New York Hospital to Pause Delivering Babies After Unvaccinated Workers Resign En Masse

Agema

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Do a search. That the virus could not come from a lab. That bats weren't in the lab (they were). That the US didn't fund that lab. OK we helped fund the lab but not to do gain of function research, etc. Masks won't help. Mask are mandatory. Non-vaxxed spread the virus. Oh. Even the manufacturers never claimed vaccination slowed spreading. It has been a #^%$#^ show.
I think a major caveat here is there in science there is a big difference between "We don't have evidence that X happens..." or "In this study we didn't find that X happens..." and "X doesn't happen". The former often get converted into the latter. If we take masks, for instance, the guidance was really "We don't have evidence they will help so maybe don't bother", later converting into "Actually new evidence suggests they will help, so wear one", because we had a clearer idea what went on.

That said, it is very possible that the government deliberately fudged on the initial statement when they declined to recommend masks. The potential reason being, there weren't enough masks: if they said masks would help prevent infection, people would have panic bought masks, and the health service which needed them most would not be able to procure them. It doesn't matter how much you tell the public "You should try to mask up, but please wait a month or two because supply is limited and health workers and the vulnerable need them most", people will panic buy and leave the health service and vulnerable people short. Literally every time the government warns against panic buying, people panic buy and cause shortages anyway: it's just the way it is. The government has to deal with this. So if the government fudged information to try to protect the health service and ensure vital supplies got to the right places for maximum societal benefit, is this truly a bad thing?

Where there are a lot of unknowns so there is a lot of uncertainty, opinion of varying reliability, and confusion. The simple fact is that people will just tend to latch onto what suits them. People suspicious of government or China or science or whatever will just select out whatever narratives fit their preconceived notions. People who hate China are far more likely to believe the virus was brewed in a Wuhan lab. People who distrust vaccines tend to be people who most distrust the government and Big Pharma. People who oppose the usefulness of masks tend to be people who oppose the government insisting people wear masks. And where there is a lack of certainty, or at some level they realise they are on the wrong end of the argument, they blame the same people they always blame for that confusion, too.
 

gorfias

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Can you link your sources on that?
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=there+were+bats+in+the+lab&ia=web Example: ton of links. I do see Kwak wrote of this too.

From the Sun: https://www.the-sun.com/news/2331292/wuhan-lab-covid-storm-bat-cages/

These are your words. Could not come from a lab, or is unlikely to have come from a lab?
Example: https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Though I think I first read of it at the Atlantic website.

snip to avoid posting errors...

Researcher Tied to Wuhan Lab Thanked Dr. Fauci for Dismissing Lab-Leak Theory

There's a lot of news out there that shore up the belief that there are powerful people that have an interest in feeding false narratives on this. Quacks do post anti-official narratives, but the official narrative is coming from very powerful people like Fauci. We just need to be very vigilant and skeptical.

I'm old and fat. I got the jabs. Makes sense. But I really wish the young people in my orbit had not.
 
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Agema

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There's a lot of news out there that shore up the belief that there are powerful people that have an interest in feeding false narratives on this. Quacks do post anti-official narratives, but the official narrative is coming from very powerful people like Fauci. We just need to be very vigilant and skeptical.
The narrative is relatively simple. Lots of microbiologists, and organisations like the CDC, and governments, work on trying to be proactive in research and anticipating infectious disease threats. Given SARS and MERS in the last twenty years, the threat of a new infectious coronavirus was high. Consequently these researchers formed collaborations with laboratories where these viruses were prevalent in the animal population. That's also why the Chinese centres are in Wuhan: it's smack bang in coronavirus central where it can access samples easily. And so Western labs ran operations through Chinese colleagues who are "on the ground". Bluntly, the research benefits us and would be much harder to do without the Chinese, so collaboration.

The next is gain-of-function research. Let's be clear, this is dangerous research - but then so is nuclear physics, and that didn't stop us researching it. In fact, it's very heavily regulated precisely because it's dangerous. I think greater awareness of this is a positive, because it means it will be scrutinised even more carefully.

Fauci's job here is to represent this stuff, to know and explain the scientific rationale for what went on and why. I do not think Fauci is that powerful: he doesn't actually control much of it. The real control comes from higher up. Who pays for this research? Health and defence departments, because both want to know what might be coming - with the angle from the latter that what might be coming might even be a deliberate attack. These give research grants (directly or indirectly through funding bodies like the NIH) down to scientists. Fauci doesn't really have anything much to do with this. When Fauci denies a lab leak, he's just a spokesman reporting the scientific consensus. (It's still the scientific consensus that there is no meaningful scientific evidence of SARS-CoV-2 being manipulated in a lab.)

So, new disease, possibility of lab leak, of course people shit a brick. Firstly, the scientist who was collaborating with China and sent Fauci that thanks. From all available evidence I can read, he's a well-intentioned guy who is genuinely try to help us understand and combat infectious disease, but he knows that even the possibility of a lab leak is going to be devastating to his research. There's not a conspiracy here: there's just a researcher who doesn't want his research killed. And indeed, the furore ended up killing his research.

The people with the real power more likely to be worried are high ranking officials in the DoD, State Dept and Health Departments. Firstly, they signed off on this research; secondly, they signed off on it because they believe it's useful and important. If the USA shuts off contact with China, it shuts off any ability to know what the hell is going on in China, whether natural zoonotic disease or bioweapons. Did any of them pressure Fauci? Who knows. But Fauci doesn't need to be pressured by them and there doesn't need to be a conspiracy, because this research and the rationale for doing it is already public access (if little known about before the outbreak) and sound in theory.

But people who want to believe conspiracies and malign forces and so on just will do so.

Let's be quite clear on Fauci: the US right wing hate him because they love Trump, and Trump and Fauci ended up clashing. Trump mishandled covid (a lot), and when Fauci felt forced to break with Trump's errors and bullshit, the pro-Trump cult turned on him. And so the US right is engaged in a campaign to trash Fauci: scrutinising everything he said over 18 months for errors and inconsistencies, "Deep State" nonsense, etc. Nobody's perfect, obviously Fauci has made errors. But attacking him is more about politics than how well he's done his job. Rand Paul is out there attacking Fauci vigorously in Senate committee meetings because it's a cheap and easy way to play to Trump and Trump supporters.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
There's a video of bats in cages in 2017.
I meant about the Fauci thing. I don't care about bats being in the lab at the time of the outbreak since the lab is a few miles from the wet market where all the initial cases were linked. So unless you are saying the lab deliberately spread the virus from the wet market, it doesn't really matter at this time for us here.
 

gorfias

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Let's be quite clear on Fauci: the US right wing hate him because they love Trump, and Trump and Fauci ended up clashing.
I personally hate him as much of what he is pushing seems anti-liberty and unhelpful.
I meant about the Fauci thing. I don't care about bats being in the lab at the time of the outbreak since the lab is a few miles from the wet market where all the initial cases were linked. So unless you are saying the lab deliberately spread the virus from the wet market, it doesn't really matter at this time for us here.
Example of the thanking thing: https://news.marketcap.com/research...nked-dr-fauci-for-dismissing-lab-leak-theory/

We were being told they didn't even have bats at the lab, so, to find the cages designed for bats, with footage of scientists working on bats, it was just yet another example of thinking we are being lied to yet again.

I have heard it posited that the Chinese did do this on purpose. That they used to call Covid a "boomer remover". Median age of death is 80ish and China faces a demographic nightmare this would alleviate. Personally? I think someone broke protocol when disposing of contaminated bats and it got out. China tried to cover it up rather then help the world contain it. So. Now here we are.

Why? What danger do you think they pose?
Any shot comes with some level of risk. The benefits of the shot are very limited while the danger to young people from Covid is also very limited. The UK published a calculator for this. G-d forbid we find in a few years this thing was sterilizing our kids.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I personally hate him as much of what he is pushing seems anti-liberty and unhelpful.

Example of the thanking thing: https://news.marketcap.com/research...nked-dr-fauci-for-dismissing-lab-leak-theory/

We were being told they didn't even have bats at the lab, so, to find the cages designed for bats, with footage of scientists working on bats, it was just yet another example of thinking we are being lied to yet again.

I have heard it posited that the Chinese did do this on purpose. That they used to call Covid a "boomer remover". Median age of death is 80ish and China faces a demographic nightmare this would alleviate. Personally? I think someone broke protocol when disposing of contaminated bats and it got out. China tried to cover it up rather then help the world contain it. So. Now here we are.



Any shot comes with some level of risk. The benefits of the shot are very limited while the danger to young people from Covid is also very limited. The UK published a calculator for this. G-d forbid we find in a few years this thing was sterilizing our kids.
You know what is anti-liberty? Pants, yet everyone wears them and doesn't even complain. If dumbasses wanted to have any credibility to their anti-mask bullshit, then they would also be anti-pants.

I have heard it posited that drinking your own pee lets you live forever. If you want to take that at face value then go ahead.

Taking Tylenol comes with some level of risk, walking down stairs comes with some level of risk, getting out of bed comes with some level of risk. That is a really poor reason to to not do those things. Wouldn't it make you happy if it was sterilizing our kids? I mean moderate and liberal people are more likely to get the vaccination, so that would mean there would be less of us and more conservatives.
 

Agema

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I personally hate him as much of what he is pushing seems anti-liberty and unhelpful.
Fauci's job is to minimise the number of Americans who get infected and die of disease. Plus the complication that the nature of infectious disease means you're not just putting yourself at risk, but other people.

Bear in mind weeks in ICU, potentially medical bills, and death are all forms of loss of liberty and - and can be very extreme forms of loss of liberty. At the point you endanger and deprive other people of liberty, that's the point your liberty doesn't carry so much weight any more. And really, where does having to wear a mask rate compared to killing people in terms of liberty? I figure pretty low.
 
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gorfias

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Taking Tylenol comes with some level of risk, walking down stairs comes with some level of risk, getting out of bed comes with some level of risk. That is a really poor reason to to not do those things.
So, should people have to prove they have a vital reason to leave the home? Drive a car? You could get killed or kill someone else driving a car. Shouldn't you need papers to leave the home?
Fauci's job is to minimise the number of Americans who get infected and die of disease. Plus the complication that the nature of infectious disease means you're not just putting yourself at risk, but other people.

Bear in mind weeks in ICU, potentially medical bills, and death are all forms of loss of liberty and - and can be very extreme forms of loss of liberty. At the point you endanger and deprive other people of liberty, that's the point your liberty doesn't carry so much weight any more. And really, where does having to wear a mask rate compared to killing people in terms of liberty? I figure pretty low.
Fauci has demonstrated that he lets his own motivations guide him. Maybe benign, maybe not. He is not operating on pure science anymore, but politics at this point. Potentially deadly to many. From what I can tell? I think him dangerous.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
So, should people have to prove they have a vital reason to leave the home? Drive a car? You could get killed or kill someone else driving a car. Shouldn't you need papers to leave the home?
Yeah, although, we kinda do this already. Not as much with the prove you have a reason to drive, but we do require people to pass competency to be allowed to drive. Vaccine mandates don't require you to get vaccinated no matter what, they require you to get vaccinated to participate in society.

Fauci has demonstrated that he lets his own motivations guide him. Maybe benign, maybe not. He is not operating on pure science anymore, but politics at this point. Potentially deadly to many. From what I can tell? I think him dangerous.
What the fuck are you talking about?
 

gorfias

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Then what does that make the hucksters pushing everything from horse paste to iodine?
You talking about treatment sought by people like Joe Rogan, that appear to have helped? I hear, had it been accepted that we have existing treatments for Covid such as those used by Joe and Trump, the fast tracking of the jabs would not have been legal.
Yeah, although, we kinda do this already. Not as much with the prove you have a reason to drive, but we do require people to pass competency to be allowed to drive. Vaccine mandates don't require you to get vaccinated no matter what, they require you to get vaccinated to participate in society.


What the fuck are you talking about?
But with demands that you got the shot is like demanding you have to jump through hoops to have a right to live. Very totalitarian.
As for Fauci, at a minimum, he told us we don't need masks, then said we do but he lied as he didn't want a run on them that might deprive first responders. Even taken at his word, he let his motivations over-ride even what he tells us is his understanding of the truth. In reality? The masks used to come in boxes warning, "does not block germs". They are meant to keep surgeons from coughing into surgical openings in patients. For short periods. In reality, people (me) wear them extensively to avoid trouble, but way past when they might have even limited impact. This appears to be about totalitarian control and the slaughter of basic liberty. I'll be honest: I am scared out of my mind as to what they really have in store for us. I think you should be as well. Does any of this current paradigm seem normal to you?
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
You talking about treatment sought by people like Joe Rogan, that appear to have helped? I hear, had it been accepted that we have existing treatments for Covid such as those used by Joe and Trump, the fast tracking of the jabs would not have been legal.
The treatment they both got that probably did the most is Monoclonal Antibodies and its still under emergency authorization. The vaccines have been approved by the FDA.

But with demands that you got the shot is like demanding you have a right to live. Very totalitarian.
As for Fauci, at a minimum, he told us we don't need masks, then said we do but he lied as he didn't want a run on them that might deprive first responders. Even taken at his word, he let his motivations over-ride even what he tells us is his understanding of the truth. In reality? The masks used to come in boxes warning, "does not block germs". They are meant to keep surgeons from coughing into surgical openings in patients. For short periods. In reality, people (me) wear them extensively to avoid trouble, but way past when they might have even limited impact. This appears to be about totalitarian control and the slaughter of basic liberty. I'll be honest: I am scared out of my mind as to what they really have in store for us. I think you should be as well. Does any of this current paradigm seem normal to you?
We already are required to get shots. To attend public schools, kids are required already to get a number of vaccinations. Everything is totalitarian if you decide to be dumb about it, seat belts are totalitarian, road laws are totalitarian, schooling is totalitarian, pants are definitely totalitarian. Society is totalitarian. Think about it, you don't have the right to walk down the street and just punch that guy over there cause he might have looked at you funny, we are totally living in a totalitarian regime just cause you can't go punch that guy without the popo locking you up.

I'm going to blow your mind here but there are different kinds of masks and at the start of this, we had no idea if masks were effective or not, it took time and research to figure out how to slow the spread of this disease.

Of course nothing about this is normal, its a pandemic. Dealing with a pandemic requires more of a response then just happy thoughts. You need action to deal with it, cause it is not your right to spread disease to other people. I know you want to make the slippery slope argument but its a bad argument. We have seen much much much MUCH heavier government control of the populous and still come back from it. You don't seem to understand how strong our institutions are, really I didn't really understand how strong they are till they were able to hold up to someone like trump.
 

Kwak

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I hear, had it been accepted that we have existing treatments for Covid such as those used by Joe and Trump, the fast tracking of the jabs would not have been legal.
Oh, you hear do you? Perhaps you shouldn't base your view of reality on what you 'hear', without getting the opinion of those who actually might know what they're talking about on those subjects?
 

Cheetodust

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I hear, had it been accepted that we have existing treatments for Covid such as those used by Joe and Trump, the fast tracking of the jabs would not have been legal.
*sigh* Okay Boomer. Did you get lost on your way to Facebook again?
 
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AnxietyProne

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I am scared out of my mind as to what they really have in store for us. I think you should be as well. Does any of this current paradigm seem normal to you?
Oh I'm scared, but more of what your side is pushing about ME.
 
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gorfias

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Everything is totalitarian if you decide to be dumb about it, seat belts are totalitarian
LOL, a lot of what you write about, I do consider totalitarian. Telling us to wear a seat belt I think is good advice. Make it a punishable law? Over-reach.
Oh, you hear do you? Perhaps you shouldn't base your view of reality on what you 'hear', without getting the opinion of those who actually might know what they're talking about on those subjects?
Are you suggesting this isn't true? ITMT, if I'm right about a lot of things, the Internet is being scrubbed and searches interfered with when someone is trying to go against the official narrative. I'll see what is still out there.
EDIT: So far,
" Under an EUA, FDA may allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. "
 
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BrawlMan

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LOL, a lot of what you write about, I do consider totalitarian. Telling us to wear a seat belt I think is good advice. Make it a punishable law? Over-reach.

Are you suggesting this isn't true? ITMT, if I'm right about a lot of things, the Internet is being scrubbed and searches interfered with when someone is trying to go against the official narrative. I'll see what is still out there.
EDIT: So far,
" Under an EUA, FDA may allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. "
Dude, learn to think for yourself. You are so out of it and barking up the wrong tree. You really don't want to get it. I'm not going to bother because it'll be a waste of time with you. You keep doing the same thing over and over.
 

tstorm823

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Dude, learn to think for yourself. You are so out of it and barking up the wrong tree. You really don't want to get it. I'm not going to bother because it'll be a waste of time with you. You keep doing the same thing over and over.
Have you ever heard the term "platitude"?
 

Agema

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You talking about treatment sought by people like Joe Rogan, that appear to have helped?
Did it? How does anyone know?

The only way we could know whether it helped is if we had a Joe Rogan that didn't take anything to compare against the Joe Rogan who did take something. But strikes me that as 99.9+% of people like Joe Rogan recover fine from covid without taking anything, it seems pretty absurd to credit a drug for helping.