New York Hospital to Pause Delivering Babies After Unvaccinated Workers Resign En Masse

Phoenixmgs

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You'd think those working in a hospital would know better than to be anti vax.
Nurses aren't anti-vax.




No, NO NONO NO NO fucken No. The only reason to scrap vaccine mandate plans is because dumb fucks might riot against them, and that isn't a good reason. This shit has gone on long enough, people can't be trusted with their own health let a lone the health of other people so fuck that noise, mandate this shit so we can deal with this stupid disease.

Even if you caught the disease and have immunity from it that way, the vaccine will still boost that immunity. Cause spoilers, if you caught it before the delta variant, you can catch it again. Plus our immune system "forgets" immunities over time for some diseases and this seems to be one where that happens so you can catch it again. Its retarded not to take reasonable steps to lower the odds as much as possible, especially if you are working in the medical field. This people are greedy fucks who don't give a damn about infecting others, just like all the rest of the dumb shits who won't get vaccinated even though they can. You do have better immunity to the disease if you caught it then recovered then if you just got the vaccine, but you have even better immunity to it if you have both.

The story here literally negates your point. Mandates have caused people to not have access to healthcare. The story is not about people rioting. You know what kills far more Americans than covid? Soda pop, where's the mandate that people can't drink pop? Yes, people can't be trusted with their own health, that doesn't mean you get to force it on them. I'm sure you'll say, you can't infect someone else with the pop you drink. Yes, you can. You think kids that grow up in households where the main drink is pop or koolaid or [insert sugary drink] don't have much higher rates of diabetes and heart disease?

No fucking shit you can catch covid again (you can catch anything again an infinite number of times), that doesn't mean you don't have immunity. You can catch chicken pox even with the vaccine, that doesn't mean the vaccine didn't work as you'll get a much milder case of it. And most people testing positive again, doesn't mean a goddamn thing because even if you have perfect immunity to covid and you get exposed, it takes time for your immune system to stop it so if you get tested within that small window before the infection gets taken care of, you'll test positive because the virus is in your body (that's why so many sports players are testing positive after vaccination because they get tested regularly, the average person is not). But so fucking what? You pick up viruses and bacteria all the time that your immune system takes care of that you don't even know about. So what if it's covid or some super common and not deadly thing you never heard of? And guess what getting exposed to covid again also does, BOOSTS YOUR IMMUNITY. If you have enough immunity to protect yourself from covid, why do you need MORE immunity? What studies have shown that covid has waning immunity that won't last years? None that I've ever seen. And SARS-COV-1 (which is very similar to covid) has immunity lasting nearly 20 years now, why would you think covid immunity is already waning that natural or vaccinated immunity won't last years? The obsession with antibody count as the main contributor of immunity is extremely flawed, antibodies are only a small part of immunity. Antibodies will wane from the natural infection or vaccines, that doesn't mean you lost immunity to covid.

I work with nurses just about everyday and they are a pleasure to work with even though their job is pretty tough and most wouldn't want to do it. They are not greedy fucks that don't give a damn about infecting others. They very much care about others and to think nurses transmissing covid at just average levels (let alone above average) of the rest of the population is just ridiculous.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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vaccine mandates seem like they'll only get you to a COVID that works like a deadlier seasonal flu. if you want to extinguish the virus, you have to actually stop it spreading entirely and the vaccine, while helpful in that regard, is manifestly not capable of that by itself even if everyone is vaccinated.

but endemic COVID with a need for new vaccines every so often and possible booster shots and so forth is great for pharmaceutical companies, as are the long-term treatment needs of an ever-expanding population of people experiencing COVID aftereffects. And the vaccines are minimally disruptive to the exploitation of labor. Even still, some vaccine "hesitancy" is actually people who are so overworked that they don't believe they have enough time available to get vaccinated, which ought to be horrifying if you think about it for more than a few seconds.
Look, we have the greatest economic theory ever devised by man. Of course it will implode, explode, and set itself on fire if we so much as give it a case of the hiccups.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
The story here literally negates your point. Mandates have caused people to not have access to healthcare. The story is not about people rioting. You know what kills far more Americans than covid? Soda pop, where's the mandate that people can't drink pop? Yes, people can't be trusted with their own health, that doesn't mean you get to force it on them. I'm sure you'll say, you can't infect someone else with the pop you drink. Yes, you can. You think kids that grow up in households where the main drink is pop or koolaid or [insert sugary drink] don't have much higher rates of diabetes and heart disease?

No fucking shit you can catch covid again (you can catch anything again an infinite number of times), that doesn't mean you don't have immunity. You can catch chicken pox even with the vaccine, that doesn't mean the vaccine didn't work as you'll get a much milder case of it. And most people testing positive again, doesn't mean a goddamn thing because even if you have perfect immunity to covid and you get exposed, it takes time for your immune system to stop it so if you get tested within that small window before the infection gets taken care of, you'll test positive because the virus is in your body (that's why so many sports players are testing positive after vaccination because they get tested regularly, the average person is not). But so fucking what? You pick up viruses and bacteria all the time that your immune system takes care of that you don't even know about. So what if it's covid or some super common and not deadly thing you never heard of? And guess what getting exposed to covid again also does, BOOSTS YOUR IMMUNITY. If you have enough immunity to protect yourself from covid, why do you need MORE immunity? What studies have shown that covid has waning immunity that won't last years? None that I've ever seen. And SARS-COV-1 (which is very similar to covid) has immunity lasting nearly 20 years now, why would you think covid immunity is already waning that natural or vaccinated immunity won't last years? The obsession with antibody count as the main contributor of immunity is extremely flawed, antibodies are only a small part of immunity. Antibodies will wane from the natural infection or vaccines, that doesn't mean you lost immunity to covid.

I work with nurses just about everyday and they are a pleasure to work with even though their job is pretty tough and most wouldn't want to do it. They are not greedy fucks that don't give a damn about infecting others. They very much care about others and to think nurses transmissing covid at just average levels (let alone above average) of the rest of the population is just ridiculous.
No, the story here is some greedy fucks are too greedy for their ability to be typhoid Mary's to get vaccinated and all walked out since they were so greedy they wanted to deny others health care. Just to make a massively stupid point. Your analogy is bad, generally diabetes isn't an infectious disease that can mutate and spread to others. But you sure as shit better believe we should have some type of sugar tax to help reign in how much of that we get in our diets.

I'm just going to ignore this paragraph since its incoherent rambling. Rework if it you want it to make sense.

No one said nurses weren't awesome as a group, just that these particular ones are greedy fuckwits who care more about making a really stupid point then helping people and curbing a pandemic.
 
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Dalisclock

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Look, we have the greatest economic theory ever devised by man. Of course it will implode, explode, and set itself on fire if we so much as give it a case of the hiccups.
Hey, you either believe in Capitalism(the perfect system that it is) or you're a dirty Un-American Commie who hates Children and Christmas and Love.
 

Phoenixmgs

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No, the story here is some greedy fucks are too greedy for their ability to be typhoid Mary's to get vaccinated and all walked out since they were so greedy they wanted to deny others health care. Just to make a massively stupid point. Your analogy is bad, generally diabetes isn't an infectious disease that can mutate and spread to others. But you sure as shit better believe we should have some type of sugar tax to help reign in how much of that we get in our diets.

I'm just going to ignore this paragraph since its incoherent rambling. Rework if it you want it to make sense.

No one said nurses weren't awesome as a group, just that these particular ones are greedy fuckwits who care more about making a really stupid point then helping people and curbing a pandemic.
It's not a massively stupid point, prior infection confers immunity. Guess why we didn't give people born before 1957 the measles vaccine. Do you know what's more stupid than quitting because you place of work can't follow basic scientific principles? Working during a pandemic without proper PPE, which is what nurses were doing. If nurses were greedy they'd quit for more money, which they should because they are underpaid. They aren't greedy, they are tired of getting shit on.

Nurses aren't typhoid Mary's.

Diabetes isn't directly infectious but it is indirectly as I explained. Kids given poor diets by parents lead to such diseases like diabetes and heart disease. Haha, in "Murica, we pay taxes to subsidize and make sugar cheaper (technically HFCS) to increase consumption.

The point of the paragraph is that getting something again when you have immunity doesn't mean anything. Look at all the sports players getting positive tests after vaccination, it doesn't mean it's a "breakthrough" case unless they actually get sick. Your immune system isn't shooting down covid as it enters your nose, it takes some time to take care of it and if you get tested then, you'll test positive. Getting infected again and getting the disease again are 2 different things, the 1st thing doesn't matter, the 2nd one does.
 

Silvanus

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It's not a massively stupid point, prior infection confers immunity.
Then how about they mandate people have either vaccination or a successful antibody test?

If nurses were greedy they'd quit for more money
Almost as if quitting your job results in financial instability and risk! Jesus wept.
 
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bluegate

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Imagine working in the healthcare profession and not grasping modern medicine.

Then again, it doesn't take all that much to become a nurse, seen a lot of generally dumb people work their way through a couple of courses and becoming a nurse.
 

Silvanus

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Then again, it doesn't take all that much to become a nurse, seen a lot of generally dumb people work their way through a couple of courses and becoming a nurse.
Might not take a huge amount of training to get accredited, but I imagine it takes a huge amount of stamina and resilience to continue it for long.
 
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Avnger

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Imagine working in the healthcare profession and not grasping modern medicine.

Then again, it doesn't take all that much to become a nurse, seen a lot of generally dumb people work their way through a couple of courses and becoming a nurse.
I feel like part of the problem is that, while nurses do receive medical and scientific training, it's not enough to make them experts in a given medical field (that's what the doctor is there for, after all). It is, however, enough to give them the feeling of being experts and lead them into the Dunning-Kruger effect if they're not careful. This is just the POV of someone who's only experience with medical professionals is as a patient and knowing some premed and nursing majors in undergrad though, so take it with a pound of salt.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
It's not a massively stupid point, prior infection confers immunity. Guess why we didn't give people born before 1957 the measles vaccine. Do you know what's more stupid than quitting because you place of work can't follow basic scientific principles? Working during a pandemic without proper PPE, which is what nurses were doing. If nurses were greedy they'd quit for more money, which they should because they are underpaid. They aren't greedy, they are tired of getting shit on.

Nurses aren't typhoid Mary's.

Diabetes isn't directly infectious but it is indirectly as I explained. Kids given poor diets by parents lead to such diseases like diabetes and heart disease. Haha, in "Murica, we pay taxes to subsidize and make sugar cheaper (technically HFCS) to increase consumption.

The point of the paragraph is that getting something again when you have immunity doesn't mean anything. Look at all the sports players getting positive tests after vaccination, it doesn't mean it's a "breakthrough" case unless they actually get sick. Your immune system isn't shooting down covid as it enters your nose, it takes some time to take care of it and if you get tested then, you'll test positive. Getting infected again and getting the disease again are 2 different things, the 1st thing doesn't matter, the 2nd one does.
Nice of you to admit you think all nurses are stupid. I know that's not what you said but I can do that fun little ignoring what was said thing also. Anyway, if getting the vaccine is getting shit on then they don't deserve to work in the healthcare field. They are greedy selfish assholes who deserve ruin. These aren't just randos on the street and its bad enough when randos don't want the vaccine, these are health care professionals. Not only do they have a responsibility to their patients, but each one who makes a public spectacle of not wanting the vaccine just gives more ammunition to the anti-vaxxer dip shits who are doing everything they can to make sure this disease lasts as long as possible.

And as I said, we should totally have some kind of sugar tax to help reduce our over consumption of sugar. But its also a rally bad comparison since diabetes isn't infectious.

If you got covid before the delta variant then you can catch it again, getting the vaccine helps boost that and further reduces the chances of you getting the delta variant. If you have an immunity then your body tends to react quickly enough that you don't have much opportunity to spread the virus. Having the vaccine on top of an immunity from an infection is better then just having immunity from infection, no matter which variant.
 
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Agema

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I feel like part of the problem is that, while nurses do receive medical and scientific training, it's not enough to make them experts in a given medical field (that's what the doctor is there for, after all).
Yes - the standard of basic scientific knowledge for a nursing degree is hugely lower than it is for medical doctors, because that knowledge is not important to nursing, which is more a series of practical skills in delivering care.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Then how about they mandate people have either vaccination or a successful antibody test?
That's what the EU, UK, and Israel are doing because they follow science instead of "follow the science" like America. And there's more than one way to prove immunity than just an anti-body test. If you were hospitalized with covid, that's pretty damn good proof. Vaccine mandate makes no sense, immunity mandate is sensical.


this is so obviously irrelevant it's not even good propaganda. why are you posting it?
In response to the person I replied to saying you can't trust people with their own health and I agreed. Pop killed more people last year than covid, it's not propaganda. Just look at a chart of heart disease and sugar consumption over the decades, they mirror each other. Then, there's diabetes as well.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Nice of you to admit you think all nurses are stupid. I know that's not what you said but I can do that fun little ignoring what was said thing also. Anyway, if getting the vaccine is getting shit on then they don't deserve to work in the healthcare field. They are greedy selfish assholes who deserve ruin. These aren't just randos on the street and its bad enough when randos don't want the vaccine, these are health care professionals. Not only do they have a responsibility to their patients, but each one who makes a public spectacle of not wanting the vaccine just gives more ammunition to the anti-vaxxer dip shits who are doing everything they can to make sure this disease lasts as long as possible.

And as I said, we should totally have some kind of sugar tax to help reduce our over consumption of sugar. But its also a rally bad comparison since diabetes isn't infectious.

If you got covid before the delta variant then you can catch it again, getting the vaccine helps boost that and further reduces the chances of you getting the delta variant. If you have an immunity then your body tends to react quickly enough that you don't have much opportunity to spread the virus. Having the vaccine on top of an immunity from an infection is better then just having immunity from infection, no matter which variant.
People that don't need the vaccine shouldn't be forced to get the vaccine. Look at literally every other country that has high enough vaccine rates that a vaccine mandate is possible, they all have immunity passports because natural immunity is a thing (just like it has always been). Just because someone didn't get the vaccine doesn't mean they aren't responsible. JUST MAYBE, they got infected treating patients during a pandemic. One day someone's a hero and the next day they're a zero and scums of the earth, that's America for ya. Nurses are always the ones getting shit on in the medical field.

Diabetes and heart disease is indirectly infectious as I explained. The main point was you said you can't trust people with their own health and I agreed. If you wanna mandate something to stop/slow covid deaths, why not mandate something that kills more than covid did even last year and will kill more than covid will this year and the year after and the year after? Why is covid more important? I don't see videos of people in stores yelling at parents for buying cases of pop, but there's videos of people harassing others for not wearing a mask.

The Israel study showed natural immunity provides better protection from the Indian variant than vaccination. Your immune system makes antibodies against the entire virus whereas the vaccines only introduce your body to the spike protein. If the spike protein mutates, which it did in the Indian variant, and you only have defense against the spike protein of the virus and natural immunity is broader, what do you think will provide better immunity to variants? Thus why natural immunity has shown better in the Israel study. Sure, a vaccine gives a great very short-term boost, but antibodies wane because you don't need them until you get infected again and your body can start making more. Are you gonna mandate a shot every 6 months over a disease that has about a 0.2% fatality rate (and far far less once you've acquired any kind of immunity)? Your immune system adapts to variants on it's own, how do you think we survived so long and acquired life-long immunity to other diseases? If a virus can just mutate and get past our defenses all the time, we'd never have immunity to anything because all viruses mutate.
 
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Trunkage

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In response to the person I replied to saying you can't trust people with their own health and I agreed. Pop killed more people last year than covid, it's not propaganda. Just look at a chart of heart disease and sugar consumption over the decades, they mirror each other. Then, there's diabetes as well.

Which makes it 24 times less deadly than covid.... also, claiming that all heart diseased people is caused by soda is just nonsense

But then, I think the point was that you choose to put soda into your system, thus you reap the results. Where covid is something that is forced onto you generally by SOMEONE ELSE being irresponsible

You would have more on an equivalency if people were locked up and feed soda.
 
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Silvanus

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That's what the EU, UK, and Israel are doing because they follow science instead of "follow the science" like America. And there's more than one way to prove immunity than just an anti-body test. If you were hospitalized with covid, that's pretty damn good proof. Vaccine mandate makes no sense, immunity mandate is sensical.
?

The UK has done no such thing. And the EU hasn't mandated anything across the board (I doubt it even has the legal ability to do so).
 

Agema

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Diabetes and heart disease is indirectly infectious as I explained.
It wasn't a good explanation, then, because that statement is scientifically illterate.

The main point was you said you can't trust people with their own health and I agreed. If you wanna mandate something to stop/slow covid deaths, why not mandate something that kills more than covid did even last year and will kill more than covid will this year and the year after and the year after? Why is covid more important? I don't see videos of people in stores yelling at parents for buying cases of pop, but there's videos of people harassing others for not wearing a mask.
1) Diabetes and heart disease aren't transmissable diseases whereby your illness kills others. Well, discounting having a heart attack whilst you're driving a car, but that doesn't really count.

2) A vaccine is a few minutes of your time, plus a few side effects for a couple of days. Sorting out diabetes and heart disease are widespread if not wholesale lifestyle change over the course of months-years-lifetime. The two do not even remotely compare in terms of invasiveness into people lives.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
People that don't need the vaccine shouldn't be forced to get the vaccine. Look at literally every other country that has high enough vaccine rates that a vaccine mandate is possible, they all have immunity passports because natural immunity is a thing (just like it has always been). Just because someone didn't get the vaccine doesn't mean they aren't responsible. JUST MAYBE, they got infected treating patients during a pandemic. One day someone's a hero and the next day they're a zero and scums of the earth, that's America for ya. Nurses are always the ones getting shit on in the medical field.

Diabetes and heart disease is indirectly infectious as I explained. The main point was you said you can't trust people with their own health and I agreed. If you wanna mandate something to stop/slow covid deaths, why not mandate something that kills more than covid did even last year and will kill more than covid will this year and the year after and the year after? Why is covid more important? I don't see videos of people in stores yelling at parents for buying cases of pop, but there's videos of people harassing others for not wearing a mask.

The Israel study showed natural immunity provides better protection from the Indian variant than vaccination. Your immune system makes antibodies against the entire virus whereas the vaccines only introduce your body to the spike protein. If the spike protein mutates, which it did in the Indian variant, and you only have defense against the spike protein of the virus and natural immunity is broader, what do you think will provide better immunity to variants? Thus why natural immunity has shown better in the Israel study. Sure, a vaccine gives a great very short-term boost, but antibodies wane because you don't need them until you get infected again and your body can start making more. Are you gonna mandate a shot every 6 months over a disease that has about a 0.2% fatality rate (and far far less once you've acquired any kind of immunity)? Your immune system adapts to variants on it's own, how do you think we survived so long and acquired life-long immunity to other diseases? If a virus can just mutate and get past our defenses all the time, we'd never have immunity to anything because all viruses mutate.
At this stage, everyone who can get the vaccine almost certainly needs it.

I literally said that getting the disease and fighting it off gives better immunity then the vaccine, but getting both gives even better immunity than that. I'm going to assume by indian variant you meant the DELTA variant and aren't just being weirdly racist. Your immune system adapts to variants by you catching the disease, which is fine if its just one or two people, not if its 100k at once, since while most of those won't need hospitals, some will and there is only so much hospital to go around. All this shit is a numbers game and trying to figure out ways to lessen the impact and ensure the maximum number of people can get the care they need. If this shit turns into a yearly flu like thing then its because of dip shits who won't go the extra 10 feet to mitigate their chances of catching it by getting the vaccine, like those nurses.
 
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