No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?

[Snowy Rainbow]

words

You may notice I've said several times I want people to choose for themselves what they are, not us label them. Not once have I said people shouldn't be allowed to identify themselves as a sex or gender. If someone feels in their mind they are male, I will call them male. If they feel female, I will call them female. Feel like a male but want to be a girl? I'll call you a girl. Feel like none of them fit? Okay. That's fine. I'll call you intersexed if you don't mind. Don't want that? I'll just go by your name until (if) you ever decide on a title you like. Feel like lots of things? Fine again.

I'm not against people being who they are, be it male, female, both or neither. I'm against telling people what they are and treating them like a sex or gender that we've decided for them, before they've even had to chance to choose for themselves.

People are just people. Be whatever you want. It doesn't matter to me; you'll still be you and I'll treat you the exact same as everyone else.

 

[Bassik]

Equality and tolerance should be achieved through education, not ignorance.

this. They're not teaching children to accept differences, they're refusing to teach that the differences exist!

Those kids will grow up pretty messed up, I suppose.

 

[Totenkopf]

People, please.
Exceptions prove the rule. They should generally reinforce conformity, not degenerate it.
This delusion of freedom and equality is simply foolish, and will lead to severe societal damage if realized.
Liberals are really drowning in their own laughableness.

I wonder which degree of violence it takes to smite that waste out of their minds...

 

[gbemery]

my question is that they promote gender neutrality by trying to make girls not play with dolls and do what they want. So they do things like tell a girl who is playing with a doll "wouldn't you rather play with this car or that soldier?" But what about the girl who actually wants to play with dolls? Sometimes all it seems they are doing is choosing for the child already that they will not like what is thought to be "girly" and choose for them that they will like "boy" things just so that the person saying it can say "see she likes boy things." But that is doing the exact same thing as gender roles just reversed. Instead of girls being "forced" into girl roles they are being "forced" into boy roles and boys to girls roles etc. So really its not the child's choice still. Its an over simplification but I see it a lot.

 

[vxicepickxv]

Are they going to replace them with schim and schlir as completely interchangeable, like in the Beat With A Billion Backs?

 

[jonyboy13]

New ways to fuck up the children, lovely.
What's next? There aren't any wars, there are disagreements?

 

[Biodeamon]

whenever somebody tries to censor something it just makes it worse.

And censoring a word like "him" or "her", what is this the book 1984?! next thing you know we'll be only using the words "good" "double good" and "bad" and "double bad"...
cookie for who knows what i'm talking about

 

[PatSilverFox]

It's fine, they are just calling them all by the same term, like using "children" instead of "boys and girls"

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Alright, so the idea of things in this preschool is to encourage the break down of gender stereotypes (aka girls gotta love make up or boys love cars) by trying to implement "gender neutralization" attics. For example, "Lego bricks and other building blocks are intentionally placed next to the kitchen, to make sure the children draw no mental barriers between cooking and construction."

Eh, seems harmless enough. I doubt it'll work in the long run, of course, but again, harmless enough.

But then it gets ridiculous!
"A story about two male giraffes who are sad to be childless ? until they come across an abandoned crocodile egg.

...wait, what? An abandoned crocodile egg? Goddamnit, these people have failed at biology and basic self-preservation. Giraffes do not lay eggs. Why would they find and nurture an egg? Worse, they're finding and nurturing a predator. When you're a land-based herbivore, that's like raising a child who you know is going to become a cannibalistic serial killer.

Nearly all the children's books deal with homosexual couples, single parents or adopted children. There are no "Snow White," ''Cinderella" or other classic fairy tales seen as cementing stereotypes." What I don't get is how Cinderella is going cement stereotypes?

...again, what?

Aw, shit. I see it now. I was afraid of this day: the day when having heterosexual protagonists is deemed as "cementing stereotypes."

They even try to get rid of the words "him" & "her" (han/hon in swedish) and replace it with a made-up word. That is not breaking down gender stereotypes, that is just being unreasonable. What will happen to these children when they get older and realize that there is no subject term called "hen" in the real world.

Yeah, you're right, OP. At this point, it's gone beyond trying to dispel stereotypes and gone into the realm of trying to deny actual, physical differences.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

You may notice I've said several times I want people to choose for themselves what they are, not us label them.

I did, and then I noticed you labelling them anyway. You'll notice I never labelled people apart from in my very first point where the boy noticed the girl was different.

That's nothing to do with gender roles, that's a burgeoning child's mind coming to terms with another's body. That automatically defeats your gender issue because the children will split people into "tails" and "no-tails", to borrow from League of Gentlemen.

I'm against telling people what they are and treating them like a sex or gender that we've decided for them, before they've even had to chance to choose for themselves.

Then you have to work on what you want them to be instead. One generation simply isn't enough for a peer group to develop where gender identity is irrelevant. All you are doing is isolating these children from information which will help them survive in the outside world. Women DO get unrealistic expectations of them, as do men, but they are different.

People are just people. Be whatever you want. It doesn't matter to me; you'll still be you and I'll treat you the exact same as everyone else.

But the world won't. Unless you change the world (and that takes something as huge as World War 1, The Industrial Revoloution or the Declaration of Independence) then all you are doing is leaving these children with dreams that turn into nightmares.

If you want "Him" and "Her" to disappear, you need to know what you're going to get instead. Because simply waving the word wand just causes misery when the rest of the world gets involved.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

The sex-neutral word should be "Citoyen"


Next they'll be changing the calendar because May is a girl's name and the first letters of July-November spell Jason. A nice 10 month calendar would be good. We must also do something about that awful sexist thing called Religion. Replace it with a national cult about a newspaper writer.

 

[Innegativeion]

If anything, this looks uncomfortably like brainwashing.

Um, wouldn't brainwashing BE the logical extreme of "ignorance"?

 

[Zyntoxic]

Hm.. I can't say I'm against this as a rule even though I don't believe it to be very effective.

Thing is, the roles of men and women are being taught to us on a very early age, most of it the parents are barely aware of that they teach their children.
For example, did you know that plenty of studies on this behaviour have shown that parents unconciously give poisitive and negative signs to their toddlers choices depending on their own norms, things such as the choice of toy or choice of colour when drawing?

And that boys would tend more towards violence than girls has nothing to do with biology, not until puberty anw. The body of a boy or girl are very similar up until that point in their lives.

Even though fairytales my have some nice lesson to tell they are still wrapped in morals and expectations from another time, like Cinderella: She works hard but that's not why she gets the prince, she get him because she is beautiful. Sure, her fairy godmother gave her a chance because cinderella is sucha good child, but this only ads to the sexist steriotype; be a good girl and cook and clean and if you are pretty on top of that, you can get married to a rich man, and this is her greates achievement... And guys: Get rich and then you can have your pick amongst all of the women in the world, it's not like they can say no, you have the money.
Hell, in comparison, teletubbies are better suited for teaching morals...


Actually I think it is good to do your best to get rid of gender roles, sure there are biological differences and there always will be, but in modern society we should be able to get past even thouse differences, humans are barely restrained otherwise to "the way of nature" so why would we stop there.
Men can carry children and women can theoretically (i'm not sure if this has been done though) impregnate other womens' eggs. This is science people, and we have it, and with it anything is possible.

The one thing I have a problem with is that these effots are just gonna disappear because you wont se 100% results from this now, it is a slow process, I doubt most of us will even be alive when it finally happens, but it is worth the effort so that one day in the future any one of any gender can make any choices in their life.

Todays norms are just as bad for women as for men, it is a deep rooted injustice towards everyone.
You might not think much about it but you just as much as I and almost every other living person in today's society are affected by these norms, and they restrain all of us, and they affect how we perceive the world and things like this.

I have prejudice towards stright and gay alike, towards men and women, black and white, and this is only because of prejudice society, unwillingly or not, have placed on me, and by being aware of it, you might be able to change some of them but probably not all of them, but most importantly you can see to it that as little prejudice as possible is place upon you child.

 

[Ledan]

Well.... if there are no stories of standard stereotypes at all, then isn't it discriminating against people who actually fit these stereotypes? And though it's showing them several ways of life, they are hiding one way of life because it is the one most people lead.......

 

[pubbing]

This reminds me of that south park episode where they took everything that could possibly be religious or offensive out of the Christmas play and it just turned into a big pile of shit that everyone equally hated.

 

[Flauros]

The problem with this is that girls and boys are actually different. No, you shouldn't force them to be different but they'll just naturally differ and that's something you shouldn't fight.

Making up a word at a formative age is also wildly irresponsible. Words are how we communicate and making up a word for frequent usage is just ridiculous! No one will know what they're talking about!

My sons bilingual. People tell me that will make him smarter, not talk gibberish when he grows up.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

If you want "Him" and "Her" to disappear, you need to know what you're going to get instead. Because simply waving the word wand just causes misery when the rest of the world gets involved.

I didn't say that. Nor did I say I want the world to change "in one generation". That's all you putting words in my mouth for some unknown reason.

What I want is a world where penis doesn't equal male by default and vagina doesn't equal female by default. Yes, there is a difference. Everyone is different. That's no my problem here. I couldn't care less with that. Two kids notice "hey, you have that and I don't" they are right. That kid does have something that one doesn't. I'm sure some kids like some things others don't too, and others are very loud, some quiet, some smart, some not so smart. Anatomy is such a trivial part of who we are as people. Training kids to care is just stupid in my opinion.

I don't like people forcing kids into gender labels they like and find easier to use. They have a penis? Super. They have a vagina? Super. Obviously those two physical features are different. But please don't tell them they are somehow "different" and that one is male and one female. Let them decide.

And by different I mean more than them having a different anatomy. I think it's obvious we're talking on a deeper level than that, but I thought it worth mentioning.

 

[Daggedawg]

Christ... It's times like these I shake my head in shame of my country. Don't get me wrong, breaking down gender stereotypes is fine by me. But to actually teach the kids "made up" words and grammar? That's just ridiculous!