"Nintendo won't survive without third-party support."

SilverBullets000

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xaszatm said:
No, seriously, explain to me what "growing up" means in this context.
Not that I'm in support of his views, but to me it would be the difference in aesthetic and attitude between, say, Sunshine's Mario and Melee's Mario. Reminds me of the reason I was disappointed after they dropped Super Mario RPG's aesthetic to go to overly simplistic and nonthreatening designs.

Then again, I've come to mostly love those designs, so I guess it all worked out in the end.

OT: Another one of these, eh? I mostly disagree, especially in regards to EA and Ubisoft. Still, just because they aren't getting support from the west doesn't mean they aren't getting it at all.
 

Xman490

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Silentpony said:
Nintendo thinks of itself as some venerable king of the industry, who descends from Mount Japan to deliver to us dirty Westerners yet another Mario/Zelda/Pokemon game. If you love playing the same game over and over, then Nintendo is your wet-dream! But if you're looking for diversity, of getting a wide variety of games, then no, Nintendo is not for you.
While the same can't be said for main-series Pokemon and 2D Mario, almost all of the Super Mario games and Legend of Zelda games have had far different themes and noticeably different movement physics. Their core mechanics remain untouched, but that's because they are established, simple, and fun for most people. Not everyone finds them fun; exceptions apparently include you and Yahtzee.
 

Rozalia1

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Aiddon said:
I would say at the end of the day, if 3rd parties fail on Nintendo systems, it's because of their own actions, not because of Nintendo. And this is especially true when you have people like Platinum Games, Koei-Tecmo, or the plethora of indie devs who have had nothing but praise for Nintendo's relations (such as Yacht Club Games with Shovel Knight). Furthermore, when games like SMTIV, Etrian Odyssey, RE: Revelations, and Monster Hunter can thrive on the 3DS, it's obviously not because of Nintendo that 3rd parties fail. Though at this rate Nintendo is pretty much making 3rd parties redundant which might be the smarter option. Become less dependent on a sector of the industry that's proven unreliable and unprofessional so you don't have to take the fall for their mistakes which they are no blaming you for.
Exactly. Plenty of third parties exist that successfully put their games on the Wii U, but as they are practically unknown when compared to the EAs, and Ubisofts this claim that Nintendo has no third party support is propagated.

Zachary Amaranth said:
And at that point, it also means many gamers have to choose between the different games they want. The problem for Nintendo is when they come up on the "less than" side of the equation.

Funny you should wrestling terminology, because Nintendo really does remind me of Vince McMahon. A single success is all it took to convince Vince he was PT freaking Barnum, and he's spent decades trying to tell fans what they want and losing most of the time. But because of periodic successes, he's often promoted as a "genius." Fortunately for both, there's a dedicated base that will prop them up, but the idea that either can just crank out hits is completely belied by the numbers.

Unfortunately, carnies and CEOs are both insular creatures by nature.
I'd say that their approach if it continues means their initial launch sales will suffer, but as time goes on they will pick up. Nintendo has plenty of quality, and because why not as everyone else does it and this'll delightfully piss them off...if you don't pick up Nintendo's (and the third parties that do support them with exclusives) than you aren't a "real gamer".
I'd not normally say such things but considering what people say of Nintendo I'll give them their own poison.

Artaneius said:
I really don't see the point in Nintendo or in fact any consoles anymore. What's the difference between Mario Kart for the SNES and 64 from the new Mario Kart? Besides prettier graphics, new characters, and items? What's the difference between the older Mario 2D games and the newer mario 2D games? Besides prettier graphics and new powerups? What's the difference between Mario 64 and newer 3D mario games? Besides prettier graphics, more characters, and new powerups?

That's the point. All were getting is the same games over and over and over that has small changes. When I can use an emulator and play all the older Marios, Zeldas, Metroids, etc. for free what is the damn point in buying a new one when it's going to be almost the exact same as previous games? Why would I waste money just buying the same experiences with a prettier paint job over and over? Same thing with CoD and any other abused cash cow. What's the point in Bayonetta when I can play the older one and not spend anymore money?

When I can have the original experiences for free, these companies not just Nintendo need to start creating REAL incentives to continue buying their products.
So you see no point in new games at all than. How is that in anyway a console issue, why upgrade your PC if it can't give you "new experiences"? Originality is hard to do and when its done you can't replicate the same originality as its been done before.

The Escapist seems to have a very lax attitude towards emulation because a lot of people say what you do, and the simple fact of the matter is that it is illegal. Legal emulation on the PC isn't free as you either have to buy the game through a legal Online retailer, or you have to own the disc (though if you own the disc you don't need to pop in and instead can use it's extracted files) and console to get the BIOs from it (ever notice why emulators cover their arses by saying for you to use legal copies+BIOs?).

You might as well be saying: "When I can pirate games for free, why should I buy the products" with that.
 

Ipsen

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Artaneius said:
I really don't see the point in Nintendo or in fact any consoles anymore. What's the difference between Mario Kart for the SNES and 64 from the new Mario Kart? Besides prettier graphics, new characters, and items? What's the difference between the older Mario 2D games and the newer mario 2D games? Besides prettier graphics and new powerups? What's the difference between Mario 64 and newer 3D mario games? Besides prettier graphics, more characters, and new powerups?

That's the point. All were getting is the same games over and over and over that has small changes. When I can use an emulator and play all the older Marios, Zeldas, Metroids, etc. for free what is the damn point in buying a new one when it's going to be almost the exact same as previous games? Why would I waste money just buying the same experiences with a prettier paint job over and over? Same thing with CoD and any other abused cash cow. What's the point in Bayonetta when I can play the older one and not spend anymore money?

When I can have the original experiences for free, these companies not just Nintendo need to start creating REAL incentives to continue buying their products.
I think that, when we buy into sequels, spiritual successors, or whatever, we have a larger....'idea' of what the game is than what is presented in that one disc or cartridge. So, in going from one game to a quite similar sequel, we buy to explore new ideas injected into that 'idea of a game', from....well, the only people who are able/qualified to do so: the devs/publishers (that's a bit of an issue, I think, however).

It's perfectly valid that you can play 2D Mario or Zelda games, or so on forever because, just like any game, you the player will have to decide when you are bored with it. But if you can't see the idea of a game, then gods help you (stay interested in this medium).
 

Hairless Mammoth

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Nintendo might be able to survive without major third party support, but they will definitely have to downsize. The Wii U is still draining money; the 3DS is what keeps the profits going until the Wii U breaks even. They are a niche now, with their own IPs and consoles, and will remain so unless tons of third parties flock back to them for some reason.

People may be coming back to them for first party titles. They have some good choices out right now and will have more in the near future (They're finally dusting off Star Fox and hopefully haven't forgotten about Metroid or F Zero, which will really needs some dusting.), but a problem I see is they are riding on the Mario nostalgia train. They need to try a little more on the variety front. Nintendo pushes Mario and Pokemon games while giving almost no ad revenue or attention to other titles. I'd bet there are people who would be interested in games like Bayonetta 2 or ZombieU or one of Ninty's non-Mario IPs that have no idea they exist because they don't look for Nintendo games anymore and the Big N doesn't get the word out.

Another thing to consider is the next generation or two of handhelds. Phones are already becoming the mobile entertainment bricks of choice for many. It is likely the 3DS's successor or its successor will mostly be be bought for kids too young to own a small $400 slab of unprotected glass and circuits, with only a small percentage of the older crowd buying it, again, for the niche titles a Nintendo system offers. It too early to tell about that, but it's an obvious possibility. Look at the Vita. It is a powerful machine, comparable almost to PS3 level graphics, and most people are shunning it for either the 3DS or whatever they had on their phones. The 3DS is only doing well since a good amount of 1st and 3rd party games are available, it offers good control options to developers, and it is cheaper than buying a new cell phone, for those that wish not to upgrade. That could change as the market changes and cell tech drops in price.

Nintendo still needs to address the Wii U games issue more (They are doing something, but is it enough?) and watch out for their portable line's future in an ever changing economy. Any company or industry needs to adapt and evolve to keep up with the changing world. The stubborn old coots in charge might be able to keep a company going through a massive piggy bank, padding the wallets of their politician friends to keep the completion away via laws, or buy out the competitors, but in the end they will have to give in or give up.
 

keniakittykat

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VG_Addict said:
Adam Jensen said:
Nintendo's incompetence pisses me off. They have the best attitude towards games and their customers, but they're 8 years too late when it comes to hardware. Make a console capable of playing third party games, do some advertizing, buy a few exclusive titles. For fuck sake, do SOMETHING.
Do you not keep up with news? Nintendo HAS bought a few exclusive titles, like Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third.

Yeah, only when the Sony and microsoft said they weren't interested in those titles... It seems more like Nintendo gets their tablescraps.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Hairless Mammoth said:
Nintendo might be able to survive without major third party support, but they will definitely have to downsize.
Except, as history shows, people have been saying that for years...AND IT NEVER HAPPENS. Mostly because Nintendo knows to manage their finances properly and has never gotten into debt. Seriously we hear about layoffs at Sony, MS, EA, and Activision all the time...and NINTENDO is the one who might have to downsize? You're missing some valuable data there.

And this is really what gets me. This is what people used to say:

"Nintendo should go 3rd party!"

And they showed that was impossible. It then switched to:

"They should go handheld only!"

Except that's impossible as well due to their war chest, financial experience and expertise, and diversity in their IPs that ensures they can support not just a handheld, but also a home console. And now we have you claiming the above.

Seriously, how many times are people going to move the goalposts before they finally see the writing on the wall? Nintendo is not going anywhere. They are not in trouble, they are not going to drop hardware, they are not going to go handhelds only. It's time for people to stop pouting over the fact that Nintendo is around and is going to be around for many years to come.
 

Something Amyss

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AJ_Lethal said:
In that case is a petty ass 20-year grudge with a dead man (Yamaguchi).
Only if said dead man has been running the company for the last 20 years. Is that Nintendo's secret? Necromancy? Have they mastered the dark arts?

They've not been any friendlier to third parties in the intervening times. That's not a "grudge."

Rozalia1 said:
I'd say that their approach if it continues means their initial launch sales will suffer, but as time goes on they will pick up. Nintendo has plenty of quality, and because why not as everyone else does it and this'll delightfully piss them off...if you don't pick up Nintendo's (and the third parties that do support them with exclusives) than you aren't a "real gamer".
I'd not normally say such things but considering what people say of Nintendo I'll give them their own poison.
Thank God[footnote]For Jim[/footnote]. I'd rather not be a "real gamer" anyway.

I'm not sure how "pissed off" they'll be, considering "they've" already dismissed Nintendo as "kiddie."

The problem here is the assumption that this is somehow a two-way street. Nintendo needs the self-described "real gamers" more than they need Nintendo. And people can say "their loss" all they want, but barring the Wii, Nintendo's sales have declined with every generation. That core base appears to be getting smaller, and that's a problem if they can't get the third party folks on board.

I stand by what I said before, that Nintendo can endure as-is, but at some point, sacrifices will have to be made. This gen, next, the one after that. Barring Nintendo caving on things like the PC or mobile market....Yeah.
 

Hairless Mammoth

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Aiddon said:
One thing you must remember: it takes time for an empire to fall, and many of them split and/or become strong but smaller nations. Sony may not have been as successful as Nintendo, but they used to be very well off. Now only the Playstation division is going strong, with the rest of the company trying to figure about what to do. MS used to be the PC king with Intel its Queen(enjoy that image), but they lost it to new things like Apple's icrap, Android tablets and ARM CPUs. MS could have adapted to the market shifting towards more mobile devices like smart phones and tablets, instead they blundered about for several years while aware of the problem and are still playing catch up while trying and failing to keep the PC side healthy.

One reason why Nintendo doesn't announce layoffs every chance they get is they aren't the greedy jackoffs that run Activision. Iwata and others have taken salary cuts in place of other cost cutting measures. But, but, how long are their investors going to hang on to those promises that profits will go back up? I keep on hearing about this big stockpile of cash Ninty has (which I will believe they have), but they seem to be dead set on not using it, unless their consoles suddenly stop selling altogether. Why are they not making games from almost every IP they have, instead of slapping Mario on at least 3 games a year?

What's going to happen when they make the Wii U's successor? Even better, the 3DS's successor? As I said before, the market is changing. The 3DS is doing good, but the next one or the one after that might face some real competition in a future market filled with people who already got a cell phone and don't care to buy another thing when the simple to complex games they want are right at their fingertips. The might even hand down their old phones to the kids to play instead of buying what an unnecessary expense in their eyes.

Smash Bros. will probably sell enough to make a generous income, then their designated hitter is out for 6 years. When that happens they're either going to have to start releasing some other worthwhile games(aka do thing the made a console, for sell tons of games) to make money and keep their install base from going back to the other systems.

Nintendo is either being stubborn or they got tons of projects they haven't talked about, more so than even their usual secretive self. Their coffers are big enough that they can last a while but, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be proactive. Their execs sure aren't using that expertise to tell the general public what the Wii U is, that it exists, and what games can be bought for it.
 

V4Viewtiful

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Mr.Mattress said:
Nintendo didn't need Third Parties to sell the Wii, they did that all by themselves. They can do it again, although I don't know if they can do it with the WiiU. But No Hardware Company really needs Third Parties to survive, unless they don't have enough IP's to sustain themselves. Luckily, Nintendo has a lot of those, and will (hopefully) make more.
I hope you're right, but I'll admit not competing directly with the other consoles makes them appear behind the curve in certain aspects but those aspects aren't consumer friendly to beginwith (Origin, Uplay etc.).
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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V4Viewtiful said:
Mr.Mattress said:
Nintendo didn't need Third Parties to sell the Wii, they did that all by themselves. They can do it again, although I don't know if they can do it with the WiiU. But No Hardware Company really needs Third Parties to survive, unless they don't have enough IP's to sustain themselves. Luckily, Nintendo has a lot of those, and will (hopefully) make more.
I hope you're right, but I'll admit not competing directly with the other consoles makes them appear behind the curve in certain aspects but those aspects aren't consumer friendly to beginwith (Origin, Uplay etc.).
More like they're pacing themselves; MS still hasn't made one cent off its gaming division while Sony doesn't seem to have any signs of ever recovering from the blackhole that the PS3 created. And then when you account for all the studios shuttering at rapid-fire speed, all the layoffs 3rd parties keep having, as well as people just getting burnt out in the gaming industry it seems if anything the HD bump probably came too soon and thus Nintendo supposedly being "behind the curve" revealed that they were really just noticing how reckless and expensive that graphical update was going to be. Thus while eevryone else left last gen in the red, Nintendo was sitting on a pile of money Scrooge McDuck would be envious of.
 

Vykrel

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VG_Addict said:
Vykrel said:
Mr.Mattress said:
Nintendo didn't need Third Parties to sell the Wii, they did that all by themselves.
the Wii sold so well because it was something completely different and new, and it appealed to people who arent even into gaming. it was both a game console and a toy that could be enjoyed by pretty much everyone. however, the gimmick of motion controls has worn off by now. Sony and Microsoft abandoned the idea pretty quickly, and Nintendo has as well.

Nintendo needs to ensure that their next console can compete with the others in terms of power and online experience, and they also need some more mature exclusives and new IPs. unfortunately, i dont see any of that happening, and i wouldnt be surprised if they ended up going the way of Sega and stop developing home consoles altogether.

as it stands, Nintendo is relying solely on nostalgia. the only thing that made me buy a Wii was Mario Kart and SSBB, with the hopes that there would be other exclusives that interested me, but there never were any. i learned me lesson and wont be buying a Wii U, even though i really want to play Mario Kart 8. basically, there is little reason to buy a Wii U unless you are a fan of every series they have been offering for decades. you need to be a fan of Super Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Star Fox, and Super Smash Bros. because that is basically all they have to offer.

they really do need third party support, and they wont get it until their consoles are closer to being equal to Playstation and Xbox.
Nintendo isn't making new IPs? Did you even watch their E3? They're making Splatoon and Code Name STEAM.

Mature exclusives? You mean like Xenoblade, Bayonetta 2, Devil's Third, and Fatal Frame V?
and im sure those few games will be their saving grace. seriously, though, i cant see any of the games you mentioned selling very well. believe me, i was aware of their existence, except for whatever Code Name STEAM is, but my point is that they are not enough. Sony has like four times as many exclusive new IPs for the Playstation, and even Microsoft is not relying as heavily on established series' as much anymore.
 

VG_Addict

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Nintendo can't win. People ***** at them for not making a new IP.

They make a new IP in Splatoon.

Then IGN whines that Splatoon isn't a mascot platformer.

They also make new IPs on Eshop like Dillon's Rolling Western, Pushmo, and Rusty's Real Deal Baseball, but those don't count for some arbitrary reason.

Also, Nintendo isn't getting the EA Sports games. Why don't they make their own sports games, like they did in the NES days? Remember Ice Hockey and Pro Wrestling?
 

V4Viewtiful

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VG_Addict said:
Nintendo can't win. People ***** at them for not making a new IP.

They make a new IP in Splatoon.

Then IGN whines that Splatoon isn't a mascot platformer.

They also make new IPs on Eshop like Dillon's Rolling Western, Pushmo, and Rusty's Real Deal Baseball, but those don't count for some arbitrary reason.

Also, Nintendo isn't getting the EA Sports games. Why don't they make their own sports games, like they did in the NES days? Remember Ice Hockey and Pro Wrestling?
Hell they made Punch Out, probably the best boxing game ever made. Could you imagine an MMA game by Nintendo? That would be nuts!
 

AJ_Lethal

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V4Viewtiful said:
VG_Addict said:
Nintendo can't win. People ***** at them for not making a new IP.

They make a new IP in Splatoon.

Then IGN whines that Splatoon isn't a mascot platformer.

They also make new IPs on Eshop like Dillon's Rolling Western, Pushmo, and Rusty's Real Deal Baseball, but those don't count for some arbitrary reason.

Also, Nintendo isn't getting the EA Sports games. Why don't they make their own sports games, like they did in the NES days? Remember Ice Hockey and Pro Wrestling?
Hell they made Punch Out, probably the best boxing game ever made. Could you imagine an MMA game by Nintendo? That would be nuts!
Make it cel-shaded with an anime aesthetic. and call it "Caged Rage" or sth

aaaaawwwww yeeeeaaaaaah
 
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Aiddon said:
it seems if anything the HD bump probably came too soon and thus Nintendo supposedly being "behind the curve" revealed that they were really just noticing how reckless and expensive that graphical update was going to be.
*looks at cd projekt red*


...right. reckless and expensive. definitely why they've done that the last two generations now. good to know that by having more powerful hardware instantly equals better graffiks and that's it.


OT: Nintendo survives just fine without 3rd party support, they've got their own games that highly appeal to a specific chunk of the gaming audience and fortunately for them they buy the whole shebang to get those games. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" so to speak.

that being said, I'm not part of that pie, pretty much as far away as possible in every sense, which is a bummer, but they haven't tried very hard at all to get my business so keep on making your fanbase happy, they're the ones lining your pockets.
 

Casual Shinji

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VG_Addict said:
Nintendo can't win.
You're right about that.

Nintendo can't maneuver without either giving up its charming identity by competing for equal third party support and becoming just another big console that has CoD, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Dragon Age, Mass Effect etc, or staying what it is right now and watching the sales remain meager because people don't want to buy a 300 dollar console just for Mario and Zelda.

They're trapped in this hole that they dug for themselves. Unless there's a sudden surge of love for everything Nintendo by the entire gaming community, but I really don't see that happening any time soon.
 

'Record Stops.'

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I see the Glorious NDF is still going strong and once again I'm pleased to see the debate going strong.

That being said, I own a Wii U for Nintendo Games, I'll get a PS4 for PS4 games. That hasn't changed and it won't change, the 3DS continues to dominate Handhelds, Iphone games are on a steep decline as that market to begin with was a load that would disappear as rapidly as consumer interest waned, and the Vita is...ahahaha... Well it's certainly trying to keep up. I kid, I've gotten a few decent games for it. Ports, but still pretty good ports.

I own a PC that I use for PC games, I own a Handheld for my handheld games, I have an IPad for whatever I find that is worth using it for(thus far only TWEWY and that's it), so I'm set.

Now if anyone needs me, I'll be playing dot//GU and smacking my gob at how meta the dot//hack series was on a whole.
 

jpoon

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xaszatm said:
jpoon said:
Grow up nintendo, I think it's well past time.
I will never understand opinions like this. Not that you need to like Nintendo's aesthetic. It's perfectly fine that you don't, but the very idea that Nintendo needs to "grow up" baffles my mind. First off, what does "growing up" even mean? More tits, blood, and gore? Well, Bayonetta 2, Devil's Third, No More Heroes, Mad World, Red Steel, Senran Kagura, Shin Megami Tensei IV, and loads of more games all have that. Why does Nintendo need to change its franchises as well?

No, seriously, explain to me what "growing up" means in this context.
Alright if that chaps your ass then let me rephrase the sentence.

"Stop acting like you only make games for 12 year olds nintendo, most of your fans are not children any more."
 

Savagezion

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jpoon said:
Alright if that chaps your ass then let me rephrase the sentence.

"Stop acting like you only make games for 12 year olds nintendo, most of your fans are not children any more."
That is a bit of a low blow, as 12 year olds are still in the world today. PS3 and 360 sure didn't cater to them unless you count buying a $300 system AND a $150 peripheral device (Move/Kinect). PS3/360 kids games are shit compared to what Nintendo offers. Little Big Planet and... hmmm. It's probably the reason Minecraft may as well be crack for kids. Kids don't actually have much to pick from nowadays. A PS3/360 household doesn't offer much. Constant complaints of 12 year olds on COD and GTA 5 come to mind.

Excluding children so you can get what you want could be argued that is an immature outlook. I do agree that I would like to see Nintendo embrace M rated games a little more (which they are showing signs of) but I do think it is positive that they continue to focus on giving kids good games to play. I would like to see PS4 and Xbone pay more attention to the kids as well. However, they are more concerned with drawing in people with jobs and paychecks. Not a bad move, but I wouldn't call it ideal.