No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?
- Thread starter Heartcafe
- Start date
The ironic thing is that leaving out stereotypes and trying to neutralize genders makes them stereotypes as well.
What the fuck? The ONLY thing they are doing is removing social expectations: that boys and girls can choose to play and hang out with anything and anyone regardless of gender biases constructed and enforced by us adults. If anything, it's emphasizing individuality. Raising kids in the spirit of mutual understanding and respect is the recipe to avoid mocking and discrimination.Iron Criterion said:
You're acting like you can't put the same spin on conventional preschools. Here, let me try: they still adhere to and propagate 1950s-era morality and systematically indoctrinate children to conform to scientifically-debunked "true" gender models which they can never hope to live up to, dooming them to a life of feeling inadequate and insecure. HOOO, repression of subversive "womanly" influences, elevation of the chronically-phobic-and-insecure irrational male ideal, celebration of "diversity" in the form of slavery, racism and xenophobia.
Oh wait, that second part actually happened. They were called the Middle Ages.
Isn't imposing on children the mantra of "YOU MUST BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN A STEREOTYPICAL BOY/GIRL!" just as bad as imposing on them "YOU MUST BE A STEREOTYPICAL BOY/GIRL!"
i don't think 5 year olds think this critically.Sneaky Paladin said:
i was a very tomboy girl and i loved fairy tales.
kids just love nice stories with likeable and funny characters.
kids don't care about subtext or social implications, i think it's the adults who over-think this.
I agree with this. I think media for little children can be bad sometimes, for example it can make girls all obsessed about marying, and it can stay that way for their whole lives.conflictofinterests said:
I definitely don't agree with everything they're doing, but I think the gender neutral personal pronoun (At least I think that's what it's called) is a good idea. I don't see why so much languages don't have one. What if I came up with the idea to introduce different personal pronouns for black people and white people? I'd be called insane. That would be discriminatory, and now that I think about it the words him and her are kinda too. I get a feeling those words are a remnant of our old society where men > women. I don't really see the purpose of refering to people with different personal pronouns depending on their gender.
I'm a guy, before anyone calls me a feminazi.
Most of that school's propositions are dumb and those that make sence might not change anything (or they might), but they won't do any harm either. So... go right ahead, school.
That's not the way language works. Words can be created and evolve over time (as i mentioned earlier 'man' used to be gender neutral) but they can't just be 'made up', taught to preschoolers, and expected to hold water. they need to evolve in the language on their own or at least be used by a majority of the population.DoctorPhil said:
Equality is one thing but this school has gone more than a little overboard.
No I haven't seen that, and I disagree with it. At least the way Morgan Freeman is un-eloquently arguing his position.Terminate421 said:
What he is literally saying is: Forget all differences which make people unique
What he means: Don't relegate my identity to the fact that I have pigment in my skin cells which absorbs all colours of the light spectrum other than black. I would prefer to interact with you on the basis of my accomplishments and lifestyle, not my heritage.
What the creepy ass preschool is doing: Attempting to ignore something which governs who we are. Genetically, hormonally, reproductively, and socially.
There have been many experiments in which the participants ( usually volunteered by their parents) have been isolated, or manipulated into thinking that they are of the opposite gender. Even to the extent where they have had other genitals implanted onto their bodies. Despite these manipulations, however, they have had extreme identity crises because their bodies tell them they are a male, while the lab made them grow up as femlaes, for example.
Thus proving that all gender roles are not dictated by society, but also by your body's and your brain's natural functions.
The "school" is ignoring this fact completely, and a lot of kids are going to have unnecessarily hard lives because of it.
They're trying to be progressive, but
yep, also, there are some differences between genders that are so obvious a preschooler could figure it out. It's not like they're teaching that males and females have equal abilities. They're just ignoring that there's any difference between the two.Deschamps said:
This just encourages me if I do end up having children to home-school them so they're not taught this horrible trash. I am all for equality but doing this gets rid of a child's gender identity.
There is breaking down gender stereotypes and then there is denying people their own gender distinctions.Oathy said:
People DO have gender identity, it is as wrong to force a typical male or female to be genderless as it is to force a transgender person to act within their assigned role. The very existence of transgender individuals, those who for example are born physically male, raised as a male yet still "know" they are female because their brains are feminised in the womb. Or vica verca.
This whole thing feels like a terribly misguided experiment to prove something that there is a lot of evidence against. Namely the "tabula rasta" theory that we are all born blank slates it seems especially on gender identity are not true. Also on sexuality, as evidence by how disastrous it is to attempt to change people's sexuality by outside forces.
YES it is good to remove stigma of males cooking or girls playing with toys, but not to the point of denying that there is any distinction between the genders.
"The taxpayer-funded preschool which opened last year in the liberal Sodermalm district of Stockholm for kids aged 1 to 6 is among the most radical examples of Sweden's efforts to engineer equality between the sexes from childhood onward."
Wow, that doesn't sound incredibly biased at all.
Wow, that doesn't sound incredibly biased at all.
While I generally agree with what this school is trying to do, I disagree with removing fairy tales like Cinderella and whatnot. The whole point of gender neutralization/equality/whatever is to allow people choice when they forge their gender identity. If you remove the option to be girly and submissive, you aren't offering neutralization and choice, you're just indoctrinating children into another kind of gender barrier of your own forging.
Got me there. I shouldn't post on this kind of thread at midnight, I say dumb things.Innegativeion said:
When you name your school "Equality School" That is the first sign that whatever is going on inside does not equality make.
And the library books virtually all proposing minority ideals, that is not gender equality, it is gender bias. If you want equality you need to have "Jim and Tim bake a cake" alongside "Jim and Tim have a swordfight", not replacing it.
Does this remind anyone else of "Ingsoc" from 1984? Getting rid of the words that people use to express themselves negatively, with the aim that they can no longer express dissatisfaction at the ruling state. The reason we use 'him' and 'her' are because they give us a good idea of who we are talking about, of who to expect coming through the door. It is descriptive, specific language designed to produce a mental picture. Making this description more vague is a step backwards.
And the library books virtually all proposing minority ideals, that is not gender equality, it is gender bias. If you want equality you need to have "Jim and Tim bake a cake" alongside "Jim and Tim have a swordfight", not replacing it.
Exactly, this is the main problem, we are taking a minor issue and making it the main drive of the school, Yes gender equality is an issue that should be tackled, and negative gender stereotypes do exist, but there are also positive gender stereotypes. They have gone too far, and it has led to ridiculous things like this happening: "Bergkvist noted on her blog that the state-funded Swedish Science Council had granted $80,000 for a postdoctoral fellowship aimed at analyzing "the trumpet as a symbol of gender." No Sweden, that is not a good use of $80,000. Seriously, get a grip.NinjaDeathSlap said:
You know that feeling of outrage you got when you read the OP? That's your privilege being challenged. Though it may hurt now, it is the only way to progress as a society.