Neil Armstrong to NASA: You Are an Embarassment

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Yeah, America's debt is over 14 trillion! Let's spend money on going into space to do...

What exactly?

Apart from jingoistic pride, what exactly does America gain from this? We're talking large sums of money just to hit the atmosphere, so surely there needs to be some tangible gain. Especially to such a deeply capitalist country. Where's the business here? Where's the profit?

 

[Zanez]

Space is still a race? Why the hurry...? Space isn't going anywhere. The financial investment of a space program isn't the kind of thing you see much returns on. Americas money problems aren't going to be solved by going into space You think you are gunna find oil on Mars? An underground cavern full of money? A new planet just behind the sun that can be claimed and colonised for trading opportunities?
Oh, its the nationalism and the sense of pride americans feel by beating the russians to an arbitrary goal. I suppose that makes money...
There is a diminishing return on nationalist gains from space missions, I'm afraid. The moon was a landmark, because it was the first extra terrestrial body that we stood on. You could look up at night and see the moon clearly. It was full of mystery and beauty and mesmerized people all over the world for as long as we have been able to ponder.
Mars is a tiny blip that doesn't really stand out unless you know what to look for. When we get there, we know what it will be... there is no mystery, no spectacular findings to uncover. Basically it is "Moon 2.0: Now in red!"

The only reason America should go to Mars, is if they can actually set in motion, some kind of lasting effect there... either financial or scientific. Begin advanced terraforming of the planet for some future gains. Set up a large scale scientific operation that can return some useful science that has real applications. Sadly that is decades away from possibility. Current space missions are little more than long term vacations.

Spending literally a trillion dollars so you can have a person walk around in the dust for a few days then come home is not a good investment. Spend $50 and bus them out to the desert and back.

 

[Grospoliner]

..Fuck yeah! I agree with Cernan. Dust the fucking shuttles off and send them back up. Just because they're old doesn't mean they're not useful!

The space shuttle was the biggest mistake NASA ever made. It was a political showboat and little better. What we needed were proper heavy lift vehicles, not star trek style rubbish.

 

[Woodsey]

"The nationalist pride the US won by beating the Russians to the Moon is exactly what the country needs right now."

Wasn't the whole Space-Race an offshoot of the Cold War? That's err... an interesting comment to make.

The last thing you guys need is more Nationalist pride.

(And you just had country-wide parties because a man had his head blown off; how much more Nationalist do you want to get?)

 

[SuperWombat6]

Space is still a race? Why the hurry...? Space isn't going anywhere. The financial investment of a space program isn't the kind of thing you see much returns on. Americas money problems aren't going to be solved by going into space You think you are gunna find oil on Mars? An underground cavern full of money? A new planet just behind the sun that can be claimed and colonised for trading opportunities?
Oh, its the nationalism and the sense of pride americans feel by beating the russians to an arbitrary goal. I suppose that makes money...
There is a diminishing return on nationalist gains from space missions, I'm afraid. The moon was a landmark, because it was the first extra terrestrial body that we stood on. You could look up at night and see the moon clearly. It was full of mystery and beauty and mesmerized people all over the world for as long as we have been able to ponder.
Mars is a tiny blip that doesn't really stand out unless you know what to look for. When we get there, we know what it will be... there is no mystery, no spectacular findings to uncover. Basically it is "Moon 2.0: Now in red!"

The only reason America should go to Mars, is if they can actually set in motion, some kind of lasting effect there... either financial or scientific. Begin advanced terraforming of the planet for some future gains. Set up a large scale scientific operation that can return some useful science that has real applications.

Spending literally a trillion dollars so you can have a person walk around in the dust for a few days then come home is not a good investment. Spend $50 and bus them out to the desert and back.

There actually is a reason to go to Mars. In fact, over the summer I participated in a program that involved designing a robot that could explore extinct lava tubes on Mars, for the sake of scouting out possible locations for human habitation. With a manned base on Mars, research and experimentation that previously required advanced, expensive robots would be in the hands of people, and they may just uncover some significant discoveries. Unlike the lunar landings, which were somewhat viewed as "glory first, science second", at least initially, putting people on Mars would be fueled by a desire for knowledge and advancement.

 

[Zanez]

Space is still a race? Why the hurry...? Space isn't going anywhere. The financial investment of a space program isn't the kind of thing you see much returns on. Americas money problems aren't going to be solved by going into space You think you are gunna find oil on Mars? An underground cavern full of money? A new planet just behind the sun that can be claimed and colonised for trading opportunities?
Oh, its the nationalism and the sense of pride americans feel by beating the russians to an arbitrary goal. I suppose that makes money...
There is a diminishing return on nationalist gains from space missions, I'm afraid. The moon was a landmark, because it was the first extra terrestrial body that we stood on. You could look up at night and see the moon clearly. It was full of mystery and beauty and mesmerized people all over the world for as long as we have been able to ponder.
Mars is a tiny blip that doesn't really stand out unless you know what to look for. When we get there, we know what it will be... there is no mystery, no spectacular findings to uncover. Basically it is "Moon 2.0: Now in red!"

The only reason America should go to Mars, is if they can actually set in motion, some kind of lasting effect there... either financial or scientific. Begin advanced terraforming of the planet for some future gains. Set up a large scale scientific operation that can return some useful science that has real applications.

Spending literally a trillion dollars so you can have a person walk around in the dust for a few days then come home is not a good investment. Spend $50 and bus them out to the desert and back.

There actually is a reason to go to Mars. In fact, over the summer I participated in a program that involved designing a robot that could explore extinct lava tubes on Mars, for the sake of scouting out possible locations for human habitation. With a manned base on Mars, research and experimentation that previously required advanced, expensive robots would be in the hands of people, and they may just uncover some significant discoveries. Unlike the lunar landings, which were somewhat viewed as "glory first, science second", at least initially, putting people on Mars would be fueled by a desire for knowledge and advancement.

Well then that would be the reason to go. According to Neil here, we need to go so we can show those damn russians (who after all are just the soviets under a new name amirite?) who's boss! This kind of thinking is wasteful and borderline dangerous.

 

[acutekat]

I was ashamed to call myself a gamer when I read some of the comments on here. Arguing against manned space exploration is arguing against everything we hold dear, not only as gamers but as the human race. Space holds the answers for every problem we have here down on earth. Space is literally the final frontier, we need to go out there and discover strange new worlds and new civilizations, to boldly go, as the old television show once put it. I can't believe we are putting this in terms of dollars and cents, the destiny of the human race does not have a price tag.

Plus, dammit, I want to set foot on the moon, myself, and I. AM. NOT. giving up hope.

 

[JMeganSnow]

The image of a panel of old men who have actually walked on the moon demanding that we bring back the space program is strange to imagine, and I can't help but see NASA's decline as the decline of American civilization.

You've got that right. In NASA's defense, the space shuttle really, truly is obsolete. It DESPERATELY needs to be replaced, and the politicized, budget-ridden hulk that NASA is now is the *last* group that anyone should want to be spearheading the "replace the space shuttle" initiative. Leave them to their fiddling and their whimpering about global warming.

 

[thirion1850]

...Er. I think they're asking for all the wrong reasons there. Pride is something America will never start lacking. ... As a matter of fact, it can really use an ego check sometimes. Point is, I totally agree with the whole "Reinstall the bloody space program" but only because it will evolve and advance mankind as a whole.

 

[gphjr14]

An old legend trying to be relevant once again, nothing new here.
The high the US had after WWII and the adrenaline rush of the Cold War is over. The space race was somewhat about national pride but the military advantages were probably the main push behind the initiative. In the 21st century our economy should take precedence over space exploration. If private companies wanna spend their money doing it that's fine.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

This makes me think just how awesome it would be for it to be a requirement for politicians to have been astronauts at some point.

Reason 1: Politicians with a better view of the world
Reason 2: More astronauts

It would have its downsides, but it would certainly be more interesting...

 

[SuperWombat6]

I was ashamed to call myself a gamer when I read some of the comments on here. Arguing against manned space exploration is arguing against everything we hold dear, not only as gamers but as the human race. Space holds the answers for every problem we have here down on earth. Space is literally the final frontier, we need to go out there and discover strange new worlds and new civilizations, to boldly go, as the old television show once put it. I can't believe we are putting this in terms of dollars and cents, the destiny of the human race does not have a price tag.

Plus, dammit, I want to set foot on the moon, myself, and I. AM. NOT. giving up hope.

Unfortunately, while we'd like to think that money shouldn't matter, it inevitably does. During a recession, people are more likely to be interested in staying afloat financially than sending rockets into space. Don't get me wrong, I love the space program and would even love someday to be a part of it, right now it simply isn't a priority.

On the other hand, private companies are beginning to appear in the field of space travel. NASA itself may end up obsolete, replaced by these private companies. There are pros and cons to this possibility, as with anything, but with NASA losing funding in the economic downturn, these private companies may be the best bet.

 

[Boba Frag]

I kinda wish I had some figures here, but didn't Bush get close a trillion dollars of a war-chest for Iraq and Afghanistan?

That's right, two massively demanding wars and all the expenses in finance and manpower that they drain for little if any return.

I think it's a shame that the Shuttle is being retired without being replaced, but guys, where do you expect that money to come from?

You'll fund the possibility of sending people to a stellar body which has already been walked on while having developed excellent robotics for sampling work on Mars... but you won't fund a simple programme like basic healthcare for the financially crippled of your society?

I think looking to the stars as an escape from our problems won't really solve anything.

Also, it's a very different world to the one in which Aldrin, Armstrong and Collins were sent up.
I think that it's far more beneficial to refocus on the reality of space exploration today: It's a collaborative effort.

Pooling resources with the European Space Agency and the Russians is the best way of accomplishing that.

EDIT:

I truly get it, guys. It's the final frontier, and lord knows I'd love to eke out a Firefly style existence out there in the black with a band of loyal misfits as my crew...

But it might end up being more like Sunshine, is what troubles me.
We evolve to our environment- out there, who knows what'll happen the human psyche?
Took a long, long time to make sea travel reliable and safe and not likely to end up with the crew wearing each other's limbs as hats when the shit hit the fan...

 

[Daverson]

Is that guy somehow thinking that this is the cold war all over again. Launching money into space won't precisely help your economical problems.

That's the sort of attitude that would have had Christopher Columbus stay at home!

Fact is, we're all going to feel real stupid when we spend a hundred odd years trying to solve the economic crisis, only to find there's a huge suitcase full of money hidden on the dark side of the moon. (Not a literal suitcase full of money, of course... though, that said, I do believe there's still a large amount of Nazi Gold unaccounted for...)

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I can't believe the fact they retired the space shuttle without something else ready to take its place. However, no one wants to give funding to space exploration. Everyone sees it as a waste of time without realizing all the technological advances that come from it.
They also don't realize what a tiny tiny piece of your taxes go towards it. Americans are idiots though.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

An old legend trying to be relevant once again, nothing new here.
The high the US had after WWII and the adrenaline rush of the Cold War is over. The space race was somewhat about national pride but the military advantages were probably the main push behind the initiative. In the 21st century our economy should take precedence over space exploration. If private companies wanna spend their money doing it that's fine.

So you are saying that until the economy is back on track, we should just halt all progress? That is the mindset I see in most Americans nowadays. The best way to fix the economy is to stop spending money on everything and that will suddenly create jobs. Do you realize what a small part of the budget goes into NASA?

 

[McMullen]

I agree, Space Exploration needs to be one of our major priorities especially with the Chinese getting into the game.

Really, the problem here is that the US hasn't been nationalistic enough, and all of the left wing stuff about how "oh the Ruskies and Chinese are our friends" has detracted from the reality of the situation and how far behind we've been getting. To a liberal, why does it matter if we give Russia space if they are our bestest buddies in the world?

Given the things China has been doing to our satellites (do a search for China, Satellite, Lasers, it's been an issue since like 2006) I think one way to justify the spending would be to do what few people have wanted to support before... and fold The Space Program into the military officially, and task the military with coming up with obtaining domination over space as well as land, sea, and air. While boats, Jets, and Tanks are all important, I think folding the money being used to develop some of that stuff into spacecraft could achieve the same or better results.

The way I look at it is that being #1 in defense spending, but having pathetic funding for The Space Program, if we combined the two NASA and the Air Force could more officially pool their resources towards developing something like Air/Space superiority craft, rather than just pumping the money into new fighter craft or whatever. If we could build say a space shuttle that is also a stealth bomber armed with WMD, while keeping most rival space programs landlocked without our direct approval... well guess what, that guarantees American primacy for a long time to come. Even if we never actually use it, if we're ruthless enough we won't have to.

The way I see things is that if we don't develop that kind of tech someone like The Chinese are going to, and from that point on guess whose mercy we'd be at when it comes time to exploit the astroid belts for minerals, or put science stations on Mars? Yeaaah, not a pleasant thought is it?

Basically I agree with our Astronauts more or less, but in their case they are short on solutions or direct justification. Me, I have no real problem with saying that The Chinese and Russians are NOT our friends, and that like it or not we're in a very real space race again, one that already has military aspects to it, yet we're refusing to even get off the starting block due to naive politics and being overly moral.

If we go extinct on this rock, it will be the work of people like you.

 

[ironkex]

Without space we risk the possibility of stagnation....stagnation=war ...war=money,so we live poop,screw our resources...and then what ..back to sticks we go ?
No friends we need to start investing into space and less into wars,since its the only way to win more precious metals..since they are practicly draining up,and for what ? a new abrams,a new jet ,a new bloody nuke? A free man must reach the stars first not....china
Oh and i bame religion for almost evry war fought on the planet,im from middle east and i hate my capitol i hate it becouse so much blood was splilled for a pile of dirt...a bloody mountain,lets level jerusalem to the ground lets remove the churches,lets remove the mosques,sinagogues...since they only bring hate and war ,we are humans,LETS BE INTELEGENT lets join forces to go into space ,screw nazionalism,screw diversity,Lets do it for MAN KIND