Neil Armstrong to NASA: You Are an Embarassment

[Baresark]

I was butthurt when they shut her down, but it really only makes sense. A private organization will be able to make 50 times the progress the government could in this area. Also, that shot about nationalist pride, that is the problem with America. Too much nationalist pride, and not enough critique of the how shitty of a job our government does. Sinking more tax payer money into yet another shuttle mission to the moon is pointless. Habitually going to the same area again and again is not progress at all. Think about it, computers today can do a billion times the work, software engineers are a dime a dozen meaning there is lots of room for innovation in any necessary software and calculations from just about all sectors of the economy. Vast strides have been made in material production. As a race, we can all look forward to a good future with this, but never at the hands of any government. We have ceded leadership of this to another inefficient government, that is fine, now the private parts of our country, of the world can do what no government could. And that is actually progress any kind of space program.

 

[Baresark]

"The nationalist pride the US won by beating the Russians to the Moon is exactly what the country needs right now."

Wasn't the whole Space-Race an offshoot of the Cold War? That's err... an interesting comment to make.

The last thing you guys need is more Nationalist pride.

(And you just had country-wide parties because a man had his head blown off; how much more Nationalist do you want to get?)

I did not attend one of these parties, nor do I know of anyone who attended one of these parties, nor have I actually even heard of one of these parties.

Bin Laden's death was not as significant to Americans as people would assume. Most of us thought "Thats great, now what about the rest of Al Qaeda".

It's not worth it man. People make snap judgements all the time, based on what I like to call the laundry list of cut and paste reasons to hate America. We have no morals but we are not secularized at all apparently. We make war and get drunk with joy when people die. People who come at us with this stuff are a bunch of ignorant hatemongers. America isn't perfect at all, but most of us are not the degenerates people like this like to believe. If one guy makes a mistake, it's because we are a nation of morons, not individuals who make mistakes, just like them.

As a side not, welcome to the internet.

 

[Baresark]

The Space Program has no actual use anymore, all it is, all it ever was, was a symbol of power and dominance. It was a way to show off how much money we have. Is it worth burning through resources just to show off?

Exploration and discovery are considered two of the great human endeavors. The space program was an epitome of both, and it certainly wasn't "just to show off". Without the space program we wouldn't have developed a number of things. Here is a short list of inventions and discoveries beneficial to man kind that in part were helped along by the space program.

CAT scans
MRIs
Kidney dialysis machines
Heart defibrillator technology
Remote robotic surgery
Artificial heart pump technology
Physical therapy machines
Positron emission tomography
Microwave receivers used in scans for breast cancer
Cardiac angiography
Monitoring neutron activity in the brain
Cleaning techniques for hospital operating rooms
Portable x-ray technology for neonatal offices and 3rd world countries
Freeze-dried food
Water purification filters
ATM technology
Pay at the Pump satellite technology
Athletic shoe manufacturing technique
Insulation barriers for autos
Image-processing software for crash-testing automobiles
Holographic testing of communications antennas
Low-noise receivers
Cordless tools
A computer language used by businesses such as car repair shops, Kodak, hand-held computers, express mail
Aerial reconnaissance and Earth resources mapping
Airport baggage scanners
Distinction between natural space objects and satellites/warheads/rockets for defense
Satellite monitors for nuclear detonations
Hazardous gas sensors
Precision navigation
Clock synchronization
Ballistic missile guidance
Secure communications
Study of ozone depletion
Climate change studies
Monitoring of Earth-based storms such as hurricanes
Solar collectors
Fusion reactors
Space-age fabrics for divers, swimmers, hazardous material workers, and others
Teflon-coated fiberglass for roofing material
Lightweight breathing system used by firefighters
Atomic oxygen facility for removing unwanted material from 19th century paintings
FDA-adopted food safety program that has reduced salmonella cases by a factor of 2
Multispectral imaging methods used to read ancient Roman manuscripts buried by Mt. Vesuvius

But most importantly I would say are the Satellites that perform a number of various things for us. The manned space mission to the moon wasn't just a feat of patriotism either. They placed a number of instruments out there to allow us to perform experiments and research. Even today experiments are being performed on the ISS and new discoveries made. So if you say the space program was just a bunch of hot air, either now or ever was, then you are saying that discovery is a bunch of hot air. You may think we have more pressing issues now, and maybe we do depending on how you prioritize things. However, I and many others will take offense at the statement "The space program has no actual use".

Well said.

 

[Baresark]

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So your idea of the best course of action is for America to start yet another war, this time against a massive, heavily militarized, nuclear armed country which is globally known as one of the biggest production plants in the world? Do you not realize how much money it would cost our nation? Do you realize that china is one of our major importers of materials, meaning we probably couldn't manufacture the weapons we need, even if we actually still manufactured them (a lot are made in other countries), let alone pay for them? Do you really want to have the draft reinstated and then be forced to go die in a trench with a lacerated gi track just to fulfill your inane, juvenile power fantasies?

America is a country founded on ideals of freedom, fairness and honorable action; it is not a nation of petty thieves who borrow money and then threaten to stab the lender when they ask for it back. Are you really suggesting that it's in america's best interest to become the nation equivalent of a violent, dead beat dad?

I have to say this about this argument on all sides. No one here is speaking from a realistic standpoint. No war is not the way, you are right about that. The Soviet Union died because people called in their debts to them. It took 3 days. The US Government would say, "no, screw off", and it would just lead to economic ruin. Theuromancer is wrong, but you let him troll you. Yopaz isn't doing much better either. He came back with, "haha, well you owe people money". No American who has a clue is proud of this, but the leviathan is at the moment, out of control. But left and right are both destructive forces. The anointed and benighted seem to remain clueless to this. Also, with all due respect, America does have vast amounts of resources, but they have spent the last 60 or so years buying everyone else's, so we have plenty to work with, unfortunately.

 

[Sean951]

Yes, NASA was bankrupting the country. NASA, who has spent less in it's existence than the Wall Street bailout. I also understand not wanting to trust another country in order to get people into space. I don't think Neil cares that they are Russians, he would likely feel the same way if they were French or English. America shouldn't have to rely on others to get our people into space. I would be more than willing to spend and extra penny per dollar in taxes to give NASA roughly $14 billion (assuming the GDP = Total income). Personally, I would be willing to spend more since I have always been in love with space.

 

[Yopaz]

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China got nuclear weapons. Russia got nuclear weapons. France got nuclear weapons. These are but 3 of the countries in the world with nuclear weapons. If USA were to go to war because they don't want to pay back their debt you can bet your ass both Russia and China would be on the opposite side, and probably every European country too. If USA were to go to war against China the world would be able to survive a few months at best, and last time I checked USA is part of the world. Still I really think you should go tell Obama to be openly hostile to both Russia and China. See how long it will take before there's no money left.

I would like to point out that the majority of debt the USA government owes is to its own citizens. So even if we defaulted on the foreign debt (bad idea for every reason) we would still have the majority of our debt. Roughly 10 trillion out of the total ~15 trillion of it to be more accurate. About 5 trillion (I'm rounding up all these numbers by the way) is owed to foreigners, and of that 5 trillion China holds about 1.1 trillion. Russia owns far less at 100 billion. Japan is actually the second largest owner of foreign debt at about 915 billion.

The problem with this issue is that people look at the government debt, and superimpose concepts and ideas about a person being in a large amount of debt. Its just not that simple. Most of our debt (~50% of it actually) is actually borrowed from the government itself. That is right, almost half our debt that we owe is owed to our own government. Different sections of the government (state level and lower mostly) but our own government.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

I wont discuss this with you because you're right in everything you say in your post. There's sinkhole here and USA's being swallowed in its own debt. I knew some of this, but thanks for explaining it in such big detail. The only point I wanted to make with my post was that USA is not in a financial state where they can afford to lose support by making an orbiting stealth bomber that will most likely start world war 3.

 

[ACman]

So let me get this straight - a country that prides itself on capitalist democracy should have a socialist space program when they're still arguing socialist health care is a bad thing?

Home of the Brave...I guess the kind of bravery that's a kin to stupidity.

I love your definition of socialism.

Government funded != Socialism.

Is Armed Forces socialist? The police force? The fact that Americans think that Obamacare healthcare reform is socialism insane.

If the government TAKES OVER an entire industry in a particular sector then that is socialism. If the government has control of all companies and disallows competition then that is socialism.

A system where government is involved in a part of a market with other private companies is NOT socialism.

 

[Volothos]

I blame the warp storms.

Seriously though, where will such nationalism bring us to?

 

[Macgyvercas]

GO BUZZ GO!

*ahem* Sorry, I watched the video in the link and remembered how much I hate moon landing conspiracy theorists.

Anyway, yes, we do need to reignite the space program. I personally would rather have my tax dollars go towards that than line to pockets of the bastards in Congress.

 

[Mechanix]

Huge respect to Armstrong for that. It's a travesty that the space program was even considered to be shut down. Maybe some day the government will wake up and realize what a huge mistake it was.

 

[Scrustle]

As much as I would love manned space travel to return I don't think national pride is a good enough reason to bring it back. Also I don't think the space shuttle can be said to be "in the prime of it's life". It's a pretty old machine now. There was a reason why people have been designing replacements for it for years now. Shame we will probably never see them happen.

 

[Mike Fang]

I think we definitely do need to expand our exploration of outer space; as a people I don't think we can confine ourselves to a single planet when a large segment of the population has a sense of adventure and a desire to explore and discover. There's a lot of space out there to try and discover and learn about and we can't give up easily and remand ourselves to nothing but satellites, probes and unmanned robot craft.

 

[Aprilgold]

I kinda wish I had some figures here, but didn't Bush get close a trillion dollars of a war-chest for Iraq and Afghanistan?

That's right, two massively demanding wars and all the expenses in finance and manpower that they drain for little if any return.

I think it's a shame that the Shuttle is being retired without being replaced, but guys, where do you expect that money to come from?

You'll fund the possibility of sending people to a stellar body which has already been walked on while having developed excellent robotics for sampling work on Mars... but you won't fund a simple programme like basic healthcare for the financially crippled of your society?

I think looking to the stars as an escape from our problems won't really solve anything.

Also, it's a very different world to the one in which Aldrin, Armstrong and Collins were sent up.
I think that it's far more beneficial to refocus on the reality of space exploration today: It's a collaborative effort.

Pooling resources with the European Space Agency and the Russians is the best way of accomplishing that.

EDIT:

I truly get it, guys. It's the final frontier, and lord knows I'd love to eke out a Firefly style existence out there in the black with a band of loyal misfits as my crew...

But it might end up being more like Sunshine, is what troubles me.
We evolve to our environment- out there, who knows what'll happen the human psyche?
Took a long, long time to make sea travel reliable and safe and not likely to end up with the crew wearing each other's limbs as hats when the shit hit the fan...

Just this. I'd also love to be able to live on the moon and just let a ton of others live up in space. If we are having a over population problem, simply send a number to the moon to live.

 

[Madara XIII]

I'm not american so I don't feel that "american pride" yack yack. But some advice: less wars in the Middle East. More money for NASA. Sounds fair?

Works for us.

Sorry have to add some text before the Moderators come down on me faster than the Space Shuttle Challenger.

Hehehe I'm going to hell for that one

 

[Madara XIII]

Huge respect to Armstrong for that. It's a travesty that the space program was even considered to be shut down. Maybe some day the government will wake up and realize what a huge mistake it was.

If the Government were to realize it's mistakes I'm certain that would cause a very tear in the fabric of Reality.

*FLASH!!*

WTF!?!? Why is my coffee mug on the ceiling pouring itself!?!?

 

[Madara XIII]

"The nationalist pride the US won by beating the Russians to the Moon is exactly what the country needs right now."

Wasn't the whole Space-Race an offshoot of the Cold War? That's err... an interesting comment to make.

The last thing you guys need is more Nationalist pride.

(And you just had country-wide parties because a man had his head blown off; how much more Nationalist do you want to get?)

HEY! I take pride in my countries nationwide celebration of death, thank you very much! [/sarcasm]

Either way I think Neil needs to get with the times and possibly come up with some tangible and profitable reasons to go to the moon.

Jesus~ Christo

However his statement about beating the Russians reminded me of a hilarious if not off-topic visualization of my country during the cold war.

<youtube=wcW_Ygs6hm0>

[HEADING=2]Ya Hear that America!? This is us![/HEADING]

 

[Wolfenbarg]

Gunning for American pride in the globalist age isn't exactly a wise idea, but the point still stands. Government spending used to be funneled into projects like this to get the economy moving, now we just increase troop movements and let that get the economy stirring. Hell, it's the only reason my city continues to grow while every other city in my state is facing hard times. Not paying for the space program will come back to bite them in the ass though. In the next decade, everyone and his brother will be back on the moon, while NASA scrapped their plans to return. These are goals you have to set out for the long term.

Thank goodness for Virgin Galactic at least. They're just trying to get paid tours into space, but at least it's some fucking progress, especially since their design has to be so much more efficient. They aren't sending a few dozen tons of equipment into space after all, just people.

 

[acosn]

I could understand it if there was some next latest / greatest form of space transportation just around the corner, but I'm not seeing anything.

It's a sad day when we're more willing to give our best and brightest the world's most sophisticated killing tools, and sending them across the globe to intimidate and kill goat herders in the middle east.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

As long as the economy is still in the shitter, we should be focusing or priorities on other things besides war and the space program.

The cost of actually living on Mars isn't going to be affordable in the near future.

In the 60s through 80s we actually had the money to do this. Russian documents lamented on how fucking afraid they were that the US actually managed to keep wars, the space program, and the economy all up in check at the same time. We do not have the money for this anymore. Not to mention how inappropriate and just plain tasteless it would be for us to actually put money into it considering where we are right now.

Edit: It's strange to see some of you people claiming Globalist agendas, yet also saying the War's in the middle east need to be stopped.

How can everyone unite if they are still under the control of senseless dictators and constantly afraid of being killed by terrorists organizations? The minute we leave Afghanistan, the country is going to collapse.

Over half this world still doesn't have basic human rights.

War is never good. But in some cases it's necessary.