No, you don't date rape/gay erase a character in Fire Emblem Fates

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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WARNING: UNSPOILED STATEMENTS ABOUT A CERTAIN SUPPORT! WHILE NO DIRECT SPOILER ABOUT THE STORY IS LISTED, BE FOREWARNED ABOUT SUPPORT SPOILERS!

I'm getting on the damage control early since this latest rumor about the game has spread to other gaming forums. As you can guess, Fire Emblem Fates has had a bit of a misinformation problem as things get translated from Japanese to English. Reports saying that rape, stripping, fornification, sexual assault, nudity, or gore porn have been popping up every few hours since release. These rumors are then swatted down by a bunch of people and confirmed in game to be untrue.

The latest rumor involves the support conversation between the main character Kamui as a male (Kamui is the Avatar in the game and his/her gender is determined at the start) and the female known as Soleil. According to the rumor and the unofficial 4chan pastebin translation, Male Kamui drugs Soleil with a magic powder that causes her to fall in love with him. This is worsened by the fact that she is bisexual in-game (though she can't marry women because...look, this game DOES have legitimate problems but I'll go over that in another thread, this thread is for squashing a rumor). So, in a series of supports, you have a male use drugs to turn a gay woman straight. This...sound very problematic. Here comes the problem.

...We have absolutely no idea if its true. Our main source is a 4chan who used Google freaking translate to get it. These same supports have been cause of other misinterpretations of the game so we have already established them as unreliable. I have multiple conflicting reports telling me that this translation is accurate or not but the more reliable ones have said that it isn't accurate. From what I can gather, there is no direct intention of date rape or gay erasure in the support. There MAY, however, and this is more complicated, be implied date rape and gay erasure.

The actually support goes like this. Soleil has a problem when she sees pretty girls. She faints. This normally isn't too problematic except this happens on the battlefield. She goes to M!Kamui for help on this matter. M!Kamui gives Soleil a magic potion that, in her eyes, reverses the genders. This somehow works (look, if the controversy was on how idiotic this support is, I'd get it. Supports quality range from great to wtf were you smoking, ok?). Also, Soleil somehow falls in love with M!Kamui (Again, quality not the point here). Given the Soleil is both mechanically and narratively more inclined to like girls over boys (though she is bisexual), many people are seeing this conversation as subtly implying gay erasure. I'm...not to sure about that honestly.

On one hand, if you want to include the fact that this game seems to want more gay/lesbian/bisexual relationships than it actually has (Carmilla has a liking for strong girls, Soleil has an in-game ability called GIRL'S LOVE, etc.) then you could argue that the fact that no same sex marriage is included at all for these characters counts as gay erasure. That support would just be another nail in the coffin. On the other hand, the gay/lesbian romance supports are perhaps some of the better supports in the entire game and there seems to have been extra care for all the supports that lead to an A+ rating so I can't shake the feeling that something happened between then and now. Plus, I'm still getting most of my info from a 4chan user using Google Translate and have multiple "official" translators flat say it's fake so who knows?

In any case, there is, at the very least, no direct attempt at date rape or gay erasure in Fire Emblem Fates. It's all ANOTHER rumor. I swear, I need to make a thread on what Fire Emblem Fates ACTUALLY has fanservice wise because this blowing out of proportion.
 

Kingjackl

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Nov 18, 2009
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That...still reads pretty dodgy, to be honest. If nothing else, the starting premise is stupid. The idea that the character's big issue is that she's so girl-crazy she can't focus on the battlefield reads like one of those bizarre leaps of logic used to keep women and gay men out of the military - "oh no, we can't have all these tramps running around, they'll distract our boys from their duty!"
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Kingjackl said:
That...still reads pretty dodgy, to be honest. If nothing else, the starting premise is stupid. The idea that the character's big issue is that she's so girl-crazy she can't focus on the battlefield reads like one of those bizarre leaps of logic used to keep women and gay men out of the military - "oh no, we can't have all these tramps running around, they'll distract our boys from their duty!"
Ya it's still rather dodgy. I mean there is that magic potion that makes you straight and it's a good thing? Then some places I looked at said that your character slips it in their drink without knowing, so you know not good either. I wonder if it's just a case of japan being weird or something.

The funny part is you can't date them with the female character.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Kingjackl said:
That...still reads pretty dodgy, to be honest. If nothing else, the starting premise is stupid. The idea that the character's big issue is that she's so girl-crazy she can't focus on the battlefield reads like one of those bizarre leaps of logic used to keep women and gay men out of the military - "oh no, we can't have all these tramps running around, they'll distract our boys from their duty!"
nomotog said:
Kingjackl said:
That...still reads pretty dodgy, to be honest. If nothing else, the starting premise is stupid. The idea that the character's big issue is that she's so girl-crazy she can't focus on the battlefield reads like one of those bizarre leaps of logic used to keep women and gay men out of the military - "oh no, we can't have all these tramps running around, they'll distract our boys from their duty!"
Ya it's still rather dodgy. I mean there is that magic potion that makes you straight and it's a good thing? Then some places I looked at said that your character slips it in their drink without knowing, so you know not good either. I wonder if it's just a case of japan being weird or something.

The funny part is you can't date them with the female character.
Johnny Novgorod said:
Still sounds pretty fucked up to me.
The biggest problem that the main source of this rumor is that it comes from a 4chan user using Google Translate. I can't accept that as a source. Also, the magic potion didn't make her straight. The magic potion seems to either reverse what the person's sex actually is or it gives her more confidence. Again, the consequences of using such an idiotic source for "proof".

Now, is this support stupid beyond belief? Yes. But that's not a trait unique to this game. There's another where a couple decides to get married because they keep falling into pits.
 

SquallTheBlade

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May 25, 2011
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That sounds hilariously funny. People get upset over this? I kind of wish the rumor is true so I can get few laughs when I play the game.
 

SecondPrize

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Again, highlighting the fact that the potion is used as a cure for the 'fainting on the battlefield' issue and that the game in no way suggests that it is the digging chicks itself which is in any way a problem.
 

KenAri

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Jan 13, 2013
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It seems like a completely harmless little (albeit stupid) sideplot that just happened to launch at a bad time in the industry, where everyone super over-sensitive to moral rightness and shit like that.

Given that Awakening raised a lot of attention for the FE series in the West, I'm predicting that this sideplot will be edited/removed, if IS follows the current Western 'culture' at all. They're not the sort of studio to pull deliberately controversial things, from my understanding.
 

Scarim Coral

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Oct 29, 2010
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The support sound kinda "iffy" at best but I won't hold my breath if this is an accurate rendition of the support conversation. I would give it more time for a better translation.

If the support itself turn out to be true then I have to ask, did it look well readed like Kamui (isn't it Kanni?) intentionally drugged her with ulterior motive or was it unintentional which it was an unexpected reaction from Soleil to Kamui?

Also for Kamui to be the son of the Avatar, that is a pretty stupid idea. Ok Soleil would faint when seeing a pretty girl in the batterfield, ok so is there no handsome male enemies either? Yes some of the enemies npc tend to be ugly but there has been a couple of handsome/ beatiful enemies aswell!
 

StormShaun

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Feb 1, 2009
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Eh, if you ask me, I'm not going to judge until I get the game myself.
If this event happens, I'm sure the internet will be all over it ... Well, providing if we get it uncensored/unchanged, which I doubt unfortunately.

For some reason though, I have a horrible feeling that some people are going to blow their load and rage against this, no matter what. Maybe even enough to get NA Nintendo to react ... Which I really hope will not happen. In fact, I already see people muttering "creepy" and such. Quite sad really.

If I've learnt anything, people on the internet judge way too quickly, and only by the cover.
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
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Johnny Novgorod said:
Still sounds pretty fucked up to me.
Yeah, I don't think arguing the fine points makes much difference here. That said, even if it's innocent of gay erasure, it's guilty of poor writing.

But I have a pretty strong stance of not caring until I can actually buy the game and judge for myself. So this is a non-issue until then.
 

Tilly

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Th3Ch33s3Cak3 said:
IMO:

Path of Radiance>Fire Emblem>>>Awakening=The Sacred Stones>>>>>Shadow Dragon>>>Manure>>>>>Radiant Dawn
Hmmmm, interesting. I only played about 20 mins of Path of Radiance. Didn't persevere because it seemed inferior to the others (especially the GBA namesake and Awakening). Should I try again then?
 

Oroboros

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Feb 21, 2011
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That sounds just as messed up to me after you explained the details, IMO.

I would hope it's just a translation error that makes it come across as so messed up, but honestly there's been a *lot* of stuff revealed about the new Fire Emblem so far that seem bizarre or messed up-particularly in regards to character sexuality.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Oroboros said:
That sounds just as messed up to me after you explained the details, IMO.

I would hope it's just a translation error that makes it come across as so messed up, but honestly there's been a *lot* of stuff revealed about the new Fire Emblem so far that seem bizarre or messed up-particularly in regards to character sexuality.
I am kind of wondering if it would end up the same after localization and if people will complain.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Nov 19, 2009
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"4Chan"

And that should have shot any chance of taking it seriously. I know some people have datamined the games in order to scrounge up the support convos, but there are a LOT Of them and because the game isn't quite a week old yet there's gonna be TONS of misinformation and rumor because that's the sad nature of the net.

And the funny thing is this even if it is true: it's not going to matter. No one is actually going to seriously care and go on about the issues of homosexuality, sexual discovery, date rape, etc, because this isn't that, it's just a way for bored, listless idiots to waste some time in the news wasteland that is the summer.

It's summer and people are bored, especially gaming websites which need something to talk about due to E3 sucking all the news out of the world, so they have to jump on a wonky support convo (that might not even be the real convo), blow it up, pretend they care about "sexual conversion" for five minutes and then go back to showering praise on homophobic, racist, sexist tripe and completely forgetting about Soleil. It's why I can't take journalists seriously when it comes to legitimate issues like homosexuality, sexism, racism, or sexual relationships in gaming; they're just way too selective in what they pick as a punching bag. And of course they do it to Nintendo with impunity because they know Iwata and the execs as a whole are too classy to do anything like pull advertising or not give review copies. There's no bravery in throwing punches at a guy they know won't fight back. Moving on
 

Mykal Stype

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That makes no damn sense. She faints when she sees girls on the battlefield, so they use a potion to switch genders in her mind. If this is like any other Fire Emblem game, most of the enemy soldiers are males. So if you switch them up in her head, all of a sudden the battlefield has switched from a sausage fest to a taco Tuesday. Wouldn't that mean she from then on is passed out almost all of the time? This has to be a mistranslation or just the stupidest thing ever.
 

SquallTheBlade

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Mykal Stype said:
That makes no damn sense. She faints when she sees girls on the battlefield, so they use a potion to switch genders in her mind. If this is like any other Fire Emblem game, most of the enemy soldiers are males. So if you switch them up in her head, all of a sudden the battlefield has switched from a sausage fest to a taco Tuesday. Wouldn't that mean she from then on is passed out almost all of the time? This has to be a mistranslation or just the stupidest thing ever.
Actually Kamui did this so he can make her feel comfortable around girls by making her stay close to him while she sees him as a girl. Here is some of the dialogue that explains it.

Soleil: ??. ? Y-You? who are you again?
Kamui: It's me. Kamui.
Soleil: E-Ehhhhhh!? B-But... those eyes. they could only belong to a girl!?
Kamui: Seems it was a great success.
Soleil: Success. uh? I have no clue what you're talking about...
Kamui: Right now you?re seeing me as a girl. Isn't that right?
Soleil: Y-Yes. Completely.
>Kamui: I managed to get my hands on a kind of magic powder? I'm really sorry, but a little while ago, I poured some of it into your drink. The person who drinks that powder... somehow becomes able to see other people as the gender opposite what they actually are!
Soleil: H-Huh!? So I can see you as a girl!!?
Kamui: Yes. After what you said, I wanted to resolve your concerns, so I thought it over a little. And it led me to a conclusion. Seeing me as a girl, you can use me to overcome your issues. From now on I?ll get closer to you until you can tolerate being around me without fainting.
Soleil: E-Ehhhh!? I-I'm glad you feel that way but? I have a very specific type... and besides, I mean, you're Kamui...
Kamui: Please move closer to me. Look deeeeep into my eyes.
Soleil: Huh!? W-What... this feeling, it's... kind of uncomfortable? but I?m also getting a little... excited... ... Hey, Kamui. Could you try saying my name...
Kamui: Soleil.
Soleil: ... C-Can you do it in a higher voice? F-For... realism's sake...
Kamui: ... Understood. Soleil.
Soleil: Ugh!
Kamui: Thank you for saving our city! You were so strong and cool!
Soleil: Hauu!
Kamui: How was that? I tried to be like that girl from the town...

Again, why are people getting so upset over this?
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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SquallTheBlade said:
Mykal Stype said:
That makes no damn sense. She faints when she sees girls on the battlefield, so they use a potion to switch genders in her mind. If this is like any other Fire Emblem game, most of the enemy soldiers are males. So if you switch them up in her head, all of a sudden the battlefield has switched from a sausage fest to a taco Tuesday. Wouldn't that mean she from then on is passed out almost all of the time? This has to be a mistranslation or just the stupidest thing ever.
Actually Kamui did this so he can make her feel comfortable around girls by making her stay close to him while she sees him as a girl. Here is some of the dialogue that explains it.

Soleil: ??. ? Y-You? who are you again?
Kamui: It's me. Kamui.
Soleil: E-Ehhhhhh!? B-But... those eyes. they could only belong to a girl!?
Kamui: Seems it was a great success.
Soleil: Success. uh? I have no clue what you're talking about...
Kamui: Right now you?re seeing me as a girl. Isn't that right?
Soleil: Y-Yes. Completely.
>Kamui: I managed to get my hands on a kind of magic powder? I'm really sorry, but a little while ago, I poured some of it into your drink. The person who drinks that powder... somehow becomes able to see other people as the gender opposite what they actually are!
Soleil: H-Huh!? So I can see you as a girl!!?
Kamui: Yes. After what you said, I wanted to resolve your concerns, so I thought it over a little. And it led me to a conclusion. Seeing me as a girl, you can use me to overcome your issues. From now on I?ll get closer to you until you can tolerate being around me without fainting.
Soleil: E-Ehhhh!? I-I'm glad you feel that way but? I have a very specific type... and besides, I mean, you're Kamui...
Kamui: Please move closer to me. Look deeeeep into my eyes.
Soleil: Huh!? W-What... this feeling, it's... kind of uncomfortable? but I?m also getting a little... excited... ... Hey, Kamui. Could you try saying my name...
Kamui: Soleil.
Soleil: ... C-Can you do it in a higher voice? F-For... realism's sake...
Kamui: ... Understood. Soleil.
Soleil: Ugh!
Kamui: Thank you for saving our city! You were so strong and cool!
Soleil: Hauu!
Kamui: How was that? I tried to be like that girl from the town...

Again, why are people getting so upset over this?
Because the people bringing it up are claiming the support is about "fixing" Soleil's attraction to women or that Kamui was essentially engaging in date rape by putting powder in her tea in order for the effect to happen. It's what the press likes to grasp onto to make themselves feel open or as critics of homophobia, misogyny, sexism, racism, etc...before then hyping titles that are rife with homophobia, misogyny, sexism, racism, xenophobia and forgetting about Soleil and her issues altogether. And that's before we get into how accurate this translation really is or whether or not it's just 4Chan fucking with people.
 

EternallyBored

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Jun 17, 2013
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Aiddon said:
SquallTheBlade said:
Mykal Stype said:
That makes no damn sense. She faints when she sees girls on the battlefield, so they use a potion to switch genders in her mind. If this is like any other Fire Emblem game, most of the enemy soldiers are males. So if you switch them up in her head, all of a sudden the battlefield has switched from a sausage fest to a taco Tuesday. Wouldn't that mean she from then on is passed out almost all of the time? This has to be a mistranslation or just the stupidest thing ever.
Actually Kamui did this so he can make her feel comfortable around girls by making her stay close to him while she sees him as a girl. Here is some of the dialogue that explains it.

Soleil: ??. ? Y-You? who are you again?
Kamui: It's me. Kamui.
Soleil: E-Ehhhhhh!? B-But... those eyes. they could only belong to a girl!?
Kamui: Seems it was a great success.
Soleil: Success. uh? I have no clue what you're talking about...
Kamui: Right now you?re seeing me as a girl. Isn't that right?
Soleil: Y-Yes. Completely.
>Kamui: I managed to get my hands on a kind of magic powder? I'm really sorry, but a little while ago, I poured some of it into your drink. The person who drinks that powder... somehow becomes able to see other people as the gender opposite what they actually are!
Soleil: H-Huh!? So I can see you as a girl!!?
Kamui: Yes. After what you said, I wanted to resolve your concerns, so I thought it over a little. And it led me to a conclusion. Seeing me as a girl, you can use me to overcome your issues. From now on I?ll get closer to you until you can tolerate being around me without fainting.
Soleil: E-Ehhhh!? I-I'm glad you feel that way but? I have a very specific type... and besides, I mean, you're Kamui...
Kamui: Please move closer to me. Look deeeeep into my eyes.
Soleil: Huh!? W-What... this feeling, it's... kind of uncomfortable? but I?m also getting a little... excited... ... Hey, Kamui. Could you try saying my name...
Kamui: Soleil.
Soleil: ... C-Can you do it in a higher voice? F-For... realism's sake...
Kamui: ... Understood. Soleil.
Soleil: Ugh!
Kamui: Thank you for saving our city! You were so strong and cool!
Soleil: Hauu!
Kamui: How was that? I tried to be like that girl from the town...

Again, why are people getting so upset over this?
Because the people bringing it up are claiming the support is about "fixing" Soleil's attraction to women or that Kamui was essentially engaging in date rape by putting powder in her tea in order for the effect to happen. It's what the press likes to grasp onto to make themselves feel open or as critics of homophobia, misogyny, sexism, racism, etc...before then hyping titles that are rife with homophobia, misogyny, sexism, racism, xenophobia and forgetting about Soleil and her issues altogether. And that's before we get into how accurate this translation really is or whether or not it's just 4Chan fucking with people.
What press are you talking about? The only places I've seen talking about it is this forum and 4chan itself when the translation was first posted, even the OP says that he's only seen it talked about on a couple forums, the press seems to be ignoring this entirely, as even the click baity websites usually know better than to blindly trust anything from 4chan.

I find it really silly that you seem to be slamming the media for jumping on non-stories to grab attention when the media seems to be completely silent on this front, unless random forum posters now count as the media. You seem to be doing the same thing you accuse the media of doing, jumping the gun to make a point about something without actually gathering all the facts or using context to get the whole story.
 

ZiggyE

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It's pretty fucking sad that sites like Destructoid and IBT are willing to source a fucking tumblr post by someone who has not even played the game in order to help spread a controversy that doesn't accurately reflect reality.

Fortunately, Fire Emblem fans have gone out of their way to explain the whole situation for people who haven't played the game.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Z46S9

There's no homophobia, it's nothing dodgy (unless certain anime cliches aren't to your palette). It's just the easily offended getting worked up about nothing yet again and game journalists trying to manufacturer a controversy through the yellow journalism they're so well known for.

GamesNosh wrote a good article about the whole thing http://gamesnosh.com/fire-emblem-homophobia-fates-is-hit-with-gay-controversy/