No Right Answer: Strongest Female Video Game Lead Ever

[magicmonkeybars]

Well, if we're talkin' totally awesome badass women, I bring Kreia from KOTOR 2 to the table.

Spoiler

You want someone badass, you can't do much better than Kreia.

^^ This, poor Kreia, so over looked and under appreciated yet the best female character in years if not ever.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Jade from beyond good and evil says hi. Honestly this I found odd, since neither are the player character. I guess she doesn't have to be, but there are a lot of good ones out there.

 

[balladbird]

Samus Aran. People didn't know she was even a girl until she took the helmet off. She's that strong. And yet still feminine.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but if no one knew she was female prior to her removing her helmet, how was she feminine?

As to the topic, I respect that you guys have a definition of strong female character that's different from strong character who happens to be a woman, though given the criteria you set I have a hard time picturing many characters who can qualify.

I have no real problems with your choices, personally. Contemporary doesn't always equal bad, and at least the western video game world has managed to go through it's weird "moe" phase (look at games like Walking Dead, TloU, and Infinite and tell me I'm wrong) without being as creepy about the whole thing as the japanese, so there's that.

 

[Branindain]

Gotta go with Ellie.

Not only is she a female, but she's also a child.

To have such a well written character that encompasses two traits that usually fall flat on their face, is a godsend.

Although, I'd throw Clementine into that list too.

The character on your avatar is a pretty kickass female lead too btw.

 

[wildpeaks]

Neither of these characters are "lead" characters. Jade from BGE is a lead, obviously Lara Croft, Bayonetta, Ecco the dolphin, Samus, etc... Those are leads. Ellie and Elizabeth are both supporting characters.

This: both are merely supporting characters, great ones, but just NPC.

 

[wildpeaks]

The violence is The Last of Us might be more realistic, but Bioshock is more prevalent, gory, and even runs counter to the narrative.

It's weird, I don't recall any gory encounter in Bioshock Infinite at all, except maybe the guy right before you acquire the murder of crows vigor?

 

[Ukomba]

The violence is The Last of Us might be more realistic, but Bioshock is more prevalent, gory, and even runs counter to the narrative.

It's weird, I don't recall any gory encounter in Bioshock Infinite at all, except maybe the guy right before you acquire the murder of crows vigor?

It's dependent on your play style of course. The Sky-hook kills tend to be the most brutal and gory, even one where you grab them with it for a few seconds then make their whole head explode in a bloody splash that fills the whole screen.

It's not just that, but the whole game is nearly one prolonged killing spree often times of policemen or average towns people. The violence in Bioshock Infinite feels casual, in contrast The Last of Us puts great emotional weight on life and death. The differences in the deaths in these two games are as different as it is between South Park and Game of Thrones.

 

[wildpeaks]

Btw I irk everytime I hear the word "female", we're not dogs.

 

[wildpeaks]

The violence is The Last of Us might be more realistic, but Bioshock is more prevalent, gory, and even runs counter to the narrative.

I guess my brain must have censored that one because the skyhokk stomp is indeed my favorite attack (and I wish there were more maps you can use it, like was hinted in the E3 trailers originally), yet I have no memory of it being gory ? Please tell me I didn't play a censored version....

 

[Ukomba]

The violence is The Last of Us might be more realistic, but Bioshock is more prevalent, gory, and even runs counter to the narrative.

I guess my brain must have censored that one because the skyhokk stomp is indeed my favorite attack (and I wish there were more maps you can use it, like was hinted in the E3 trailers originally), yet I have no memory of it being gory ? Please tell me I didn't play a censored version, I'd be pissed....

Couldn't tell you. Do any of these look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXX8rkCb_Mo

What I do know is the violence was so heavy that my wife couldn't connect with the character and didn't even want to play the game. She liked the original Bioshock, but hated Booker.

 

[Firefilm]

Dan is not Dan's real name?
Does that mean Dan isn't the law?

Dan is my real name, who says it's not? Also, I am unicorn judge dredd Dan, and I am the law. Love the still, BTW!

 

[Balkan]

I haven't watched this episode yet but here's my opinion on Elizabeth. The developers said that her outfit is designed as a superhero costume (simple, bright and recognizable.) And that's the problem. She is perfect, the same way a superhero is. I prefer Ellie , because she feels more human and complex. Liz, thought better looking, is more bland and predictable.
EDIT: Wow, Ellie actually won? I didn't expect that.
Also, some people might suggest that Clementine is the best female character, but she's more of a child than a woman. The differences between a boy and a girl are not as big as the differences between a man and a woman. Both Ellie and Elizabeth grow up to be adults during the game, while Clem doesn't change until the very end.

 

[SoulChaserJ]

Neither of these characters are "lead" characters. Jade from BGE is a lead, obviously Lara Croft, Bayonetta, Ecco the dolphin, Samus, etc... Those are leads. Ellie and Elizabeth are both supporting characters.

Dear No Right Answer:

Please learn what a "lead character" is.
Ellie and Elizabeth are both supporting rolls,

A leading character is one who the story centers around. It doesn't matter if you play them or not. They are still focal points of the story and therefore are by all accounts lead roles. In fact for Bioshock the story is more Elizabeth's then Booker's. Player Character =/= Lead Character. Don't get on the No Right Answer guy's backs when you guys don't understand the definitions yourself.

Their participation in the plot is either passive or forced upon them.

Please explain how either Ellie or Elizabeth are "passive" characters. I remember Elizabeth being an instigator for at least 50% of the story. Heck, Booker is more of a passive character then Elizabeth half the time. He just goes somewhere because he is told to, that is not an active agent, that is a passive agent. Being a "support" in the game mechanics does not mean they are a "support" story characters seeing as how these are used in completely different senses. Also how the character comes to action is in no way a determining factor of them being a lead or not. That would mean that Harry Potter is only a lead character half the time, since most of the time things just happen around him. Being forced into a situation doesn't take away being a lead. Being passive in a situation does not mean they are not a lead. Having the story focused around you means you are a lead. Ellie and Elizabeth fit that description.

Elizabeth may be the most forefront female character but she is not the lead...Booker is. It's HIS story, Elizabeth is merely there as a tool. On your Ellie argument, I can't say. I certainly haven't played the game since they saw fit not to bring it to PC. However I will offer you this. If Ellie is a female lead...then I guess Clementine(The Walking Dead) is as well...and if that's the case I'd take Clem over the other NPC's you could think of. At least Clem made me care about what was happening in game. How many NPC tag-alongs can offer the same claim?

 

[Mikeyfell]

Neither of these characters are "lead" characters. Jade from BGE is a lead, obviously Lara Croft, Bayonetta, Ecco the dolphin, Samus, etc... Those are leads. Ellie and Elizabeth are both supporting characters.

Dear No Right Answer:

Please learn what a "lead character" is.
Ellie and Elizabeth are both supporting rolls,

A leading character is one who the story centers around.

Interestingly enough, that's actually false.
A lead character is the one who's motivation is the catalyst for the why the plot is happening
The central focus of the story can be one or many characters in the main cast, but there is usually only one lead character per plot thread)

It doesn't matter if you play them or not. They are still focal points of the story and therefore are by all accounts lead roles. In fact for Bioshock the story is more Elizabeth's then Booker's. Player Character =/= Lead Character. Don't get on the No Right Answer guy's backs when you guys don't understand the definitions yourself.

I never mentioned gamelpay or player characters,
(The chapter where I said Ellie became the lead is not the chapter where you play as her, it's The Dam, that's when her motivation takes the lead over Joel's. Then in the Firefly base Joel's motivation takes back over)

Their participation in the plot is either passive or forced upon them.

Please explain how either Ellie or Elizabeth are "passive" characters.

Not passive characters. Passive participants in the plot.
Elizabeth is just living in her tower. She goes with Booker because she's afraid of Songbird, not because she wants to help Booker wipe away his debt. In fact she's anti-plot most of the game. She hits Booker with a wrench, she dances on the pier, she runs away, she surrenders to Songbird. It's not until after the future arc that she's willing to participate in the plot.
Granted the game would be much less interesting if she had just flown to New York as soon as they got on the Airship.
She's not a bad character, she's just against the grain of the plot. She's unwilling to drive it forward.



The only reason is in the plot at all is because she's immune. She didn't choose to be immune. She's basically a plot device. She could have been a big syringe labeled "Cure" and the plot would have been the same up until The Dam chapter.
I'm glad she wasn't. She's one of my favorite characters of all time, but up until the mid way point of the game she is a supporting character

I remember Elizabeth being an instigator for at least 50% of the story. Heck, Booker is more of a passive character then Elizabeth half the time. He just goes somewhere because he is told to, that is not an active agent, that is a passive agent.

Well, Elizabeth just goes somewhere because Booker went somewhere?
So she's passively following a passive agent?
Bioshock Infinite's plot is convoluted, You could work under the assumption that the Luteces are the leads because they have a hand in everything that's going on. But the fact is none of it would have started if Booker didn't need his debt wiped away.

Being a "support" in the game mechanics does not mean they are a "support" story characters seeing as how these are used in completely different senses. Also how the character comes to action is in no way a determining factor of them being a lead or not. That would mean that Harry Potter is only a lead character half the time, since most of the time things just happen around him. Being forced into a situation doesn't take away being a lead. Being passive in a situation does not mean they are not a lead. Having the story focused around you means you are a lead. Ellie and Elizabeth fit that description.

Protagonist =/= lead
I think that's the miscommunication here.

It's like when the Greeks used to write stories about "fate" Where prophecy was leading the plot and the characters were just reacting to it.
The lead is a different thing than the main character. If the origin of the plot can be traced back to one event it's the characters in charge of that event that are the lead.

Now that I think about it Joel was just passive until Tess dies, so Ellie might have the lead for the majority of the story. (But not at the beginning, the plot still wouldn't have started if left to her druthers) But Elizabeth never has the lead. Even at the end it's Booker's self destructive nature that's driving him forward.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Btw, everytime someone refers to women as "females", I want to punch you. We ain't dogs.

It's used to avoid the issue with age. You call a young female a girl and an adult female a woman. Putting both under the term 'female' makes things easier.

 

[wildpeaks]

The violence is The Last of Us might be more realistic, but Bioshock is more prevalent, gory, and even runs counter to the narrative.

I guess my brain must have censored that one because the skyhokk stomp is indeed my favorite attack (and I wish there were more maps you can use it, like was hinted in the E3 trailers originally), yet I have no memory of it being gory ? Please tell me I didn't play a censored version, I'd be pissed....

Couldn't tell you. Do any of these look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXX8rkCb_Mo

What I do know is the violence was so heavy that my wife couldn't connect with the character and didn't even want to play the game. She liked the original Bioshock, but hated Booker.

Ah yes, almost all are non-dismembering and my programmer brain remembers it as non-gory because of that. At least I'm glad I didn't play a different version

 

[PapstJL4U]

Umm...where are April Ryan or Zoë Castillo from the Longest Journey franchise? You want increidble lead character arcs, fully realized characterizaction, and even put in a dash of feminity into the plot? You can't go wrong there.

:> I 2nd this, but Point&Click is out of the ring, because they win every time.


captcha: move over! yeah really! April and Zoë are coming, so move over!

 

[yeah_so_no]

This was actually the first No Right Answer I turned off before it finished. I usually enjoy them, but this one was just...ugh.

I find it VERY interesting that the "leads" were basically glorified NPCs (yeah, fine, you play as Ellie for part of The Last of Us. Big whoop - most of it, you're NOT her). So a female lead is a female character who follows the male character around (because let's be real - that's what an NPC 'lead' does - follow the character you control - and therefore has agency - around). OK. Really, this says a lot about how female characters are viewed, and it's not saying very good things.

Also, really not impressed with the random swipe at Sarkeesian. That was childish, y'all. Do better.

 

[Mara Kalat]

*came in to whine about the characters not being leads and Jade from BG&E totally deserving this instead*

*sees tons of people doing this already*

Good job Escapist ^_^

 

[Deadagent]

Seeing alot of people saying Chell or Femshep.The thing about both of these is that they're player avatars, not actual characters.

The whole idea of Mass Effect is that whole personality of Shepard is up to the player, therefore she is not a predefined character anymore, than that character you made in any elder scrolls game, or later fallout game, or saints row character.

As for Chell, she has about as much personality as Gordon Freeman does, aka none. And that's the whole idea, to make her more relatable to the player. Same idea applies to Femshep but Femshep actually talks.

As for the video.... the title is misleading, but other than that a good episode. Bonus points for being the only show on the escapist to not suck up to Anita Sarkeesian.