Population of Norway = 5 millionWoW Killer said:
Population of America = 315 million
More people = more crimes.
America's legal system is in shambles, but those numbers count for something.
Norway Massacre: Anders Breivik sentenced 21 years
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Population of America = 315 million
More people = more crimes.
America's legal system is in shambles, but those numbers count for something.
Guys, there's something you need to get straight here.
He's not sentenced to 21 years of jail, he's sentenced to 21 years of custody, meaning the sentence can -- and probably will -- be prolonged for as long as the legal system would like it to be.
This is in practice locking him in and throwing the key, it's just a technicality with the Norwegian juridical system that obviously makes headlines because people don't know how it works.
He's not sentenced to 21 years of jail, he's sentenced to 21 years of custody, meaning the sentence can -- and probably will -- be prolonged for as long as the legal system would like it to be.
This is in practice locking him in and throwing the key, it's just a technicality with the Norwegian juridical system that obviously makes headlines because people don't know how it works.
The fact that this was pointed out already at the fourth response makes me proud of the Escapist's community and how informed it is.Mr Cwtchy said:
Norway's legal system seems to work brilliantly in general, but I do think that sometimes there is no rehabilitating people, and this is one of those cases. I know that he won't ever get out in actuality, but his cell is a little too cushy.
I think the article may of left out an important part. Sure he's sentenced for 21 years, but he can be forced to stay longer if he's deemed still a danger to society.
Norway has a very different legal system, but they are not idiots.
Norway has a very different legal system, but they are not idiots.
Eh it's like comparing apples and oranges. The culture and mentallity of the United States is completely different from that of Norway. Not saying it's right, but you cant compare them.WoW Killer said:
O/T Considering the justice system of Norway, it will probably be 21 years +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 ad infinitum.
Edit* Not saying the US system is wrong, just saying (like everything in life) it can do with some tweaking.
Ha, I knew someone couldn't make this thread without someone twisting it around to be about how America is bad and full of crime and stupid Americans!
I thought I read somewhere a few months ago (local newspaper) that you've got that. Where in the thread was it? Didn't honestly see it.Halyah said:
But yeah in cases like this I think the way they in the USA can sentence someone for insanely long timeperiods would be a good solution.
I don't really care.
If he comes out in 21 years and he's rehabilitated then so be it.
If he comes out in 21 years and he's rehabilitated then so be it.
FelixG said:
Good news. It's probably the best solution, and 21 years most likely equals "forever" in practice. And if he ever does get released, I doubt he'd live very long outside the walls, or very comfortably.
Well, now with that out of the way, how about we begin to dismantle that last big elephant in the room? Namely WHY he did what he did and to what end.
There is a reason why a reasonably sane human being decide to commit these horrible crimes, be it political or personal. I believe this would be the time to attempt to find the true reason behind, and expose exactly what he was hoping to achieve.
Well, now with that out of the way, how about we begin to dismantle that last big elephant in the room? Namely WHY he did what he did and to what end.
There is a reason why a reasonably sane human being decide to commit these horrible crimes, be it political or personal. I believe this would be the time to attempt to find the true reason behind, and expose exactly what he was hoping to achieve.
No way is he spending 21 years in prison.
He's staying there, for the rest of his life. He killed to many people, and shows no remorse, no empathy, nothing. He's staying there.
He's staying there, for the rest of his life. He killed to many people, and shows no remorse, no empathy, nothing. He's staying there.
Well, when americans for some reason believe they are in a position to judge how we do things in Norway, (god forbid, right, that there is any subject ever where their opinion isn't valued or needed) it seems only fair to point out how beyond the pale fucked up that country is.GistoftheFist said:
Like I said in the other thread, as someone who lost friends that day, I am content with the sentence, and I am looking forward to moving on.
You mean you can't make this thread without hearing somebody calling for harsher sentencing, particularly the death penalty, with the voice of superiority. If I hadn't seen that I wouldn't have posted what I did. For the sake of our own nations, Norway's justice system should be viewed with respect, intrigue and possibly envy, not with ridicule and disbelief.GistoftheFist said:
Are you serious?FelixG said:
We can't simply change the laws to fit our situation. The max is 21 years, and no death penalty. If we start changing laws on a case-to-case basis, who knows where our judicial system will end up?
But yeah, they'll probably find good reason to keep him locked in for extended periods of time since he could still be considered a threat.
Summed up, I agree that he should be locked in as long as possible through the use of Norwegian law, but I do not condone taking actions that defeat the whole purpose of having a law. This is a western society in 2012, not the wild west or the grim middle ages.
But yeah, they'll probably find good reason to keep him locked in for extended periods of time since he could still be considered a threat.
Summed up, I agree that he should be locked in as long as possible through the use of Norwegian law, but I do not condone taking actions that defeat the whole purpose of having a law. This is a western society in 2012, not the wild west or the grim middle ages.
Can't honestly say that.Chairman Miaow said:
He hasn't even served 21 days of his sentance, never mind 21 years.
Look, he is brash, young, and stupid. But in two decades he won't be young. And he might not be brash OR stupid. He may be a completely different person by that time happens at which point yes, there is hope for rehabilitation.
Maybe he'll change, maybe he won't. I don't know the guy and there's no way for me to say if he will. I trust in the Norway system's judgement on this matter; after all their system seems to work very well!
Ultimately, it's up to him.
Setting aside the fact that the article explicitly states he could be held indefinitely for his crimes...
Justice is the fair application of the law to all. If the law is that the maximum sentence he will serve is 21 years, then it would be unjust to sentence him for longer.
Punishments cannot be dished out and changed as the public outcry sees fit, that's no way to maintain a justice system.
Justice is the fair application of the law to all. If the law is that the maximum sentence he will serve is 21 years, then it would be unjust to sentence him for longer.
Punishments cannot be dished out and changed as the public outcry sees fit, that's no way to maintain a justice system.