No Right Answer: Best Call to Action Ever

CorvusFerreum

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Ahem......



Serious note: I think neither is a really good call to action, as both miss a really strong motivation to refuse. Harry's lacks more than Neo's in this regard.
 

Pebkio

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Alright, about six months from when I posted my thread about this show. Let's see what we got:

Okay, there's a lot I disagree with. For instance, it's been established that a good quest starts with the refusal of the call to action. This sets up the "only you can do this" thing because anyone in their right minds would refuse to walk into Modor unless it's absolutely needed. So no, your second criteria blows. But I'm not here to argue semantics... let's talk about quality...

Choices for "best" - Again, I have to wonder if hey did much research for this. Not because these are, arguably, NOT the best choices, but because they aren't even that fun to argue. The Matrix's call to action was a good 15 minutes in which Neo has to choose weather to jump dangerous heights or let the FBI/CIA/Whatever get him... to get out of the car when he gets a gun pointed at him, and finally the red-pill blue-pill thing. Harry Potter's call to action was "You're a Wizard, Harry." How do you argue those well? I like how they alluded to another choice, even if it was poorly done, but they really should've found two prevalent examples of call to action moments and argued those, not the series themselves. Which brings me to my next point:

Preparing to argue - Now, I will grant that the seem much more prepared to argue their case. They aren't umming and ahhing a lot. Therefore, they aren't having to do a lot of hard video cuts and no sound cuts (that I noticed). Good on them, but they didn't even discuss the calls to action. They just discussed the potential motivators to accepting the call to action. That's one part of the topic. But then they start talking about backstory, character arcs and the direction of the stories. What the hell is that, I thought they were talking about the "call to action" moments of the franchises.

Gimmick - That "suddenly a white screen with black writing thing" is still as jarring and out-of-place as it ever was. Do most people really like that? I don't know, I guess that's your thing. I liked the 16-bit score board now, I guess.

Editing - As I said, they seem to be much better about the hard cuts thing. A+ and a gold star for that... I'm being serious. But certain sound mistakes aren't being recut for some reason, they even went so far as to print subtitles.

---

To further explain what I mean about the call to actions thing, I will list two I know of that are really great examples.

Star Trek 2009 - The son of a hero, who is rebellious and a trouble-maker, is called upon to serve for the good of the world(s). He refuses which sends him into a self-reflective depression in which he has to decide what is important. Aside from starting him on his quest, it also let's him grow as a person. His history as a child made the call to action seem fantastical while the history his family has with the Federation added to the importance of his accepting. It also set up the theme of "all I needed was someone to believe that I should be a hero because of who I am and not because of who my father was"... to which a lot of people can relate.

The Fellowship of the Rings - Frodo's call to action took a good long while. It started in Bag End after Bilbo left. All he knows of the object of the quest is that it was his uncle's weird ring. As soon as he learns it's evil, he tries to give the ring to Gandalf, thus refusing the quest. Later, when he finally gets to Rivendale, he again tries to give the quest to someone else, but after seeing everyone tear at each other's throat, he finally fully accepts the call to action. This shows a deep character who's trying to do the right thing but nothing crazy. "If there are no others around," he thinks to himself, "then I guess I'll have to take care of it... but only until someone more capable can take over." That's how normal people are; this makes him and his story relatable, he just happened to realized that he was the MOST capable person he could find. That's why his quest seems so epic, because he went on a miniquest trying to find a reason to refuse the call to action.

There...

...no mention of where the stories went, of the backstories beyond "this effects the hero's choice", or of the series as a whole. Just the call to action and what it represented. Oh, and they were wrong about Luke Skywalker, he still had his call to action moment when he refused to go with Ben Kenobi farther than Anchorage. He only accepted after learning the empire incinerated his family over some pissant droids.
 

Something Amyss

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I dislike the "hero's journey" argument because it more or less applies to Harry and Neo as well. The fact that we have a monomyth, the "Hero's journey" should be telling.

Anyway, I was thinking this would be more about battle cries, like "Avengers Assemble!", "Rangers ho!", or "My pants are on fire!"

BrotherRool said:
Screw the films, Neville Longbottom was the hero. He stood in front of the darklord by himself screaming defiance whilst being tortured by the most powerful being alive and then pulled a mother effin sword out of a mother effin hat and killed the snake, destroying the horcrux.

The films were so unfair on him
It took 7 books for Harry Potter to beat Voldemort. Neville could have done it in three.

...I'm really glad someone other than the main three got a chance to shine.

Ralen-Sharr said:
is it just me or does this series almost always seem slanted in Chris's favor?

Harry Potter - conceivable that someone else could have pulled off what he did

Neo - NOBODY could have pulled it off BUT Neo because he was different. He was able to stomp agents into the ground that would rip anyone else limb from limb.
Harry Potter: The Chosen One because he was marked by his enemy.

Neo: The Chosen One because ponies.

We have explained to us why Potter was special. Why WAS Neo special?
 

Something Amyss

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Pebkio said:
Not because these arguably NOT the best choices, but because they aren't even that fun to argue.
I miss the days where the "best" was nowhere near it but they argued anyway. These guys are respective champions, but it is a bit dull, innit?

Star Trek 2009 - The son of a hero, who is rebellious and a trouble-maker, is called upon to serve for the good of the world(s). He refuses which sends him into a self-reflective depression in which he has to decide what is important. Aside from starting him on his quest, it also let's him grow as a person. His history as a child made the call to action seem fantastical while the history his family has with the Federation added to the importance of his accepting. It also set up the theme of "all I needed was someone to believe that I should be a hero because of who I am and not because of who my father was"... to which a lot of people can relate.
My father put forward a compelling comparison between Kirk's rise and Arthur's in Excalibur. That alone makes this a more interesting call to action for me.

I also found James T. Kirk's ascension more interesting because he was, essentially, living in his own shadow.

"James T. Kirk was considered to be a great man. He went on to captain the USS Enterprise... but that was another life. A life I will deprive you of, just like I did your father!"
 

Farther than stars

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Bilbo Baggins easily beats Harry Potter. Harry's call isn't so much a call to action as it is: "Time for school!" Contrast that to Bilbo who literally gets told: "We're going on an adventure." He doesn't want to go at first, but then he takes that leap of faith and gets catapulted into all kinds of mayhem and wonder. That's a far more compelling call to action.

Zachary Amaranth said:
My father...
Careful, boy. That kind of language will get your hand chopped off. ;p
In all honesty though, I hadn't thought of King Arthur. I suppose there are quite a few other examples out there which surpass this debate. Come to think of it, Game of Thrones itself has quite a few interesting calls to action.
 

Azaraxzealot

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Ralen-Sharr said:
is it just me or does this series almost always seem slanted in Chris's favor?
Not just you. I've noticed this as well and I've wondered why no one else pointed it out until now.

I would say best call to action had to be in Journey.
 

RJ 17

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lol at the ending because uhhhh yeah, I was about to get on here and say "What about Luke!"

And I'd argue that his Call of Duty call to action wasn't set up by Obi...his call to action is coming home to find that the Empire frickin' incinerated his aunt and uncle. Before that he wasn't sold on the whole prospect of going off and fighting. When he gets home and sees their charred skeletal remains, he's like "Son of a ***** must pay!"
 

Barciad

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'They may take our lives, but they will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!'

William Wallace - Braveheart. Totally historically inaccurate but still great fun.
 

Pebkio

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Zachary Amaranth said:
I miss the days where the "best" was nowhere near it but they argued anyway. These guys are respective champions, but it is a bit dull, innit?
I wouldn't call them "champions"... they don't even seem to actually know what "call to action" means. They really only talk about the motivators behind ACCEPTING the call to action, as well as who could've accepted the quest. They also talked about later stuff that was way way after even the Meeting of the Goddess. I mean, they were even talking about the characters progression after he was already on the quest, that has NOTHING to do with the "call to action" or even the motivations thing.

There is a whole spectrum of details to focus on when talking about the Call to Action.

Spectacle: Dead Like Me's call to action was a toilet seat from the space station falling on a poor girl's head from space. That wasn't even a hero's quest... but it was certainly a call to action.

Unexpectedness: Rincewind from Discworld was just some incompetent wizard-in-training who's life was changed forever because he read the wrong book. This was explained In medias res, but that's still a call to action that could've been used as a good example.

Thematically Important: In firefly, and I'll admit that a bunch conflict happened before this, but the true call to action happened when River was "activated" and attacked the bar full of people. That's when the quest really got started. This was also the big hook of the plot, meaning that the Call to Action was important to the continued theme. You could use the ring in Lord of the Rings as another good example.

But these two were off busily talking about the stupid plot twists or some philosophical tangent about why these heros were the only ones who could've been the heros. Where was I? Oh right...

...so no, these two aren't champions. To be fair, they still argued... only just about who was the better hero about 2/3rds in... but my point was that the "calls to action" that they chose didn't lend themselves very well to being discussed or argued.
 

JaceArveduin

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therandombear said:
Proverbial Jon said:
therandombear said:
5 is a brilliant movie because Imelda Staunton. Nuff said.
Ye..I don't get it, everyone I know who watched the 3rd movie, loved it, even those who read the books. I'm like: "Wtf, how can you like it, so many cuts and so much is missing!"
Personally it was Luna that made the movie for me. There's just something about how Evanna Lynch plays her that is just... perfect.
 

Pebkio

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Harry Potter: The Chosen One because he was marked by his enemy.

Neo: The Chosen One because ponies.

We have explained to us why Potter was special. Why WAS Neo special?
Did Marty Mcfly have to be special to go on a quest through time? His call to action was a late night phone call to go film some guys car... and then that guy is shot and killed and Marty is sent back in time. We didn't HAVE to be told why Doc Brown called Marty to have the "Call to Action" part make sense.

But I have been arguing that their choices of the "call to action" section just suck, even from an entertainment standpoint.

mrm5561 said:
i would actually argue captain america on this. weak little kid from Brooklyn with a big heart who undergoes experiment that almost kills him, becomes the only super soldier, by the end of his movie saves America, and by the end of the avengers he saves the world. all of this while fighting 2 gods, a man wearing armor strong enough to destroy an entire army. and he bosses around the hulk.
This has nothing to do with the "call to action". In the movie, Steven's call to action was "I want to be in the military and am willing to do anything without thinking twice". His call to action was actually lacking.
Barciad said:
'They may take our lives, but they will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!'

William Wallace - Braveheart. Totally historically inaccurate but still great fun.
If I remember correctly, William had just gotten back from a training (or something), heard of the troubles of woman abuse Scotland, decided not to do much about that until his... wife?... was killed. Fun movie, but not really the best call to action ever.

Aptspire said:
Call to action? How about Saving humanity from extermination (not just enslavement), WITHOUT gaining superpowers.
So, yeah,
I don't know if you can tell that I finished the first (no spoilers, please) Ender's Game novel, but yeah...
No sir, that is not a call to action, that is a character arc. Andrew's call to action is when Graff offered to put him in Battle School. Yes, there were several moments in which he could've turned away later on, but that could then be classified as overcoming obstacles. This also brings up the point that the protagonist doesn't need to understand the quest to be able to accept the quest.
 

Darth_Payn

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Star Trek 2009 - The son of a hero, who is rebellious and a trouble-maker, is called upon to serve for the good of the world(s). He refuses which sends him into a self-reflective depression in which he has to decide what is important. Aside from starting him on his quest, it also let's him grow as a person. His history as a child made the call to action seem fantastical while the history his family has with the Federation added to the importance of his accepting. It also set up the theme of "all I needed was someone to believe that I should be a hero because of who I am and not because of who my father was"... to which a lot of people can relate.
My father put forward a compelling comparison between Kirk's rise and Arthur's in Excalibur. That alone makes this a more interesting call to action for me.

I also found James T. Kirk's ascension more interesting because he was, essentially, living in his own shadow.

"James T. Kirk was considered to be a great man. He went on to captain the USS Enterprise... but that was another life. A life I will deprive you of, just like I did your father!"
I read on Cracked.com that J.J.Abrams' STAR TREK accidentally borrows quite a few things from STAR WARS.
 

rayen020

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How about the protagonists from Pirates of the Caribbean that aren't Jack Sparrow? I mean will could've just stayed in his shop waiting for the royal navy to bring elizabeth back. But no, The commodore was a jerk about it and disregarded him. So what's he do uses his info to get the guy tha can help him the most. and Elizabeth, going from princess fauxplotmacguffin in the first movie to badass pirate king in the last.

Also maybe the leader of the 3rd st. saints?
 

Pebkio

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rayen020 said:
How about the protagonists from Pirates of the Caribbean that aren't Jack Sparrow? I mean will could've just stayed in his shop waiting for the royal navy to bring elizabeth back. But no, The commodore was a jerk about it and disregarded him. So what's he do uses his info to get the guy tha can help him the most. and Elizabeth, going from princess fauxplotmacguffin in the first movie to badass pirate king in the last.

Also maybe the leader of the 3rd st. saints?
Certainly all three had of them (Capt. Jack Sparrow, Elizabeth Swan and William Turner) had their perspective call to action for the first movie (hired by Will, captured by undead pirates and love-interest captured by pirates). However, only William was on the hero's journey. Until the second movie and then Liz had to also become someone new in preparation for the completion of the quest. Jack had already completed his own journey before the movies started... which was to never-endingly quest for quests. Actually, whatever quest he personally went on to find and acquire that compass was probably his "hero's journey".

Player wasn't on a hero's journey. Maybe for the first game, I wouldn't know. But I do know that he didn't even have a call to action in the second one. He woke up from a coma and started fuckin' the city up. So I guess his call to action was "he opened his eyes". It's more like he was just continuing the quest that went unresolved from the first game. Anyway, the third game does have a call to action... even if that call to action was dumb. "You get kidnapped and lose all your moneys. Then you fall from sky into same but different city. Then get missiles from space."
 

Chris Pranger

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Pebkio said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
I miss the days where the "best" was nowhere near it but they argued anyway. These guys are respective champions, but it is a bit dull, innit?
I wouldn't call them "champions"... they don't even seem to actually know what "call to action" means. They really only talk about the motivators behind ACCEPTING the call to action, as well as who could've accepted the quest. They also talked about later stuff that was way way after even the Meeting of the Goddess. I mean, they were even talking about the characters progression after he was already on the quest, that has NOTHING to do with the "call to action" or even the motivations thing.

There is a whole spectrum of details to focus on when talking about the Call to Action.

Spectacle: Dead Like Me's call to action was a toilet seat from the space station falling on a poor girl's head from space. That wasn't even a hero's quest... but it was certainly a call to action.

Unexpectedness: Rincewind from Discworld was just some incompetent wizard-in-training who's life was changed forever because he read the wrong book. This was explained In medias res, but that's still a call to action that could've been used as a good example.

Thematically Important: In firefly, and I'll admit that a bunch conflict happened before this, but the true call to action happened when River was "activated" and attacked the bar full of people. That's when the quest really got started. This was also the big hook of the plot, meaning that the Call to Action was important to the continued theme. You could use the ring in Lord of the Rings as another good example.

But these two were off busily talking about the stupid plot twists or some philosophical tangent about why these heros were the only ones who could've been the heros. Where was I? Oh right...

...so no, these two aren't champions. To be fair, they still argued... only just about who was the better hero about 2/3rds in... but my point was that the "calls to action" that they chose didn't lend themselves very well to being discussed or argued.
I think the issue here is with semantics. To be fair, we got derailed from that main topic of "the call to action" partly because we just spun into a "Harry vs Neo" debate, but if the term is the only thing that's really sticking in your craw, please by all means just assume the title of the episodes was "Harry Potter vs Neo". Half the time that's what we'd like to do but the rules of naming demand we attempt to find something more all-encompassing. In hindsight, we should have gone with "Best Chosen One", though that would have required a divergence into Kung-Pow.
 

Something Amyss

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Farther than stars said:
Careful, boy. That kind of language will get your hand chopped off. ;p
At least I didn't end with "will hear about this!"

Pebkio said:
I wouldn't call them "champions"... they don't even seem to actually know what "call to action" means.
I wouldn't call the guys running the show champions, but I was referring to the characters chosen. And "champions" might be a stretch, but they really are the top of the league in terms of awareness.

Pebkio said:
Did Marty Mcfly have to be special to go on a quest through time? His call to action was a late night phone call to go film some guys car... and then that guy is shot and killed and Marty is sent back in time. We didn't HAVE to be told why Doc Brown called Marty to have the "Call to Action" part make sense.
And nobody's arguing about the greatness, either.

Darth_Payn said:
I read on Cracked.com that J.J.Abrams' STAR TREK accidentally borrows quite a few things from STAR WARS.
Well, Kirk did make out with his sister....

I kid.

I can't think of specific instances, but I totally wouldn't be shocked.

Well, I can think of a couple instances from the Into Darkness trailers...
 

Pebkio

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Chris Pranger said:
I think the issue here is with semantics. To be fair, we got derailed from that main topic of "the call to action" partly because we just spun into a "Harry vs Neo" debate, but if the term is the only thing that's really sticking in your craw, please by all means just assume the title of the episodes was "Harry Potter vs Neo". Half the time that's what we'd like to do but the rules of naming demand we attempt to find something more all-encompassing. In hindsight, we should have gone with "Best Chosen One", though that would have required a divergence into Kung-Pow.
To be fair to you, you're absolutely right, I am focused on the Call to Action bit of everything. But to be fair to me, if you use the terminology, literary blowhards like this guy [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/Pebkio] are going to harp on semantics and improper use.

HOWEVER! If you did just want to pit Neo vs Harry Potter, I can dig that. Well, Harry potter, wins, for one. I wish you could just compare any two characters that you wanted. That way you wouldn't feel restrained by the topic at hand and the anal-retentive on this site can know what they're in for. But I can totally give a logical category in which to compare them:

Best Hero in the War of Good Vs Evil

I can't think of many better than those two. Certainly more was going on, but not many have an all out confrontation with basically themselves but evil. I mean, you could even get into how Neo changed Agent Smith into his "evil" adversary while Voldemort change Harry into his "good" adversary creating an equal but opposite thing... but the title might be long and weird.

...wait... crap! Ashley from Army of Darkness! Oh well, Bruce Campbell can't win them all, he was pretty horrible at being a hero anyway.
 

Sewa_Yunga

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Speaking of Luke Skywalker, what happened to the Space Janitors? Shouldn't the show have continued by now?
 

Casual Shinji

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Proverbial Jon said:
It's an odd situation with 3; movie critics couldn't praise it enough while the people who had actually read the books thought it was god-awful.
I think it's because of all the Harry Potter movies, the third is the only one that has the most semblance of being an actual movie. Because it had a genuinely competent director at the helm, who understood pacing, composition, lighting, and cinematography.
 

Demagogue

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Ralen-Sharr said:
is it just me or does this series almost always seem slanted in Chris's favor?

Harry Potter - conceivable that someone else could have pulled off what he did

Neo - NOBODY could have pulled it off BUT Neo because he was different. He was able to stomp agents into the ground that would rip anyone else limb from limb.
It's because Chris usually goes first... In this one for example:

Chris: 'You're a Wizard Harry' Point
Kyle: B A badASS point
Chris: No Limit to Magic Point
Kyle: Something in your life isn't real Point
Chris: Voldemort Choose Harry

Drinking Round Chris: Motivation gets worse and worse for Harry, Neo doesn't lose people
Drinking Round Kyle: Neo can't go back, Harry has gone to a boarding school


So Chris got four opportunities for points, while Kyle only got three.