No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?

[Chemical Alia]

I don't think there's anything wrong with learning fairy tales, it's not like reading them alone is what gives little girls a princess complex or anything. Forcing anything about sexuality and adult relationships on a kid at that age seems worthless to me.

I do think that gendered language is pointless and unnecessary, however, and don't really have a problem with what they're doing there. It's not like they won't learn the pronouns until they're 10 and be mentally scarred as a result. Chinese is relatively gender-neutral compared to most European languages, and it's not causing any psychological harm to the people who speak it.

 

[Rex Fallout]

You really think the story of Cinderalla is SO IMPORTANT, if they dont tell it, theyre brainwashing? Its really not that an important story. Letting children decide what toys to play with and how they want to play is the very OPPOSITE of brainwashing. Pretty much anything thats different then how youre use to things being is considered brainwashing, no doubt. Things don't have to be exactly the same, you only think that because thats the way you were raised.

Or "brainwashed", as you put it.

And your communication skills are your own fault, not anyone elses.

1st off I never said that they were brainwashing because they don't teach with cinderella, They refuse to let the story even be there which is brainwashing in my opinion. And I don't consider different ways of raising children 'brainwashing' I just think the choice should be there, the fact that they refuse to offer it is what worries me. And go ahead and think I was brainwashed. *shruggs*

And They may be my fault but I didn't ask you to quote me did I? You could have just ignored me.

 

[Blindswordmaster]

You're not a fucking victim, stop acting like it. "Our society places more advantages for boys than girls, so let's obliterate gender roles." FFFFFFFUU- no, must maintain civility. This isn't the way to go about this. It's like seeking to end racism by obliterating the idea of race. Retarded right? Want to fix society? Make men and women equals, not say there aren't men and women. Gender roles originated from physical differences between males and females. There ARE physical differences between sexes, any 6 year old can tell you that.

 

[SilentCom]

Sounds like they're taking the whole equality thing too far. Democracy is about equal vote. One person one vote, not about forcing little kids to be gender neutral. I'm not sure how this will turn out and am very skeptical. If it turns out alright then I suppose we'll be seeing change. If not, then they messed up those children's lives.

 

[Flauros]

You really think the story of Cinderalla is SO IMPORTANT, if they dont tell it, theyre brainwashing? Its really not that an important story. Letting children decide what toys to play with and how they want to play is the very OPPOSITE of brainwashing. Pretty much anything thats different then how youre use to things being is considered brainwashing, no doubt. Things don't have to be exactly the same, you only think that because thats the way you were raised.

Or "brainwashed", as you put it.

And your communication skills are your own fault, not anyone elses.

1st off I never said that they were brainwashing because they don't teach with cinderella, They refuse to let the story even be there which is brainwashing in my opinion. And I don't consider different ways of raising children 'brainwashing' I just think the choice should be there, the fact that they refuse to offer it is what worries me. And go ahead and think I was brainwashed. *shruggs*

And They may be my fault but I didn't ask you to quote me did I? You could have just ignored me.

Wow, you really dont make any sense at all. Your first two sentences contradict eachother straight off. Theres THOUSANDS of fairytales people dont read in preschool. Those "sacrifice yourself for the glory of your leader" stories certainly have fallen out of favor, havent they?
You think children should of choices. Which is exactly what this school is doing. But you hate the school....for agreeing with you? YOURE the one who said you were brainwashed.

sigh....

 

[joemegson94]

Radical Feminists - they're fucking mental.

 

[cobra_ky]

You're not a fucking victim, stop acting like it. "Our society places more advantages for boys than girls, so let's obliterate gender roles." FFFFFFFUU- no, must maintain civility. This isn't the way to go about this. It's like seeking to end racism by obliterating the idea of race. Retarded right? Want to fix society? Make men and women equals, not say there aren't men and women. Gender roles originated from physical differences between males and females. There ARE physical differences between sexes, any 6 year old can tell you that.

like i've said before and i'll say again:

"Egalia doesn't deny the biological differences between boys and girls ? the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct."

it's almost like some people don't read the article before they respond to it.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Wow, you really dont make any sense at all. Your first two sentences contradict eachother straight off. Theres THOUSANDS of fairytales people dont read in preschool. Those "sacrifice yourself for the glory of your leader" stories certainly have fallen out of favor, havent they?
You think children should of choices. Which is exactly what this school is doing. But you hate the school....for agreeing with you? YOURE the one who said you were brainwashed.

sigh....

... no they don't contradict each other. Lets look at this:
There is a difference between 'teaching' and 'having the materials there'. In elementary school we read all kind of books in class. Books that were meant to 'TEACH' us. But in my free time I went to our library and read books on Dinosaurs- books that we didn't HAVE to read, but it was my CHOICE to do so. Do you see what I am saying here? CHOICE. They take that away to force gender neutrality on these children.

When I read this article the first thing it reminded me of was in the book Brave New World by... I think Aldous Huxley, (correct me if I'm wrong on that) where in the future there is a complete gender neutral society, where humans are genetically engineered, there are Alpha's Beta's Gamma's and Delta's. The Delta's and Gamma's are kind of the suckers, they are used for mostly heavy labor and work and things, While the Alpha's and Beta's are more of the higher class. Sex is no longer a function meant for any sort of reproduction, the higher higher ups use it as a means to control the society. Sex is merely for pleasure, but needing DNA for future genetically engineered people, they must all remain fertile. So Women are taught an extensive routine of daily taking birth control drugs. ... Eh sorry seem to have wondered off from my point. This gender neutral school brings to mind a part at the beginning of the book where children are raised not by parents, but by doctors who raise them in groups and are taught to be completely gender neutral. I won't go into detail about what happens in case you haven't read the book, but long story short its a pretty hellish world where 'love' no longer exists, Shakespeare is gone and forgotten, all of the great art of the past has disappeared... I'm not necessarily saying that this is what will happen if everyone does this 'gender neutral' thing that this school is doing, I'm just saying I like the art and things we have now, and think that part of the system isn't as broken as others. Just teach equality and leave the rest of the crap alone. Because the act of taking away these books of fairy tales... is EXACTLY what happened in Brave New World.

 

[Flauros]

Wow, you really dont make any sense at all. Your first two sentences contradict eachother straight off. Theres THOUSANDS of fairytales people dont read in preschool. Those "sacrifice yourself for the glory of your leader" stories certainly have fallen out of favor, havent they?
You think children should of choices. Which is exactly what this school is doing. But you hate the school....for agreeing with you? YOURE the one who said you were brainwashed.

sigh....

... no they don't contradict each other. Lets look at this:
There is a difference between 'teaching' and 'having the materials there'. In elementary school we read all kind of books in class. Books that were meant to 'TEACH' us. But in my free time I went to our library and read books on Dinosaurs- books that we didn't HAVE to read, but it was my CHOICE to do so. Do you see what I am saying here? CHOICE. They take that away to force gender neutrality on these children.

.

Wheres your anger that the other fairytales arent there? Im pretty sure they dont have an entire library of congress in a preschool. Especially since the toddlers DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ.
For years, they havent had the orignal fairytales in preschools. Wheres the ending of Cinderall, where the sisters are tortured by putting burning hot metal on their feet and forcing them to dance to death? Or, if i remember right, birds pecking out the mothers eyes as she watched? I dont see your anger at schools at leaving the actual parts of Cinderalla out. I mean, since cinderella is the most important thing you can teach a child.EVER. Our lives are entirelly based around it.
Its not enough that they watch the Disney movie, read it at home, and hear about it for the rest of their lives. They need to be read it EVERY DAY. I mean, since women are such crap theyll never be able to do anything, what else can they hope for besides a magic pumpkin and a prince getting a boner for her?

My favorites are Little Red Riding hood and Baba Yaga VS Natasha. Never been angry they havent read Natasha. But they might read them Little Red Riding hood, but yes, make in gender neutral. Since noones mentioned that story being about the menstrual cycle for a long time now, lol

You do know that most 3 year olds dont know how to read, right? Im pretty sure finger painting next to a girl isnt going to destroy a little boys life.

 

[let's rock]

Hmm... started out legit, then they went overboadr, really far overboard

 

[Laser Priest]

Don't dare risk offending anyone. Instead, try to beat reality into submission.

Hey, folks! It isn't going to work!

 

[synobal]

pft just let the kids play doctor. I still use that line today.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

Lol, you don't see the sexism in Cinderella? It's about a passive woman stuck in an awful situation who does nothing to escape it on her own but rather waits for the right man to come save her, putting all her energy into preparing for him. Seriously, if you had a fairy Godmother and didn't want to be a fucking slave any more, would you either a) use her powers to help you gian land, cash, legal standing, etc. so that you can leave the position you are in, or would you b) make yourself pretty for a prince and hope he marries you? As for the version with the crows, well, Cinderella herself is practically the same person, so I think my point still stands.


I like what this preschool is doing. But adding a gender neutral pronoun doesn't mean that one needs to disallow the gender specific ones. Nothing wrong with being cisgender.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Wheres your anger that the other fairytales arent there? Im pretty sure they dont have an entire library of congress in a preschool. Especially since the toddlers DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ.
For years, they havent had the orignal fairytales in preschools. Wheres the ending of Cinderall, where the sisters are tortured by putting burning hot metal on their feet and forcing them to dance to death? Or, if i remember right, birds pecking out the mothers eyes as she watched? I dont see your anger at schools at leaving the actual parts of Cinderalla out. I mean, since cinderella is the most important thing you can teach a child.EVER. Our lives are entirelly based around it.
Its not enough that they watch the Disney movie, read it at home, and hear about it for the rest of their lives. They need to be read it EVERY DAY. I mean, since women are such crap theyll never be able to do anything, what else can they hope for besides a magic pumpkin and a prince getting a boner for her?

My favorites are Little Red Riding hood and Baba Yaga VS Natasha. Never been angry they havent read Natasha. But they might read them Little Red Riding hood, but yes, make in gender neutral. Since noones mentioned that story being about the menstrual cycle for a long time now, lol

You do know that most 3 year olds dont know how to read, right? Im pretty sure finger painting next to a girl isnt going to destroy a little boys life.

?? Where are you getting this anger from? I just said that I find it bad that the fairy tale stories arent even in the schools. I'm not saying that ITZ THE MOS IMPORTANT THANG IN THE SKOOLS. I'm saying I find it despicable that they arent even provided in the school. And I love how you ignored my whole thing over Brave New World. I assume that means you haven't read it? Well if it makes you better to pointlessly throw anger at me for no apparent reason go ahead and feel free to do so. Whatever floats your boat I suppose. Just don't expect me to answer unless you provide a basis for an intelligent conversation.

 

[TheMann]

Ahh the pussification of our society knows no borders. I hate it when people fail to realize that there are differences in gender, thinking that men and women are the same in every sense but biologically. In terms of legal rights, I'm ok with that idea, but socially the differences are on par with cats and dogs. Guys gravitate to different things than girls, and react differently to situations.

Case and point. One time I was particularly over-served at a friends house. I was sitting on one of those high chairs, the ones that you can put your feet up on, and my friend said I looked a bit pale. On cue I threw up, falling forward off the chair and smacking my head on the pool table in front of me before landing on my face. The boys laughed and the girls screamed.

Sorry about your head. Pool tables aren't very forgiving.

First off, It's comforting to know that I'm not the only person who uses the word "pussification". Secondly, I absolutely agree, differences in gender do go far beyond anatomy and genetic construct. Men and women tend to behave and respond to different situations differently from one another. This isn't just because of genetics; gender roles in one form or another have been around for literally tens of thousands of years. You can't just undo stuff that's essentially been hardwired into us since the origins of civilization. Also, is it just me, or does this seem like a huge suppression of individuality. Boys can't be boys, girls can't be girls, we all have to (ominously) be... "friends". *shudder*

But hey, maybe they're just not trying hard enough. Why stop at stories and linguistic syntax? How about making it so the girls aren't allowed to wear dresses and have to wear their hair up to decrease their feminine appearance, and the boys can't wear jeans or clothing with sports logos, soldiers or anything else remotely thought of as masculine. Everyone will then be issued plain unisex clothing and be carefully watched over until finally, blissful equality will be achieved. Wait a minute! I've seen this before. In a game! Hmm, where is it? Oh, yeah:

Spoiler: Just a giant daycare center when you think about it.

Welcome to the future, "friends".

 

[Flauros]

Wheres your anger that the other fairytales arent there? Im pretty sure they dont have an entire library of congress in a preschool. Especially since the toddlers DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ.
For years, they havent had the orignal fairytales in preschools. Wheres the ending of Cinderall, where the sisters are tortured by putting burning hot metal on their feet and forcing them to dance to death? Or, if i remember right, birds pecking out the mothers eyes as she watched? I dont see your anger at schools at leaving the actual parts of Cinderalla out. I mean, since cinderella is the most important thing you can teach a child.EVER. Our lives are entirelly based around it.
Its not enough that they watch the Disney movie, read it at home, and hear about it for the rest of their lives. They need to be read it EVERY DAY. I mean, since women are such crap theyll never be able to do anything, what else can they hope for besides a magic pumpkin and a prince getting a boner for her?

My favorites are Little Red Riding hood and Baba Yaga VS Natasha. Never been angry they havent read Natasha. But they might read them Little Red Riding hood, but yes, make in gender neutral. Since noones mentioned that story being about the menstrual cycle for a long time now, lol

You do know that most 3 year olds dont know how to read, right? Im pretty sure finger painting next to a girl isnt going to destroy a little boys life.

?? Where are you getting this anger from? I just said that I find it bad that the fairy tale stories arent even in the schools. I'm not saying that ITZ THE MOS IMPORTANT THANG IN THE SKOOLS. I'm saying I find it despicable that they arent even provided in the school. And I love how you ignored my whole thing over Brave New World. I assume that means you haven't read it? Well if it makes you better to pointlessly throw anger at me for no apparent reason go ahead and feel free to do so. Whatever floats your boat I suppose. Just don't expect me to answer unless you provide a basis for an intelligent conversation.

You havent responded to a single thing i said, lol. Yeah, ok troll, theyre brainwashing little kids by not having cinderella. Have fun.

 

[SeaCalMaster]

Wow, you really dont make any sense at all. Your first two sentences contradict eachother straight off. Theres THOUSANDS of fairytales people dont read in preschool. Those "sacrifice yourself for the glory of your leader" stories certainly have fallen out of favor, havent they?
You think children should of choices. Which is exactly what this school is doing. But you hate the school....for agreeing with you? YOURE the one who said you were brainwashed.

sigh....

... no they don't contradict each other. Lets look at this:
There is a difference between 'teaching' and 'having the materials there'. In elementary school we read all kind of books in class. Books that were meant to 'TEACH' us. But in my free time I went to our library and read books on Dinosaurs- books that we didn't HAVE to read, but it was my CHOICE to do so. Do you see what I am saying here? CHOICE. They take that away to force gender neutrality on these children.

When I read this article the first thing it reminded me of was in the book Brave New World by... I think Aldous Huxley, (correct me if I'm wrong on that) where in the future there is a complete gender neutral society, where humans are genetically engineered, there are Alpha's Beta's Gamma's and Delta's. The Delta's and Gamma's are kind of the suckers, they are used for mostly heavy labor and work and things, While the Alpha's and Beta's are more of the higher class. Sex is no longer a function meant for any sort of reproduction, the higher higher ups use it as a means to control the society. Sex is merely for pleasure, but needing DNA for future genetically engineered people, they must all remain fertile. So Women are taught an extensive routine of daily taking birth control drugs. ... Eh sorry seem to have wondered off from my point. This gender neutral school brings to mind a part at the beginning of the book where children are raised not by parents, but by doctors who raise them in groups and are taught to be completely gender neutral. I won't go into detail about what happens in case you haven't read the book, but long story short its a pretty hellish world where 'love' no longer exists, Shakespeare is gone and forgotten, all of the great art of the past has disappeared... I'm not necessarily saying that this is what will happen if everyone does this 'gender neutral' thing that this school is doing, I'm just saying I like the art and things we have now, and think that part of the system isn't as broken as others. Just teach equality and leave the rest of the crap alone. Because the act of taking away these books of fairy tales... is EXACTLY what happened in Brave New World.

Since when is the society in Brave New World gender-neutral? I think you need to re-read that one. In any case, jumping from the situation described here to the one in Brave New World is a bit hyperbolic, don'tcha think? It's not as if the parents have removed themselves from the children's lives, and comparing the removal of traditional fairy tales (which haven't necessarily been BANNED here, by the way, just not made readily available) to the suppression of all art is quite extreme.

BTW, not all people would describe Brave New World's settings as hellish. I would hate it, but I've heard a number of people tell me that they would want to live in that world.

 

[Rex Fallout]

You havent responded to a single thing i said, lol. Yeah, ok troll, theyre brainwashing little kids by not having cinderella. Have fun.

?? I have no Idea what is going on! You didn't answer anything I brought up about Brave New World! I just... I don't... I'm so F***king confused right now. If there was an appropriate moment for someone to feel like they just got mind f**ked, that moment would be right now. I'm sorry but somewhere along the line I stopped understanding what you were talking about. You just kept bringing up that apparently I think that they brain wash children because they dont have cinderella? Let me try to explain this one last time, I feel like they are brainwashing children because they dont have ANY of the traditional fairy tale stories available at the school. I apologize, perhaps, 'brain washing' isnt the correct way to put it, lets say, indoctrination? No that sounds just as bad... Conditioning? Yeah I think thats closer.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Since when is the society in Brave New World gender-neutral? I think you need to re-read that one. In any case, jumping from the situation described here to the one in Brave New World is a bit hyperbolic, don'tcha think? It's not as if the parents have removed themselves from the children's lives, and comparing the removal of traditional fairy tales (which haven't necessarily been BANNED here, by the way, just not made readily available) to the suppression of all art is quite extreme.

BTW, not all people would describe Brave New World's settings as hellish. I would hate it, but I've heard a number of people tell me that they would want to live in that world.

That is EXACTLY the impression I got from it. At least from the stand point of how the children were raised, (not counting the parents being taken out of the equation anyways) And do you not think that literature like that should be available? Will they cut out works of shakespeare because he wrote stories that sometimes had women in a lower role in society than men? Ban The Fountainhead because it has a moment of rape in it? It seems like a step down the wrong path in my opinion.

And I assume these people wish to live in a world of ignorant bliss right? I prefer to have control over my life personally. I get that freedom taken away, and the world is hellish, yes. A world where all of the old arts are destroyed because I'm viewed as too stupid to understand it? Yes I do not like that world.

 

[SeaCalMaster]

Since when is the society in Brave New World gender-neutral? I think you need to re-read that one. In any case, jumping from the situation described here to the one in Brave New World is a bit hyperbolic, don'tcha think? It's not as if the parents have removed themselves from the children's lives, and comparing the removal of traditional fairy tales (which haven't necessarily been BANNED here, by the way, just not made readily available) to the suppression of all art is quite extreme.

BTW, not all people would describe Brave New World's settings as hellish. I would hate it, but I've heard a number of people tell me that they would want to live in that world.

That is EXACTLY the impression I got from it.

Er, what impression? You're a bit vague here.

And do you not think that literature like that should be available? Will they cut out works of shakespeare because he wrote stories that sometimes had women in a lower role in society than men? Ban The Fountainhead because it has a moment of rape in it? It seems like a step down the wrong path in my opinion.

This is a particularly lazy straw man. I didn't say that I didn't think Cinderella et al. should not be available; I merely pointed out that not having it when resources are limited does not necessarily count as censorship. Would you think it reasonable if I went to a preschool, didn't find the story about the gay giraffes, and then called out the preschool for censorship and homophobic brainwashing? Egalia most likely argues that society at large will expose children to the standard fairy-tale paradigms enough that they don't need to use up money or shelf space to also teach it there. Again, suggesting that choosing alternative narratives over traditional ones will lead to Brave New World-style censorship is patently absurd, even as slippery-slope arguments go.