Neo-Nazis Faked Out by Trick T-Shirts

The Youth Counselor

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manythings said:
Dusty Fred said:
Extremism doesn't necessarily preclude intelligence. Leon Trotsky was a very clever man, to give the first example that springs to mind.
Then Lenin killed him and photoshopped him out of existence. Also Communism is a retarded economically crippling system that is easily as bad, if not worse, than what they replaced.
Sir or Madame, you need to work on your debate skills. By bringing up something off topic and demonstrating a poor sense of history you hurt your argument.

Some corrections are needed for your statement.

1. Lenin died before Trotsky.
2. Trotsky was seen as Lenin's heir apparent.
3. In Lenin's Last Testament [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_Testament] suppressed by Stalin, he announced his wish for Stalin to be removed from power and to promote Trotsky.
4. Trotsky fled to Mexico where Stalin had him killed.
 

OctoH

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Feb 14, 2011
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That is one of the best examples of trolling I have ever heard of. I salute these people.
 

Commissar Sae

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manythings said:
Dusty Fred said:
Extremism doesn't necessarily preclude intelligence. Leon Trotsky was a very clever man, to give the first example that springs to mind.
Then Lenin killed him and photoshopped him out of existence. Also Communism is a retarded economically crippling system that is easily as bad, if not worse, than what they replaced.
Stalin had him killed, not Lenin. Lenin was already dead for about 30 or so years when Trotsky was assassinated. That just irked the historian in me.

OT: Those seem like some pretty cool shirts.

Edit: Damn I was was ninja'd.
 

Commissar Sae

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Sikratua said:
Since when were Nazis, of any ilk, "right-wing?" No, I'm dead serious when I ask that question. The name of the group gives away that it's a very left-wing ideal. The word "Nazi," after all, stems from the German word "Nationalsozialismus," which, literally, translates to "National Socialism." Are we really so far to the left that Socialism is considered "far right-wing?"

Then again, the "scholars" who place the Nazis on the "far-right" are all alumni of the Frankfurt School. The Frakfurt School was founded as the "Institute of Social Research" in 1923, by Carl Grünberg, as, for lack of a better term, a Marxist brain trust. With Hitler's rise to power in Germany, the Marxists saw the "far-right Socialism" as a major threat, and fled, ending up at Columbia University, and taking hold in the Ivy League.

So, yeah. I guess, to a group of Marxists, Socialism is "right-wing," by comparison. But, since the ACTUAL right wing, government should be small, and limit itself from the infringing it can do on the rights of others, the ACTUAL right wing has nothing to do with Socialism, or the Nazi party.
Fascism is viewed as extreme right wing. The Nazis were socialists in nothing but name. Some of the techniques between Fascism and Bolshevism are similar but the major difference shows up when you take their views on people in. Fascism is about ultimate Inequality between people, covering everything from economic to race, while communism/bolshevism is about ultimate equality between people. Things never work out quite that well in the real world but that is really the divide.
 

triggrhappy94

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Kagobin said:
triggrhappy94 said:
They still can't bring Daniel back.
Cookie for the referrence.
American History X, 1999 with Edward Norton. One of my favorite movies of all time.
You are correct sir.
I just watched it for the first time recently. It really is a great movie.
 

NaramSuen

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This story makes my day. I can tolerate many different view points and ideologies, but I have no time for racism, the sooner we have removed that scourge the better. The best part of this trick is that they were reaching out to these people with open arms and an offer of assistance.
 

BloodRed Pixel

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Such a news on Escapist? I am impressed!
We need more actions like this! None-violent. Violence is awlays a result of failure.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Between There and There.
Country
The Wide, Brown One.
I-Protest-I said:
I know some skinheads, not good friends with but I have talked to them on several occasions and they aren't racist and they're fairly intelligent. Seems more like a social thing to them, especially since a couple are black and one is of indian background. Just try not to be so extreme (though this is England I'm talking about.)

If you really want to piss off a bonehead (racist skin) talk to them about the Rude Boy roots of Skinhead. Always good for a laugh.
 

Sikratua

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Commissar Sae said:
Fascism is viewed as extreme right wing. The Nazis were socialists in nothing but name. Some of the techniques between Fascism and Bolshevism are similar but the major difference shows up when you take their views on people in. Fascism is about ultimate Inequality between people, covering everything from economic to race, while communism/bolshevism is about ultimate equality between people. Things never work out quite that well in the real world but that is really the divide.
You could not possibly be more wrong about what Facism actually is. It has nothing to do with "Inequality." In a Facist regime, all people, outside the government itself, are equal. They are equally worthless and expendable to the whims and desires of an all-encompassing government. To a Facist,the government is all that matters, and that government takes everything. How is that "right-wing," to anyone outside of the Frankfurt School?

Now that I put an extra second and a half of thought into it, that description of Facism does sound an awful lot like Communism/Bolshevism, don't it?

ShadowsofHope said:
Because the Nazi Party was Socialist like North Korea is a Democratic Republic. If you remember back to your education, the Nazis had no reservations about killing political and ideological opponents, which included proponents of Social Liberalism, Democratic Socialism, Social Libertarians, Communists, and others along the left side of the political spectrum. The Nazis themselves were very much traditionalists and racial purists (to the extreme extent of White Supremacy), and several high ranking members of the SS were devoutly Conservative Religious individuals.
That's a cute line at the beginning. Can I use that?

But, that said, you're leaving out a shiut-ton and a quarter from the list of people whom the Nazis targetted with their political killings. They also targetted anyone who believed that the government had no place being as large as Hitler wanted it to be. (Those would be people on the right side of the aisle, by the way.) The fact that a self-described socialist went out of his way to kill any and all political enemies doesn't place him in the right wing.

As far as "Racial Purists" are concerned, well, this is a good time to show a film strip to the class. So, circle your desks, kids, and watch, cause our guest speaker, Mr. Alfonzo Rachel, is going to educate you guys on some of the history of the Ku Klux Klan.


You see, children, the Ku Klux Klan, and, well, EVERY racial seperatist group in American History, has been consistantly left-wing. And, if you were to actually read the book "Mein Kamph," (Which was probably the worst book I've ever been fored to read, outside of the communist Manifesto. How does ANYONE actually take Karl Marx seriously?) you would see that Hitler drew inspiration from the more seperatist actions of American history, which all stem from the left.

Former Senator Robert Byrd was a devout Christian, also. That didn't stop him from attaining multiple high ranks in the KKK. The point of that is, how a person treats their relationship with their perception of God has very little, if anything at all, to do with how a erson will treat other people. I really hope I covered everything that I wanted to cover on this one. But, I'm tired, and don't have the energy to post here again tonight.
 

marcus75

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Sikratua said:
You could not possibly be more wrong about what Facism actually is. It has nothing to do with "Inequality." In a Facist regime, all people, outside the government itself, are equal. They are equally worthless and expendable to the whims and desires of an all-encompassing government. To a Facist,the government is all that matters, and that government takes everything. How is that "right-wing," to anyone outside of the Frankfurt School?

Now that I put an extra second and a half of thought into it, that description of Facism does sound an awful lot like Communism/Bolshevism, don't it?
Theoretically, the two are opposing social views. In practice, there tends to be more similarity than difference, mostly because socialist/communist systems are wide-open to the kind of abuse of power that fascism openly encourages. The biggest real-world difference between the two is pretense. Communist regimes almost always claim to be populist (and Marx's theories are genuinely populist, just highly flawed) regardless of how oppressive they actually are. The fascist regimes of WWII Germany and Italy were unapologetic in their stance that it was the duty of the people to serve the interests of the government.
 

Sikratua

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marcus75 said:
Theoretically, the two are opposing social views. In practice, there tends to be more similarity than difference, mostly because socialist/communist systems are wide-open to the kind of abuse of power that fascism openly encourages. The biggest real-world difference between the two is pretense. Communist regimes almost always claim to be populist (and Marx's theories are genuinely populist, just highly flawed) regardless of how oppressive they actually are. The fascist regimes of WWII Germany and Italy were unapologetic in their stance that it was the duty of the people to serve the interests of the government.
This is where we're going to have to completely disagree. I see nothing about Socialism or Communism that shows any sign about being "for the people," in any way. Don't get me wrong. They claim to be all about the people. But, frankly, every single time Communism or Socialism has ever been attempted in the world, it has eventually failed, largely because every government run on those systems has openly stifled freedom at every turn. Hugo Chavez is a Socialist. Fidel Castro is a Communist. Are you about to actually claim that either of those men have led their countries in ways that would be considered beneficial to the people in their countries? And, do I really need to go down the list?

Am I saying that the extreme far right is any better? Fuck to the no. Going too far, in either direction, is harmful to the population, as a whole. That said, I firmly maintain that moderate to mainstream conservative views are far more sound than anything coming from liberals.
 

killercyclist

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Feb 12, 2011
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reminds me of the idiot kids who would show up at punk shows........... hope the shirts had pull for at least a few people, there is no justification for hating someone based on race, religion, sexuality, gender, or any other thing that you can think of.
 

Halceon

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Andy Chalk said:
250 of the shirts were donated anonymously to the festival by Exit Deutschland, a group dedicated to assisting people seeking to break free of the militant neo-Nazi lifestyle.
Once more. Anonymously donated by Exit Deutschland. Anonymously. By these people. What.