Nintendo continue to protect your eyes from disgusting female form.

[The Bucket]

Snip

More like pointing out that it's wank material and not some bastion of freedom of speech. I imagine it's connected to annoyance that people get angry only when it's censorship affecting T&A

See, that's what I mean. It's an attempt to dismiss it as unimportant.

Also I fail to see how that connects to male vs female masturbation.

Because anything sexual for women is always held up proudly as "empowering" rather than used to stifle discussion as is happening here. It's the usual double standard of third wave feminism.

Nobodys brought up feminism to be fair, its kind of an unrelated double standard

Snip

That's a fair argument.

What gets me mad is that when that happened, I made a thread bringing it up and absolutely no one cared. Plus no one has actually said that they were actually against that change, not that I've seen anyway.

Plus there's the fact I can count the number of instances were complaints about censorship weren't about female T&A on my hands. People just don't care if tits and ass of the female variety aren't involved, which makes me struggle to take these complaints seriously.

Female stuff is probably number 1, but violence stuff does come up fairly regularly as well. There's a bit of a fuss being kicked up over some blood being removed from our version of God Eater.
Edit: Meant to add that as far as I can see censorship of males comes up extremely rarely. Games with manservice that target women (otome stuff and the like) dont tend to be as explicit as their counterparts

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Well locally I can see that, but I don't remember there being a stink being made about that online. Online people seem more concerned with T&A unless something really gets attention, like Hatred.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Well a bunch of people who normally get up in arms for censorship said that they were ok with the changes to that FF guy when I showed them it in a thread I made. So...yeah. They are hypocrites.

Oh I'm not getting on people for not fighting all censorship. I'm getting on them for never fighting censorship that doesn't directly affect something they don't like despite talking about how they always oppose censorship. Which they do.

I'm empty? Huh...I guess I am kinda hungry.

 

[FPLOON]

Huh... This feels so half-ass and/or inconsistent... I mean, JUST the cutscenes? At least do it for the gameplay as well...

Other than that, I almost laughed at the age-changing... because "young" teenagers exist...

 

[The Bucket]

Snip

Well a bunch of people who normally get up in arms for censorship said that they were ok with the changes to that FF guy when I showed them it in a thread I made. So...yeah. They are hypocrites.

Were they though? I was looking through the thread and most of the posts seemed to be people saying they were pretty sure the people who usually get up in arms about this sort of thing wouldn't since it was manservice. And i'm not familiar enough with the posting history of the people who said they were alright with it to know if they're hypocritical or not, but i'm pretty sure that I didn't see anyone in this thread in there. You can't really hold people that accountable for the hypocrisy of others.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Well a bunch of people who normally get up in arms for censorship said that they were ok with the changes to that FF guy when I showed them it in a thread I made. So...yeah. They are hypocrites.

Were they though? I was looking through the thread and most of the posts seemed to be people saying they were pretty sure the people who usually get up in arms about this sort of thing wouldn't since it was manservice. And i'm not familiar enough with the posting history of the people who said they were alright with it to know if they're hypocritical or not, but i'm pretty sure that I didn't see anyone in this thread in there. You can't really hold people that accountable for the hypocrisy of others.

I looked thought it again and people who normally complain about censorship of these kind of things just saying "It's not about sexiness, it's about making it look less stupid."

I'm calling people out for their hypocrisy, not anyone else's. The problem is that a lot of people tend to march to the beat of the same drum nowadays.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

*Looks back at thread*. Yep, that's why I tend to define censorship as requiring some form of outside, authoritative interference.

This is just Nintendo doing was Nintendo has literally always done. Though it'd be nice, if just for the change of pace, for one of these complaints to be about something other than minor costume changes or sexual weeb bullshit.

I will cite this "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon", well that statement has never been more correct in the fight against censorship and you are looking at someone who consumed fanservice games and anime by the buttload in the past.

In this situation though, it seems like the censorship only gotten a lot heavier after Iwata bought the farm. It is like the censorship is more about placating the press than the ESRB who honestly have seen it all. But the scores of the press means more to Nintendo than the rating.

And as a side burn, Nintendo doesn't want to share the fate of the Vita as the handheld that has one of the worst reputations library wise.

Snip

Well locally I can see that, but I don't remember there being a stink being made about that online. Online people seem more concerned with T&A unless something really gets attention, like Hatred.

Or fighting for games that would give Japan brownie points like Yakuza series, the number of shrill supporters for t&a is much louder than the guy who was mulling over how we struggled to get Y5 localized.

 

[EternallyBored]

*Looks back at thread*. Yep, that's why I tend to define censorship as requiring some form of outside, authoritative interference.

This is just Nintendo doing was Nintendo has literally always done. Though it'd be nice, if just for the change of pace, for one of these complaints to be about something other than minor costume changes or sexual weeb bullshit.

I will cite this "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon", well that statement has never been more correct in the fight against censorship and you are looking at someone who consumed fanservice games and anime by the buttload in the past.

In this situation though, it seems like the censorship only gotten a lot heavier after Iwata bought the farm. It is like the censorship is more about placating the press than the ESRB who honestly have seen it all. But the scores of the press means more to Nintendo than the rating.

And as a side burn, Nintendo doesn't want to share the fate of the Vita as the handheld that has one of the worst reputations library wise.

Isn't the Vita's library reputation mostly because it has little support, few really good exclusive titles, and a whole shitload of ports of mediocre JRPGs and indie games from Steam? I don't think Nintendo being the same kind of paranoid company obsessed with being family friendly that its always been is indicative of them trying to avoid a reputation problem that the Vita has.

Also, seriously doubt Iwata has jack or shit to do with any of Nintendo's recent localizations. The bulk of which were decided on or happened while Iwata was still alive like the original Bravely default or the Fire Emblem changes, definitely the costume changes for awakening, and possibly for the decision making process on Fates. I am skeptical that Iwata would have any major influence on localization, especially considering Nintendo used to be far more heavy handed when it came to bringing those types of games to the U.S., for the longest time Nintendo just flat out refused to let anything too risque on its handhelds. We are seeing more of this type of stuff because Nintendo is actually bothering to release, publish, or attract games that use to stay exclusively on other consoles.

Going back further, at least we aren't dealing with NES era Nintendo, the one that thought they needed to remove any references to crosses or Christianity from their games before bringing them to the West, or they're tyrannical seal of quality demands on third party games.

 

[WindKnight]

Huh... This feels so half-ass and/or inconsistent... I mean, JUST the cutscenes? At least do it for the gameplay as well...

Other than that, I almost laughed at the age-changing... because "young" teenagers exist...

Age changes are generally to get around depictions of minors doing stuff that would actively break laws if shown - ie, all teens in hentai are '18' in western releases, otherwise the work would be banned for pornographic depiction of minors

 

[Something Amyss]

Oh, could it be that you social group needs to redefine some words in order to devalue opinions of an outgroup?

That doesn't even make sense, given my social group are predominantly gamers. It's the rest of the world that's rolling its eyes at these controversies. And given we have people unironically reciting "First They Came" as a warning over stories like these, I don't even seen how it's "devaluing" so much as "reporting reality."

But again, the notion that the word is being "redefined" implies language is not a living body. I would hope this was understood to be untrue. Language is constantly evolving.

It won't last.

This sort of linguistic "redefinition" has been happening for significantly longer than the United States has been a country. Hell, it's been around longer than the written word. I'm not sure why you think it won't last, but it will last longer than anyone on this website.

I think it might be more accurate to say "They changed something for the perceived (accurate or not) reason of not offending some group due to the suggestive content, whatever it might be."

Except, you know, the disparity between when Mevius/Mobius is actually deemed "too sexy" and when people start asserting Nintendo's reasons without evidence or good faith basis. That this is even coming up is exactly a case of how "censorship" is handled.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

*Looks back at thread*. Yep, that's why I tend to define censorship as requiring some form of outside, authoritative interference.

This is just Nintendo doing was Nintendo has literally always done. Though it'd be nice, if just for the change of pace, for one of these complaints to be about something other than minor costume changes or sexual weeb bullshit.

I will cite this "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon", well that statement has never been more correct in the fight against censorship and you are looking at someone who consumed fanservice games and anime by the buttload in the past.

In this situation though, it seems like the censorship only gotten a lot heavier after Iwata bought the farm. It is like the censorship is more about placating the press than the ESRB who honestly have seen it all. But the scores of the press means more to Nintendo than the rating.

And as a side burn, Nintendo doesn't want to share the fate of the Vita as the handheld that has one of the worst reputations library wise.

Isn't the Vita's library reputation mostly because it has little support, few really good exclusive titles, and a whole shitload of ports of mediocre JRPGs and indie games from Steam? I don't think Nintendo being the same kind of paranoid company obsessed with being family friendly that its always been is indicative of them trying to avoid a reputation problem that the Vita has.

Also, seriously doubt Iwata has jack or shit to do with any of Nintendo's recent localizations. The bulk of which were decided on or happened while Iwata was still alive like the original Bravely default or the Fire Emblem changes, definitely the costume changes for awakening, and possibly for the decision making process on Fates. I am skeptical that Iwata would have any major influence on localization, especially considering Nintendo used to be far more heavy handed when it came to bringing those types of games to the U.S., for the longest time Nintendo just flat out refused to let anything too risque on its handhelds. We are seeing more of this type of stuff because Nintendo is actually bothering to release, publish, or attract games that use to stay exclusively on other consoles.

Going back further, at least we aren't dealing with NES era Nintendo, the one that thought they needed to remove any references to crosses or Christianity from their games before bringing them to the West, or they're tyrannical seal of quality demands on third party games.

Well their main franchises was skirting dangerously close to Vita's level of perverseness, the touching mechanic was just a taste of what the Vita did with it's pantsu quests, better to nip the problem in the bud before it got out of control and FE Fates gets lumped with those JRPGs because frankly Destructoid among other reviewers have been on a warpath.

And given how most of the announcements came after Kimishima became CEO shows that Kimishima plans to be more heavy handed than Iwata was, and not because it is to be kid friendly because we are past that stage in the game industry as kids buy COD. But Kimishima wishes to stay in the good graces of reviewers who are more concerned about sexual content than the ESRB and have the threat of giving bad reviews to reinforce that.

 

[Something Amyss]

In this situation though, it seems like the censorship only gotten a lot heavier after Iwata bought the farm.

No, outrage over it has gone up. There's no real evidence of an increase, and no real evidence of a Nintendo-specific increase.

 

[Frankster]

Wow. This has got to be the most ridiculous change i've seen in a while.

Also I remember there's an escapist member who usually likes to snark in gender debates "lulz silly people "they" ain't after your boobs!". Well whoever that was and if they are reading this, see above image and never ever say that again.

Anyways the (female) friend I know who was going to buy this game is gonna vote with her wallet and not get this game now, we shall see if she's an isolated case or representative of the mood of the core audience for this game.

This falls in the area of 'western culture views sexuality differently than Japan' so they changed it to fit our culture more. It's nothing new really.

Allright can we please stop repeating this BS? It's not "western culture", it's "ANGLO SAXON" culture, and apparently some nordic cultures too. But most of Europe or at very least countries i'm personally familiar like with France or Spain, they really ain't as big prudes like americans are. Eastern Europe has repeatedly shown itself to be a bastion of anti prudishness and in France we show boobs to kids for crying out loud and have naked people on billboards without anyone batting an eye. So americans, please stop thinking the entire west is like you and saying "western audience" when actually, it's mostly for you guys that these changes are seen to be necessary.

Keep in mind, when they changed the design of Mobius Final Fantasy's main character to make them less sexy, there was no howling cry about censorship.. because said character was male. Funny that, making women less sexy is bad to these people, but making men less sexy is totally ok.

Yes Windknight, I'm sure THAT is the reason.
Friggin hypocrites, how dare a gaming population that seems much more into women not show the same level of fervor when it comes to males, it's almost like they have preferred taste when it comes to gender or something....
Am I really going to have to start defending cases of male cheesecake I care not for (nor have i ever heard of in the case of your example) in order to justify my liking of female cheesecake now and ward off snarky implications of hypocrisy? Keep fighting that gender war soldier!

 

[EternallyBored]

In this situation though, it seems like the censorship only gotten a lot heavier after Iwata bought the farm.

No, outrage over it has gone up. There's no real evidence of an increase, and no real evidence of a Nintendo-specific increase.

In nintendo's case I would say there has been an increase in them changing stuff to reduce fan service in their own games, but not because of any managerial change, it's because Nintendo only recently started getting involved in games with traditional anime fan service.

Look at the games Nintendo was releasing 10 years ago, there was almost nothing even a little titillating in nature, Nintendo just flat out didn't get involved in those types of games. The few exceptions were things like Bayonetta 2, which was designed to be M rated from the start, or metroid: Other M which even with all its fan service, Samus never appeared in anything skimpier than her full body suit.

Until Awakening, Nintendo pretty much just never published or bothered with games with anime style fan service in them.

 

[WindKnight]

Keep in mind, when they changed the design of Mobius Final Fantasy's main character to make them less sexy, there was no howling cry about censorship.. because said character was male. Funny that, making women less sexy is bad to these people, but making men less sexy is totally ok.

Yes Windknight, I'm sure THAT is the reason.
Friggin hypocrites, how dare a gaming population that seems much more into women not show the same level of fervor when it comes to males, it's almost like they have preferred taste when it comes to gender or something....
Am I really going to have to start defending cases of male cheesecake I care not for (nor have i ever heard of in the case of your example) in order to justify my liking of female cheesecake now and ward off snarky implications of hypocrisy? Keep fighting that gender war soldier!

Well, yes. If your claiming to fight for 'freedom of speech' and 'artistic freedom' and invoking 'censorship' as a boogieman, you kind of have to defend stuff your not interested in or don't like to not be a hypocrite.

Or you could just be honest that you only care about dem titties, but that doesn't sounds as noble a rallying cry.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I sure am glad I learned Japanese, now if only nintendo would stop region locking their damn systems.


Regarding the censored male char, I bet most people were simply unaware of it. Back when Bravely Default had Ringabel and his speedo removed alongside the bravo bikini I didn't see anybody say they were fine with the speedo bein gone and only minded the bikini's removal. Keep in mind, nobody gives a damn about moebius, in general, so the chances of people caring enough to notice stuff about it being chaged are slim.

 

[Frankster]

Well, yes. If your claiming to fight for 'freedom of speech' and 'artistic freedom' and invoking 'censorship' as a boogieman, you kind of have to defend stuff your not interested in or don't like to not be a hypocrite.

Or you could just be honest that you only care about dem titties, but that doesn't sounds as noble a rallying cry.

I feel like I'm missing some valuable context because I have no idea where this is coming from.

All I can do is shrug my shoulders and assure you, I have never claimed those things and have always been forthcoming about my love of cheesecakes and dem titties.

As for dismissal of censorship as a boogieman.. *looks up picture he linked where a vneck or w/e you call it is obscured in smoke* For a fictional entity this boogieman is looking pretty damned real from where I'm standing.

 

[EternallyBored]

Well their main franchises was skirting dangerously close to Vita's level of perverseness, the touching mechanic was just a taste of what the Vita did with it's pantsu quests, better to nip the problem in the bud before it got out of control and FE Fates gets lumped with those JRPGs because frankly Destructoid among other reviewers have been on a warpath.

And given how most of the announcements came after Kimishima became CEO shows that Kimishima plans to be more heavy handed than Iwata was, and not because it is to be kid friendly because we are past that stage in the game industry as kids buy COD. But Kimishima wishes to stay in the good graces of reviewers who are more concerned about sexual content than the ESRB and have the threat of giving bad reviews to reinforce that.

Franchise, singular, as in Fire Emblem was the only one, and it was only the touching minigame, and calling Fire Emblem one of Nintendo's main franchises is a bit of a stretch, maybe now that Fates has sold so well we might see Nintendo give it more attention, but the Series was pretty much dead in the West before Awakening.

Also, just because you say it doesn't make it true, how many announcements came out before Iwata's death versus after? Awakening, Xenoblade, and Bravely Default were all altered under Iwata, now how many since then? Bravely second, Fates, and Xenoblade Chronicles X, so the exact same series that were altered under Iwata's watch. Where's the increase? Other than removing the touching minigame its the same types of changes they made while Iwata was in charge, and that's because Awakening didn't have that minigame at all.

so again, where is the increase? and how is it any different for Nintendo considering that this type of fanservice is new for Nintendo as in the last 6 years or so, before that fan service in Nintendo published games was exceedingly rare, that's part of why Nintendo publishing Bayonetta 2 was considered news, that and Nintendo's propensity for avoiding an M rated at all costs.

I find it hard to believe your points when they involve shrugging off Nintendo's obsession with being family friendly, which is still in full effect today, so that you can portray Nintendo as scared of Western media. I'm not even going to get into that in depth until we've established where you think this increase in changes is coming from after Iwata's death, because I'm still failing to see that.

 

[CaitSeith]

And then there's more narrow parlance. In gaming circles, "censorship" appears to mean "they changed something in a way I don't like."

I think it might be more accurate to say "They changed something for the perceived (accurate or not) reason of not offending some group due to the suggestive content, whatever it might be." Some people do simply point out the change, like the OP here, trying to point out the contradictory nature of their alterations, missing some parts, but not others, etc. The OP doesn't seem offended by it, more so confused at the inconsistency of it I think.

Granted, most of the people who then respond to such threads tend to fall into the "changed it in a way I don't like" category, but it's not always the case.

Keep in mind, when they changed the design of Mobius Final Fantasy's main character to make them less sexy, there was no howling cry about censorship.. because said character was male. Funny that, making women less sexy is bad to these people, but making men less sexy is totally ok.

There is also that the game is for Android/iOS only, and thus it went under everyone's radar. You need a better example than that.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

And then there's more narrow parlance. In gaming circles, "censorship" appears to mean "they changed something in a way I don't like."

I think it might be more accurate to say "They changed something for the perceived (accurate or not) reason of not offending some group due to the suggestive content, whatever it might be." Some people do simply point out the change, like the OP here, trying to point out the contradictory nature of their alterations, missing some parts, but not others, etc. The OP doesn't seem offended by it, more so confused at the inconsistency of it I think.

Granted, most of the people who then respond to such threads tend to fall into the "changed it in a way I don't like" category, but it's not always the case.

Keep in mind, when they changed the design of Mobius Final Fantasy's main character to make them less sexy, there was no howling cry about censorship.. because said character was male. Funny that, making women less sexy is bad to these people, but making men less sexy is totally ok.

There is also that the game is for Android/iOS only, and thus it went under everyone's radar. You need a better example than that.

Yep, too true, most fans consider phone games as worthles trash so they wouldn't notice the changes and even if they did the game already had so little value that even censored it couldn't be made worse and when people are agitated it is because the games they value are being worsened. Censorship is the way through which they are worsened but it is this worsening that is the core issue here.