New York AG Aiming to Dissolve NRA

[thebobmaster]

New York AG seeks to shut down NRA in lawsuit alleging financial crimes

James' lawsuit against the NRA is the culmination of an investigation into the gun rights group that began in early 2019.

www.cbsnews.com

As the article states, the Attorney General of New York, Letitia James, has filed suit with the goal of dissolving the National Rifle Association, or NRA. Rather than anything involving the Second Amendment, however, the reason for this lawsuit is financial.

According to the suit, the top officials of the NRA diverted millions of dollars for personal use, as well as utilizing good old fashioned nepotism when awarding contracts by enriching close families and friends.

To quote James herself, "The NRA's influence has been so powerful that the organization went unchecked for decades while top executives funneled millions into their own pockets. The NRA is fraught with fraud and abuse, which is why, today, we seek to dissolve the NRA, because no organization is above the law."


Personally, while I would like for this to happen, I am very concerned that the NRA has enough money to buy its way out of any trouble.

 

[meiam]

I was thinking that we haven't heard about NRA in awhile now and then I realize it's because all school in america were closed for the lock down so there wasn't any school shooting.

It would be strange to dissolve the institution rather than just remove the guilty party and letting unimplicated person take charge, no? Also, aren't there a bunch of megachurch that also use donation to fund lavish lifestyle for their head priest and that's totally okay?

tbh I never really understood giving money to these kinds of organisation, so I sorta don't see what the problem is. It's not like your buying a service, you're giving the money away, what the recipient does with it is entirely up to them. Like, couldn't they just claim all that money was just part of their salary?

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Yeah, hope upon hope some action like this can actually hurt that shitty organisation. But they have a lot of money, influence and zero morals, so not holding breath. Letitia got support from this pitifully insignificant woodland creature at least.

 

[thebobmaster]

I was thinking that we haven't heard about NRA in awhile now and then I realize it's because all school in america were closed for the lock down so there wasn't any school shooting.

It would be strange to dissolve the institution rather than just remove the guilty party and letting unimplicated person take charge, no? Also, aren't there a bunch of megachurch that also use donation to fund lavish lifestyle for their head priest and that's totally okay?

tbh I never really understood giving money to these kinds of organisation, so I sorta don't see what the problem is. It's not like your buying a service, you're giving the money away, what the recipient does with it is entirely up to them. Like, couldn't they just claim all that money was just part of their salary?

I think the argument for fully dissolving the entire NRA is that, given how long the corruption and fraud has been going on, the organization as a whole is considered corrupt, not just a few individuals in that organization.

As for the second part, even companies that are privately owned have limits as to what can be done with them. Embezzlement, for example. The NRA accepts the money on the unspoken condition that they'll use that money to further the cause, rather than pay for a Learjet to fly to a tropical island retreat.

 

[Buyetyen]

Personally, while I would like for this to happen, I am very concerned that the NRA has enough money to buy its way out of any trouble.

Depends on whether or not Wayne La Pierre already embezzled that cash. The NRA have actually been having money problems for several years now, partly because their public image is as merchants of death and violence and also because of the aforementioned embezzling.

 

[thebobmaster]

Depends on whether or not Wayne La Pierre already embezzled that cash. The NRA have actually been having money problems for several years now, partly because their public image is as merchants of death and violence and also because of the aforementioned embezzling.

You have a point there. Something I glanced over in the article, but forgot to mention, is that over the last three years, the NRA has reported a total loss of $65 million, so maybe they actually won't have the money to fight this. Knock on wood.

 

[Buyetyen]

You have a point there. Something I glanced over in the article, but forgot to mention, is that over the last three years, the NRA has reported a total loss of $65 million, so maybe they actually won't have the money to fight this. Knock on wood.

They have money to fight, just not as much as they used to. Lengthy legal battles ending in out-of-court settlement may not be feasible anymore given their current budget. It's still going to be a slog for the AG, but this is a time when the NRA is more vulnerable than they've been in decades.

 

[SilentPony]

I mean they're a bunch of white supremacist fascists enablers under the guise of a gun club. And they're more than likely a front for the Russian mob money laundering.
So I won't lose any sleep over them.

 

[Agema]

To quote James herself, "The NRA's influence has been so powerful that the organization went unchecked for decades while top executives funneled millions into their own pockets. The NRA is fraught with fraud and abuse, which is why, today, we seek to dissolve the NRA, because no organization is above the law."

I'm always happy to see fraud dealt with.

However, in terms of dissolving it:

1) That's making a whole lot more hostility and enemies than advisable. It's easy to portray as an attack on American gun ownership rights.
2) It's excessive. Fraud in an organisation does not require its dissolution unless it's fundamentally, institutionally corrupt
3) Even if dissolved, the very next day its replacement will be ready and waiting to continue. And mad, and looking for revenge.

 

[Palindromemordnilap]

I'm always happy to see fraud dealt with.

However, in terms of dissolving it:

1) That's making a whole lot more hostility and enemies than advisable. It's easy to portray as an attack on American gun ownership rights.
2) It's excessive. Fraud in an organisation does not require its dissolution unless it's fundamentally, institutionally corrupt
3) Even if dissolved, the very next day its replacement will be ready and waiting to continue. And mad, and looking for revenge.

On the subject of number 3, do you think there will end up being one replacement, or several? If it scatters into various smaller gun clubs they'd seem unlikely to wield the same power the NRA currently does (or seems to)

 

[ObsidianJones]

On the subject of number 3, do you think there will end up being one replacement, or several? If it scatters into various smaller gun clubs they'd seem unlikely to wield the same power the NRA currently does (or seems to)

Wholeheartedly.

While I am a firearm owner myself, I felt no need to join the NRA because their politics are not my own. And their politics tend to run more with the Republican Party ideals.

The Republicans have seen a lot of strength just be stubbornly banding together. It's why some conservatives love it when Democrats, independents, and Progressives fight amongst each other. If we're not unified and they are, they come out on top.

Think about it. The majority of America is either Democrats or Independents with Left Leanings. But the left has so many different ways it wants to branch out towards, or so many issues that they feel takes the most pressing spot that they can never agree on what to do next.

Republicans just need to stay the course. And that inertia alone has granted them a lot of power. The NRA, while along side them through the apexes and valleys of the Republican Political Power frequency, would be fools to not try to band together again to usurp power again.

Hell, this could be the best thing that ever happened for the NRA. Slap a Latina President for the new organization and then you'll get more minorities and women than ever before. Assure those in the old guard that this is just a method to get more votes for the cause and you'll have a political party from the corpse of the NRA the likes of which they would have never achieved keeping to their old image.

 

[SupahEwok]

Hell, this could be the best thing that ever happened for the NRA. Slap a Latina President for the new organization and then you'll get more minorities and women than ever before. Assure those in the old guard that this is just a method to get more votes for the cause and you'll have a political party from the corpse of the NRA the likes of which they would have never achieved keeping to their old image.

Or enough dirty dealing comes to light that the community is fractured and people start preferring local gun clubs. There's really no way to know how it'll fall, but I think it's unlikely that gun rights advocates will be able to concentrate the same amount of power again immediately, there'll be a few years where multiple players try to consolidate the movement around themselves at least.

 

[ObsidianJones]

Or enough dirty dealing comes to light that the community is fractured and people start preferring local gun clubs. There's really no way to know how it'll fall, but I think it's unlikely that gun rights advocates will be able to concentrate the same amount of power again immediately, there'll be a few years where multiple players try to consolidate the movement around themselves at least.

You're forgetting the cult mentality these groups have.

How many times did we say that about Trump? He's the real Teflon Don.

Hell, we've seen that the NRA has been in bed with Russia for a bit. Even with Covid-19, the jobs, rallies, and salaries might be cut, but the actual members are still there, proud.

 

[Palindromemordnilap]

You're forgetting the cult mentality these groups have.

How many times did we say that about Trump? He's the real Teflon Don.

Hell, we've seen that the NRA has been in bed with Russia for a bit. Even with Covid-19, the jobs, rallies, and salaries might be cut, but the actual members are still there, proud.

See, I can only observe from across the pond so my practical knowledge of the NRA is limited, but from what I know it started off as actually kind of...practical, if maybe well meaning is not the word, before a lot of more forceful personalities instigated something of a takeover and it become the more profit-driven organisation it is currently. With the cult mentality in mind, would the various individuals currently at the helm of the NRA not all try to start up their own little clubs if the NRA were to be dissolved? Each one wanting to be their own little feudal lord?

 

[ObsidianJones]

See, I can only observe from across the pond so my practical knowledge of the NRA is limited, but from what I know it started off as actually kind of...practical, if maybe well meaning is not the word, before a lot of more forceful personalities instigated something of a takeover and it become the more profit-driven organisation it is currently. With the cult mentality in mind, would the various individuals currently at the helm of the NRA not all try to start up their own little clubs if the NRA were to be dissolved? Each one wanting to be their own little feudal lord?

That's why I brought up the Republicans.

All they need to see is the constant sniping (Puns, I've got them) that the Democrats, the Progressives and maybe some of the Independents have done at the heels of the NRA, and realize the unbroken wall of staunch republicans constantly stemmed that tide. Even if the Democrats, Progressives and some of the independents have more numbers, and logically should have been able to do more about it. Republicans who are like 21% of the political power of this country, are more concerned about their individual rights that they will join a collective and pay untold amounts of money to make it work in their favor. Dems, Pros, and Independents are not that unified to make a dent.

It would be downsizing. It would be like breaking off of the Mafia to start up your own Breaking and Entering crew. The contacts, the political favors, the power of the name? All gone. What took decades to foster. Anyone who would consider trying to start their own individual thing instead of restructuring and maintaining those connections is simply an idiot.

Even being on the lowest levels of the NRA infrastructure would garner them more power than if they were the president of their own 800 member group.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I don’t know much about the NRA, but the organization seems largely superfluous; good riddance, hopefully. Actually, “superfluous” implies a redundancy; the NRA is largely “pointless” outside of the sphere of influence they’ve been afforded for their right-wing, conservative-leaning tendencies, and therefore is unnecessary. Tell me, while they’re protecting our right to bear arms, who’s going to fire the first shot “within their rights” if ever someone feels the government is overreaching?

 

[Agema]

See, I can only observe from across the pond so my practical knowledge of the NRA is limited, but from what I know it started off as actually kind of...practical, if maybe well meaning is not the word, before a lot of more forceful personalities instigated something of a takeover and it become the more profit-driven organisation it is currently. With the cult mentality in mind, would the various individuals currently at the helm of the NRA not all try to start up their own little clubs if the NRA were to be dissolved? Each one wanting to be their own little feudal lord?

My sense of the NRA is that it was essentially a sports club that was hijacked by political activists a few decades ago. It's now not far off an arm of the Republican Party. With that vast increase in money, power and clsoeness to politics, corruption was always going to be a likely result. How much does the NRA president get paid - I'm pretty sure it's millions of dollars. Who's not going to be motivated to fraud when those sort of sums are floating around?

 

[Aegix Drakan]

Ok on one hand, I wanna get the popcorn for this.

On the other hand, I hope everyone involved in the lawsuit has some kind of good security going on, because they likely just pissed off 95% of gun owners, and some percentage of them are full on crazy.

 

[MrCalavera]

Rather than anything involving the Second Amendment, however, the reason for this lawsuit is financial.

Don't worry, it'll be spun into "muh gun rights" issue.

 

[thebobmaster]

Don't worry, it'll be spun into "muh gun rights" issue.

Oh, I'm sure. I was just stepping ahead of it.