Nintendo Belittles Achievements As "Mythical Rewards"

TPiddy

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Achievements, when done well, are a good way to showcase some of the lesser known features of your game or ways to encourage users to try things out. I liked some of the weapon achievements in Gears of War because it forced you to try all the guns, and subsequently, get better at using all the guns, thus improving the online multi-player.

We all seem to neglect another important part about achievements. Achievements are a two-way street. Achievements are as much about feedback to the developers as they are feedback to the players. Devs glean all sorts of information about how people are playing their games. For example, take a sports game with an annual release. Throw an achievement in for some feature, and then see what % of users actually got the achievement. This could help you decide whether to keep or expand that feature.

Achievements are a great way to help devs improve overall game play.
 

duchaked

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any time you strive to get a high score or rank up to another level you are essentially doing the whole getting achievements (or trophies) deal

so...yeah...that's about all I gotta say about all this
 

Kroxile

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I would love to take Nintendo's side on this 100% but then I'd be a hypocrite. I've never rented, borrowed, or bought a game simply for the trophies/achievements and I really don't see why anyone in their right mind would seeing how you get nothing for them. But that hasn't stopped me from becoming an achievement hunter for games I really really liked, such as Megaman 9/10, Dead Space, and Dragon Age: Origins.
 

Ericb

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duchaked said:
any time you strive to get a high score or rank up to another level you are essentially doing the whole getting achievements (or trophies) deal
Try progressing in most rpgs without leveling up.

If you manage to do this please record a video, upload it and send me the link. I would enjoy that.

Achievements rarely if ever have this effect in actual gameplay.
 

justnotcricket

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Apr 24, 2008
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Tom Goldman said:
...

Achievements are the most fun when they're surprising, like when you kill 5 enemies with a single explosion in Uncharted 2 [http://www.amazon.com/UNCHARTED-2-Among-Thieves-Playstation-3/dp/B002I0F5I2] and are given a trophy.
...
This is what I like best about trophies - when you do something (usually unintentionally) and you get a little reward for it, hopefully with a funny tagline - or, you get a funny achievement for doing something stupid.

Otherwise achievements are pretty unimportant to me, so I can understand if Nintendo isn't quite ready to jump on board with them yet. All the same, I get a little disappointed when you play a game where all the achievements are pretty generic, like 'get 100 headshots' or 'complete all levels'. I feel like there's nothing to encourage me (why, hello, Trinen) to explore and do crazy things to see if something pops up.
 

TiefBlau

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To put it plainly, if you need a list of imaginary rewards to encourage people to explore your game, it's not a bonus; it's shitty design. Or uncreative players. Probably both.

An achievement system in Minecraft, for example, would be exactly as it sounds: Superfluous shit. Minecraft is a game that naturally inclines players to undertake ridiculous tasks like Yahtzee's favorite phallic golden monuments.

Outside of sandboxes, why the hell do you need to tell people how to play your game? It's disruptive in multiplayer, and anyone genuinely interested in doing whatever it asks you to do would have done it without the little prize attached to it.

Achievements are always, without exception, one of two things: A) A joke, or B) A way to get people to play your game long after it stopped being fun.
 

The Hungry Samurai

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I understand the one person who points out that some achievements will force a person to play poorly in a team co-op environment but on the opposite end of the spectrum there are also achievements that will encourage a player to work harder as part of a team (look at some of the group based achievements in the Rock Band series) You can't fault the Achievement system in these cases, the issue is the developer.

I still don't understand why calling achievements imaginary and mythical is an insult. Last I checked we weren't getting anything physical for completing any other aspect of a game. Isn't everything we get out of games imaginary and mythical? In the long run we basically play for one of three reasons.

1. To see the end of the game's plot or to reach some satisfactory point in the games narrative.

2. to vicariously experience something that is simulated in the game.

3. To be better at the game, usually for the sake of saying that we're better than other players. Ie. Bragging rights.

Achievements don't help with the first two but they provide and optional and engaging method of satisfying the third. One that makes for bragging rights you can easily quantify and unlike the scoring systems of most games, one that will follow you throughout other gaming experiences long after you've put a game down and moved onto the next. It does all this without putting pressure on the gamer, or adding much to the workload of the developer.

I just don't see the point of criticizing this.
 

duchaked

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Ericb said:
duchaked said:
any time you strive to get a high score or rank up to another level you are essentially doing the whole getting achievements (or trophies) deal
Try progressing in most rpgs without leveling up.

If you manage to do this please record a video, upload it and send me the link. I would enjoy that.

Achievements rarely if ever have this effect in actual gameplay.
did I offend you?
like seriously?
hope not, kinda, wasn't trying to
so don't get upset
don't get mad
cuz it really wasn't a dig at rpgs
I really just meant like level 2 of tetris or something else equally arbitrary
don't let things get to you like that, man

I mean, feel like there are more people who get off going "ohh man acheivements are teh gayz" than those who actually whore them
maybe, idk but it's whatever haha idc really. to each his own.
 

Ericb

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duchaked said:
did I offend you?
No, I was answering your argument.

I cited JRPGs because the majority ties their level systems directly with the difficulty of gameplay.

duchaked said:
I really just meant like level 2 of tetris or something else equally arbitrary
Which was precisely my point: It isn't arbitrary.

Continuing with your example. The further you advance in Tetris, the harder is gets. Up to a point where you cannot even play anymore.

It's directly affecting the gameplay and by consequence, the experience.

Achievements do not direcly affect the experience. I believe this user summed it up in a clear way:

TiefBlau said:
To put it plainly, if you need a list of imaginary rewards to encourage people to explore your game, it's not a bonus; it's shitty design. Or uncreative players. Probably both.

(...)

Achievements are always, without exception, one of two things: A) A joke, or B) A way to get people to play your game long after it stopped being fun.
 

MB202

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...I'm fine with that. I don't care much for achievements, anyway. Unlocking stuff is fine, but working stuff for just an achievement and "bragging rights". Yeah, no.
 

Ghostkai

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Gamerscore/PS Trophies are very silly and pointless yes.

Achievements are not, when I think about all the games I have gone that extra mile for getting something hard, I am thankful for them. Like some of the harder Left 4 Dead chievos for example, I felt a serious feeling of accomplishment and a better player for it.

Or ME2 on Insanity, or all the Spec Ops in MW2 on veteran.

But the whole "score" system on PS and Xbox I disagree with entirely.
 

The Hungry Samurai

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Ericb said:
duchaked said:
any time you strive to get a high score or rank up to another level you are essentially doing the whole getting achievements (or trophies) deal
Try progressing in most rpgs without leveling up.

If you manage to do this please record a video, upload it and send me the link. I would enjoy that.

Achievements rarely if ever have this effect in actual gameplay.
You are aware if something like that were possible in a game there's a good chance you'd earn an achievement for it, and it'd probably be a lot easier to show you the achievement than to make a video ;)
 

Ericb

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The Hungry Samurai said:
You are aware if something like that were possible in a game there's a good chance you'd earn an achievement for it, and it'd probably be a lot easier to show you the achievement than to make a video ;)
I'd much rather enjoy the game's possibilities by exploring and immersing myself in the experience than to be taken out of it by a mere voucher for bragging.
 

The Hungry Samurai

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Ericb said:
The Hungry Samurai said:
You are aware if something like that were possible in a game there's a good chance you'd earn an achievement for it, and it'd probably be a lot easier to show you the achievement than to make a video ;)
I'd much rather enjoy the game's possibilities by exploring and immersing myself in the experience than to be taken out of it by a mere voucher for bragging.
You're so right, I forgot that Achievements prevent you from doing anything to that effect.
 

Ericb

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The Hungry Samurai said:
You're so right, I forgot that Achievements prevent you from doing anything to that effect.
They do when they show a symbol and sound warning which have nothing to do with the game's audio-visual design.

The option to disable it stops from it being a bigger problem though.
 

euro2019

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If achievements gave me points toward something I could use thats great. But achievements are so FREAKIN useless! The best they can show is that you have wayyy too much time on your hands if you have them all.
 

Wolfpocalypse

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humm i was a big fan of the trophies in smash bros. they felt like they were actually worth winning, there were tons and tons of them and they were literally thrown at you from the start.. if nintendo replicated this in other games in a similar way to achievements id love it. also ited be nice if achievements were actually worth jack shit instead of just being a number!