New "Game" Encourages Secret Police-Style Spying

[dubious_wolf]

well initially i don't really see the problem, people watch live feeds report suspicious activity for a chance at getting cash. Seems good "in theory" but this for me is where the shit hits the fan... I don't know how video on these CCTV cameras was previously uploaded, saved, reviewed etc, but anything placed on the internet is made accessible to people with the knowledge time and resources to hack and use for their personal gain or benefit. (a certain group of people on a certain website deemed the "underbelly of the internet" comes to mind.) so essentially we have given 4.5 million CCTV cameras to this "certain" group of people...

my second qualm is in the interest of the camera owners. let's say as a small business owner you have a CCTV camera installed. I assume that in order for your camera to be placed within the this service, you as a camera holder have to pay something, Internet Eyes then randomly distributes your camera feed to the people that have signed up, so the time of the day your camera is monitored and the amount of time it is monitored is completely random.thus you have payed for a service that may or may not get delivered...
congratulations you have just been cheated Mr. Small Business Owner.

edit: one last comment, what is defined as "public" and private?

 

[Pimppeter2]

So this is like porn for people who failed in the Police academy?

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Was there a government-engineered plague I haven't heard about yet, to necessitate such monitoring? Countdown to Fingermen and a chancellor starts now.

Also, if they are successful I can see this type of "game" being implemented in the US - patrolling the Mexican border. Countdown to poopsocking racists begins now.

I'll ready myself for government experimentation and assuming I survive, I will need my mask.

 

[bodyklok]

This is, interesting, I've nothing against CCTV in high crime areas and town centres where there's a lot of Saturday night drinking.

But I'd never thought of this, it's odd. I assume it'll fall down in the initial stages; I can't think of even the most understaffed police force resorting to this, so I think the project will run out of money before long.

I don't really have any issue with this it's self, the clam that people could use them to stalk people they know seems ludicrous to me, things like

Even then, consider the possibility of a group of people watching with a purpose in mind. Even if the cameras are random, a third party site (like a WoW guild, for example) could post a photo of a "suspect" for people to look for, offering additional money or some other reward. Chances of finding that person doing something suspicious then increase to more realistic probabilities.

this^ sound a lot like the stuff I hear tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist saying. Given the sheer number of cameras in the UK, and the number of people in it (it's like what, 61 million now?), even a group of people as large as all of WOW, and an equal amount of free time, would be inconceivably lucky to find ONE specific person.

All in all though, I don't think this is a good idea, simply because it looks like it'll fall flat on it's face. CCTV controllers, normally, aren't stupid, i.e. they know when and where crimes (e.g. violent disputes on the street) are going to be committed: Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night around areas where there's heavy drinking, I don't even think we need them anywhere else (bar maybe road crossings) because during the day there people every where!

As for the clams that, due to this, the UK is becoming a Orwellian Security state, we're no more watched by Big Brother than we ever were, the difference is now Big Brother's you or me, that is, RANDOM PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET!

But yeah, just to re-illiterate, project will probably fall on its face, the money could be spent on PREVENTING crimes by putting more officers on the street or giving them better equipment, and I doubt that people could use this to hunt down their ex--this doesn't even cover the whole UK anyway.

 

[Robert632]

well it might be a little more productive then all the other online games. at least you can make a little money wasting away in front of a computer moniter.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't really have any issue with this it's self, the clam that people could use them to stalk people they know seems ludicrous to me, things like

Even then, consider the possibility of a group of people watching with a purpose in mind. Even if the cameras are random, a third party site (like a WoW guild, for example) could post a photo of a "suspect" for people to look for, offering additional money or some other reward. Chances of finding that person doing something suspicious then increase to more realistic probabilities.

this^ sound a lot like the stuff I hear tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist saying. Given the sheer number of cameras in the UK, and the number of people in it (it's like what, 61 million now?), even a group of people as large as all of WOW, and an equal amount of free time, would be inconceivably lucky to find ONE specific person.

In practice, CCTV is certainly to be used as you describe - experienced operators monitoring the troubled areas. However, CCTV operators are not the general public - they can get fired for flying in the face of sensibility. I may offer a more foil hat type of argument against making CCTV available to the general public, but with good intention. In the US, people have died - died - because of unscrupulous usage of public information services like MySpace (I'm still digging for the article).

Also, let's not forget the rampant idiocy found in every single MMO ever. Gold farming isn't exactly illegal, but it can certainly ruin the game for some people. Take that mindset into the world of CCTV, and it isn't nearly as much of a stretch to say a dedicated team of 20 can't find a few faces by switching rapidly between random cameras. Exploitation isn't conspiracy, it's exploitation.

 

[Kuala BangoDango]

This is a fairly long post, so impatient readers may wanna skip to the parts below the line to read my main point.

It's clear to me now that what Western society really needs is a half-dozen or so decades spent in a total anarchistic system with no governmental law enforcement, so that afterward, when somebody suggests using widespread video surveillance to crack down on crime, we won't have a bunch of people making stupid fucking claims about it being a bad idea.

So tell me then, where was all the crime and anarchy BEFORE CCTV cameras were even invented? As far as I know, the U.K. was a relatively safe place even before the cameras came around. There is a lot of evidence that massive amounts of spying on your neighbors and reporting them for even minor offenses leads to non-free totalitarian societies, but where is the evidence that having these systems dramatically reduces crime? In fact often we see that having cameras around has little to no effect on crime reduction (my opinion).

I'm constantly seeing footage in the news of gas stations/convenience stores being robbed, banks being held up, and stores being shoplifted and EVERYONE knows those places have cameras. Or how about all those riots caught on film after a big sports event or famous trial where people are injured and property destroyed. There are usually hundreds of people rioting in the streets with dozens of easily seen and recognize-able faces causing havoc, and later on you only hear of maybe 5 or 6 people being arrested.

Here in the U.S. recently there was a murder of a kid in Chicago, caught on cell phone video. A gang of kids were beating on this other kid who didn't wanna join their gang and there were dozens of witnesses and bystanders standing around not doing anything to stop it...but they sure were interested enough in it to bust out their phone and record it.

Maybe it's just in the U.S. and our celebrity obsessed culture, but we as a society seem to be much more interested nowadays in recording bad events that occur on camera rather than preventing them. Perhaps it's our desire for our 15 minutes of fame.

The problem with use of CCTV to prevent crime is that it probably only prevents casual, spur-of-the-moment crime. People who really want to commit the crime will find some way around the cameras such as wearing masks or breaking the cameras. Anyone else is usually too drugged up, drunk, or stupid to care.

-----------------------

Anyway, for those of you still reading, here are some points I'd like to bring up, directly from the website of this company.

"Only the first alert received by the camera owner is accepted."
"At the end of each month the highest scoring Viewer will receive the reward money; this could be split in the event of a tie."
"Viewers register for free with no recurring fees. Each Viewer has 3 x alerts per month allocated to their account for free. Viewers are able to 'top up' their alerts through PayPal if they so desire."

***So, no matter how many hours you put in watching these cameras you can only report 3 possible crimes per month and you get no credit if someone else watching the same footage beats you to the punch. If you want to report more than 3 crimes YOU have to PAY THEM to report more, and ONLY ONE PERSON WINS ANY MONEY (except for the ties). This means the more people there are participating in this "game" the less chance you have to win. And worst of all, if you're a free viewer there is no way you're gonna win if there are other viewers out there paying money to be able to report more crimes per month since the more reports you put out the more points you earn--->those who pay win (well, one of them anyway). It's not a game, rather it's very nearly a scam in my eyes.

YOU ARE WORKING FOR INTERNET EYES FOR FREE!!! IN FACT YOU PAY THEM TO WORK FOR THEM!!!!!

For the businesses/owners of the camera:

"By utilising Internet Eyes our Viewers will monitor your live camera feeds and instantly alert the camera owner / operator when a suspected crime is committed.Your OCTV system is monitored live, rather than when it's too late. Receive instant alerts in real-time, camera specific, with an image screen grab directly to your Customer Control Panel."

***So, how does Internet Eyes guarantee anyone is even watching the cameras of their customers? If they have 100 customers with 1,000 cameras, but only have 50 viewers watching 50 cameras, aren't the customers paying for service not rendered? Or do you have to randomly cycle through camera views every few seconds to cover them all (meaning less chance to actually detect a crime).

Not only this, but the business/owner still has to have someone permanently hired and stationed at their own computer to respond to these alerts when the viewers send them if the alerts are to even be useful in stopping a crime in progress. If they've got someone permanently hired to monitor incoming alerts from viewers, why can't that person just monitor their cameras themselves since they're sitting there anyway?

These are my thoughts.

 

[Treblaine]

Really all we need to do on the Mexican border is put up a shock fence...

Acually thats illlegal but really all we need to do is put up one giant flat wall (not a fence) and slant it at a 45 degree angle twords Mexico, they can't climb it.

O.T. If i lived in Europe then I'd definatly join that thing, but if the above post isnt clear, im a US citizen... sadly.

<youtube=8y13DzxfrjY>
@4:00

My point being that building a fence does nothing to stop anyone from crossing the border. (A wall would only take slightly more time to get through.) If immigration were really as much of a problem as it is made out to be, a system of cameras and a big brother monitoring system would be far more effective, and cheaper to boot.

That said, let's not make this a thread about the Mexican border, please.

WIN! Especially the boobies at the end. It nails it on the head perfectly that immigration is precisely BECAUSE America is so great and America is so great BECAUSE OF mass immigration! It's manifest destiny, it can't be stopped and who would want to stop it?

PS: I am ashamed this CCTV spying thing originated from my own country. ASHAMED!

 

[slyywiskers]

i dont think it is a good idear to have the cameras in peoples homes but on the street its fine.

 

[bodyklok]

I don't really have any issue with this it's self, the clam that people could use them to stalk people they know seems ludicrous to me, things like

Even then, consider the possibility of a group of people watching with a purpose in mind. Even if the cameras are random, a third party site (like a WoW guild, for example) could post a photo of a "suspect" for people to look for, offering additional money or some other reward. Chances of finding that person doing something suspicious then increase to more realistic probabilities.

this^ sound a lot like the stuff I hear tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist saying. Given the sheer number of cameras in the UK, and the number of people in it (it's like what, 61 million now?), even a group of people as large as all of WOW, and an equal amount of free time, would be inconceivably lucky to find ONE specific person.

In practice, CCTV is certainly to be used as you describe - experienced operators monitoring the troubled areas. However, CCTV operators are not the general public - they can get fired for flying in the face of sensibility. I may offer a more foil hat type of argument against making CCTV available to the general public, but with good intention. In the US, people have died - died - because of unscrupulous usage of public information services like MySpace (I'm still digging for the article).

In advance, is it something to do with suicide?

Also, let's not forget the rampant idiocy found in every single MMO ever. Gold farming isn't exactly illegal, but it can certainly ruin the game for some people. Take that mindset into the world of CCTV, and it isn't nearly as much of a stretch to say a dedicated team of 20 can't find a few faces by switching rapidly between random cameras. Exploitation isn't conspiracy, it's exploitation.

While I still accept this as a valid chritisisum, I'd liken it to clams that the LHC would create black holes to kill us all--theoretically possible, but incredible unlikely. CCTV cameras can barely distinguish peoples faces anyway, at least when they're on the other side of the road.

But like I said before, I think this will ultimately fail; I just can't see that many police chiefs or store owners (except the most gullible) doing this.

I'm interested to see how it could work out though, the last time I heard of a massive scale operation to use the public to spy on each other was in Stalinist Russia--it'll be interesting to see what British people start doing (that last paragraph was semi joking).

 

[Tony Harrison]

Couple of points. This is not something being proposed or used by the state. It's a private company using feeds from other private companies. Does the law of the country allow it? I don't think so, this would be in breach of the data protection act. Maybe they feel they've found a loop-hole but I can't see them getting away with it.

It's interesting to see how well established the statistic that there are 4.2 million cameras is in the media. An estimate arrived at through questionable means over 7 years ago and still used with confidence whenever there's a story on CCTV.

Also, what's this?: "Source: Daily Mail".

 

[Jadak]

Typical event notifications include

* Shop lifting
* Anti social behaviour
* Burglary
* Vandalism

Anti social behavior? Really?

 

[chris11246]

One example follows:

I might just start up a betting pool to see how long it is before it's become known as the second best stalker's tool right after IP locators. They might well state that none of the CCTV cameras will have their location noted to the public, but with Google Earth, a map, and a good knowledge of the urban areas it wouldn't be difficult to work it out.

Leaving the thousands of CCTV's as access to the regular public makes for a gross opportunity for abuse. You could literally follow someone you did not like on there, and then call in every suspicious thing about them, harassing them like crazy and wasting the law enforcement's time and resources. I don't see this service lasting very long when the UK starts charging that service for every single false alarm that gets called in, and for every complaint of harassment. People have better things to be doing for their countries than wasting 4-6 hours a day sitting in front of their screen watching and hoping for the smallest excuse to call something in.
What really flusters me is that this is being implemented in the same country that a great many citizens protest Google Earth from coming down their streets because it violates their privacy. Yeah, this is a great example of a Double Standard.
On the upside, people will also be using the service to know what CCTV's are near their home and workplace. Cue destruction of property in 5..4..3..2..

Why not make it so that people cant view cameras from their area, not by what they say but use their ip address to figure out they're location, and they cant choose which area they view. Also you could make it so that anyone who posts videos off the site can be banned from it so that people cant access every camera or use them to follow people or watch for people.(if someone posts a video you could tell by looking at the time and place of the video and checking who was watching that camera.)

Also, let's not forget the rampant idiocy found in every single MMO ever. Gold farming isn't exactly illegal, but it can certainly ruin the game for some people. Take that mindset into the world of CCTV, and it isn't nearly as much of a stretch to say a dedicated team of 20 can't find a few faces by switching rapidly between random cameras. Exploitation isn't conspiracy, it's exploitation.

Why not just make it so that a person cant keep switching cameras. Like when you keep trying random passwords to hack an account you will get locked out, they could just do that.

 

[DamienHell]

If they were PAYING me I'd do it, but why would I do it for free?

 

[Fuhjem]

For some reason this reminds me of Untraceable.

 

[Kriptonite]

....Does anyone else find this very creepy??

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Not even Orwell could dream this shit up.

 

[inglioti]

slightly scary, but it is crime being reported after all. it's not as if spying on people on public property is an invasion of privacy, as they are out in the open.

 

[Flos]

That just creeps me out. I don't like being watched and I'm a genuinely crimeless person. I like my privacy. I dislike the idea of someone being able to catch me at an unflattering angle, screencap it, and spread it over the Internet. I do not want to be an lolcat. At least with security companies I can be marginally secure. I'm suppose to trust thousands of random Internet strangers?

Sounds like it's time to sneak around Solid Snake style.

Typical event notifications include

* Shop lifting
* Anti social behaviour
* Burglary
* Vandalism

Anti social behavior? Really?

We gotta get those emos off the street, bro.

 

[WolfMage]

Heh, this made me giggle. Why?
Think of it this way:
Remember the guards in Oblivion? Sure, everybody does, you say, a glimmer of a faded memory in your eye.
Recall then, the hivemind they had, how no matter where you went, they knew you fucked up, and would shout at you like an iron-clad Billy Mays of justice.
This will be Britain; Large men screaming at you because you brushed against someone, and that means you've assaulted them, or you spilled a drink, now that's damaging public property. And so on...
And yeah, if this goes worldwide, I'm signing up.
But I'll only ever report a real, worth stopping crime, like rape, murder, or a hip hop dance battle in the streets.
Y'know, bad shit.
And as for arson, brawls, and muggings?
I'll be laughing at the arson (Yes, bad me.), betting on the fight (Really now, who wouldn't?), and if the person (Getting mugged.) looks "in the money", then I didn't see shit, captain. Now, if the mugger starts beating on them, reported, but I'm still gonna place a bet. Or hope the muggee shoots/stabs the ************. That's classic funny, there.