Newton Residents Vote to Tear Down Sandy Hook Elementary, Rebuild for $50 Million

soren7550

Overly Proud New Yorker
Dec 18, 2008
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LegendaryVKickr said:
soren7550 said:
http://news.yahoo.com/newtown-votes-demolish-sandy-hook-school-155625493.html

New students likely won't know what happened there to make the town want to tear the place down, unless told and/or they see a big memorial there. So what's the point? Remodel if you must, but tearing down the place and putting up something new won't change things.
That's why everybody forgot about Columbine, right?

I don't think anybody's trying to change anything. I think it's about the children, who are traumatized from exposed to a horrific incident. Nobody wants to come back to the classroom and think "that's where my sister was shot".

No amount of remodeling is going to make anybody want to go back into that school. And it's expensive, yes. I'm sure there's been countless donations and charity drives that are going to help balance the expenses out a bit.
Never did I say anything like that. All I said was that new students likely wouldn't know what happened unless told and/or they saw a memorial.

With places like Columbine, and Virginia Tech, the students will be at an age where they can and possibly will look up information on the place, and find out about the shootings. And yet those schools haven't been razed to the ground, they eventually kept on keeping on as usual. Whereas with Sandy Hook, the kids that's go there likely would never look up information on the place due to their age, and not caring because they're seven. Their biggest concerns are Ben 10 (or whatever show kids watch these day), and trying to have ice cream and candy for dinner. They'd probably only care if someone told them. And if someone is going around telling little kids about places where a bunch of kids their age died, then there's some bigger problems about.

But let's say they don't build a new school, they keep using the old one and it reopens next school year. The newest students will be five, meaning that they would have been three when the shootings happened. And the only way that they'd know what happened there was if someone told them. Because they're five, they probably can't read, and even if they could, they wouldn't be bothered to look up information on their school because they don't care BECAUSE THEY'RE FIVE. The only reason they wouldn't want to go there is because school is dumb and smelly.


People likely won't forget the shooting that happened there for a long time. But just let the older people worry about bad things like that. Don't go worrying little kids about it though. Beating the fact that the world can be a very horrible place over their heads will certainly make them not want to go to the school, or anywhere.
Shit, little kids now a days don't even know about 9/11, and that was something that effected the whole nation. They only know about it because eventually they're going to see something about it on TV when that time of year rolls about again. And even then, they'll only know the barest bones about what happened and why, because most people have enough common sense to not go scaring kids with stuff like that.

If you were a student that was there when the shootings happened, and you don't want to go there anymore, fine.
 

bjj hero

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Feb 4, 2009
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Miss G. said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Miss G. said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Is there any rational reason that they're like that? The one time I've asked my American classmates about these gun issues the discussion devolved into a cacophony of (almost) shouting (because this was like 30 seconds before our 10 minute break was over) before I could even finish my question. I understand that my outsider view of Americans is inherently distorted from what they really are, but that incident didn't exactly help their case.
It's one of those berserk buttons I guess. Never mind the actual argument.
Oh, that makes sense. Now I know its just better to not ask Americans again, at least, if I want an actually coherent/civil answer. Thanks. :D
Its cultural dfferences. The same way most of Europe tends t lean more towards the left on things like the welfare state and universal healthcare. I had a friends who was robbed when he worked in a pawn shop. It turned into a shootout and he killed the guy. The police told him thre robber had killed the last two cashiers hed robbed.

Nothing my wise arse, know it all, 20 year old british self could say would change his beliefs. A gun saved his life. It is also seen as a check or balance incase an oppressive government ever took power. An armed populous could defend itself. Your culture colours your view of the world. Thats why someone elses norms seem crazy. There will be thingd you do that seem arse backwards to a foreigner.

Different is sometimes just different. Not wrong. America is not in a place where it could ban guns. Its too ingrained. Try banning alcohol in England
Its a drug and causes no end of damage. That wont work either.

OT. Did the building need work? If it did this isnt such a strange choice.
 

RoonMian

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Mar 5, 2011
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Okay, now that it has been clarified that renovation would be as expensive as a new building the problem with "waste because grief" is off the table...

But still, my question hasn't been answered: 50,000,000$? FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS US?!? Does every student get his own individual golf cart or are the teachers going to be carried around in palanquins?
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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Vegosiux said:
You know this, I know this, and I dare say most people thinking rationally know this. But I suppose some people still seem to have the mindset that burning an effigy is going to make the problem it represents go away. I could almost say the Newton folks went full on voodoo.
But to be fair, can you blame them?

Trauma does bad things to people. It changes the way they think, how they deal with problems, and wrecks them emotionally. Sandy Hook is nothing if not utterly traumatic to the entire community.

I'm annoyed that taxpayer money is being used to rebuild the thing, but I understand why it's happening.
 

lacktheknack

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RoonMian said:
Okay, now that it has been clarified that renovation would be as expensive as a new building the problem with "waste because grief" is off the table...

But still, my question hasn't been answered: 50,000,000$? FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS US?!? Does every student get his own individual golf cart or are the teachers going to be carried around in palanquins?
What?

You DO know how expensive large buildings and all their furnishings are, right?

I don't know how large Sandy Hook was, but if it was meant to educate more than 600 kids, I'm surprised it doesn't cost more. A computer lab's equipment alone can set you back hundreds of thousands of dollars, let alone the materials, labor, inspections and specialists needed.
 

DudeistBelieve

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Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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I have a feeling that if the people who voted were confronted, we'd get a response along the lines of:


Or some nonsense like that.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
Always the same reaction, "hurr hurr, why don't we just ban everything". OK dude, whatever. Selling murder at the tip of a finger is not a problem at all. Knock yourselves out with your guns. You do that already anyway. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive, but you literally do and everybody always points fingers somewhere else.
 

Giyguy

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eh, look on the bright side, at least it'll create jobs maybe.

possibly.

hopefully.

*sigh* please just get something good out of this.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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Deshara said:
The "self defense from the government" argument cracks me the fuck up. What the fuck could the american populace do against the US military? Our military levels cities from the sky when it so chooses and the people there can't do shit about it, and we have less access to arms than the Iraqis or Afghans did. What the fuck is Billy Joe gonna do with his 50 year old rifle that he masturbates over every night if a humvee runs his trailer down or a passing jet drops a bomb onto it?
Truth is, our gun ownership is only allowed because our sexual obsession with guns means that letting right-wing shut-ins have a rifle or two somehow convinces them that they could make a difference if they wanted to, when the reality is that his arms would have just as much impact as his vote does-- ie, none at all thanks to voter fraud at the legislative level. Our country's just set up to let them convince themselves otherwise.
There's a couple problems with this logic.

First and foremost, it assumes the various people in the military would all uniformly be willing to attack American citizens. It's certainly possible, and I can envision a situation where it happens, but even a halfway decent PR effort on the part of the rebels would make most of the boots-on-the-ground military very, very unwilling to actually act.

Second, insurgencies are pretty much perfect against the modern US military. See: Afghanistan and Iraq. It's not likely to actually win any decisive battles against the US military, but it's more than capable of harassing them and waging a fierce hearts and minds campaign. Because they don't need to win any battles. They just need to make it expensive, and turn the populace against the government.

Once that happens, it doesn't matter what the military has. As long as the people aren't willing to obey, the government and its various tools are utterly meaningless. Being the leader of a country of one isn't exactly an accomplishment, after all.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
Always the same reaction, "hurr hurr, why don't we just ban everything". OK dude, whatever. Selling murder at the tip of a finger is not a problem at all. Knock yourselves out with your guns. You do that already anyway.
No no clearly you're right, sir. "Hurr hurr, lets ban this one thing that does nothing to save anyone but lets me sleep better at night because I want the blanket of big government to keep me safe rather than take that responsibility myself."

Have fun with your ADT home security system that can't do anything other than call the police for you... ya know the guys with GUNS.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
Always the same reaction, "hurr hurr, why don't we just ban everything". OK dude, whatever. Selling murder at the tip of a finger is not a problem at all. Knock yourselves out with your guns. You do that already anyway.
No no clearly you're right, sir. "Hurr hurr, lets ban this one thing that does nothing to save anyone but lets me sleep better at night because I want the blanket of big government to keep me safe rather than take that responsibility myself."

Have fun with your ADT home security system that can't do anything other than call the police for you... ya know the guys with GUNS.
Dude it's fine if the cops have them, someone has to enforce the law, that's the social pact. Let's just not put a gun in EVERYONE's reach, OK?
 

Ryotknife

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Oct 15, 2011
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Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
Always the same reaction, "hurr hurr, why don't we just ban everything". OK dude, whatever. Selling murder at the tip of a finger is not a problem at all. Knock yourselves out with your guns. You do that already anyway.
No no clearly you're right, sir. "Hurr hurr, lets ban this one thing that does nothing to save anyone but lets me sleep better at night because I want the blanket of big government to keep me safe rather than take that responsibility myself."

Have fun with your ADT home security system that can't do anything other than call the police for you... ya know the guys with GUNS.
Dude it's fine if the cops have them, someone has to enforce the law, that's the social pact. Let's just not put a gun in EVERYONE's reach, OK?
guns are not in everyone's reach (well, except for that one town in Georgia I think where it is mandatory for everyone to own a gun).

There are...you know....laws and such.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
Always the same reaction, "hurr hurr, why don't we just ban everything". OK dude, whatever. Selling murder at the tip of a finger is not a problem at all. Knock yourselves out with your guns. You do that already anyway.
No no clearly you're right, sir. "Hurr hurr, lets ban this one thing that does nothing to save anyone but lets me sleep better at night because I want the blanket of big government to keep me safe rather than take that responsibility myself."

Have fun with your ADT home security system that can't do anything other than call the police for you... ya know the guys with GUNS.
Dude it's fine if the cops have them, someone has to enforce the law, that's the social pact. Let's just not put a gun in EVERYONE's reach, OK?
Because officers are never corrupt or have been known to have mental health issues.

No.... Big Government Utopia.

Forever<3
 

Johnny Novgorod

Bebop Man
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Feb 9, 2012
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SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
Always the same reaction, "hurr hurr, why don't we just ban everything". OK dude, whatever. Selling murder at the tip of a finger is not a problem at all. Knock yourselves out with your guns. You do that already anyway.
No no clearly you're right, sir. "Hurr hurr, lets ban this one thing that does nothing to save anyone but lets me sleep better at night because I want the blanket of big government to keep me safe rather than take that responsibility myself."

Have fun with your ADT home security system that can't do anything other than call the police for you... ya know the guys with GUNS.
Dude it's fine if the cops have them, someone has to enforce the law, that's the social pact. Let's just not put a gun in EVERYONE's reach, OK?
Because officers are never corrupt or have been known to have mental health issues.

No.... Big Government Utopia.

Forever<3
What you gonna do, hunt criminals down yourself? Now it's a corrupt cop issue? Aren't we trying to spin this in an impossible way so that it's always everything BUT guns that's the problem? Again, not trying to be offensive and my apologies is I've been brash on the subject, but people seem so BENT about NOT reconsidering the gun thing.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
It's a waste of money but at the same time, a whole class of little kids were slaughtered.

The sentimental side of me agrees with taring it down and building a new one.


Johnny Novgorod said:
Adam Jensen said:
Classic American way of avoiding real issues. The entire country is immature. They think like 12 year olds. It's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna fix anything. It's just going to cost more.
Absolutely. I wish they did something about the gun thing instead. But then people get so defensive about their right to own them.
Boston Marathon Bombing happened with Pressure cookers.

I don't see any of you calling for a ban on Pressure Cookers.

Ever see Jurassic Park? LIFE FINDS A WAY.
Yes because under prohibition, no one has gotten their hands on say.... Drugs, alcohol, illegal fireworks.

Your suggestive ban would only effect people who follow the law who have no intent to go on a rampage killing.

The ones that will want to kill people WILL FIND A WAY. You're not stopping anything with the law, just creating a black market.

And I'm just saying, you want to ban all weapons then don't be a hypocrite. Say you want the ban on pressure cookers and all the components used for making pipebombs. Why does anyone *NEED* fertilizer anyway?
Always the same reaction, "hurr hurr, why don't we just ban everything". OK dude, whatever. Selling murder at the tip of a finger is not a problem at all. Knock yourselves out with your guns. You do that already anyway.
No no clearly you're right, sir. "Hurr hurr, lets ban this one thing that does nothing to save anyone but lets me sleep better at night because I want the blanket of big government to keep me safe rather than take that responsibility myself."

Have fun with your ADT home security system that can't do anything other than call the police for you... ya know the guys with GUNS.
Dude it's fine if the cops have them, someone has to enforce the law, that's the social pact. Let's just not put a gun in EVERYONE's reach, OK?
Because officers are never corrupt or have been known to have mental health issues.

No.... Big Government Utopia.

Forever<3
What you wanna do Bruce, hunt criminals down yourself?
Ya know you were in correct before labeling me a gun owner. I'm not. I live in New York, where I basically can only own pepperspray and a walking cane.

Can I ask why I'm not aloud to wield a bo-staff? Or Nunchucks? Or even a sword? I live in a part of the nation where the government tells me I'm not allowed to defend myself. and I'm not one those people that niavely believe that I'm safe outside the comfort of my home, I hate every second I'm in a crowded place of people cause I know what can happen.

No I don't want to hunt down criminals myself, but if I'm in a public space and there is one of those pyschopaths, I'd like not to be completely unarmed against a machine guns. Gun laws only mean that the weapons are only allowed to fall into the hands of folks that aren't going to follow them in the first place.

Want a proactive solution? Lets get our PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS back that we lost in the 80s. We got homeless nutjobs just wandering the streets.