NYCC 2010: Visceral Wants To Make Dante's Purgatory

[Jaebird]

I'm probably in the minority of people who liked the game for what it is, and I for one would like to see it continue.

Spoilers, for those who haven't beaten the game, nor watch the animated film:

Spoiler

After defeating Lucifer, Dante emerges into Purgatory. Following this, he walks out of a cave to the view of Mount Purgatory. After which, he tears off the now burned tabard he sewn to his chest and tosses it aside. The camera follows the cloth as it drifts to the ground, turns into a snake and slithers off. Maniacal laughter is then heard.

Here is what I would like to see happen, since it is already difficult to come up with a plot for more games. Following the ending of the aforementioned spoiler, something terrible can happen on Mount Purgatory, and the blame will fall on Dante. And, since Purgatory is about redemption for some souls, the powers that be will charge Dante to fix the problem. Said problem can then extend all the way toward Heaven itself, at the risk of copying all of God of War (cliffhanger ending in 2, then 3 starts from there), but hopefully differentiates from it.

I'm sure someone will pick apart this plot-line I just made up on the spot and tell me how wrong I am, but I won't fret over it.

See, I actually am reading The Divine Comedy (not as much, though), and I like the stupefied story in the game. I mean, the book is great for it's depictions of Hell, but it's mostly the writer's political and religious soapbox, which bogs the story down, in my opinion.

Read to the end, the start comes off as a bit rude sorry:
Do you know why the story ?is bogged down with all these ?soapbox? politics, as you describe it, and is still read today. It is because that is whole point. The story gives not only an interesting perspective on hell (and that is great) but also adds a context. Dante had big enough balls to place kings and popes (who during his life were still alive) in hell. It gives the story context and even differences in opinion from today. For example, the Roman biased view placed Odysseus in hell now that is interesting. Everyone today see this character as the good guy. However, back then, because of the destruction of Troy (the spiritual predecessor of Rome) he is demonized in Dante?s lifetime. Still, I can understand why you say this. Some of the characters are so insignificant you wish Dante just passed them over. I just want to say that the book would not be nearly as well read without the politics. Anyway, it is great that your reading (or read?) the book. The best part is that you have your own opinion on the subject. I slightly disagree with it, as stated above, but different opinions are very important in society.

Also, your story sounds a little like Darksiders. Details, however, are all important to a story, so I need more than this to give a fair judgment. Keep at it.

On the subject of the Divine Comedy, the reason why it felt bogged down (especially the latter half of Inferno), to me, is that I would occasionally look to the references in the back of the book in order to understand what I read. I mean, I'm no historical scholar, so this book isn't clearly meant for someone like me. But if a clone of God of War with a "save the princess" plot can inspire me to pick it up, that says something. And one more thing to mention is that, while I never anticipated the immense amount of "cameos", what intrigued me the most, outside of the Hellish depictions, was that Dante felt he lost his way in the story. Which pretty much was the plot for me.

On the subject of the instant-plot, I now see the similarity to Darksiders. And with that, I can further write in detail what a Dante's Purgatory can be. Say Dante is the blame for allowing Lucifer to escape. I can imagine the story being paced in a way that Dante could see Lucifer's influence take over the mountain as he progresses. Maybe it can be, not so much a sub-plot, but something that's still there for motive. The custodians of the mountain don't want to cause a panic, so Dante has to try to be discrete. I don't think an all-out war would suffice here, when it would make more sense to happen in Paradise. I can definitely believe that as Dante goes up Purgatory, he would have to perform many tasks in accordance to which sin he committed.

And I wish someone would give you a medal, for being as polite as you were in your counter-argument. Seriously, that's pretty rare on this site.

 

[eels05]

Hahahah OH YEAH!
Please make it just to inflame all those indignant literary snobs again who shat all over the first effort.
I guess I was one of that handfull of people who actually liked it enough to want Purgatory.

 

[Formica Archonis]

Read to the end, the start comes off as a bit rude sorry:
Do you know why the story "is bogged down with all these "soapbox" politics, as you describe it, and is still read today. It is because that is whole point. The story gives not only an interesting perspective on hell (and that is great) but also adds a context. Dante had big enough balls to place kings and popes (who during his life were still alive) in hell. It gives the story context and even differences in opinion from today.

*Clap clap*. An excellent way of putting it. The funny thing is that part of the reason he got away with it was because he wrote it in Italian. When he wrote some similar concepts in Latin, the Church banned it. Not that the Church and Dante were on good terms to begin with....

I was amazed to find that the man who wrote the book that built the modern image of Hell actually fought in battles, wanted something resembling separation of church and state, and had the death penalty on his head in his home town for over seven hundred years. (Though he was only alive for the first 20 years of it.)

Still, I can understand why you say this. Some of the characters are so insignificant you wish Dante just passed them over.

Yeah, but they show the more temporal aspects of things. A number of the "insignificant" ones were figures in Dante's life. Enemies, friends of enemies, enemies of friends, Ghibellines and Black Guelphs.

The only problem is that purgatory is structured almost exactly like inferno. This basically forces the designers to clone the first game's structure.

So get the guys from EA Sports. They're used to doing the same game over and over. (Rimshot.)

Don't you love it when gamers whine about games they have never bothered to play based on reviews alone?

Yeah! It's like all those people who think Twilight is stupid without having read all the books!

C'mon. If I don't being punched in the face I don't need to experience being kicked in the face to know I won't like it.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Well, they managed to completely miss the point of Inferno, and he promises to create a plot for Purgatorio and Paradiso, so I can't wait to see how the crusader Dante manages to ram Death's scythe up God's nose, or how much more like God of War this is going to become. And the moment the Seraphim of related Christian cannon come into it, and get corrupted, the moment I sit back, say "aha!", and go on my merry way.

 

[Weaver]

PLEASE!!!!!!! QUIT RAPING DANTE ALIGHIERI! PLLEEEEEEHEHEHEHEEEEZ!!!!!

These people are officially WORSE than George Lucas!

I also find it a pleasant co-incidence that the name Dante is also the main character's name of the Devil May Cry series as the games are very similar.

that because Capcom took the names of Dante,Virgil from the Divine comedy

I know, hence why it's a "pleasant coincidence".

 

[Elementlmage]

PLEASE!!!!!!! QUIT RAPING DANTE ALIGHIERI! PLLEEEEEEHEHEHEHEEEEZ!!!!!

These people are officially WORSE than George Lucas!

Don't you love it when gamers whine about games they have never bothered to play based on reviews alone?

People enjoyed it, these people payed for the game.
If other people enjoy a game that you didn't want to play, that affects you in no way at all.

Wrong, if effects all rational beings who wish to see great works of art and literature treated with respect and dignity. I would have no issues with the game if they called it something else, or at least tried to preserve the source material in some practicable manner.

 

[Xanadu84]

Purgatory!? Have these people even read the divine comedy? Purgatory is easily the most boring book out of all of them.

Woah, woah, lets not get crazy...

Paradise...did you read paradise? Dante looks at light, says he loves God. Moves a little, sees more lights, says how great God is. The closest thing to a plot is him worrying that later on, he might be arrogant for being shown Heaven. But he can't do that in heaven...oh no...because by definition, if you define plot as a conflict, then heaven can't have a plot. At least purgatory has levels with "bad" guys who have been tortured, and a sense of needing to overcome an obstacle. And there is some interesting punishments. But paradise would be like an episode of Barney, except replace all the characters and actors with dots of light, and even more sacchrine.

Of course there can be plot without conflict. Just not the kind of plot that would make a hack 'n slash video game.

Still, they'll probably make you defend Heaven from the hordes of the now free Lucifer.

No, you can't really have plot without conflict. You can have it without FIGHTING or VIOLENCE easily enough, but generally, there has to be some kind is issue that needs to be faced. By definition, Paradise can't have that, or else its not paradise.

That is probably the best guess about what their interpretation of Paradiso would be. And like Inferno, it's not that it's a BAD story idea, it just shouldn't be pegged as a video game translation of the poem.

 

[G-X]

A God of War clone where you kill swarms of unbaptized babies? That sounds okay, but I can't see how they could make Paradise work. Unless you murder Jesus over and over again, but he keeps coming back to life the next Sunday. Yeah, no, that would work.

 

[Delock]

PLEASE!!!!!!! QUIT RAPING DANTE ALIGHIERI! PLLEEEEEEHEHEHEHEEEEZ!!!!!

These people are officially WORSE than George Lucas!

Because Poe, Lovecraft, Machiavelli, John Milton, Steven King, Nietzche, and host of others haven't gotten the same treatment. Hell, Dante gets off easy compared to a few of these guys (Machiavelli in particular has his most famous line of fear vs. respect to be butchered so often his grave is empty as he's spun so fast he was able to exit orbit). Besides, the Inferno itself (and sometimes the Divine Comedy) has been everywhere so often, it's practically whoring itself out.

At least Visceral is trying to present the world Dante described as close to the original as possible, with some creative freedom here and there, unlike Lucas who just keeps bleeding the franchise, ignoring the good that comes from it (the original Clone Wars series, Republic Commando, KoTOR, etc.). Sure they're not going for accuracy, but once again that would make for a horrible game of being lead around by the hand the entire time. Their version as well had a nice little bit of thought put into it that a lot of people ignore because "WAAAH! IT'S NOT A SELF-INSERTION FANFICTION OF A POET DOING POLITICAL COMMENTARY AND REVENGE WHILST BEING LEAD AROUND HELL BY THE HAND OF SOMEONE HE RESPECTED TOO MUCH! WAH!"

Spoiler

It also involves gameplay as well. During your descent, you, the player, mindlessly chop down chains that stand in your way, never caring about the consequences despite the fact that occasionally laughter is heard when you do so. Both Dante and the player really don't care about this, which is a nice bit of gameplay and story going hand and hand, as the player and Dante don't care about anything in their way, they just want to keep going.

These chains turn out to be holding the Devil in hell, which it's revealed that through a bit of tempting and foul play, he caused death of Dante and the damnation of Beatrice, which he knew would cause Dante to cut his way down to her after another trick that made him think he was alive. By the time you've rescued Beatrice, you've already broken more than enough chains, and now must face the consequences (there's also a bit of a question as to whether God's forces happened to allow this and help guide you in order for you to not only stop this scheme from happening to a man unable to carry it out, or to save a soul and start the redemntion of another). When finally fight Lucifer, you find out the truth, causing your scythe to disappear. However, in the end, you defeat the devil, and cast off the now burnt cloth cross that displayed all your sins.

However, those paying attention will remember that Dante sewed it on after he "killed" Death and- AHA! The sin cross turns into a snake, begging the question of is it just his sins running away, or did Dante in the end help the Devil escape without knowing it? If it's the latter than you've got the perfect set up for this next game, where demons can come to play as well.

 

[Elementlmage]

PLEASE!!!!!!! QUIT RAPING DANTE ALIGHIERI! PLLEEEEEEHEHEHEHEEEEZ!!!!!

These people are officially WORSE than George Lucas!

Don't you love it when gamers whine about games they have never bothered to play based on reviews alone?

People enjoyed it, these people payed for the game.
If other people enjoy a game that you didn't want to play, that affects you in no way at all.

Wrong, if effects all rational beings who wish to see great works of art and literature treated with respect and dignity. I would have no issues with the game if they called it something else, or at least tried to preserve the source material in some practicable manner.

Tell me how it effects "all rational beings" or art and literature.
It doesn't, it's just a game. If you don't enjoy it, don't play it. Saying it's "raping" anything is just childish. It's existence is not harming anyone.
A movie based on a game doesn't destroy the game, a game based on a movie doesn't destroy the movie, and any piece of art based on another piece of art does not destroy the first work of art.
Your just looking for something to complain about. You complaining about the existence of a game you refuse to play is like me bitching about pickles because I heard they're terrible.

And here you are, complaining about my complaining. Oh the irony...

Oh, and how dare you assume to know what I have and have not done! For your information I made it through the first few levels without managing to puke on myself. Then I said, "Fuck it" and gave up.

 

[13lackfriday]

Despite all the shit this is going to get from the high-minded literary snobs, I'd personally be fascinated to see a videogame series that actually, visually maps out the Afterlife.

 

[Gunner 51]

I personally really enjoyed dante's inferno. I know hell seems an obvious setting for videogames, but really, it hasn't been done in a traditional sense much. There's alway some sort of twist, like doom's sci-fi edge, or darksider's (admittedly cool) almost comc book-esque graphical style. To see a traditional fire-and-brymstone style of hell done with modern graphical power was a unique experience. Personally, as a huge fan of hack and slash games, I liked the combat too...>_> Sure it was no Devil May Cry, but it was still pretty good. I will admit it was held up by it's setting and atmosphere way more than the gameplay.

As for the series continuing? I think visceral did a good job of depicting the nine circles well. Sure, the whole ten circles of treachery thing was kinda bad, but on the whole, generally good. I would be at very least, interested, to see what they do with purgatory, especially given the fact that the source material isn't prime videogame stuff. Yes, some twisting of the original story would be required, but I feel the true staying power of Aligheri's work is not the story, but the atmosphere, the setting. When people say dante's inferno (if the game did not exist) they would not usually mention beatrice, or dante, but hell itself, in a way, the biggest character of the work. The one that has lasted, and created our common imaginings of hell. But what direction of the story? Well, if you are not afraid of spoilers, read on:

Spoiler

Okay, nearer to the end of the first game, when date absolves beatrice who is then taken away by an angel (Was it St lucia? I forget now) who says something along the lines of dante's part being bigger than he knew. Then of course, the part at the end where dante rips off his cross only for it to turn into a snake (the traditional mortal form of the devil, let's remeber), that then slithers away to evil laughter. I think that the angels knew that the devil plotted to use dante to escape. They thought that if dante defeated him, he would fail, and having seen dante's actions in hell, they thought he could. When he did, he escaped hell by his own hand, something which has never been done before according to virgil (he said the only way he's ever seen anyone exit hell is by being rescued by an angel) This could mean that by escaping hell, he unexpectedly let the devil out too.

I think it could mean that in purgatory, Dante will have to continue to fight the devil ad his minons, having flooded over into purgatory, before possibly, making a last stand in heaven.

Of course, this is entirely different from the story of the poem, but like I said, the most fascinating part of the poem isn't the story, but the settings.

That's a very interesting thought. An alternative story to this could be that God had missed a few of Lucifer's chums when he was originally cleaning house during Lucifer's rebellion. Lucifer had sleeper agents ready should he ever escape Hell.

After all, no-one had escaped Hell by their own hand - and when Dante accomplished this, he accidentally brought Lucifer with him. When Lucifer escaped, the sleeper agents awakened and began machinations that would start another civil war in Heaven and Purgatory alike.

In the sequel game of Dante's Inferno. Purgatory is being corrupted from somewhere, while it looks like Luciferian influence is at work - there's something amiss - the source of the corruption is coming from Heaven itself. Dante fights his way through Purgatory while fending off Lucifer's new Purgatorian army while trying to find to enter heaven and end the source of the corruption.

In the third part of the game: Dante enters Heaven to find it in a state of civil war. Lucifer has smashed his way through to Heaven and is starting to corrupt the place - Dante now having the aid of the Seraphan try to fight off Lucifer's advance, find his allies and finish Lucifer off for good.