Nihilism

[BurnoutPriest]

I actually am surprised no results dealing directly with nihilism were returned when I searched the forum. Anyway, what is your take upon this "philosophy of nothingness?" Please debate the philosophy and keep the discussion on topic.

For myself, I would not agree with the extreme position involved in "there is no truth" or no value is greater than any other value. I do, however, agree with the existential nihilist in that there is no objective or intrinsic meaning to life. I would argue one can create their own subjective meaning.

 

[Amnestic]

Check the "Why anything?" thread. It's a thread pretty much inspired by nihilism.

To cut it short though, I'm an absurdist [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism]. In my view it's the best place to be for an Atheist, and I think a lot of people will find themselves as absurdists unknowingly (just like me until Imitation Saccharin pointed me in the direction of it)

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Spoiler: What's the point?

Yes, that is irony. Nihilism FTL in a good way.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Nihilism... is quite odd.

To me, it has no potential, its the ultimate pessimism.

And i disagree on the Absurdist thing, i think the best place for an atheist to be is Secular Humanism.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Nihilism... is quite odd.

To me, it has no potential, its the ultimate pessimism.

And i disagree on the Absurdist thing, i think the best place for an atheist to be is Secular Humanism.

I guess an atheist already made 1 unfounded assumption, why not 2?

 

[Easykill]

Reading the Absurdist thing, I read some things that I agreed with, like creating meaning for yourself. Seems dumb just following some assignment granted by some being you know nothing about. Not sure if that makes me one or not.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Nihilism... is quite odd.

To me, it has no potential, its the ultimate pessimism.

And i disagree on the Absurdist thing, i think the best place for an atheist to be is Secular Humanism.

I guess an atheist already made 1 unfounded assumption, why not 2?

Would you care to elaborate, I'm interested in what you have to say, but what you have said isn't very clear to me, I may be a little slow.

I agree, i feel i have been accused of something... but i don't know what it is...

 

[BurnoutPriest]

I've heard this argument a lot when dealing with nihilism and I always find it dissatisfies me. The argument is basically "nihilism is so bleak" or "nihilism can lead to suicide, dictatorships, etc." I don't feel like it answers its truth, just maybe reasons why to not be nihilist.

Let me be the devil's advocate here and ask why nihilism has to lead to such pessimism. Even if we have no meaning why can we not live within the moment (not in a hedonist sense) and still help others just because we want to?

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Nihilism... is quite odd.

To me, it has no potential, its the ultimate pessimism.

And i disagree on the Absurdist thing, i think the best place for an atheist to be is Secular Humanism.

I guess an atheist already made 1 unfounded assumption, why not 2?

Would you care to elaborate, I'm interested in what you have to say, but what you have said isn't very clear to me, I may be a little slow.

I agree, i feel i have been accused of something... but i don't know what it is...

Perhaps he believes that the belief that there is no god to be an unfounded assumption.

Theres actually more than a little evidence for and against the existence of a greater power.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Nihilism is a stable philosophy. Why should knowing there is no reason for existing detract from said existence?

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Atheism- the belief that no god exists
Secular Humanism- the belief that there is a universal morality among people because they are people

The first assumption is that as no evidence of God has been found, it/he/she does not exist. The second is part of secular humanism, which is based on the assumption that the human condition is universal.

What about the lack of solid evidence?
Is it not reasonable for one to not believe in something that has relatively no evidence to support it?

The only response that does not base itself on assumption is agnosticism.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

What about the lack of solid evidence?
Is it not reasonable for one to not believe in something that has relatively no evidence to support it?

There is some evidence that would seem to support the existence of a higher power, very little and nothing solid but it's still there.

 

[BurnoutPriest]

Oi! We're not even through the first page and already we've gotten into atheism, humanism, and agnosticism. These topics have been talked to death, look elsewhere for their discussion.

 

[RufusMcLaser]

I disagree with the Nihilist talking point that search for meaning is impossible, and meaning is itself unobtainable. In that respect I have to agree with the Absurdists: y' need to come up with your own meaning.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Why are we to believe that something is possible if we have no reason to believe it is?

Because you have not seen that it is impossible.

*I am aware of the seeming impossibility of providing positive evidence for a negative claim, but consider how one proves a ladder is not in a closet.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Why are we to believe that something is possible if we have no reason to believe it is?

Because you have not seen that it is impossible.

The question rises then, if we have never seen it happen, and never seen it not happen, why should we pay it attention?

Such things can be cast aside as pointless in the face of more real issues.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Nihilism

-Denial of existence of any basic for knowledge or truth
-Rejection of morality, religion, etc.

The only rule is personnal enjoyement.

I think the pessimism point can be answered with the lack of knowledge of nihilism. Let me elaborate with an example of a discussion.

Person Ao you beleive in God?
Person B: No
Person A: Do you beleive there is a reason for life?
Person B: No, we have no purpose
Person A: So you don't beleive in anything like life, religion and the basics in society?
Person B: I beleive only on my own existence.


Even with this example, I don't think I can't really pinpoint nihilism.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Such things can be cast aside as pointless in the face of more real issues.

It's basically a microcosm for philosophy, yes.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

While I very much disagree with Nihilism (or, at least, very much want to), I certainly can't claim to be 100% confident in any particular viewpoint. Nihilism is the stripped down, bare-bones philosophy that my mind leads me to, after I fail to prove to myself that theism or universal morality must be necessarily true.

I am no Nihilist- at least, I don't want to be. But if I discard the other viewpoints one by one for lack of proof, Nihilism is what I find myself left with in the end. If it came to that extreme, I would not condemn any act. Why would I?

EDIT: Also, I could not be an Absurdist in any case, because I could not take the leap that just because I personally will probably never know a thing, that thing must be unknowable. I also don't think Nihilism is predisposed to optimism or pessimism. It is my own need for something greater than myself (which many share) that makes it intolerably pessimistic.

 

[BurnoutPriest]

Nihilism

-Denial of existence of any basic for knowledge or truth
-Rejection of morality, religion, etc.

The only rule is personnal enjoyement.

I think the pessimism point can be answered with the lack of knowledge of nihilism. Let me elaborate with an example of a discussion.

Person Ao you beleive in God?
Person B: No
Person A: Do you beleive there is a reason for life?
Person B: No, we have no purpose
Person A: So you don't beleive in anything like life, religion and the basics in society?
Person B: I beleive only on my own existence.


Even with this example, I don't think I can't really pinpoint nihilism.

Your ending statement for said theoretical nihilist sounds like you are assuming they are solipsist. While these two views may be compatible, they do not necessarily entail each other. I would argue hedonism is not directly concluded from nihilism. Hedonism is to allow yourself to be a slave to your desires, while I believe many people desire freedom. If there is no meaning in life, then there should be no meaning either way. Want instant self-gratification?
OK, doesn't matter. Want to follow the golden rule? OK, doesn't matter.

(I'm not a nihilist so I do apologize if I overstep my boundaries at any point trying to argue for it.)

EDIT: Alright, to the discussion about assumptions, proving a negative, etc:
It's a logical fallacy to assume A is true just because anti-A has no evidence to support it. However, the converse is also true.
With the assumptions: agnostics aren't above this realm of assuming. If you're a permanent agnostic then you assume that god can't be proven one way or the other.