Notch: Windows 8 Could Be "Very Very Bad" for Indies

PingoBlack

Searching for common sense ...
Aug 6, 2011
322
0
0
TomWiley said:
I have no idea. Frankly, I just think it's tech-hysteria and journalistic sensationalism. The operating system hasn't bloody been released yet. It just went into RTM like yesterday. Can't we at least wait until we've tried it before we declare it the antichirst of gaming.
Are you seriously unaware that developers, especially those that licence DirectX from Microsoft, such as ... you know ... Valve or Blizzard, didn't get Windows 8 to test before us in general public?

Oh right, my bad, your cred > any mayor developer cred when it comes to statements about Win8.
(Apologies, but I just couldn't resist the opportunity. :p)
 

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
671
0
21
xXSnowyXx said:
Does everybody have to bash Windows 8 without actually using it? It hasn't lost anything that Windows 7 had except for the start menu being replaced (by a better start menu). Sure it has an app store/android market analogue but that's all it is...it doesn't have any significant programs on there (just apps and widgets for the Metro UI). It isn't going to bring down Steam or indie publishers.
I've used it and Notch, Blizzard, and Valve all have had the chance to use it.

It flat out sucks as a Desktop OS. It's designed for Touch Screen Tables and may work there, but not on my desktop.

This is a design Disaster. They even thought that putting the Menu in Developer Studio in ALL CAPS was a good "design" but developers use CamelCase to communicate what the menu item actually does when words are run together.

Metro UI sucks because it forces far too many applications into full screen mode. As a developer I typically have a dozen or so apps running. If my Email client insists on being FULL SCREEN when ever it is open I cant multitask.

The Start Menu is being replaced because over the last 4 versions of windows they have made the Start Menu unusable by normal people. They end up just pinning all their apps to the task bar and launch that way completely bypassing the start menu. Even advanced users don't use it and instead opt for the quick search option before trying to navigate the squashed in unreadable start menu. And all that was done because some users complained that the old start menu was taking up the entire screen. They've been on the clear path of making the system unusable, and have just finally reached the tipping point.
 

kasperbbs

New member
Dec 27, 2009
1,855
0
0
Seems legit, i'll wait till the day when microsoft releases windows 8 and it doesn't let you install steam, then i'll join the panic, now it's just silly.
 

Paladin2905

New member
Sep 1, 2011
137
0
0
medv4380 said:
xXSnowyXx said:
Does everybody have to bash Windows 8 without actually using it? It hasn't lost anything that Windows 7 had except for the start menu being replaced (by a better start menu). Sure it has an app store/android market analogue but that's all it is...it doesn't have any significant programs on there (just apps and widgets for the Metro UI). It isn't going to bring down Steam or indie publishers.
I've used it and Notch, Blizzard, and Valve all have had the chance to use it.

It flat out sucks as a Desktop OS. It's designed for Touch Screen Tables and may work there, but not on my desktop.

This is a design Disaster. They even thought that putting the Menu in Developer Studio in ALL CAPS was a good "design" but developers use CamelCase to communicate what the menu item actually does when words are run together.

Metro UI sucks because it forces far too many applications into full screen mode. As a developer I typically have a dozen or so apps running. If my Email client insists on being FULL SCREEN when ever it is open I cant multitask.

The Start Menu is being replaced because over the last 4 versions of windows they have made the Start Menu unusable by normal people. They end up just pinning all their apps to the task bar and launch that way completely bypassing the start menu. Even advanced users don't use it and instead opt for the quick search option before trying to navigate the squashed in unreadable start menu. And all that was done because some users complained that the old start menu was taking up the entire screen. They've been on the clear path of making the system unusable, and have just finally reached the tipping point.
And here I was thinking that the start menu had undergone a good revision with the release of Win7 (The whole search; and the the programs menu being nested into the bottom left.)

Anyways can people really be surprised about this? At all? I believe that it is a well-demonstrated behavior that Windows releases are like Star Trek movies, every other one is *good*.
 

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
671
0
21
Paladin2905 said:
And here I was thinking that the start menu had undergone a good revision with the release of Win7 (The whole search; and the the programs menu being nested into the bottom left.)

Anyways can people really be surprised about this? At all? I believe that it is a well-demonstrated behavior that Windows releases are like Star Trek movies, every other one is *good*.
Not surprised, but that didn't make me any less angry when WinMe, and Vista whet crazy with "design" over function. Win7 is at least usable as you said, but their Usability study that justified axing the start menu doesn't count people like you and me. The Search Option in the start menu is the only thing that allows it to work quickly, and for me it just replaced my prior method of using the Run dialog to launch by application name.

As a side note
Left4Dead2 on Linux with OpenGL is beating out Windows with DirectX.
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

New member
Aug 22, 2010
2,577
0
0
You know aside from the baffling lack of a Start Menu, I really don't see why anyone would jizz OR shit their pants over Windows 8. The desktop still works, the Metro UI is kind of obnoxious but easy to get rid of....by activating the desktop. I was able to install on it pretty much anything I cared to try that was Win7 compatible.

I might get a basic version to chuck on a test bed machine, keep myself ahead of the curve and all that but I'm not seeing a reason to replace Win7 Ultimate 64bit just yet.
 

oktalist

New member
Feb 16, 2009
1,603
0
0
Mr.Tea said:
This "widely believed" bullshit is the same thing that sunk Vista and is not helped when people who don't know better only hear incorrect information through ancillary news stories such as this one.
I had Vista installed for a year. It was a broken OS.

Two-A said:
(there's always Linux, but coding for that OS is pretty darn complicated)
I think it's easier.

Imper1um said:
Windows 3.1 was a great step up.
The various versions in between were really crap.
Windows 95 was good.
Windows NT 4.0 sucked because they borked moving from FAT32 easily, and it was made only for server owners.
Windows 98 was a nice step up, but just really a large update to 95.
Windows ME was the worst piece of shit in the world.
Windows XP was a surprisingly amazing upgrade.
Windows Vista was the 2nd worst launch in the world, and they dropped it as soon as...
Windows 7 was the most surprising install ever, which worked amazing.

So, naturally, Windows 8 will be the worst ever. They will figure out what went wrong, then Windows 9 will be awesome.
You forgot 2K.

Windows is the Call of Duty of operating systems.

BiH-Kira said:
MS making the Windows a closed platform like Apple does is actually a real possibility.
Closing the PC games marked, or at least lowering it would (theoretically) increase the console market and we all know that MS wants that. More xbox user, more XBL subscribers.
It wouldn't make sense to threaten their desktop and enterprise business (84% of their profits) while attempting to grow their games and online business (16% of their profits).
 

grumpymooselion

New member
May 5, 2011
66
0
0
I could care less about Notch, but everything I've seen from Windows 8 personally has looked like a disaster waiting to happen, one so vast that it makes Windows ME look like a good idea by comparison . . . and Windows ME was the worst sort of rubbish.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
6,157
0
0
lapan said:
Moonlight Butterfly said:
Well I suppose we all could just not upgrade...

maybe.

It doesn't look good if these notable devs are worried about it.
Worked with Vista. XPs cycle was extremly long since people just refused to upgrade.
That's pretty much what I was thinking of. I never used Vista went from XP to 7.
 

evilneko

Waster of Time
Jun 16, 2011
2,194
25
53
Treblaine said:
evilneko said:
It's very much ado about nothing.

No one is forced into the Windows Store.
Except Microsoft wants it like App Store where EVERYTHING goes through the store. It's already been confirmed many version this windows store is the ONLY way to install any program.

So if you find a game on a website (like minecraft) or buy a disc then you CANNOT install it, you have to see if it is on Microsoft's store, go through their shitty network (and it has never not been shitty), pay THEM money and ONLY if they allow the program to go through. It's a fecking iPad t=with none of the lightness or portability.

No more steam sales. No more free programs. No more indy developers. No more micro-transactions.
Okay, there's some truth in this for phones and the upcoming tablet, but this will not affect desktop PCs.
 
Mar 25, 2010
130
0
0
walrusaurus said:
Torrasque said:
Wait. There could be a day in the foreseeable future, when Apple OS is preferred over Windows OS?! Wow, that'll be the day.
MIscrosoft: taking apples ideas and making them shittier since 1985!

In all seriousness though; Apples OS has been better from an end-user-experience standpoint, and a technical one since the end of the XP era. The only reason why it isn't more popular than it is, is because of the price and lack of third party software support. Thats why i have a PC now instead of a mac. If windows 8 kills Microsoft software advantage the way everyone is saying it will, then i will jump at the opportunity to switch back to a mac.
I think this new guy is a troll, I mean, come on. He's flat out ignoring you.
 

Thaius

New member
Mar 5, 2008
3,862
0
0
If Windows 8 inspires developers to move to Mac (say what you will, but it's not nearly this restricted), I will laugh. And dance.
 

Treblaine

New member
Jul 25, 2008
8,682
0
0
DeltasDix said:
Todd Howard hasn't been a PC heavy weight since morrowind.
Well who else would you consider PC gaming heavyweights?

Would you include John Carmack?

The problem is even Valve and Mojang have to play the console game, Minecraft and every Valve game getting console releases even if inferior versions.
 

thesilentman

What this
Jun 14, 2012
4,513
0
0
DeltasDix said:
Jack and Calumon said:
Fuck, does anyone not from Microsoft like this thing? Blizzard, Gabe, Notch all hate it. That's most of PC gamings heavyweights (No joke intended Gabe). If Todd Howard pops out his head now and calls it shit, then who's left? God, Microsoft, think you might be fucking up with this thing, do you? Because everyone else seems to think so!

Calumon: ...I have no idea what people are talking about, but it all sounds like silly people are being silly and they're being told that they are silly, but they're still being silly anyway because they're silly.
Since when was Todd Howard a PC gaming heavyweight?
TES started with Arena on DOS. They've been PC oriented until Oblivion.
 

geizr

New member
Oct 9, 2008
850
0
0
Okay, I've been hearing all this screamage (yes, I just made that word up) that Windows 8 is going to kill gaming overnight. However, what I've never heard is exactly what combination of technologies and policies cause it to inhibit game developers from creating, marketing, selling, and distributing games on the platform. I need something more than just "It's the Metro Store that does it". Exactly how will it prevent them from doing so? Exactly how will it put them at a disadvantage? Exactly what is the process by which Windows 8 will kill gaming? Is this a real phenomenon, or is it just, yet again, a bunch of unfounded knee-jerk reaction from a few individuals who have proclaimed themselves gods of the universe who can manifest unambiguous, universal truth and reality by mere divine utterance? I'm asking this as a serious question because I keep hearing people get all upset without really explaining their position on the matter. Please, enlighten me, cause I seriously want to know.

EDIT: minor edit for emphasis.
 

thesilentman

What this
Jun 14, 2012
4,513
0
0
geizr said:
Okay, I've been hearing all this screamage (yes, I just made that word up) that Windows 8 is going to kill gaming overnight. However, what I've never heard is exactly what combination of technologies and policies cause it to inhibit game developers from creating, marketing, selling, and distributing games on the platform. I need something more than just "It's the Metro Store that does it". Exactly how will it prevent them from doing so? Exactly how will it put them at a disadvantage? Exactly what is the process by which Windows 8 will kill gaming? Is this a real phenomenon, or is it just, yet again, a bunch of knee-jerk reaction from a few individuals who have proclaimed themselves gods of the universe who can manifest unambiguous, universal truth and reality by mere divine utterance? I'm asking this as a serious question because I keep hearing people get all upset without really explaining their position on the matter. Please, enlighten me, cause I seriously want to know.
The Windows Store. Basically Money$oft is shoehorning an idea from Apple on a desktop interface. Closing desktops for selling products is an App Store waiting to happen. The reason that gamers are getting pissed as Valve is the Messiah! No seriously. Steam could be challenged as a monopoly, and Steam itself could disappear from Win8.

Everyone, move to Linux! The games are faster!

captcha-lost love

Um, this is Money$oft we're talking about here...