Ninja Turtles: The Next (And No Longer The Worst) Mutation
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
The next mutation came out in '97? Really? That long ago? I watched that when it came out... I feel really old now. dang it.
Yeah, it wasn't great and the whole "we're not blood relatives" thing was creepy and awkward as hell, but I watched it. If only because I was so used to having SOMETHING Ninja Turtles in my life.
Yeah, it wasn't great and the whole "we're not blood relatives" thing was creepy and awkward as hell, but I watched it. If only because I was so used to having SOMETHING Ninja Turtles in my life.
I grew up watching the live-action films and cartoon, so I remember wanting to get into this when it came out, but for whatever reason I couldn't stick with it. I remember being really bummed that Shredder gets his ass kicked permanently in the very first episode - how could they just shelve him like that? - but, despite recalling pretty clearly how stilted and "mystic" Venus came off for some reason I never actually hated her. I don't completely remember if I saw the TMNT + PR crossover (I know it was during the "Rangers in Space" arc) but I know I was really, really happy to find out that was a thing.
Also, other baddies included Asian martial arts vampires, 2 of them played by children dubbed over with demonic voices, and the "Kraven knockoff" is played by 80's voiceover mainstay Scott "Wolverine + Ocean Dub Piccolo" McNeil.
Also, other baddies included Asian martial arts vampires, 2 of them played by children dubbed over with demonic voices, and the "Kraven knockoff" is played by 80's voiceover mainstay Scott "Wolverine + Ocean Dub Piccolo" McNeil.
Hmmm, I liked Venus. There. She wasn't JUST another ninja, had her own thing, got into the fights. She could have been better but I didn't hate her.
She brought in a new and interesting dynamic. BEFORE TMNT capitalized on it Next Mutation followed that "okay we aren't teens anymore so now what" and moving out, in part, of their original dynamic. She was both a possible love interest but more an adoptive teen sister. I also never resent a wet blanket, especially as it meant Leonardo was actually allowed to expand.
Plus I liked the vampire arc where she was challenged in various ways, failed, and but back up. That was more dynamic than I was used to in girl characters who were just added.
However I am not a girl or a serious Turtles fan and I understand any combination of that loathe the idea of her.
She brought in a new and interesting dynamic. BEFORE TMNT capitalized on it Next Mutation followed that "okay we aren't teens anymore so now what" and moving out, in part, of their original dynamic. She was both a possible love interest but more an adoptive teen sister. I also never resent a wet blanket, especially as it meant Leonardo was actually allowed to expand.
Plus I liked the vampire arc where she was challenged in various ways, failed, and but back up. That was more dynamic than I was used to in girl characters who were just added.
However I am not a girl or a serious Turtles fan and I understand any combination of that loathe the idea of her.
Yeah, that whole thing was a mess. I hink what they're were trying to do was make Venus the responsible, mature one...but we already had LEO for that. She was really just an addition that couldn't justify her existence and people having to bend over backwards clearly showed that. She really was a mess, though Laird throwing a gynophobic hissy fit over her was just stupid.
I remember nothing about this show except Venus. No episodes, no lines, no villains...I even forgot that the turtles had their masks redesigned. But I remember Venus because I remember thinking, "Cool. A girl Ninja Turtle." Apparently that wasn't enough to make me really enjoy the show though.
People don't like the 'Team Mom' now? I thought it was a positive trait, showing a woman in a leadership role and telling the others to be rational.
It really depends on how the rest of the team balances out. If there were a "team dad" who could share the finger-waving/moralising duties with her, then it could be okay, as long as it's only a facet of her personality and not the sum of it.Burnouts3s3 said:
But if she's the only responsible character in a team of boisterous "aw, I just wanna have fun!" types, then it just makes her look like a buzzkill, which isn't the most endearing trait for a character in what's supposed to be a fun kids show.
The idea of a female turtle is not a bad idea the main issue is that I feel it generally needs to be done in a fresh continuity with a general overhaul of the franchise. Fitting a new character into an established closed story like TMNT rarely works.
On the other hand it just adds to the turtlecest issues
On the other hand it just adds to the turtlecest issues
I'll ignore that time that a kid's show directly mentioned sexism (Sorry, about the fanart rather than an image from the show. It's all I could find on short notice):inu-kun said:
I'll ignore those times sexism was a topic [http://38.media.tumblr.com/31ec5eedc5e7dc6c56349eb30af1fb91/tumblr_n90zqso3Gc1ruepzno2_250.gif] later [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Snake101/Avatar/Aang/Book%20One/Chapter%20Four/s01e04grab14850.jpg] on [http://37.media.tumblr.com/76abf539a6802c37f920465cdc5ff813/tumblr_n90zqso3Gc1ruepzno7_250.gif] as well.
Now, you're welcome to argue that Avatar: The Last Airbender had and still has a following among an older demographic, but it was still classified as a kid's cartoon and put on a network that tries to attract kids. Obviously, this is in the opposite direction of being a sexist show, but it does demonstrate, whether in a positive light or not, sexism does get brought up in kid's shows. When discussing the universe of ATLA the creators have also brought up how sexism has seeped into kid's shows as well. It's not like it doesn't happen.
You can argue whether Bob is grasping at straws with TMNT, but don't try to disregard his argument by acting as if it's not a legitimate thing that happens in kid's shows just because they're for kids, a byproduct of critic over-analysis and nothing more. It does happen. It's kind of insulting to kids honestly to say their entertainment must always be so pandering and so underwhelming it can't even have a semblance of issues of that seriousness or complexity. It's that kind of mindset that leads to so many terrible shows for kids who are craving something more.
jamail77 said:
inu-kun said:
People seem to forget that kid's shows are still made, produced, and written by adults, it's not like kids with no concept of gender roles or stereotypes make these things, sexist stereotypes and tropes are definitely capable of sneaking into kid's shows. Hell, some stereotypes are even more common than in adult entertainment, boiling a character down into simple stereotypes is a common kid's show trope (even if it is a bit lazy), so negative gender stereotypes can sometimes end up being really blatant in an effort to simplify everything for the viewers, the token girl trope is also common in kid's entertainment, so if you've only got one female character and she's a walking negative stereotype, people are going to criticize it.
Of course, Bob may have been reaching a bit with his critiques, I never saw Next Mutation so I wouldn't know, I always thought Venus appeared in the cartoon somewhere. I never realized she was introduced in a live action show, or that the power rangers crossed over with TMNT, but I guess I missed it because I was a teenager at that point and wasn't watching TMNT or power rangers any more.
I've heard of this version of the Turtles, used as a derision of the franchise, as well as the "Coming Out of Their Shells" Live musical shows.
That sounds like both Marge and Lisa Simpson.Kmadden2004 said:
I only ever watched the 2003 series to any great extent but seriously guys if you want a female Character there were female artists during the Renaissance Artemisia springs to mind
Huh, its funny, this series was actually the first to introduce me to the ninja turtles. As a little kid I remember really liking the show, but even then, I recognized a lot of it as crap. I loved parts of the show, but I could always tell it was made on a zero budget and that the lack of Shredder always bothered me.
Its funny, you'd think Venus would be ripe for a redesign, at least a fanmade one. But I haven't even seen fanart of her.
Its funny, you'd think Venus would be ripe for a redesign, at least a fanmade one. But I haven't even seen fanart of her.