, where Fox calls Bolton left wing.

Jones, you know better. It is long past for us to be the abused house-wife who says 'Its my fault I made him mad'. We need to stand up for ourselves and for each other and stop playing by rules set by liars and cheats.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

We are far beyond needing to try to 'be better than', cause we are better than them, and have been for a long long time, and it is time to stop beating ourselves up and start holding them responsible for every wrong they commit, every trick they make, every lie they tell. We are better than them by not being them. We are not wrong for standing up to them, we are not wrong for calling them out, we are only wrong when we stop admitting that the problem is them.

The burden of proof is on them.

Its not about convincing them to be better, it is about reminding us to stop them.

The lines are drawn. The middle ground? The middle between what? Those who call themselves 'centrists' are right-wingers. Because they measure between the center of the right and the far right. The actual political center between left and right views? You know what Republicans call them? 'Extreme left'.

We live in a world where Trump says Fox is left-wing, where Fox calls Bolton left wing.

Jones, you know better. It is long past for us to be the abused house-wife who says 'Its my fault I made him mad'. We need to stand up for ourselves and for each other and stop playing by rules set by liars and cheats.

I'm done with the Republicans. Again, my focus is on the middle ground. The independents. The Swing voters. They went to Trump or didn't vote because they didn't see a difference between Us and Them. I am standing. I'm standing to show those important votes that this is the side to go with. Not the side that will allow crap like this to go along while accusing democrats of nefarious junk that Republicans have already done (i.e. saying the democrats were downstairs at the time redrawing maps [https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/11/politics/north-carolina-house-budget-veto/index.html]).

You Mistake Unexpressed Rage as coddling the Republicans. It isn't. We are each representatives of our ideals. My ideals go contradictory to the bull that Republicans like these North Carolinians. Therefore, I can not act like them.

 

[tstorm823]

This is a great example of the sort of headline you should read and instinctively understand it's probably a lie.

To present the facts of the case:

North Carolina House Minority Leader Darren Jackson (D) approached Representative David Lewis (R) after adjournment on September 10th.
Jackson inquired about there being time out of the chamber in some capacity on September 11th.
The details of this conversation are disputed between the only known two people present.
Darren Jackson went on to personally tell his party members that they don't have to come to Chambers the next morning.
The Republicans held the vote the next day while the Democrats were away.

The account of David Lewis. [https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article234983887.html]
The account of Darren Jackson. [https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article234986257.html]

For those not clicking those links and watching the videos, the important part is Darren Jacksons's telling of the events.

Immediately upon adjournment, I asked to speak to Representative Lewis, and the first thing I said is "Will we have votes in the morning?" And Representative Lewis used a curse word, and said "I forgot to say something", he said "I'll send out an email". And I said "you don't need to do that, I trust you."

So from Jackson's own comments, we know no announcement was made by Republicans, and Jackson himself is responsible for both the suggestion to not have votes in the morning and the disbursement of that message to only other Democrats. Given this, I can only think of 4 reasonable possibilities about what happened.

A) Jackson is telling the truth of what happened, and is also the biggest idiot in the history of politics. He suggested a break for the morning, turned down an official memo being sent out, and then told only his own party to not show up.
B) Jackson is lying and invented the whole situation himself to publicly tar the Republicans.
C) Jackson is lying and conspiring with Republicans, and agreed to get his own party out of the chamber for the morning to let the bill pass.
D) Both parties are in on the conspiracy, and the Democrats made a back alley deal to let the bill pass if they could look good while it happened.

I honestly can't pick what I think is most likely.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Why is that even allowed?

The reason it's allowed to vote without all of the necessary parties present is because if a party knew that they were going to lose a vote and didn't show up they shouldn't be able to stop the voting process from happening.

It's a tactic both republicans and democrats have used in the past when they didn't have a majority to win a vote, but did have enough people to prevent a vote from being called.

http://archive.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.html

So you have an issue that's bad either way. You either have a system where votes can be made with absent parties, thus robbing those parties of the vote and stunting the democratic process, or you have a system where a minority party can prevent a vote from happening on an issue (similar to filibustering). It's all cheap tactics and the reason no one believes in the government.

The fact that the republicans did this on 9/11 makes it extra disgusting.

Really though, the answer to this issue is very simple. HAVE THE LEGISLATORS DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS. They should be forced to be at work just like everyone else, and if they miss votes they automatically get fired and replaced. Fuck legislators for spending 50% of their time begging for contributions rather than working.

Last time I took a trip to DC I watched the House of Representatives in session, and there were literally only 10 people actually there. There were more tourists in the gallery watching the proceedings than there were representatives there doing their jobs. It was pathetic.

9/11 isn't a national holiday, people don't have it off. The legislators should have been in their seats doing their jobs like literally every other employed person in the country, then the republicans wouldn't have gotten away with this bullshit.

 

[Abomination]

Jones is right in this. American elections are won by swing voters or undecideds, not by card carrying party loyalists.

The Democrats made the fatal mistake of proving to the public that they are corrupt as well as their opposition. Certainly the lesser of the two evils, yet an evil nevertheless. Many were disheartened by this and cared not to vote, not feeling as though it makes much of a difference either way as to which pig hogs the trough.

Do not cater to your die-hard supporters, you've already won them, cater to those who can swing - and don't insult them for not swinging your way. If you shove people into the opposition's camp, don't be surprised when they stay there.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Why is that even allowed?

The reason it's allowed to vote without all of the necessary parties present is because if a party knew that they were going to lose a vote and didn't show up they shouldn't be able to stop the voting process from happening.

It's a tactic both republicans and democrats have used in the past when they didn't have a majority to win a vote, but did have enough people to prevent a vote from being called.

http://archive.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.html

So you have an issue that's bad either way. You either have a system where votes can be made with absent parties, thus robbing those parties of the vote and stunting the democratic process, or you have a system where a minority party can prevent a vote from happening on an issue (similar to filibustering). It's all cheap tactics and the reason no one believes in the government.

The fact that the republicans did this on 9/11 makes it extra disgusting.

Really though, the answer to this issue is very simple. HAVE THE LEGISLATORS DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS. They should be forced to be at work just like everyone else, and if they miss votes they automatically get fired and replaced. Fuck legislators for spending 50% of their time begging for contributions rather than working.

Last time I took a trip to DC I watched the House of Representatives in session, and there were literally only 10 people actually there. There were more tourists in the gallery watching the proceedings than there were representatives there doing their jobs. It was pathetic.

9/11 isn't a national holiday, people don't have it off. The legislators should have been in their seats doing their jobs like literally every other employed person in the country, then the republicans wouldn't have gotten away with this bullshit.

Again, I'm waiting for the receipts. But if they were actually told by Republicans that there would be no vote that day, something is going to happen.

I'm no fan of either party right now, even though I am liberal. I think Democrats are screwing up royally. And that's why I really don't think they would skip out on one of their very rare wins. That doesn't make any type of sense. Especially allowing a hard earned battle slip away from them like that.

 

[Squilookle]

Put the [Politics] tag on. You know the rules as well as anybody.

 

[Worgen]

Put the [Politics] tag on. You know the rules as well as anybody.

Wait, is that actually a rule? I thought it was just a suggestion.

No surprise that republicans are scum, they know they can't win fairly so they lie cheat and steal.

 

[Saelune]

This is a great example of the sort of headline you should read and instinctively understand it's probably a lie.

You think everything that disagrees with you is a lie, and you need to stop.

 

[Saelune]

Jones is right in this. American elections are won by swing voters or undecideds, not by card carrying party loyalists.

The Democrats made the fatal mistake of proving to the public that they are corrupt as well as their opposition. Certainly the lesser of the two evils, yet an evil nevertheless. Many were disheartened by this and cared not to vote, not feeling as though it makes much of a difference either way as to which pig hogs the trough.

Do not cater to your die-hard supporters, you've already won them, cater to those who can swing - and don't insult them for not swinging your way. If you shove people into the opposition's camp, don't be surprised when they stay there.

Catering to 'moderates' was the problem with Democrats. Instead we should go hard left and stop trying to appeal to people with half-assed solutions that are designed to not offend right-wingers, cause then the right-wingers get to sabotage it and claim it was all the Dem's fault. Obamacare is a shining example.

Now is the time to stand firmly left-wing. We are the ones offering help, aid, healthcare and debt solutions, protections of your rights and well-being. Pandering to those who would sooner shoot their own foot off than help another is not the solution.