New Halo 5: Guardians Details, Trailers Revealed - Update

An Ceannaire

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Mar 5, 2012
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Dalek Caan said:
And while the UNSC might support the Chief I think ONI have their own plans so that's why they are currently hunting him down. I knew those Spooks could never be trusted.
ONI only started hunting the Chief when he went AWOL, but Spartan Locke isn't ostensibly associated with ONI any more, so it would appear that the UNSC/Spartan Branch has been tasked with bringing the Chief home. That said, I don't doubt in the slightest that ONI is orchestrating the hunt and I'm skeptical as to whether Locke has cut ties with ONI at all. Nor is he the only member of his team with links to ONI in their pasts.

However, in a general sense, I believe that ONI views the Master Chief as a liability in the post-war environment. They can't control him, whereas with the Spartan IVs there is the capacity to do that. The MC also only sees things in black and white, where as ONI deals in shades of grey - there's an ideological difference from the get-go.
 

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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An Ceannaire said:
That's irrelevant though. Jul considers his faction to be the continuation of Covenant and most of the Elites and UNSC refer to his group as such.
I'm failing to understand what you mean about all of this being illogical.
The next step left off before the new Canon came in was finishing off the Loyalists. Instead they just came up with a faction of idiots who apparently did not learn a single thing from Halo 2 and 3, both in their reverence for the Forerunners and in their loyalty to the Covenant. I know Elites were never bright, but they weren't illogically stupid.

The Didact is just a living fail, as well, but I suppose that's what happens when you base characters off of vague text in background information terminals.

What's wrong with what happened to the Elites?
Not much (Covenant Remnants aside and I guess that terminal with the Heretic Leader). I'm more thinking the Forerunners (mostly because of the Didact/Prometheans/Not-a-Ghost Librarian), the Humans and the Prophets in those books they made. Also the Flood which is interesting, but just a bit bewildering (especially the apparent cure that conveniently gets wrapped up and forgotten about).

The entire Human Prophet alliance thing that conveniently gets wrapped up because of what is probably forced amnesia is just needless. It doesn't really add much to the story, apart from maybe telling us why the Prometheans exist, and they don't need to exist given that they just fill the role of the Flood from previous games.

That's what their writing feels like to me. They're filling in gaps, but writing in such a way as to not impact the (original) games in any way so as to make them irrelevant. When they write stuff that takes place after Halo 3, it seems to be with the sole intention of shitting on what was there before. I feel like even Halo Wars managed to be more faithful to the franchise and it's a self-contained, pointless story.
 

An Ceannaire

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Evonisia said:
The next step left off before the new Canon came in was finishing off the Loyalists.
But the Jul's faction is composed of many of those Covenant Loyalists, so in essence the UNSC is finishing off the Loyalists.

Instead they just came up with a faction of idiots who apparently did not learn a single thing from Halo 2 and 3, both in their reverence for the Forerunners and in their loyalty to the Covenant. I know Elites were never bright, but they weren't illogically stupid.
You're failing to understand Jul's motivations and his capacity as a leader. Jul learnt a lot from his time fighting humanity, and even as leader of the largest Covenant remnant he knows he has no chance of beating humanity conventionally (especially while they remain allied with the Arbiter's forces). That's why - through a combination of very good and very bad luck - Jul ended up pursuing the Forerunners in order to acquire the means of defeating his foes. There's good reason to believe that Jul doesn't even worship the Forerunners any more. He respects them, but unlike most of the Loyalists in his forces, he doesn't consider them Gods. That said, to retain the support of the zealots and religious nuts in his forces, he probably pretends he does.

The Didact is just a living fail, as well, but I suppose that's what happens when you base characters off of vague text in background information terminals.
While I agree that the Didact is a weak Villain, I don't expect to see much of him in Halo 5. He's still a potent thread, but the Halo Escalation comics have pushed him to the background now.


Not much (Covenant Remnants aside and I guess that terminal with the Heretic Leader).
What was wrong with the terminals?

That's what their writing feels like to me. They're filling in gaps, but writing in such a way as to not impact the (original) games in any way so as to make them irrelevant. When they write stuff that takes place after Halo 3, it seems to be with the sole intention of shitting on what was there before. I feel like even Halo Wars managed to be more faithful to the franchise and it's a self-contained, pointless story.
Well, I don't think any Halo media since 343i took over the franchise has intentionally shit on the original trilogy. But Bungie shouldn't be held up as the paragons of storytelling. They left huge holes and contradictions in their canon, and Halo 3's ending left very little room for 343i to do much within the confines of the existing lore. It was a case of go big or go home. 343i went big, and while I'll readily admit that I disagree with some of the things they have introduced to the Halo universe, overall I'm glad that a company with genuine interest in telling a story embedded in a rich and complex universe is at the helm of Halo today.

Also, there's a good chance the Spirit of Fire will become relevant again in the Halo lore soon.
 

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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An Ceannaire said:
You're failing to understand Jul's motivations and his capacity as a leader. Jul learnt a lot from his time fighting humanity, and even as leader of the largest Covenant remnant he knows he has no chance of beating humanity conventionally (especially while they remain allied with the Arbiter's forces). That's why - through a combination of very good and very bad luck - Jul ended up pursuing the Forerunners in order to acquire the means of defeating his foes. There's good reason to believe that Jul doesn't even worship the Forerunners any more. He respects them, but unlike most of the Loyalists in his forces, he doesn't consider them Gods. That said, to retain the support of the zealots and religious nuts in his forces, he probably pretends he does.
So in essence, the faction consists of idiots being lead by a person who's betting his life on the chance that the Forerunners aren't going to cast him aside. Frankly, I don't know much about Jul at all, because he's not in Halo 4 and I'll be damned if I go too deep in to detail with their stories, but my issue is that the general soldiers worship The Didact despite Halo 2 and Halo 3 hammering that Forerunner technology leads to the umpteenth Flood outbreak or it leads to your destruction, as it lead to the Forerunner's own destruction. I take issue with them wanting to associate themselves with the faction that betrayed them in their own lifetime (like, less than 15 years ago at this point?)

What was wrong with the terminals?
They manage to be more mechanical and expository than the text based ones from Halo 3. The Heretic Leader becomes just a shell of what he was in Halo 2 (and he was shallow as a puddle as a character anyway). They're hollow, and frankly some of them take away from the games they've been put in to. 343 Guilty Spark sending a message to the Pillar of Autumn seems interesting for instance, but that opens up many questions as to why nobody tried contacting him before he just finds the Chief at the Flood research facility. It made sense in the original game, because nobody had seen him before he finds the Chief.

Well, I don't think any Halo media since 343i took over the franchise has intentionally shit on the original trilogy. But Bungie shouldn't be held up as the paragons of storytelling. They left huge holes and contradictions in their canon, and Halo 3's ending left very little room for 343i to do much within the confines of the existing lore. It was a case of go big or go home. 343i went big, and while I'll readily admit that I disagree with some of the things they have introduced to the Halo universe, overall I'm glad that a company with genuine interest in telling a story embedded in a rich and complex universe is at the helm of Halo today.

Also, there's a good chance the Spirit of Fire will become relevant again in the Halo lore soon.
I don't hold Bungie in some majorly high regard for storytelling. All of the Halo games and most of the books they monitored have relatively simple stories (probably because they're not sure how to do a greatly character driven story or something). That's why so much was left in intrigue. Where Bungie excelled was the small lines and bits here and there. Casually mentioning that Mercy counselled Truth to spare Regret, or the somewhat saddening description of the battle between Offensive and Mendicant Bias as the occupiers of the fleet died during the Halo firing were both nice, small things added to flesh out something so bare bones.

I certainly hold Bungie higher than the creature that was cut off from them, though. A group of fans who for the most part have been spending their time padding out aspects of the universe that didn't need expanding on[footnote]For clarification, I think Origins which IIRC was unrelated to 343 was also over explanation of what we didn't need to know.[/footnote]. If Bungie couldn't handle a big universe, their underlings certainly can't. If the case was for them to go big or go home, I think 343 failed. Instead of making the potential universe more rich, they overstuffed it with pointless information and twists, and then later filled the post original canon full of stuff that's over reliant on the books.

I certainly hope the Spirit of Fire doesn't come back. I know it was left purposely ambiguous in Halo Wars, but it will feel way too convenient that the Spirit of Fire is only rediscovered after everyone already knows the valuable information they obtained.
 

silver wolf009

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Jan 23, 2010
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So was I just not paying attention, didn't they get trapped in that bomb shelter? How did Blue team escape hammerspace again?