Neo-Nazis Faked Out by Trick T-Shirts

Dusty Fred

New member
Aug 3, 2011
157
0
0
targren said:
Dusty Fred said:
Extremism doesn't necessarily preclude intelligence. Leon Trotsky was a very clever man, to give the first example that springs to mind.
Yes, it does. Don't confuse "radical" or "revolutionary" with "extremist," they're different things. Extremism requires a dogmatic dichotomy, ("Good vs. Bad," "Us vs. Them", etc...) and the complete devotion of one of the extremes (thus the word). Blind adherence to dogma or propaganda is an indicator of weak intelligence.
I take your point about blind adherence to dogma, but the Bolsheviks/communists were extremist, certainly by the reasonable criteria you refer to. Their good/bad dichotomy was working class vs. the borgeoisie/aristocracy. Nazism and Communism differed in subtle shades rather than huge contrasts, it was far-left propaganda that insisted the two were polar opposites and oddly this has become something of accepted truth ever since.

I'm not meaning to start a heated argument here, as I said you make a fair point, I just want to make sure I quash any notions that the far left was/is merely radical and revolutionary and only the far right goes all the way to extremism. Not that I'm accusing you of making that case. Just saying.
 

targren

New member
May 13, 2009
1,314
0
0
Dusty Fred said:
I take your point about blind adherence to dogma, but the Bolsheviks/communists were extremist, certainly by the reasonable criteria you refer to. Their good/bad dichotomy was working class vs. the borgeoisie/aristocracy.
It's not solely the existence of extremes that makes a philosophy "extremist." If it was, every major religion would fall under that heading. And while there may have been (possibly a great many) extremists among the Bolsheviks, it's still fallacious to say that all of them were. Especially since your own example was run halfway across the world because he wasn't 'extreme' enough, before they finally caught up with him and stuck an axe in his head.
 

alandavidson

New member
Jun 21, 2010
961
0
0
El Luck said:
Not all Skinheads are racist, just putting that out there.
A fundamental premise of Skinhead philosophy is White Supremacy. Aiming for the supremacy and domination of ANY race is, well, racist.

OT: That was awesome! I love it!
 

I'mANinja

New member
Aug 4, 2008
160
0
0
Can we just agree that Neo-Nazi's aren't great people?! Why the hell are people arguing here -_-'
 

Sikratua

New member
Apr 11, 2011
183
0
0
Commissar Sae said:
Unless you look at their Racial ideology. Thats were the equality bit comes in. The Idea of the Undermensch is a strictly fascist/nazi iddeology that has nothing to do with socialist views. If everyone outside the government was equal why the Holocaust? Why would there be a radically different treatment of Slavs compared to western POWs? To the Fascists blood determines your worth, so nobody is equal. The only place you have any real crossover wit the Bolsheviks is on the economic spectrum, where granted the two systems were pretty similar. Although The nazis maintained all the ultra-rich company owners while the Bolsheviks did a variety of unpleasant things to them.

Also it would be a mistake to confuse communism (extreme left)with Bolshevism (kind of all over the place). In the ideal Marxist world there is no government and everyone gets along as equals (never going to happen that why its utopian). The Bolsheviks ran roughshod over pretty much everything and everything was controlled by the state, still left wing but not pure communism.
Okay, to begin, your remark about the idea of the "Ubermensch" is complete horseshit. The "Ubermensch" is an ideal that was prevailant in the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. In his works, he spoke of how the greatest people among us justifies the existance of the lowest, since for people like Martin Luther King Jr. to be noteworthy, there must be people for him to rise above. The fact that the Nazi Party bastardized the work of Nietzsche almost 40 years after his death had nothinhg to do with the work itself. You'll notice that the swastika is still used in Hindu culture, for its original purpose. It certainly wasn't the fault of the swastika that the Nazis decided on that symbol, is it?

Why the different treatment? Well, you answered your own question. "To the Facist, blood determines worth." The Holocaust, particularly of the Jews, was based around the German people believing that the German blood which was in the leaders of the party was inherantly better than the blood of others, so they wanted to make the entire country as pure-blooded German as they were. Honestly, this level of social engineering through eugenics is antithetical to the beliefs of the right-wing. So, thanks for further proving my point.

Ghengis John said:
It's funny that you'd allege racists hail from the left. I don't see the swarms of liberals voting to card Mexicans in Arizona or demanding our president's birth certificate. In otherwords, I don't expect you to be reasonable. All things however, change with time. One need look no farther than the career of Strom Thurmand to see how allegiances shift. I'd allege that the character of a bigot is such that they'll follow anyone who validates their irrational anger regardless of our attempts to try to try to fit them into any particular schema of being either separatist or adverse to change.
I never said that all racism hails from the left. I simply pointed to both the Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan, who are actually very similar, and were both left-wing. Your mistake lies in your assumption that I was trying to lump everyone into one of those two groups. Moving on.

On the topic of Arizona, I fail to see why Liberals feel that "Illegal Immigration" is somehow not a crime. It says so in the name. Seriously, what part of the phrase "Illegal Immigration" eludes some people? I'll put this a different way. When I was younger, I worked at a 7-Eleven. People would come up, and buy a pack of smokes. As a precaution, I'd simply card everyone. The only people who ever took offense to this practice were the people under the age of 18. Not one single adult EVER got angry with me about this. Similarly, I've never seen anyone with a green card get angry when they get carded. The only people who get angry when laws are enforced are the people who are breaking the laws.

About Barack Obama's birth certificate, bluntly, the President of the United States is not the "leader" of anyone in this country. He (or she, if that ever happens) is the employee of everyone else in America. If I have to show my birth certificate to sell a pair of shoes or pump someone's gas, why the hell should someone wanting to be President not have to show his?

ShadowsofHope said:
You apparently have yourself utterly convinced that everything and anything from ideologies in human history that has turned out bloody and ineffective is entirely left-wing in origin, and I must say I am sad that you have allowed yourself to come to such a flawed premises. However, it doesn't seem like much of anything with convince you otherwise, so I'll just leave you to it. Good day, sir.
So, because you have no idea how to reply to my comments in a way that would bring about thought, you simply decide to launch a particularly weak ad hominem attack on me, because I disagree with you politically. Frankly, I'm glad that you're done with this topic, because you add nothing to it. Good day, and good riddance.
 

RhombusHatesYou

Surreal Estate Agent
Mar 21, 2010
7,595
1,914
118
Between There and There.
Country
The Wide, Brown One.
alandavidson said:
A fundamental premise of Skinhead philosophy is White Supremacy.
Bullshit. That's what the media and boneheads would like everyone to believe but it's simply not true.

Pride in Yourself. Loyalty to Your Mates. Pride in Your Working Class Roots. Never Back Down from Confrontation. There are fundamental premises of Skinhead philosophy and have been since the late 60s.

Is there a disgusting widespread tainting of that with racism and right wing extremism? Unfortunately, yes. Does it represent a majority of current skins? Depressingly, it probably does... but those of us who hold to the origins of Skin hate what the boneheads and the ignorant media parroting of their bullshit have done. Have there always been racist skinheads? Of course, always a few fucking jokers in the pack... how they became the majority is another thing altogether and ties in with how the extreme-right in the UK in the 70s and 80s were mad for youth recruitment.

I grew up around Skins in the 80s and have been a Skinhead for more than 2 decades now. I've also been a SHARP (SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice) my entire adult life... probably would have been one before then but none of us lads knew about SHARP, we just rucked with boneheads because they were fuckheads and we hated them for it and for calling themselves skins while being goosesteppuing little fucks.
 

Commissar Sae

New member
Nov 13, 2009
983
0
0
Sikratua said:
Commissar Sae said:
Unless you look at their Racial ideology. Thats were the equality bit comes in. The Idea of the Undermensch is a strictly fascist/nazi iddeology that has nothing to do with socialist views. If everyone outside the government was equal why the Holocaust? Why would there be a radically different treatment of Slavs compared to western POWs? To the Fascists blood determines your worth, so nobody is equal. The only place you have any real crossover wit the Bolsheviks is on the economic spectrum, where granted the two systems were pretty similar. Although The nazis maintained all the ultra-rich company owners while the Bolsheviks did a variety of unpleasant things to them.

Also it would be a mistake to confuse communism (extreme left)with Bolshevism (kind of all over the place). In the ideal Marxist world there is no government and everyone gets along as equals (never going to happen that why its utopian). The Bolsheviks ran roughshod over pretty much everything and everything was controlled by the state, still left wing but not pure communism.
Okay, to begin, your remark about the idea of the "Ubermensch" is complete horseshit. The "Ubermensch" is an ideal that was prevailant in the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. In his works, he spoke of how the greatest people among us justifies the existance of the lowest, since for people like Martin Luther King Jr. to be noteworthy, there must be people for him to rise above. The fact that the Nazi Party bastardized the work of Nietzsche almost 40 years after his death had nothinhg to do with the work itself. You'll notice that the swastika is still used in Hindu culture, for its original purpose. It certainly wasn't the fault of the swastika that the Nazis decided on that symbol, is it?

Why the different treatment? Well, you answered your own question. "To the Facist, blood determines worth." The Holocaust, particularly of the Jews, was based around the German people believing that the German blood which was in the leaders of the party was inherantly better than the blood of others, so they wanted to make the entire country as pure-blooded German as they were. Honestly, this level of social engineering through eugenics is antithetical to the beliefs of the right-wing. So, thanks for further proving my point.
Reread my post, I said undermensh, not uber. The idea that some people are inferior due to blood. You know that the left right divide is based on how power is divided right? it has nothing to do with social programs (although they are a prevalent part of the left) its the focus on authoritarian vs. Collectivism. Rule by one person vs. rule by the populous. All the economic and political ideas associated with each side stem from general trends seen in each group. Its not actually small governenment and laissez-faire vs. large government/social control.
 

Communist partisan

New member
Jan 24, 2009
1,858
0
0
Andy Chalk said:
Neo-Nazis Faked Out by Trick T-Shirts


Neo-Nazis in Germany got a morning-after surprise when they discovered that the souvenir t-shirts they were given at a nationalist right-wing concert actually contained a secret, anti-extremism message.

Attendees at a "Rock for Germany" concert probably thought the t-shirts being handed out by festival organizers, emblazoned with a skull, flags and a "hardcore rebel" logo, were seriously hard-ass rockin'. But things changed rather dramatically when the shirts were washed [and yes, it would seem that even skinheads occasionally do laundry]: the gnarly artwork and "National und Frei" disappeared, replaced with a message offering assistance to anyone who wanted to escape the influence of the far right.

"If your t-shirt can do it, you can do it too - we'll help you get away from far-right extremism," the post-washing shirts said.

250 of the shirts were donated anonymously to the festival by Exit Deutschland, a group dedicated to assisting people seeking to break free of the militant neo-Nazi lifestyle. "Rock for Germany" organizers naturally played down the significance of the stunt; Gordon Richter, who's also a member of the far-right NPD party, said, "It's kind of pathetic that anyone spent money for something like that."

But Exit Deutschland founder Bernd Wagner seemed satisfied that the t-shirts had accomplished their purpose of spreading an anti-extremism message to a hostile audience, not to mention the international attention they've attracted to his cause. "We wanted to raise awareness about our program, especially among the young and less committed," he said.

Well played, sir. Well played indeed.

Source: Toronto Sun [http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/10/neo-nazis-tricked-by-t-shirts]


Permalink
Skinheads are not fucking Nazis, racists, commies or anarchist!

Seriously... that destroyed my day together with the epic trolling sucsess against assholes I just read.

The skinheads does even have their roots in Jamaica. And we all know some really fine and pure racial hatred come from country! *sarcasm*
 

Keanotix

New member
Jan 13, 2010
34
0
0
Treblaine said:
I mean easy relative to the burden of staying it is easy.

I'm sorry, I can't accept such a convenient excuse to remain such an active bully.

I think the biggest thing keeping people in neo-nazi groups is their racism and their joy of wielding such power in a large group.
Ok, I forgot the whole power trip psychology behind it, there is also the teenager problem of 'having somewhere you belong', say what you like about emos or goths, least they dont all get together and start beating the crap out of the first minority person they see.

Anyone else reminded of that episode of Law and Order with the neo-nazi teens and the hate preacher guy? I liked that episode.