Nintendo's 3DS Specs Too Low for Epic's Unreal Engine

Greg Tito

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Nintendo's 3DS Specs Too Low for Epic's Unreal Engine



Mark Rein from Epic says that the technical capabilities of Nintendo's 3DS handheld cannot handle the Unreal Engine.

Epic Games is trying to break into the handheld market but it is largely ignoring Nintendo's buzz-worthy device. Mark Rein, VP at Epic, said in an interview that he hasn't seen a 3DS yet but, based on the information that he's read, the company's Unreal engine wouldn't be able to run on Nintendo's 3DS.

"It's below our [minimum specifications], from what we can tell. We don't have a 3DS, so there's no way for us to verify that," Rein said. "Everything we've been led to believe is that it's below our min-spec. You couldn't do a game that looks like [Epic Citadel] on it, for example."

more than a million downloads [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103181-Update-Incredible-Looking-RPG-Coming-to-iPhone-et-al-from-Epic] in just under two weeks.

It seems that Epic is betting on Apple for its handheld strategy and that's partly because Nintendo hasn't approached Epic to try to get its software to run on the 3DS. "We really don't know enough about it to make a formal comment, but I think if they considered that our engine would be good on it, they would have probably talked to us about it," Rein said.

Of course, this could all change if and when Epic gets its hand on a demo 3DS device, but the fact that Ninetendo didn't reach out to them seems to point to no games using Unreal on the new handheld.

Source: Joystiq [http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/06/rein-3ds-likely-below-minimum-specifications-for-unreal-engine/]

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ChromeAlchemist

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That's a shame. I'm sure they could modify it, but they wouldn't bother unless it was going to give them enough return on it. I don't think it's a huge loss to be frank, but let's see what happens.

I guess they'll save it for the PSP2 then.
 

Lost In The Void

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That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
 

thenumberthirteen

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Does that mean an iPhone is more powerful than a 3DS? Has the 3DS' final specs been revealed yet?

That tech demo only worked on the 3GS and iPhone 4 so I didn't get a chance to play it, but I hear it's amazing.
 

Buizel91

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ChromeAlchemist said:
That's a shame. I'm sure they could modify it, but they wouldn't bother unless it was going to give them enough return on it. I don't think it's a huge loss to be frank, but let's see what happens.

I guess they'll save it for the PSP2 then.
Unreal Engine Light? hehe

And this is a shame, many games use the Unreal Engine...

Wonder how they will work around it.
 

Dioxide20

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Lost In The Void said:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?
 

mjc0961

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Maybe we couldn't do a game that looks like Epic Citadel on the 3DS, but I bet you can do games that are a lot more fun to play. Mark Rein, please take this opportunity to point your nearest web browser to "www.yaybuttons.com". Thank you.

Also, at least he admits that he could be wrong since he doesn't actually have a 3DS in his hands yet.
 

Mr. Fister

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Bullcrap. Epic got the damn thing to run on the Iphone 3G, and we know the 3DS has more horsepower than that. Mark Rein is notorious for his anti-Nintendo comments, so I wouldn't put too much weight on his words.
 

Danzaivar

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The only way I could imagine the iDevices being higher spec is if you assume the 3DS can ONLY do 3D. I read somewhere that working in 3D mode effectively halves the power of the machine; if that's true then surely theirs a way to disable it for high-spec games?

Otherwise it's just baffling that a GAMES CONSOLE coming out in 5 months time can't match a PHONE that's been out for aaaaages.
 

mjc0961

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Mr. Fister said:
Bullcrap. Epic got the damn thing to run on the Iphone 3G, and we know the 3DS has more horsepower than that. Mark Rein is notorious for his anti-Nintendo comments, so I wouldn't put too much weight on his words.
Oh. In that case, instead of going to your nearest web browser, please locate the nearest fire and jump in, Mark. Thank you.
 

ChromeAlchemist

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thenumberthirteen said:
Does that mean an iPhone is more powerful than a 3DS? Has the 3DS' final specs been revealed yet?

That tech demo only worked on the 3GS and iPhone 4 so I didn't get a chance to play it, but I hear it's amazing.
Well the iPhone has to run an OS in the background, so it was bound to be powerful. We've seen some powerful looking stuff from the 3DS though so we'll have to wait and see.
The_root_of_all_evil said:
You want Unreal? YOU CAN'T HANDLE UNREAL!

Seriously, the Unreal Engine is the mutts nuts.
It gets whored out on every other title on the market so I guess it is.

Heh, mutts nuts...

 

-|-

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who plays things like fps's on a hand held anyway? ffs - handhelds is for puzzlers, 2d platformers, strategy games and RPG's. Things like proffessor layton... jeez.

Personally, I cgaff if apple come out with an iphone that has better graphics than a PS3, it's control system will suck ass.
 

Kuchinawa212

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Oh no, my handheld gaming system isn't godly enough? What ever shall I do /monotone voice

Just make the games fun, that's all that matters to me =D
 

Delusibeta

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I also call bullshit. Frankly, the 3DS should be more than capable of topping an iPhone, it's just that Epic don't give a damn.
 

aaaaaDisregard

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Dioxide20 said:
Lost In The Void said:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?
You seem so in love with a term "next-gen" without actually understanding what it means. Next generation doesn't really have to be more powerful than competitors - it just has to be more powerful than previous iteration (like Nintendo DS).
The thing is DS's hardware was horribly outdated to begin with, and now 3DS contains something not much faster than PSP. It's probably on par with iPhone 3GS, but with no programmable shading support and 4 times less RAM. This means less memory for textures and geometry and also simple lighting (in comparison with what can be achieved on iPhone 3GS).

Of course, a gaming console like 3DS has an advantage of fixed hardware (not like iPhone/iPod with a crapload of generations and different specs) and very little overhead due to simple OS and thin APIs, so it'll have games like nothing on the iPhone 3GS in terms of visuals. And of course these games will be much more advanced, "big" and proper due to big budgets (and higher price of "real" games, unlike iPhone's cheap apps) and other factors.
But still, hardware is weak in comparison with iPhone 4, and nothing can be done about it - there's simply no point in porting Unreal Engine 3 to 3DS, because there won't be direct game ports from home consoles there (I damned hope so).
 

V8 Ninja

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I'll wait two years after launch. Someone will eventually get the Unreal Engine to run on it, whether that be Epic themselves or some middle-of-nowhere mod team.
 

Delusibeta

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aaaaaDisregard said:
You seem so in love with a term "next-gen" without actually understanding what it means. Next generation doesn't really have to be more powerful than competitors - it just has to be more powerful than previous iteration (like Nintendo DS).
The thing is DS's hardware was horribly outdated to begin with, and now 3DS contains something not much faster than PSP. It's probably on par with iPhone 3GS, but with no programmable shading support and 4 times less RAM. This means less memory for textures and geometry and also simple lighting (in comparison with what can be achieved on iPhone 3GS).

Of course, a gaming console like 3DS has an advantage of fixed hardware (not like iPhone/iPod with a crapload of generations and different specs) and very little overhead due to simple OS and thin APIs, so it'll have games like nothing on the iPhone 3GS in terms of visuals. And of course these games will be much more advanced, "big" and proper due to big budgets (and higher price of "real" games, unlike iPhone's cheap apps) and other factors.
But still, hardware is weak in comparison with iPhone 4, and nothing can be done about it - there's simply no point in porting Unreal Engine 3 to 3DS, because there won't be direct game ports from home consoles there (I damned hope so).
Source please, otherwise I'm going to assume that you're talking out of your arse.
 

Greg Tito

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What...? I don't get it.

So you're telling me that the Iphone is a more powerful gaming system than the 3DS?

Wtf?
 

aaaaaDisregard

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Delusibeta said:
Source please, otherwise I'm going to assume that you're talking out of your arse.
"3DS is powered by twin ARM11 CPUs clocked at a relatively meagre 266MHz, while overall system storage (sans SD card) is 1.5GB. Onboard RAM is 64MB, with 4MB of video memory. DMP's PICA-200 graphics chip is said to be running at a relatively lightweight 133MHz."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-3ds-techspec-exploration-blog-entry

and behold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Models
800MHz Cortex CPU for iPhone 4/1GHz for iPad
512MB RAM for iPhone 4/256MB for 3DS
PowerVR SGX535 as video chip.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2782/3
which supports OpenGL ES 2.0 with fully programmable shading
http://www.imgtec.com/demo_room/
http://www.imgtec.com/factsheets/SDK/PowerVR%20Technology%20Overview.1.0.2e.External.pdf

So in terms of pure hardware power iPhone wins. But as I've said earlier, most games for 3DS will be visually better than iPhone ones due to better art, low overhead and better optimization - all thanks to higher budgets and 3DS's gaming focus - let alone gameplay-wize better.
 

Cryo84R

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SteelStallion said:
What...? I don't get it.

So you're telling me that the Iphone is a more powerful gaming system than the 3DS?

Wtf?
Yes, it is. iPhone 4 and the new iPod touch have quite a lot going on under the hood. Even six-axis control.

Delusibeta said:
I also call bullshit. Frankly, the 3DS should be more than capable of topping an iPhone, it's just that Epic don't give a damn.
Have you even used an iPhone 4/iPod touch? Do try to get your hands on one (even if it's just trying out Epic Citadel).

Danzaivar said:
Otherwise it's just baffling that a GAMES CONSOLE coming out in 5 months time can't match a PHONE that's been out for aaaaages.
3GS came out in 2009, the iPhone 4 came out in June 2010 and the 4th gen iPod touch came out last month.
 

jamesworkshop

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SteelStallion said:
What...? I don't get it.

So you're telling me that the Iphone is a more powerful gaming system than the 3DS?

Wtf?
Iphone 4

Apple A4 is based on the ARM processor architecture. The first version released runs at 1 GHz and contains a Cortex-A8 CPU core paired with a PowerVR SGX 535 graphics processor (GPU)built on Samsung's 45 nm process.

The Cortex-A8 core used in the A4 is thought to use performance enhancements developed by chip designer Intrinsity (which was subsequently acquired by Apple)[10] in collaboration with Samsung.[11] The resulting core, dubbed "Hummingbird", is able to run at far higher clock rates than other implementations while remaining fully compatible with the Cortex-A8 design provided by ARM. Other performance improvements include additional L2 cache. The same Cortex-A8 CPU core used in the A4 is also used in Samsung's S5PC110A01 SoC.

The A4 processor package does not contain RAM, but supports PoP installation. The top package of the A4 used in the iPad & iPod touch 4th gen contains two low-power 128 MB DDR SDRAM chips for a total of 256MB RAM. For the iPhone 4 there are two chips of 256 MB for a total of 512 MB. RAM is connected to the processor using ARM's 64-bit-wide AMBA 3 AXI bus. This is twice the width of the RAM data bus used in previous ARM 11 and ARM 9 based Apple devices, to support the greater need for graphics bandwidth in the iPad.

PowerVR SGX 535

PowerVR's SGX series is used in many popular devices, including the Apple A4 (which powers the iPhone 4, iPad, iPod touch, and Apple TV) and Samsung's Hummingbird (in Galaxy S and Galaxy Tab devices) and Motorola's Droid phone. It features pixel, vertex, and geometry shader hardware, supporting OpenGL 2.0 and DirectX 10.1 Shader Model 4.1.

Intel uses the SGX 535 as its GMA 500 & GMA 600 integrated graphics chips.



The iphone 4 is a serious piece of tech
 

Jacob.pederson

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We'll see what they say after Carmack hacks up a version of Rage running at 60fps in 3D on the night after he gets the dev kit :)

Ok . . . so maybe 5am the night after.
 

AverageBob

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The funny thing is the specs.

CPU:
The iphone has had a CPU that's a 300-400Mhz(iPhone), 400Mhz(3G), 600Mhz(3Gs), or 1Ghz(iPhone 4) ARM CPU. The GPU handles OpenGL ES 1.1 (iPhone, 3G) or OpenGL ES 2.0 (3Gs, iPhone 4).

The DS lists a dual CPU, both ARM (So similar architecture) at 67 and 33 Mhz. The DSi, however, is 133Mhz/33Mhz. The 3DS specs I couldn't find on CPU, but since rumors of the GPU mention 400Mhz, I assume that the CPU would be similar.

The Wii, Gamecube, PSP, and Playstations use different architectures, so speeds aren't comparable.

RAM:
The iPhone ram, not flash disk space, has been 128MB (iPhone, 3G), 256MB (3Gs), and 512MB(iPhone 4). The OS takes a good chunk for mulitasking, but an application can be guaranteed to have at least 15-30MB of RAM all on its own, even on the first iPhone.

The DS ram has been 4MB for the DS, and 16MB for the DSi. Perhaps the 3DS has up to 32 or 64MB of RAM?

The Gamecube and Wii have 86 and 91MB RAM; Main, buffer and texture ram combined.

The PSPs, since 2007, have 64MB RAM

The PS2 and PS3 have 36 and 512MB RAM; Main, buffer, and texture ram combined.

It's worth noting that Epic Castle on the iPad (which has 256MB RAM like the 3Gs) barely fits (IE, it forces Safari and Mail to make room in RAM) so it may be that RAM alone excludes the 3DS. Perhaps even the Wii won't be able to handle it.

The game binary itself, in terms of application ipa is 82.3MB as of version 1.02. Uncompressed, it's about 134MB.

If you want real heresy, consider that Carmack said that the iPhone kills the prev gen consoles, and is not far from latest gen consoles (PS3, XBox360), with no comparison to handhelds at all. ( http://kotaku.com/5611523/id-unleashes-rage-on-the-iphone )
 

Megacherv

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Surely they can use the Unreal 2 engine, probably version 2.5. That's good enough for me
 

lightsier

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I don't believe anything from Mark Rein, he's back tracked from his statements too many times in the past.
 

Timbydude

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What? Surely the 3DS is more powerful than the iPhone.

The 3DS is more powerful than the Wii, which is more powerful than the iPhone. My powers of deduction tell me that Epic is either lying or lazy.
 

Cryo84R

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Timbydude said:
What? Surely the 3DS is more powerful than the iPhone.

The 3DS is more powerful than the Wii, which is more powerful than the iPhone. My powers of deduction tell me that Epic is either lying or lazy.
May want to actually look at the iPhone 4 specs.
 

jamesworkshop

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Timbydude said:
What? Surely the 3DS is more powerful than the iPhone.

The 3DS is more powerful than the Wii, which is more powerful than the iPhone. My powers of deduction tell me that Epic is either lying or lazy.



Guess again
 

Greg Tito

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Timbydude said:
What? Surely the 3DS is more powerful than the iPhone.

The 3DS is more powerful than the Wii, which is more powerful than the iPhone. My powers of deduction tell me that Epic is either lying or lazy.
Nope, while the 3DS games will be better than those found on iPhones, 3DS's hardware is your typical underpowered crap.
 

Rad Party God

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Bah, so much for an engine... I really don't care if it doesn't work on the 3DS or if an iPhone is better than the 3DS. In the end, nobody will give it a shit. It's good for comparisons and the e-peen factor, but really, IF Epic could get the UE3 working on the 3DS, would he even bother to release an Unreal Tournament on the 3DS? (that would be awesome...)
 

Xanthious

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Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Maybe five or six years from now Nintendo will put out something on par with the 2 year old devices of today. Sure it will be terribly behind the times yet again but Im sure you will be able to control it using a hamster or your tongue or maybe it will have the first ever "smell-o-vision". I miss the Nintendo of the early 90s that didn't hide behind gimmicks to get their systems over and focused on quality gaming.
 

TLatshaw

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Oh, no. Nintendo's handheld system is underpowered compared to other pieces of machinery! It's going to be just as bad as all their previous systems!

...Oh, wait. That was never bad at all.
 

Nevyrmoore

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Xanthious said:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.
Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.
 

Greg Tito

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Xanthious said:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Maybe five or six years from now Nintendo will put out something on par with the 2 year old devices of today. Sure it will be terribly behind the times yet again but Im sure you will be able to control it using a hamster or your tongue or maybe it will have the first ever "smell-o-vision". I miss the Nintendo of the early 90s that didn't hide behind gimmicks to get their systems over and focused on quality gaming.
Just because one company has said the 3DS won't be running their engine, doesn't mean that all of a sudden it's underpowered. Whether or not Epic choose to release anything on the DS, there's already a slew of absolutely stunning looking games coming out for the 3DS. At E3, people were talking about the graphics more than they were talking about the 3D.

Hell, the fact that they're re-releasing Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, arguably the most graphically impressive game of the previous console generation, on a fucking handheld, is enough proof that the 3DS isn't punching under its weight.

And let's not forget that for all the tech comparisons between the two, both the iPhone and the 3DS have screens about 4 inches wide. Meaning that differences in graphics are going to be absolutely negligible, if even discernable. Don't believe me? Go and watch two youtube videos, one of a game running on a 360, one of the same game running on a PS3. And make sure the video is in tiny window mode. Then lecture me about the difference in graphics between the two systems. Graphical tweaks and nudges mean fuck-all when everything is getting relayed through a screen the size of a bourbon biscuit.

Lastly while you may see the DS's touchscreen as a gimmick, I and plenty of others see it as the only inroad made so far in making FPS games playable on a handheld. God only knows it works better than the PSP's control layout. And as for the 3D, the fact that it's both glasses free and optional, makes it both a technical wonder, and also impossible for you guys to ***** about. Don't like it? Then switch the slider to 'OFF'...
 

sneakypenguin

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
snip
And let's not forget that for all the tech comparisons between the two, both the iPhone and the 3DS have screens about 4 inches wide. Meaning that differences in graphics are going to be absolutely negligible, if even discernable. Don't believe me? Go and watch two youtube videos, one of a game running on a 360, one of the same game running on a PS3. And make sure the video is in tiny window mode. Then lecture me about the difference in graphics between the two systems. Graphical tweaks and nudges mean fuck-all when everything is getting relayed through a screen the size of a bourbon biscuit.
screen resolution and tech is much better on phones though IIRC, things like samsungs superamoled displays, iphone retina display or even an evos stomp on 3ds. EX iphones 960-by-640 vs 3ds800×240 pixels (400×240 pixels per eye) While the 3ds isn't gonna look bad per say, its still not going to be as sharp, or vivid like a modern phone(especially since you have to split the image on the 3ds if its like other 3d tech i've seen giving you only 400x240 vs 960x640).
 

Xanthious

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Nevyrmoore said:
Xanthious said:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.
Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.
Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time and the Wii and DS wouldn't be nearly as successful w/o their gimmicks that appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator. Hell Nintendo is so caught up on gimmicks it's repackaged the DS how many times now adding a new gimmick each time (camera, obscenely large screen, etc)?

The DS is successful against the PSP more because Sony can't help but screw the pooch with the PSP over and over and less to do with it being anything that could be mistaken for a superior system. The Wii is successful because the audience it caters to. Let's be honest, your average Wii owner is either in grade school or drives a mini van and gets confused by a controller with more than three buttons.

As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.
 

wammnebu

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thats too bad, a handheld that can competently play retro-shooters would be amazing.

Epic could always put UT2004 on 3DS
 

YeahNo

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Uhhh, from what I heard, the iPhone 4 is ~$700 with no contract...and the 3DS is ~$250. If they sold the 3DS for that price, I'm pretty sure the hardware would be miles higher.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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What?!! A Nintendo console has inferior graphics to technology that's already been released?!! When has THAT ever happened before?
 

Cryo84R

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YeahNo said:
Uhhh, from what I heard, the iPhone 4 is ~$700 with no contract...and the 3DS is ~$250. If they sold the 3DS for that price, I'm pretty sure the hardware would be miles higher.
An iPod touch (same hardware as an iPhone 4) is $230.
 

Zer_

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aaaaaDisregard said:
Dioxide20 said:
Lost In The Void said:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?
You seem so in love with a term "next-gen" without actually understanding what it means. Next generation doesn't really have to be more powerful than competitors - it just has to be more powerful than previous iteration (like Nintendo DS).
The thing is DS's hardware was horribly outdated to begin with, and now 3DS contains something not much faster than PSP. It's probably on par with iPhone 3GS, but with no programmable shading support and 4 times less RAM. This means less memory for textures and geometry and also simple lighting (in comparison with what can be achieved on iPhone 3GS).

Of course, a gaming console like 3DS has an advantage of fixed hardware (not like iPhone/iPod with a crapload of generations and different specs) and very little overhead due to simple OS and thin APIs, so it'll have games like nothing on the iPhone 3GS in terms of visuals. And of course these games will be much more advanced, "big" and proper due to big budgets (and higher price of "real" games, unlike iPhone's cheap apps) and other factors.
But still, hardware is weak in comparison with iPhone 4, and nothing can be done about it - there's simply no point in porting Unreal Engine 3 to 3DS, because there won't be direct game ports from home consoles there (I damned hope so).
Wrong, the 3DS features fully programmable shader architecture. Second, the 3DS' dual core CPU may not have a very high clock speed, but you can bet your ass that the CPU is a lot more advanced than what you will find in a PSP.
 

YeahNo

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I think the 3D technology isn't well-developed enough, thus the higher price, but I'm pretty much sold over the 3DS. It has Augmented Reality, and some pretty interesting games could be developed. Maybe it's because of all the new features, Nintendo can't develop a powerful handheld. Of all the games I've played on my iPhone, no matter how great the graphics, they aren't as fun as the games I've played on my DS Lite.
 

Something Amyss

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Lost In The Void said:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
I don't see why. They can't outpreform a glorified Blu Ray player. *rimshot*
 

Electrogecko

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Xanthious said:
Nevyrmoore said:
Xanthious said:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.
Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.
Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time and the Wii and DS wouldn't be nearly as successful w/o their gimmicks that appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator. Hell Nintendo is so caught up on gimmicks it's repackaged the DS how many times now adding a new gimmick each time (camera, obscenely large screen, etc)?

The DS is successful against the PSP more because Sony can't help but screw the pooch with the PSP over and over and less to do with it being anything that could be mistaken for a superior system. The Wii is successful because the audience it caters to. Let's be honest, your average Wii owner is either in grade school or drives a mini van and gets confused by a controller with more than three buttons.

As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.
If touch control is a gimmick than buttons sure as hell are a gimmick. If 3d is a gimmick than HD is too. Nintendo makes games that are fun- not porno's for tech junkies.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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JUMBO PALACE said:
What?!! A Nintendo console has inferior graphics to technology that's already been released?!! When has THAT ever happened before?
Thank You.

Seriously people need to realize that smartphones are actually getting good from portable gaming. The 3DS is essentially an unmarketable device that runs on the hopes that 3D gaming will take off immensely.

I'm not getting hyped up about Nintendo products anymore. Last time I did that I bought a Wii and 4 games for it. Then sold it 8 months later. I'm not going to let myself get set up for disappointment again.

I don't know why the iPhone 4 being more powerful than the 3DS is so surprising to people. These are probably the same people who STILL can't believe it's not butter...
 

BlackWidower

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The Unreal Engine? The over a decade old Unreal Engine can't run on the 3DS? Why do I find that hard to swallow?

If you're talking Unreal 2 or 3 Engine then I believe you, but the original Unreal Engine? It makes no sense.
 

Xanthious

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Electrogecko said:
If touch control is a gimmick than buttons sure as hell are a gimmick. If 3d is a gimmick than HD is too. Nintendo makes games that are fun- not porno's for tech junkies.
Saying Nintendo makes "fun" games to dismiss how dreadfully behind the times their systems are is akin to saying that a fat and ugly girl has "a great personality". Even if it is true it does nothing to negate the fact that she is still fat and ugly the same as it does nothing to change that Nintendo hasn't released a console or handheld system that hasn't relied on a cheap to get over and mask that they are at least five to ten years out of date since the GBA in 2001.

Yep, it's been since 2001 that Nintendo has released anything that could stand on it's own merits and not need some clever yet pointless twist to it to make people look away from it's obvious shortcomings. Prior to that, the SNES was their last successful console.

I guess the moral of it all is that there is simply no point in making games for actual gamers when there is so much more money in making games for grade school children and soccer moms.

BlackWidower said:
The Unreal Engine? The over a decade old Unreal Engine can't run on the 3DS? Why do I find that hard to swallow?

If you're talking Unreal 2 or 3 Engine then I believe you, but the original Unreal Engine? It makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. This is Nintendo we are talking about. This is the same company that didn't bother to using optical discs until the after the freaking new millenium. Who needs to worry about silly things like technical capabilities when they can just as easily make the portable gaming version of a "Magic Eye" book. Heck that cheap optical illusion has to give them a pass on being at least a 5 or more years out of date on everything else after all.
 

PurplePlatypus

Duel shield wielder
Jul 8, 2010
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Xanthious said:
Saying Nintendo makes "fun" games to dismiss how dreadfully behind the times their systems are is akin to saying that a fat and ugly girl has "a great personality". Even if it is true it does nothing to negate the fact that she is still fat and ugly the same as it does nothing to change that Nintendo hasn't released a console or handheld system that hasn't relied on a cheap to get over and mask that they are at least five to ten years out of date since the GBA in 2001.
Don't use people in your analogies, it just makes you come off as quite shallow to be honest and it didn't help your point. Mostly because it?s a false analogy, low graphics doesn?t mean an ugly game. It?s about the visual style after that. Some managed it on the DS, others ended up looking pretty disgraceful.

Besides at a certain point high graphics will be wasted on such a small device, you need a bigger screen to get the finer details. I?m not saying it couldn?t have done a little better in the graphics department though. It?s just hasn?t been Nintendo?s goal for a while, and to be honest It?s probably a good thing they haven?t gone in that direction, particularly with their hand held. There?s already a lot of competition in that area and they wish to stand out.
 

ricewarrior01

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Xanthious said:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Maybe five or six years from now Nintendo will put out something on par with the 2 year old devices of today. Sure it will be terribly behind the times yet again but Im sure you will be able to control it using a hamster or your tongue or maybe it will have the first ever "smell-o-vision". I miss the Nintendo of the early 90s that didn't hide behind gimmicks to get their systems over and focused on quality gaming.
What?

You're pointing out the gimmicks and lack of state of the art hardware then you finish by complaining about quality gaming...

Are you the type who believes greater graphics is what makes a game? Or have you just been exclusively nit-picking at shovel ware games because it's convenient for your system bashing?
 

WaderiAAA

Derp Master
Aug 11, 2009
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So they made it for the iPhone instead? Come on, nintendo, just mail them a freaking 3DS!
 

Delusibeta

Reachin' out...
Mar 7, 2010
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Xanthious said:
Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time
Stopped reading. The first two PlayStations were the weakest in their respective generations in terms of grunt. If you're gonna complain about power of consoles, then get yer facts right.
 

Jesus Phish

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People who think that Unreal are talking bs because
-the engine is old
-the handheld is "next gen"
-an iphone can run the engine

need to read the comments from everyone who has linked you sources of what an iphone is actually made up of. The newest itteration of the iphone is more powerful than the desktop computer I used to have no more than about 10 years ago (I admit it wasn't a good computer).

Smart phones are absolute powerhouses in terms of their hardware, because they're being used for a multitude of applications. The 3DS is more powerful than current handhelds, but thats still not enough.

Nintendos hardware has never ever been that high on the spec sheets and they still manage to do ok.

Thanks to everyone that linked the difference in specs and gave a little tech savvy talk on them to save me doing it.
 

Callate

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I think it's actually harder than most people are willing to admit to compare the performance of what I understand to be a single processor running at a higher frequency (the iPhone) vs. two processors working in tandem at a lower one (the 3DS.) Even if they were exactly identical architecture, which they're not.

That said, and recognizing that again Intel's Pentium line is not the same as the chips that Nintendo is using on the 3DS, I think it's worth noting that the original "Unreal Tournament"'s recommended specs called for a 266 MHz Pentium II and 64 MB of RAM. And that was to run the game at significantly higher resolutions than the 3DS would be called upon to deliver.

I don't know about Rein's alleged "anti-Nintendo comments". But it does suggest to me that while it's possible that the 3DS would find it difficult to crank out the version of the Unreal Engine that Epic (or some factions therein) would like to show off, it may well simply be that Epic's brass simply isn't interested in making the attempt. That the 3DS isn't capable of delivering any version of the Unreal engine at all doesn't sound right.
 

MovieBob

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Well, that tears it then - the 3DS can't count on graphics to be it's selling-point. What will Nintendo possibly sell it on, now - exclusivity for Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Smash Bros. and StarFox games? How can a system live on just THAT!!?? ;)

In all seriousness, while it's theoretically interesting to see Epic wanting to push the handheld envelope - but what's the logic in completely writing-off what's almost-certainly going to be the handheld that actually matters? Let's be frank about this - smartphones aren't universal or stable enough to be serious gaming platforms at this juncture, and if the PSP2 really is just a more muscular PSP with a phone built in it's probably going to mirror it's predecessor in not being worth much outside of a handful of titles that only Japan really cares about.

So what's Epic's "angle" here, exactly? Are they gambling that they're going to make the game that "makes" smartphone-gaming or the PSP2? Because if they don't have a plan, they're basically taking the equivalent position of a musician who decides to only record his music at a frequency that human beings haven't evolved to hear yet.
 

aaaaaDisregard

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Zer_ said:
Wrong, the 3DS features fully programmable shader architecture. Second, the 3DS' dual core CPU may not have a very high clock speed, but you can bet your ass that the CPU is a lot more advanced than what you will find in a PSP.
I can bet your ass it is not. PSP got MIPS architetecture CPU with variable 1-333MHz clock speed, 16/16KB cashes, integrated vector FPU with 2.6GFlops performance plus the second DSP core (video/audio acceleration, effect processing), all coupled with 128-bit memory bus at 2.6 Gbit/s. Look for precious details on http://ps2dev.org/. Overall, it's quite fast and directed specifically for gaming console. And by the way, pixel fillrate of integrated graphics chip is 664MPix/s with 33MPolys/s geometry performance.

For 3DS's supposed CPU go see
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Feature_Comparison:_ARM_926,_1136_and_Cortex-A8
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/index.php

It is clearly not "a lot more advanced". Faster, but not by incredible amount. 3DS graphics is much better than PSP one (not in terms of raw performance, but rather capability-wise. Plus more eDRAM), but CPU isn't. And iPhone's Cortex wipes the floor clean with both.
 

headless Monkey Boy

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I don't get it...
Its just an engine right, i mean its what you do with it that uses resources. i mean sure a game modeling the Finnish coast on a 1-1 scale renderd at 32000 x 2170 using dx 12, with real time ray tracing, particle physics and ant-aliasing x 1000 is going to be a little bit of a resourse hog. Even though the engine may be capable of it, it doesn't mean it has to be implented.

If the engine cant run on a 200Mhz system without even Modling anything in any dimensons or res should i be worried about what it is capable of?

I'm pretty confident that the engine can run on the 3ds, though maybe not with the same features as the i phone. Its seems strange to just dismiss it.
 

Jesus Phish

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Can people also start remembering, the Unreal Engine isnt used just to make FPS games. Yes thats probably it's primary application, but it can run other genres succesfully.
 

s0m3th1ng

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Whatever happened the the N64 kicking the Playstation's ASS on the technology front hmm?
 

tk1989

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the iphone 4 is actually pretty powerful, and has a ridiculously high resolution. Still, i call bullshit, just sounds like epic is pissed off! LOL!
 

jamesworkshop

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MovieBob said:
Well, that tears it then - the 3DS can't count on graphics to be it's selling-point. What will Nintendo possibly sell it on, now - exclusivity for Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Smash Bros. and StarFox games? How can a system live on just THAT!!?? ;)

In all seriousness, while it's theoretically interesting to see Epic wanting to push the handheld envelope - but what's the logic in completely writing-off what's almost-certainly going to be the handheld that actually matters? Let's be frank about this - smartphones aren't universal or stable enough to be serious gaming platforms at this juncture, and if the PSP2 really is just a more muscular PSP with a phone built in it's probably going to mirror it's predecessor in not being worth much outside of a handful of titles that only Japan really cares about.

So what's Epic's "angle" here, exactly? Are they gambling that they're going to make the game that "makes" smartphone-gaming or the PSP2? Because if they don't have a plan, they're basically taking the equivalent position of a musician who decides to only record his music at a frequency that human beings haven't evolved to hear yet.
Dude you forgot KID FU***** ICARUS


"It's below our [minimum specifications], from what we can tell. We don't have a 3DS, so there's no way for us to verify that," Rein said. "Everything we've been led to believe is that it's below our min-spec. You couldn't do a game that looks like [Epic Citadel] on it, for example."

"We really don't know enough about it to make a formal comment, but I think if they considered that our engine would be good on it, they would have probably talked to us about it,"

Thats not a write off, they didn't even say they wouldn't target the platform in some fashion, fact is unless Nintendo gives you the all clear you can't develop for the system anyway, Hell even SCEE (Sony Computer Entertainment Europe) up in london has a functioning 3DS Devkit.

Somehow I think Nintendo just isn't interested in Epic's business
 

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
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Dioxide20 said:
Lost In The Void said:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?
Dedicated, next-generation gaming platform?

We're talking about the 3DS, right?
 

gl1koz3

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UT3 can't even run properly on my old P4 3.2GHz on the lowest settings. I know it's an old machine, but... what the... lowest settings?! lagging all over the place?! Same with all recent UE games. Whatever they're doing, they're doing it wrong.
 

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
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Xanthious said:
As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.
Newsflash: Those phones are also battery hogs. The only prominent smartphone on the market with a battery life equivalent to what the 3DS is trying to manage is the Nokia E72, which has no 3D graphics processing capability and a small 320x240 screen.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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So is Nintendo always gonna be graphically one step backwards while being technologically one step forward?

wtf. y cant they just be better all around? Grr Nintendo!

and Quit jumping the gun EPIC :p
 

AceDiamond

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First: why does this matter. So a platform with no tactile feedback in terms of its controls can run the unreal engine. Big fucking whoop. They had to code the engine to run on it didn't they?

Second: Without a DS demo kit in their hands, how the fuck does Epic even know it won't run? Answer, they don't.

Conclusion: Epic, put up or shut up. Also Mark Rein needs to not run his mouth so much...hell everybody at Epic could do with a little bit of self-control in regards to spouting off just about whatever they feel like.

Side Note: Are we seriously going to have the "hurf durf iPhone bettar than 3DS cuz tech specs" argument in this thread as well? Are we? I honestly think at this point it's a bit unfair to look at spec sheets and declare one is clearly superior to the other when

A) The iPhone is not a dedicated gaming console and thus needs to have more theoretical power in regards to things like its OS, media capabilities, etc.
B) the 3DS isn't out yet
and
C) Nobody here has even touched a 3DS so how can they make that kind of judgement.
 

Jared

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Jul 14, 2009
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Well, nopw we have a full grasp as to what it can, and cannot handle - which, is apparantly not alot if it cannot handle the Unreal Engine

I think the iPhone could, couldnt it?
 

Rect Pola

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Oh well. While a game being pretty isn't a bad thing, I'm not loosing sleep over it. Besides, I've heard the 3DS's exact capabilities are a little weird depending on using both screens and 3D and what not.
 

dochmbi

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That doesn't surprise me, since the Nintendo 3DS has as much VRAM as a graphics card from 1994.
 

Scrythe

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Jun 23, 2009
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I'm a bit lost here...

Exactly which Unreal Engine are we talking about?

Or do these guys take the "Never Look Back" approach to making games?
 

felixader

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It is funny how after three sides of thread in wich numeros Commenters spoke and wrote about the power of Iphone compared to the 3DS still ask: "Doh!? Isn't the 3DS better than a phone? Duh!?"

That clearly shows that some are to lazy to read and just senselessly throw some words into a empty field cause it's obviously there to be filled. X-P
 

AzrealMaximillion

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felixader said:
It is funny how after three sides of thread in wich numeros Commenters spoke and wrote about the power of Iphone compared to the 3DS still ask: "Doh!? Isn't the 3DS better than a phone? Duh!?"

That clearly shows that some are to lazy to read and just senselessly throw some words into a empty field cause it's obviously there to be filled. X-P
And they still can't believe it's not butter either.
 

zombie711

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Judgement101 said:
Lost In The Void said:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
Yes, but the DS is a glorified iPod Touch.
but the ds came out way befor the ipod touch. did nintendo get a DeLorean to bring back an ipod touch only to disrupt the space time continueum and create the greatness that is the ds.
 

Delusibeta

Reachin' out...
Mar 7, 2010
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Jaredin said:
Well, nopw we have a full grasp as to what it can, and cannot handle - which, is apparantly not alot if it cannot handle the Unreal Engine

I think the iPhone could, couldnt it?
The 3DS could probably handle iD Tech 5, if iD made a port of it.
 

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
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I am honestly astounded at the replies people are posting here. The current iteration of the Unreal Engine was made to be used by PCs, PS3s and 360s (ie, heavy duty machines with tons of processing power), and has powered games such as Arkham Asylum and Gears Of War which, even if you can't stand the art direction (which I can't), is one of the most technically impressive games out there. In short, it's the kind of engine designed to make lesser processors cry out in pain. By some kind of miracle, Epic managed to programme a version of it for iPod ( in all likelihood, with severe cutbacks and compromises in order to make it work on such a small system), and now people are bitching that the 3DS is graphically behind the times?

Jesus, when did we all start expecting handhelds to outperform consoles and PCs?!? The 3DS is less than the size of a paperback novella! It has a screen as big as a couple of boxes of matches! And yet they've got MGS3 playing on it, and it looks fucking amazing. And it's going to be in glasses-free 3D!

Honestly, sometimes I despair at the ingratitude which seems to pervade gamedom. Less than ten years ago, hand held games were still looking like this. People were happy then, and should be damn fucking happy now. If you'd told me 7 or 8 years ago that I'd be able to one day play Resident Evil or Ocarina of Time on a Gameboy, I'd have laughed in your face. Now I can't wait to get a 3DS, get Chaos Theory, and get some amazing portable kick-ass going (on a console with a battery life of more than 20 minutes to boot).
 

WyattEpp

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aaaaaDisregard said:
I can bet your ass it is not. PSP got MIPS architetecture CPU with variable 1-333MHz clock speed, 16/16KB cashes, integrated vector FPU with 2.6GFlops performance plus the second DSP core (video/audio acceleration, effect processing), all coupled with 128-bit memory bus at 2.6 Gbit/s. Look for precious details on http://ps2dev.org/. Overall, it's quite fast and directed specifically for gaming console. And by the way, pixel fillrate of integrated graphics chip is 664MPix/s with 33MPolys/s geometry performance.

For 3DS's supposed CPU go see
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Feature_Comparison:_ARM_926,_1136_and_Cortex-A8
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/index.php

It is clearly not "a lot more advanced". Faster, but not by incredible amount. 3DS graphics is much better than PSP one (not in terms of raw performance, but rather capability-wise. Plus more eDRAM), but CPU isn't. And iPhone's Cortex wipes the floor clean with both.
While it's good you know how to look at and compare postive integers with similar units, you fall into a fairly common trap of assuming that the numbers are equivalent.

First off, remember that while the R4000 CPU in the PSP can hit 333MHz, it's intentionally clocked at 222 because of power and heat.

Second, you would do well to remember that comparing raw numbers like CPU clock and GPU poly rendering becomes highly misleading even between devices in the same generation. I can't be the only one who remembers how Pentium 4s stacked up against Athlons with much lower core clocks. In this particular case, the R4000 design is from the early 90s (these things were in SGI's Indy for crying out loud). While the R4000 does feature a superscalar design, barrel-shifter, and single-clock execution (for everything that isn't division or SqRt); it unfortunately doesn't include many of the common innovations found in the intervening decade. New approaches to instruction parallelism, OOE, improvements to pipelining, multiple ISA revisions.... as you can see, it's hardly a simple apples to apples comparison. And the 3DS has two of these.

Further, The Pica200 is much more powerful than their old marketing pdf would indicate. The updated specs place it at around 400Mps fill and 40Mt at 100MHz.[1] At 200MHz (nominally what Nintendo is packing), it might even best the PS2 (which was difficult to program, but really was a poly-pushing monster. Raw performance only exceeded by the Gamecube, as I recall) and certainly towers over the PSP.

You are, however, correct that the Cortex-A8 is a brilliant piece of kit.

jamesworkshop said:
Somehow I think Nintendo just isn't interested in Epic's business
Does Epic make games? Rarely. Does Epic make games worth playing? Not since 1999. That might have something to do with it. :/

dochmbi said:
That doesn't surprise me, since the Nintendo 3DS has as much VRAM as a graphics card from 1994.
Note the screen scale. Much smaller framebuffer, lower texture resolution, likely a compressed colour space to save bits (555 like the DS?). Also, it manages to do everything much much faster than the Mach-series VGA cards.... ;)


[1] http://people.csail.mit.edu/kapu/EG_08/Mobile3D_EG08.pdf
 

Dioxide20

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Cassita said:
Dioxide20 said:
Lost In The Void said:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player
Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?
Dedicated, next-generation gaming platform?

We're talking about the 3DS, right?
I'm not saying that it was going to be amazing, just more focused on gaming rather then everything the iPod does.
 

aaaaaDisregard

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WyattEpp said:
While it's good you know how to look at and compare postive integers with similar units, you fall into a fairly common trap of assuming that the numbers are equivalent.

First off, remember that while the R4000 CPU in the PSP can hit 333MHz, it's intentionally clocked at 222 because of power and heat.

Second, you would do well to remember that comparing raw numbers like CPU clock and GPU poly rendering becomes highly misleading even between devices in the same generation. I can't be the only one who remembers how Pentium 4s stacked up against Athlons with much lower core clocks. In this particular case, the R4000 design is from the early 90s (these things were in SGI's Indy for crying out loud). While the R4000 does feature a superscalar design, barrel-shifter, and single-clock execution (for everything that isn't division or SqRt); it unfortunately doesn't include many of the common innovations found in the intervening decade. New approaches to instruction parallelism, OOE, improvements to pipelining, multiple ISA revisions.... as you can see, it's hardly a simple apples to apples comparison. And the 3DS has two of these.

Further, The Pica200 is much more powerful than their old marketing pdf would indicate. The updated specs place it at around 400Mps fill and 40Mt at 100MHz.[1] At 200MHz (nominally what Nintendo is packing), it might even best the PS2 (which was difficult to program, but really was a poly-pushing monster. Raw performance only exceeded by the Gamecube, as I recall) and certainly towers over the PSP.
"it unfortunately doesn't include many of the common innovations found in the intervening decade... OOE"
Oh my god, you've mentioned out of order execution*facepalm*.
Since when exactly does ARMv6 support this magnificent feature? As far as I know even X360's and PS3's PowerPC processors don't possess its power. And so you know, ARMv6 is a scalar architecture without those pretty NEON instructions. Meanwhile PSP has vector FPU in addition to regular FPU.

While comparing "postive integers with similar units" can be deceptive, it certainly gives rough estimate of power and functionality.
While you have good enough memory to remember AMD's K7 architecture and its edge over Netburst, you are too fast to forget about Athlon XP's 3 FPU pipelines and shorter execution pipeline.

You also forget that this funny MIPS R4000 was quite advanced for the beginning of 90s - I'd say it was much more advanced than Intel 80486, which is about the same level of complexity with ARMv6 CPUs like the one supposedly installed in Nintendo 3DS.

And the last one - you're clearly far from being very knowledgeable about PSP hardware - otherwise you'd know that its CPU can reach 333MHz with updated firmware which was released alongside God Of War - Chains Of Olympus.

As for GPU - I didn't imply it was advanced - 3DS's one is much better, especially in terms of capabilities, but it still isn't magnitudes better. Not very impressive, considering that PSP will celebrate its 6th anniversary soon.
 

Electrogecko

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Xanthious said:
Electrogecko said:
If touch control is a gimmick than buttons sure as hell are a gimmick. If 3d is a gimmick than HD is too. Nintendo makes games that are fun- not porno's for tech junkies.
Saying Nintendo makes "fun" games to dismiss how dreadfully behind the times their systems are is akin to saying that a fat and ugly girl has "a great personality". Even if it is true it does nothing to negate the fact that she is still fat and ugly the same as it does nothing to change that Nintendo hasn't released a console or handheld system that hasn't relied on a cheap to get over and mask that they are at least five to ten years out of date since the GBA in 2001.

Yep, it's been since 2001 that Nintendo has released anything that could stand on it's own merits and not need some clever yet pointless twist to it to make people look away from it's obvious shortcomings. Prior to that, the SNES was their last successful console.

I guess the moral of it all is that there is simply no point in making games for actual gamers when there is so much more money in making games for grade school children and soccer moms.

BlackWidower said:
The Unreal Engine? The over a decade old Unreal Engine can't run on the 3DS? Why do I find that hard to swallow?

If you're talking Unreal 2 or 3 Engine then I believe you, but the original Unreal Engine? It makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. This is Nintendo we are talking about. This is the same company that didn't bother to using optical discs until the after the freaking new millenium. Who needs to worry about silly things like technical capabilities when they can just as easily make the portable gaming version of a "Magic Eye" book. Heck that cheap optical illusion has to give them a pass on being at least a 5 or more years out of date on everything else after all.
Congrats. You just re-iterated the exact same post as last time. Let me lay it out for you in a language you can understand. THE SPECS OF A CONSOLE MEAN NOTHING. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE SOFTWARE...YOU KNOW?....THE GAMES!!!...It's incredible how people like you ignore the fact that almost every single Nintendo game ever made is better than anything I've seen on 360 minus Portal. They actually make games that are CREATIVE and (god-forbid) have COLOR. They don't feel the need to impress those like you who are too shallow to look past a game's graphics and see what actually makes it unique and FUN. And once again, saying that touchscreen control is "cheap and pointless" is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And anybody who denies that motion control is better for certain software (RPG's, RTS', point and click, internet browser...basically anything that has menu screens) is also either incredibly stupid/uneducated. And 3d...3d will add to the medium about 10x more than HD ever did. You'd honestly rather your screen look like a photo instead of a window into your gaming world (probably all sports sims and shooters) through which you can see for miles into the distance? (look up sterioscopic vision and educate yourself...lol u think it's akin to a "Magic Eye" book...lmao you're ignorant on the subject your complaining about...the ultimate form of immaturity)
Everything you've said so far indicates that you're shallow, conservative, self-conscious and insecure, or completely ignorant. Stop living in the past.
 

Electrogecko

New member
Apr 15, 2010
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Xanthious said:
Wall of Text, I choose you. Paragraphs are a good thing fella. However I must say TLDR sadly. However all the caps make me wonder, why so angry bro?
This is the first time I've ever modified a quote in any way, so I hope it turns out right. Most of the time when I use caps it's to italicize or emphasize a word, but that long one in the beginning was due to slight irritation for apparently having failed to get my point across...I don't ever want to appear to be yelling or angry in my text. Also, what does TLDR mean?
 

The Mighty Thesaurus

Lumen timeo
Feb 23, 2010
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-|- said:
who plays things like fps's on a hand held anyway? ffs - handhelds is for puzzlers, 2d platformers, strategy games and RPG's. Things like proffessor layton... jeez.

Personally, I cgaff if apple come out with an iphone that has better graphics than a PS3, it's control system will suck ass.
Not all games using the Unreal engine are first person shooters.
 

Erana

New member
Feb 28, 2008
8,010
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With the Wii out there, are people really so suprised?
And while I absolutely adore my iTouch, it does have a "Meh" library. There are some great games on here if you look hard enough. But its Media first, hard-core games... somewhere down the priority list.
Of course, now that I've admitted that I am happy with my Apple product, the internet is going to proceed to insult me for it like it does when I say I game on a Macbook.
Because the fact that this is the way I like my computer situation, and I've used PCs for years- more than long enough to form an opinion with -people like to go, "NO, you're WRONG. MY way of doing things are better. It doesn't matter that you're happy with what you have, you really AREN'T. These are the reasons why: *insert rationale here*. Why don't you go do things MY way, huh?"
And then whenever I make a comment about how I don't like being irked by anti-Apple people, someone then quotes me and goes, "But they're right." I then giggle when they get moderated for a smartass, low-content post. (Yes, I am tired of hearing that, why do you ask?)

Still, they're not right. Whether its the 3DS or a Macbook, Its not about Goddamned technical specs, its about enjoying your machine.

Except for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum. I feel bad about not being able to enjoy that thing. :(
 

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
12,070
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aaaaaDisregard said:
You also forget that this funny MIPS R4000 was quite advanced for the beginning of 90s - I'd say it was much more advanced than Intel 80486, which is about the same level of complexity with ARMv6 CPUs like the one supposedly installed in Nintendo 3DS.
And yet, the ARM architecture is mainly sold on a platform of being notably power-efficient, something which you don't expect from a MIPS processor originally designed for graphical workstations. When you struggle to get half the battery life from a PSP that you do from a DS of any variety (including, according to Nintendo's bumf, the 3DS), suddenly the relative technical achievements of the processors start to look slightly irrelevant.
 

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
12,070
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Erana said:
With the Wii out there, are people really so suprised?
I'm certainly not. Leave it to Nintendo to announce their "Next big breakthrough" in gaming is too weak to run a 12 year old gaming engine. Sorry guys, this is par for the course for Ninty. It took them 10 years to adopt standard size disc technology in a console when Sony had been doing it all along. The Wii has only 1.5x the processing power of it's predecessor and can not render images higher than 480p. Nintendo has always felt that the biggest way to leap forward is to go backwards. No one should be surprised that the 3DS is underpowered. Especially considering the DS hardware was barely above SNES specifications.

But it's ok. Nintendo could put a dead baby in a box and people would be queuing up around the corner at 1am in a snowstorm to get it first. So don't think this thing won't sell out in an hour and a half.
 

DonnieDio

New member
Oct 8, 2010
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Sir John the Net Knight said:
I'm certainly not. Leave it to Nintendo to announce their "Next big breakthrough" in gaming is too weak to run a 12 year old gaming engine. Sorry guys, this is par for the course for Ninty. It took them 10 years to adopt standard size disc technology in a console when Sony had been doing it all along. The Wii has only 1.5x the processing power of it's predecessor and can not render images higher than 480p. Nintendo has always felt that the biggest way to leap forward is to go backwards. No one should be surprised that the 3DS is underpowered. Especially considering the DS hardware was barely above SNES specifications.
Unreal Engine 3 a 12 year old gaming engine? DS barely above SNES specifications? Are you actually being serious?, you have to be joking surely?
 

James Raynor

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Sep 3, 2008
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People don't seem to take into consideration that a good portion of the RAM and such will be taken up by the system's OS. Whereas the 3DS has a very meager OS system that takes up very little space.


Also, remember that the 3DS is made by a company that actually produces games and publishes games made third party. The iphone does not, most of it's games are little better the glorified flash games.
 

chinomareno

New member
Sep 4, 2010
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I'm more concerned about the screen resolution, I wouldn't expect smart phone standard but it's looking pretty woeful. Probably the reason why it seems underpowered but i don't see much better detail being achieved on a standard ds screen.
 

DonnieDio

New member
Oct 8, 2010
5
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chinomareno said:
I'm more concerned about the screen resolution, I wouldn't expect smart phone standard but it's looking pretty woeful. Probably the reason why it seems underpowered but i don't see much better detail being achieved on a standard ds screen.
It isn't a standard DS screen. The 3D top screen is twice the resolution of a DS screen and that's after it deals with stereoscopy (its almost 4 times the resolution natively). Even the resolution of the lower screen is 50% higher then a standard DS display.

The reason people think its underpowered is because they really don't know anything about 3D technology, its certainly not down to the way launch games are looking. RE and MGS are two of the best, if not the best looking, handheld games I've ever seen.
 

Ultima Shadow

New member
Apr 8, 2009
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Rein's been saying the same thing about Nintendo consoles for years. The fact that people are taking what he's saying about them seriously is laughable. The guy's basically just a massive troll.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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Xanthious said:
Nevyrmoore said:
Xanthious said:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.
Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.
Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time and the Wii and DS wouldn't be nearly as successful w/o their gimmicks that appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator. Hell Nintendo is so caught up on gimmicks it's repackaged the DS how many times now adding a new gimmick each time (camera, obscenely large screen, etc)?

The DS is successful against the PSP more because Sony can't help but screw the pooch with the PSP over and over and less to do with it being anything that could be mistaken for a superior system. The Wii is successful because the audience it caters to. Let's be honest, your average Wii owner is either in grade school or drives a mini van and gets confused by a controller with more than three buttons.

As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.
Oh please. The N64 was crippled by the cartridge vs CD issue, (and thus a lack of storage for detailed textures, sounds and so on.).

That aside it had better hardware than the Playstation, it's only competitor.
It was quite capable of graphical effects a playstation couldn't cope with, but of course, when you have 600 mb to store textures and such vs 8 to 32 mb, it's obvious that there's going to be problems with detail.

The N64 is mass-produced silicon graphics hardware. It wasn't underpowered, it just had an unfortunate design compromise in sticking with cartridges as a storage medium.
(Great for loading times, but awful for most everything else)