Nintendo on Supply Issues: "Sometimes we Get it Wrong"

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
Gee, wouldn't it be great if there was a little thing called "market research" that - when done properly - would give you a much better ballpark idea of what the demand for your product is going to be as opposed to creating a grey market of scalpers that are getting rich off of your inability to properly gauge the demand for your own product? Too bad no such thing exists...

Bad Player said:
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
It's also almost like if you have a range of estimates for what the demand will be for your product that is used long-term by consumers and is in a highly differentiated market, it's safer to producer according to a lower estimate rather than higher, since if you undersupply you'll likely be able to sell the same amount over the long run whereas if you oversupply you'll end up losing money on your unsold units.

But nah, this is all way too silly.
It's also almost like if you do your market research properly you'll meet the demand with a possibility of overproducing for the initial launch, at which point you slow things down and allow the market to catch up with the supply on the shelves. During this period you engage in more market research to determine how much demand still needs to be met, how much saturation your product has, various other things that gauge how big or small your second wave should be.

But nah, simple economics and business models are too silly to go by. Best to allow 3rd party sellers to make profit off of our work.

Look, here's why Nintendo is doing this. They got bit in the ass when the WiiU flopped on it's face and you couldn't give the damn things away. It's a case of "once bitten twice shy". Here's the problem, though: Nintendo took the wrong lesson away from the WiiU. The WiiU was sitting on the shelf collecting dust not because it was overproduced, but rather because it was a very poorly marketed system that had very little 3rd party development which meant there were very few games available for it. As such: it wasn't an appealing buy. Nintendo apparently took that as a slap in the face, evidently coming away with an attitude of "I guess no one likes our stuff anymore! I guess we shouldn't make as many."

Wrong. If you make quality products, people are going to want to buy them. Breath of the Wild is as close to a perfect definition/example of a "System Seller" as you're ever going to find...just a shame that it was so hard for people to find one of the shiny new systems to play it on. And if your company is too blind to see that, then you need - say it with me now - "better market research."
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
14,885
732
118
Eh, ok, Nintendo has been wrong about this a few times, sure.

But, as business mistakes go "didn't realise their product would sell so well"...that's hard for me to get worked up about. They aren't ripping off consumers, or influencing politicians or anything dodgy, they are just failing to earn as money as they could.
 

hermes

New member
Mar 2, 2009
3,865
0
0
Give Nintendo a break... they are the new kids, still trying to figure it out; they have very little experience with releasing consoles, so it is natural that they get it wrong... sometimes.
 

hermes

New member
Mar 2, 2009
3,865
0
0
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
Of course there are limits. Everyone knows Nintendo products are made by hand by elves in the North pole, and we can't push elves to work more than 8 hours shifts, or have more than one shift per day; otherwise their magic powers will resent...
Also, to underestimate the demand of a new console is something that happens all the time. It is not like Nintendo is the only one of the big three that consistently makes that mistake for the couple decades...
 

Zontar

Mad Max 2019
Feb 18, 2013
4,931
0
0
RaikuFA said:
Zontar said:
RJ 17 said:
"Sometimes" you get it wrong? You got it wrong with Amiibos. You got it wrong with NES Classics. You got it wrong with Switches. I've got a strong feeling you're going to "get it wrong" with the SNES Classic.
Don't forget the Wii, that thing could have outsold the PS2 had they actually kept a proper supply of it when the thing was selling out around the world. That's when they consistently started having supply problems.
Don't forget someone died trying to win one. Plus, this issue can go back to the NES with Mario 2 and Zelda 2. The pulled the same shit with Earthbound.
With those titles given the era I can say that it was at least justifiable that they'd underestimate demand, but after the absolute failure that was the Wii's launch you'd think they'd have realised people actually *gasp* want their games.
 

Sniper Team 4

New member
Apr 28, 2010
5,433
0
0
Honestly trying to think of the last time Nintendo got it "right" with a high demand item. And...the N64 is the only thing I can think of.

Day one sell-outs are part of the business. I get it. But months later, and it's still pretty hard to find a Switch, and the Classic NES I have never seen in person. The Wii was a nightmare for a full year, and those Amiibos are just crazy.

So tell me, Nintendo, when do you get it right? No, the WiiU doesn't count because that wasn't in high demand. You don't seem to have problems keeping your games in stock, so...?
 

Smithnikov_v1legacy

New member
May 7, 2016
1,020
0
0
>>"We get it right more times than we get it wrong. But sometimes we get it wrong,"

You know, if I used that as an excuse where I worked, I'd be fired...but somehow others can get away with it and still make more money.

I am some kind of stupid, man...
 

FoolKiller

New member
Feb 8, 2008
2,409
0
0
Smithnikov said:
>>"We get it right more times than we get it wrong. But sometimes we get it wrong,"

You know, if I used that as an excuse where I worked, I'd be fired...but somehow others can get away with it and still make more money.

I am some kind of stupid, man...
Baseball player has an even better time hitting. They get base hits 30% of the time and thats considered excellent
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
4,828
0
0
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
Bad Player said:
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
It's also almost like if you have a range of estimates for what the demand will be for your product that is used long-term by consumers and is in a highly differentiated market, it's safer to producer according to a lower estimate rather than higher, since if you undersupply you'll likely be able to sell the same amount over the long run whereas if you oversupply you'll end up losing money on your unsold units.

But nah, this is all way too silly.
And yet Sony and Microsoft don't have this problem...
 

AzrealMaximillion

New member
Jan 20, 2010
3,216
0
0
Fox12 said:
And yet Sony and Microsoft don't have this problem...
This. The PS2, highest selling console of all time, did not have this problem. How is Nintendo having this problem for now 4 console launches in a row and Amiibos?

And why are people still covering for them?
 

darkrage6

New member
May 11, 2016
478
0
0
RJ 17 said:
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
Gee, wouldn't it be great if there was a little thing called "market research" that - when done properly - would give you a much better ballpark idea of what the demand for your product is going to be as opposed to creating a grey market of scalpers that are getting rich off of your inability to properly gauge the demand for your own product? Too bad no such thing exists...

Bad Player said:
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
It's also almost like if you have a range of estimates for what the demand will be for your product that is used long-term by consumers and is in a highly differentiated market, it's safer to producer according to a lower estimate rather than higher, since if you undersupply you'll likely be able to sell the same amount over the long run whereas if you oversupply you'll end up losing money on your unsold units.

But nah, this is all way too silly.
It's also almost like if you do your market research properly you'll meet the demand with a possibility of overproducing for the initial launch, at which point you slow things down and allow the market to catch up with the supply on the shelves. During this period you engage in more market research to determine how much demand still needs to be met, how much saturation your product has, various other things that gauge how big or small your second wave should be.

But nah, simple economics and business models are too silly to go by. Best to allow 3rd party sellers to make profit off of our work.

Look, here's why Nintendo is doing this. They got bit in the ass when the WiiU flopped on it's face and you couldn't give the damn things away. It's a case of "once bitten twice shy". Here's the problem, though: Nintendo took the wrong lesson away from the WiiU. The WiiU was sitting on the shelf collecting dust not because it was overproduced, but rather because it was a very poorly marketed system that had very little 3rd party development which meant there were very few games available for it. As such: it wasn't an appealing buy. Nintendo apparently took that as a slap in the face, evidently coming away with an attitude of "I guess no one likes our stuff anymore! I guess we shouldn't make as many."

Wrong. If you make quality products, people are going to want to buy them. Breath of the Wild is as close to a perfect definition/example of a "System Seller" as you're ever going to find...just a shame that it was so hard for people to find one of the shiny new systems to play it on. And if your company is too blind to see that, then you need - say it with me now - "better market research."
Breath of the Wild also came out on Wii U, to me a system seller is an exclusive title.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
1,146
0
0
AzrealMaximillion said:
Fox12 said:
And yet Sony and Microsoft don't have this problem...
This. The PS2, highest selling console of all time, did not have this problem. How is Nintendo having this problem for now 4 console launches in a row and Amiibos?

And why are people still covering for them?
...because they (well, at least Sony) do? Did...did people forget that Sony had huge supply issues during the PS4 launch? It took them 4 months before supply caught up with demand, it's the big reason why the PS4 had such a high launch because Sony was cranking them out as fast as possible. Xbox didn't have this problem but staggered their launch out and the 360 had Microsoft outright say they were restricting launch numbers. So no, Nintendo doesn't "get away with it". If anything, Sony gets away with it. You know, like with VR, the Vita, the PSP, and another Sony products that have huge supply issues at launch.

Also, Nintendo has repeatedly stated that they have broken record launch sales for this device. So, what everyone here is trying to say is that, despite them coming off of the Wii U, despite everyone on this forum screaming that this would not sell at all, and despite them still making more units than any other launch because the market research, they were supposed to be psychic gods and just automatically know how popular the Switch is that even though the made more units than the Xbox One's launch.

Sniper Team 4 said:
Honestly trying to think of the last time Nintendo got it "right" with a high demand item. And...the N64 is the only thing I can think of.

Day one sell-outs are part of the business. I get it. But months later, and it's still pretty hard to find a Switch, and the Classic NES I have never seen in person. The Wii was a nightmare for a full year, and those Amiibos are just crazy.

So tell me, Nintendo, when do you get it right? No, the WiiU doesn't count because that wasn't in high demand. You don't seem to have problems keeping your games in stock, so...?
You're right, the Wii was a nightmare for a full year because demand kept increasing for that full year! They sold more Wii's in that year than every other console combined! Please tell me how this is somehow a sign that Nintendo just "gets it wrong". You really think Nintendo just should have known to make more consoles than every other one combined? Really?

Furthermore, the N64 wasn't a high demand item, the winner of that year was the PS1 by a considerable margin. No one predicted how insane the Wii would be and no in predicted how successful the Switch currently is.
RJ 17 said:
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
Gee, wouldn't it be great if there was a little thing called "market research" that - when done properly - would give you a much better ballpark idea of what the demand for your product is going to be as opposed to creating a grey market of scalpers that are getting rich off of your inability to properly gauge the demand for your own product? Too bad no such thing exists...

Bad Player said:
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
It's also almost like if you have a range of estimates for what the demand will be for your product that is used long-term by consumers and is in a highly differentiated market, it's safer to producer according to a lower estimate rather than higher, since if you undersupply you'll likely be able to sell the same amount over the long run whereas if you oversupply you'll end up losing money on your unsold units.

But nah, this is all way too silly.
It's also almost like if you do your market research properly you'll meet the demand with a possibility of overproducing for the initial launch, at which point you slow things down and allow the market to catch up with the supply on the shelves. During this period you engage in more market research to determine how much demand still needs to be met, how much saturation your product has, various other things that gauge how big or small your second wave should be.

But nah, simple economics and business models are too silly to go by. Best to allow 3rd party sellers to make profit off of our work.

Look, here's why Nintendo is doing this. They got bit in the ass when the WiiU flopped on it's face and you couldn't give the damn things away. It's a case of "once bitten twice shy". Here's the problem, though: Nintendo took the wrong lesson away from the WiiU. The WiiU was sitting on the shelf collecting dust not because it was overproduced, but rather because it was a very poorly marketed system that had very little 3rd party development which meant there were very few games available for it. As such: it wasn't an appealing buy. Nintendo apparently took that as a slap in the face, evidently coming away with an attitude of "I guess no one likes our stuff anymore! I guess we shouldn't make as many."

Wrong. If you make quality products, people are going to want to buy them. Breath of the Wild is as close to a perfect definition/example of a "System Seller" as you're ever going to find...just a shame that it was so hard for people to find one of the shiny new systems to play it on. And if your company is too blind to see that, then you need - say it with me now - "better market research."
Once again, Nintendo produced more Switch units for launch than the Xbox One, more launch units than any previous Nintendo product, and yet still demand was so high it still routinely sells out. You think market research could predict this? Market research from over half the internet was screaming the damned thing would be dead on arrival. Now that it IS a success, you all are now turning around and screaming that its success should be obvious? (With a good helping of "this will fail in a few months, just wait" on the side) No, Nintendo doesn't get away with anything. If anything, they get piled on more than Sony or Microsoft does when it comes to decisions.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
15,489
0
0
xaszatm said:
Been through half the internet, have you? Where ever do the Nintendo faithful that stomp on every negative comment come from, then? Surely, the research shows there to be tons of them. I think perhaps you misrepresent what the population says and does, and you owe some apologies...to half the internet.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
1,146
0
0
FalloutJack said:
xaszatm said:
Been through half the internet, have you? Where ever do the Nintendo faithful that stomp on every negative comment come from, then? Surely, the research shows there to be tons of them. I think perhaps you misrepresent what the population says and does, and you owe some apologies...to half the internet.
Neogaf, Gamefaqs, this website, Kotaku, Destructiod, 4chan, and many other sites were dogpiling Nintendo for the Switch since the January reveal. Screaming that the presentation proved how tone-deaf Nintendo was, whining how Nintendo "betrayed" them for not doing what the rumors stated were doing, assuring top down that Nintendo was going to fail and fail hard on arrival with people openly declaring that the system would be lucky to sell 1 million copies total for the year. Now that it has been a success, these same people are piling on excuses after excuses how this success "doesn't count". So yeah, half of the internet who is into gaming (obviously it isn't half of the total internet) was hell bent on screaming Nintendo's downfall.

And I love how you're completely ignoring my points to result in a direct attack on semantics. It's almost as if every argument made against Nintendo on this current topic (the stock situation for the Switch) isn't merited and we're reduced to attacking words to get a rile out of people instead. But no, let's continue to push the narrative that Nintendo always purposefully limits stock to artificially create demand even though anyone with a basic economic knowledge knows how stupid and short-sighted such a plan that is on something so frivolous as a video game console.
 

CaptainMarvelous

New member
May 9, 2012
869
0
0
FalloutJack said:
xaszatm said:
Been through half the internet, have you? Where ever do the Nintendo faithful that stomp on every negative comment come from, then? Surely, the research shows there to be tons of them. I think perhaps you misrepresent what the population says and does, and you owe some apologies...to half the internet.
Would you do me a favour and just read this thread, maybe work out the ratio of supporters and detractors?

Can you see why this might be indicative of how Nintendo views their consumerbase? You get like one supporter for every five detractors.

You're really not the minority here, though I can't speak for the internet at large (and neither can YOU) Nintendo is a bit of a punching bag round these parts.
 

cikame

New member
Jun 11, 2008
585
0
0
This is just me spitting conspiracy, but i think they under-produce to avoid extra costs, Nintendo isn't as big as other hardware manufacturers so they're just being careful not to over do it. It's up to you whether you think that's right or not.
 

WeepingAngels

New member
May 18, 2013
1,722
0
0
Vausch said:
Gibbagobba said:
You'd think these guys would've learned from the Amibos fiasco, but apparently not. Good ol' papa Nintendo seriously needs to get their poop in a group.
No, they learned plenty from the Amiibos. "If we keep the supply short, it drives up demand and guarantees every unit we put out will sell!"
They learned that with the Wii.
 

WeepingAngels

New member
May 18, 2013
1,722
0
0
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
For a conservative corporation like Nintendo, releasing a product isn't just throwing it out there and hoping for the best. First they must do some research and determine if the demand is there. After they announced the NES Classic it was instantly clear that it was going to sell very well but while all of the internet saw that, Nintendo did not or they chose to ignore it.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
1,146
0
0
WeepingAngels said:
Aiddon said:
Gee, it's almost like there are only so many hours in the day to create units and that the only way you can truly gauge demand IS WHEN THE PRODUCT IS RELEASED. Not that people have ever let facts get in the way of gossip
For a conservative corporation like Nintendo, releasing a product isn't just throwing it out there and hoping for the best. First they must do some research and determine if the demand is there. After they announced the NES Classic it was instantly clear that it was going to sell very well but while all of the internet saw that, Nintendo did not or they chose to ignore it.
Actually, the general consensus after the NES classic was announced was "Who the hell is going to buy this crap?" It wasn't until around a month before launch that hype really started to grow. As for actual marketing, the only real comparison were the official Sega Classic Plug & Play consoles which, if lucky, around 100k worldwide. Gee, I wonder why production for the NES Classic was such a low priority and supply was so low. Surely the market research that tells us one thing is actually secretly telling us something completely different.

cikame said:
This is just me spitting conspiracy, but i think they under-produce to avoid extra costs, Nintendo isn't as big as other hardware manufacturers so they're just being careful not to over do it. It's up to you whether you think that's right or not.
While they definitely are conservative with their initial supply (though only time they weren't was the Wii U and...yeah that didn't turn out too well for them), I would like to remind people that the Switch sold more units in its launch month than any other Nintendo console. They didn't purposefully undership this time. The demand is just this high.
 

Cid Silverwing

Paladin of The Light
Jul 27, 2008
3,134
0
0
No, Nintendo. You don't "sometimes" get it wrong. You get it wrong CONSTANTLY!

When did honest business practices become practically illegal?