Objective opinion needed: Should I give up Soulsborne?

bartholen_v1legacy

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ReservoirAngel said:
bartholen said:
Though it really bewilders me how you could beat Iudex Gundyr, but not the Taurus Demon. Iudex is, rather bafflingly, one of the tougher bosses in DS3 considering the level you face him at. Taurus is practically given you a platter to plunge attack him for days.
Dark Souls was my first ever attempt at these games, so I got a touch overwhelmed. Being honest if I played it again I could probably kill the Taurus Demon now, but back then I just couldn't. I mean if I can kill the Last Giant, the Pursuer, the Dragonrider, the Old Dragonslayer, Flexile Sentry, Iudex Gundyr, the Cleric Beast, Father Gascoigne and the Blood-Starved Beast then I can probably whomp the Taurus Demon at this point.
The it baffles me even more that you could beat Gascoigne, the toughest starting out boss in the entire continuum, no ifs and no buts, but got stumped by the Witch of Hemwick, a boss that's about Pinwheel/Last Giant tier of difficulty, of all things.
 

ReservoirAngel

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bartholen said:
ReservoirAngel said:
bartholen said:
Though it really bewilders me how you could beat Iudex Gundyr, but not the Taurus Demon. Iudex is, rather bafflingly, one of the tougher bosses in DS3 considering the level you face him at. Taurus is practically given you a platter to plunge attack him for days.
Dark Souls was my first ever attempt at these games, so I got a touch overwhelmed. Being honest if I played it again I could probably kill the Taurus Demon now, but back then I just couldn't. I mean if I can kill the Last Giant, the Pursuer, the Dragonrider, the Old Dragonslayer, Flexile Sentry, Iudex Gundyr, the Cleric Beast, Father Gascoigne and the Blood-Starved Beast then I can probably whomp the Taurus Demon at this point.
The it baffles me even more that you could beat Gascoigne, the toughest starting out boss in the entire continuum, no ifs and no buts, but got stumped by the Witch of Hemwick, a boss that's about Pinwheel/Last Giant tier of difficulty, of all things.
I blame myself entirely for the Witch killing me. I'd seen so many people say it was such a piss-easy fight because she barely attacks you that I forgot 'barely' does not mean 'never' and got caught with two rapid-succession AoE attacks that I didn't even know she had. So that was less lack of skill and more just me being an idiot who didn't prepare properly.

And to be fair it did take me a shit-ton of attempts and two different characters to be able to beat Gascoigne and I did eventually resort to the dick move tactic of just molotov-spamming him to death in his final form.
 

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ReservoirAngel said:
bartholen said:
ReservoirAngel said:
bartholen said:
Though it really bewilders me how you could beat Iudex Gundyr, but not the Taurus Demon. Iudex is, rather bafflingly, one of the tougher bosses in DS3 considering the level you face him at. Taurus is practically given you a platter to plunge attack him for days.
Dark Souls was my first ever attempt at these games, so I got a touch overwhelmed. Being honest if I played it again I could probably kill the Taurus Demon now, but back then I just couldn't. I mean if I can kill the Last Giant, the Pursuer, the Dragonrider, the Old Dragonslayer, Flexile Sentry, Iudex Gundyr, the Cleric Beast, Father Gascoigne and the Blood-Starved Beast then I can probably whomp the Taurus Demon at this point.
The it baffles me even more that you could beat Gascoigne, the toughest starting out boss in the entire continuum, no ifs and no buts, but got stumped by the Witch of Hemwick, a boss that's about Pinwheel/Last Giant tier of difficulty, of all things.
I blame myself entirely for the Witch killing me. I'd seen so many people say it was such a piss-easy fight because she barely attacks you that I forgot 'barely' does not mean 'never' and got caught with two rapid-succession AoE attacks that I didn't even know she had. So that was less lack of skill and more just me being an idiot who didn't prepare properly.

And to be fair it did take me a shit-ton of attempts and two different characters to be able to beat Gascoigne and I did eventually resort to the dick move tactic of just molotov-spamming him to death in his final form.
Sometimes shit like that happens.

I'll admit I had to fight Prowling Magus and congregation like 5 or 6 times to kill them. OTOH, I beat the Smelter demon in 2 tries(not counting the one I helped with as a gold phantom), Lost Sinner in 1, Rotten in 1, Looking Glass Knight in 1, Demon of Song in 1.

But apparently the "easiest" boss in DS2 was just too much. Oh, and the Old Iron King, which I also had issues with. Granted. most of the times I died involved some variant of "Roll into/get knocked into" the lava, but still, I kept hearing "Old Iron King is a Joke". He apparently never got that memo and continued to keep knocking me into the lava.
 

CritialGaming

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Soulsborne games are a very strange type of game. They are hard, unforgiving, and seem to be more of a test of determination more than anything else. What I would do is ask yourself, "Can I get beat theses guys?" You mentioned that you failed to the witches is Bloodborne because you merely forgot about their AoE attack, that seems to me like you can beat them, just remember about that attack. Don't give up.

What I would say is you should pick your poison. You've played a lot of the soulsborne games, so which one did you like the best or which one seemed easier to you? I would pick and stick with whichever one fitted your style the best, and keep chugging through it.

HOwever if you are just so frustrated with the games that you aren't having fun and don't want to try anymore....then don't. No shame in that.
 

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Are you having fun? Do you feel engaged?

If yes, then no. If no, then yes.
 

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ReservoirAngel said:
Let me explain: I feel like I'm locked in an abusive relationship with From Software and the Dark Souls/Bloodborne games. I absolutely love everything about them, from the design to the lore, but despite my desire to experience these things for myself I have been categorically unable to because I am what you'd call a pathetic ***** who might as well be trying to play with 10 thumbs, 9 of which are broken, when attempting these games.

Just a quick rundown of how badly I have failed at them:

Dark Souls: Couldn't even beat the Tuarus Demon.

So... yeah. That's my record. With this in mind, should I honestly just stop kidding myself, give up and forget these games even exist? Is it even worth the hassle and failure?
I?ve only played Dark Souls (so far,) but I sympathize with you because when I wanted to stop admiring the game from afar 3 years ago, the Taurus Demon was the same initial brick wall for me. But I came back to it in October, and between wikis and the fine people in this forum, I was able to power through. I?m currently on NG+ and believe me, it IS worth it. Dark Souls went from being an impossible 3-year-old waste of money to easily one of my favorite games of all time.

Assuming you might be anything like myself, the first hurdle to ?gittin? gud? in Dark Souls (which I won?t claim to be) is to put aside presumptions you might have been conditioned to believe through experiences with more traditional hack-n-slashy RPGs; ?blank slate? your brain and let Dark Souls teach you its specific set of rules and don?t get mad when the ?old rules? don?t seem to apply. Once you do, I won?t say it gets easy, but it certainly gets easier, easier to understand and easier to learn as you progress.

Not to direct you away from this thread to the one I started in which I asked for help when I jumped back into Dark Souls, but the advice I received from several great people in here was invaluable. They had to slap my hand a few times and break me of bad habits, but with them and a decent wiki, I went from quitting after repeatedly being the Taurus Demon?s ***** to beating him and every other boss in the main game and DLC, optional and otherwise (except Kalameet; he?s literally impossible. Anyone who has beaten him is a filthy hacker.)

If you love everything about the games, it?s worth it to learn to love learning to play them (yes, that makes sense;) once it clicks? well, Yahtzee puts it best:


Besides, you really can?t beat the feeling of finally overcoming the challenge; that feeling alone is worth the price of admission. Don?t confuse the difficulty of these games with an insurmountable, impenetrable wall; it?s rarely that you can?t and more likely that you just haven?t figured out how, and it?s those breakthrough moments when you realize that doing the same thing over and over again isn?t the way, rather it?s about getting to the point that you know what enemies are going to do before they do and reacting accordingly that make Souls so worth it. Artorias is the 2nd DLC boss. He?s pretty much just like all other boss fights leading up to him, but on cocaine. He?s fast, his moveset is? ?extensive? to say the least and he buffs throughout the fight leading to potential one-shotters if you?re not careful. I must have tried him 15-20 times, but after I got over the initial frustration hump and started paying attention:

 

ReservoirAngel

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CritialGaming said:
What I would say is you should pick your poison. You've played a lot of the soulsborne games, so which one did you like the best or which one seemed easier to you? I would pick and stick with whichever one fitted your style the best, and keep chugging through it.
The one I like best is Bloodborne. But the one I found objectively easiest is Dark Souls 2, but I have no motivation to play that one again.
 

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ReservoirAngel said:
CritialGaming said:
What I would say is you should pick your poison. You've played a lot of the soulsborne games, so which one did you like the best or which one seemed easier to you? I would pick and stick with whichever one fitted your style the best, and keep chugging through it.
The one I like best is Bloodborne. But the one I found objectively easiest is Dark Souls 2, but I have no motivation to play that one again.
I will tell you now, the one that is objectively easiest is Dark Souls 1.

You've already stated that you could probably beat Taurus demon quite easily after having beaten much harder bosses in the later games. Why not go back to the first game and do just that?

Beat the Taurus demon and keep playing Dark Souls 1 and see where that takes you.
 

ReservoirAngel

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Dirty Hipsters said:
ReservoirAngel said:
CritialGaming said:
What I would say is you should pick your poison. You've played a lot of the soulsborne games, so which one did you like the best or which one seemed easier to you? I would pick and stick with whichever one fitted your style the best, and keep chugging through it.
The one I like best is Bloodborne. But the one I found objectively easiest is Dark Souls 2, but I have no motivation to play that one again.
I will tell you now, the one that is objectively easiest is Dark Souls 1.

You've already stated that you could probably beat Taurus demon quite easily after having beaten much harder bosses in the later games. Why not go back to the first game and do just that?

Beat the Taurus demon and keep playing Dark Souls 1 and see where that takes you.
Because unfortunately I know exactly [http://darksouls.wdfiles.com/local--files/bosses/ornstein-smough-large.jpg] where the Dark Souls 1 road will take me.
 

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ReservoirAngel said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
ReservoirAngel said:
CritialGaming said:
What I would say is you should pick your poison. You've played a lot of the soulsborne games, so which one did you like the best or which one seemed easier to you? I would pick and stick with whichever one fitted your style the best, and keep chugging through it.
The one I like best is Bloodborne. But the one I found objectively easiest is Dark Souls 2, but I have no motivation to play that one again.
I will tell you now, the one that is objectively easiest is Dark Souls 1.

You've already stated that you could probably beat Taurus demon quite easily after having beaten much harder bosses in the later games. Why not go back to the first game and do just that?

Beat the Taurus demon and keep playing Dark Souls 1 and see where that takes you.
Because unfortunately I know exactly [http://darksouls.wdfiles.com/local--files/bosses/ornstein-smough-large.jpg] where the Dark Souls 1 road will take me.
Trust me when I say that Ornstein and Smough aren't that bad. Dark Souls 1 was the first Souls game a lot of people played, and because of that a lot of the boss encounters in that game seemed harder than they actually are.

Ornstein and Smough is doable, especially so if you summon someone for the fight, and it just so happens that Solaire's summon sign is right outside the fog gate.

That boss fight is also pretty far into the game, at a point where you have a lot of different options for weapons, armor, and combat styles, and by the point you reach it you'll probably be half-way decent at the game.
 

ReservoirAngel

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Honestly I'm not even worried about them. I'm just picturing myself buying the damn game again... and still not being able to get past the Taurus Demon. Something about that fucker, man.
 

MHR

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Hey, you could always watch a let's play of the game. You'll learn some tips for how to win it, and if you don't want to play the game after that because all the surprise is gone, at least you'll know what was in the game.
 

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ReservoirAngel said:
Let me explain: I feel like I'm locked in an abusive relationship with From Software and the Dark Souls/Bloodborne games. I absolutely love everything about them, from the design to the lore, but despite my desire to experience these things for myself I have been categorically unable to because I am what you'd call a pathetic ***** who might as well be trying to play with 10 thumbs, 9 of which are broken, when attempting these games.

Just a quick rundown of how badly I have failed at them:

Dark Souls: Couldn't even beat the Tuarus Demon.
Dark Souls 2: Got up to Ruin Sentinels. Didn't even bother fighting them, just kind of... stopped playing. Got the game again later, couldn't beat the Pursuer.
Dark Souls 3: Not even going into how badly I sucked here. I at least beat Iudex Gundyr but to this day have no idea what the next boss is.
Bloodborne: Made it to Witches of Hemwick, died embarrassingly because I forgot they had an AoE attack, have been unable to get back because I can't fight Executioners.

So... yeah. That's my record. With this in mind, should I honestly just stop kidding myself, give up and forget these games even exist? Is it even worth the hassle and failure?
No

Try to practice more on your own

Even a guy like DSP could beat them. Look him up to see what I'm talking about.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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Hey, at least you beat the Asylum Demon.

If plot is more important to you than challenge (a sentiment I sometimes feel towards the Tales games), just watch a Let's Play, see how they do it and copy that, perhaps being a tad more cautious than they were. Best of luck.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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ReservoirAngel said:
I am on record HATING Souls games. I mean so much Jim Sterling refers to me in his podcast as that guy who really hates Souls games. By name. He had opened the cast telling me, SilentPony, to stop listening because its all Dark Souls all the time this week.

Anyway, cards on the table, I've played Souls, Souls 2 and Bloodborne. And Bloodborne is without a doubt an easier, more forgiving game. If you're going to continue any of the series, choose that one. Its a radically different game design built around dodging and quick attacks rather than turtling up and heavy attacks. And the 'shoot em in the face' parry ability is way easier to get right than blocking in normal Souls games.

As far as the witches, I'm not going to tell you how long it took me to beat them, or how to do so. Because I refuse to be one of them. So I'll simply say keep at it. Fight the executioners. Remember the tower? The two story tower before the graveyard area with the two executioners? They can't get through the door. But can be hit through the door. Their attacks can still carry through, so watch it, but you can lure them and take your time, figure out what works, what doesn't. Learn the timing of their attacks and yours.

They're beatable. And so are the Bitches of Hemwick.
 

ReservoirAngel

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Silentpony said:
ReservoirAngel said:
I am on record HATING Souls games. I mean so much Jim Sterling refers to me in his podcast as that guy who really hates Souls games. By name. He had opened the cast telling me, SilentPony, to stop listening because its all Dark Souls all the time this week.

Anyway, cards on the table, I've played Souls, Souls 2 and Bloodborne. And Bloodborne is without a doubt an easier, more forgiving game. If you're going to continue any of the series, choose that one. Its a radically different game design built around dodging and quick attacks rather than turtling up and heavy attacks. And the 'shoot em in the face' parry ability is way easier to get right than blocking in normal Souls games.

As far as the witches, I'm not going to tell you how long it took me to beat them, or how to do so. Because I refuse to be one of them. So I'll simply say keep at it. Fight the executioners. Remember the tower? The two story tower before the graveyard area with the two executioners? They can't get through the door. But can be hit through the door. Their attacks can still carry through, so watch it, but you can lure them and take your time, figure out what works, what doesn't. Learn the timing of their attacks and yours.

They're beatable. And so are the Bitches of Hemwick.

That's the opposite experience I've had. Demon's and the original Dark for me were far more forgiving due to shields, ranged attack options, etc. They still have their difficult segments, but so far in Bloodborne my death count has to be at least double or triple whatever it was much farther along in either of my first two Souls games.
 

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hanselthecaretaker said:
Silentpony said:
ReservoirAngel said:
I am on record HATING Souls games. I mean so much Jim Sterling refers to me in his podcast as that guy who really hates Souls games. By name. He had opened the cast telling me, SilentPony, to stop listening because its all Dark Souls all the time this week.

Anyway, cards on the table, I've played Souls, Souls 2 and Bloodborne. And Bloodborne is without a doubt an easier, more forgiving game. If you're going to continue any of the series, choose that one. Its a radically different game design built around dodging and quick attacks rather than turtling up and heavy attacks. And the 'shoot em in the face' parry ability is way easier to get right than blocking in normal Souls games.

As far as the witches, I'm not going to tell you how long it took me to beat them, or how to do so. Because I refuse to be one of them. So I'll simply say keep at it. Fight the executioners. Remember the tower? The two story tower before the graveyard area with the two executioners? They can't get through the door. But can be hit through the door. Their attacks can still carry through, so watch it, but you can lure them and take your time, figure out what works, what doesn't. Learn the timing of their attacks and yours.

They're beatable. And so are the Bitches of Hemwick.

That's the opposite experience I've had. Demon's and the original Dark for me were far more forgiving due to shields, ranged attack options, etc. They still have their difficult segments, but so far in Bloodborne my death count has to be at least double or triple whatever it was much farther along in either of my first two Souls games.
Interesting. Different strokes I guess? I seriously couldn't get past the first boss in Souls. It took far too long to get to it, first off, no quick shortcuts, terrible controls, unforgiving basic enemies, and very little direction. I mean the first real level has like 4 different paths to choose from, 6 of which are the wrong path, and the right path isn't any different except...well no, its not different.

Bloodborne starts you clearly on a street with 1 way forward. So that alone was simpler for me. Took way way way less time to get to the first boss. For me because I couldn't beat those two werewolves on the bridge, it was Father Greg. Who took about 3 attempts. He's fast, but I found a glitch that let me attack him from behind grave markers, but he couldn't hit me, and wasn't fast enough even in his final form to chase me.

I clicked with Bloodborne. It still took me like 9 hours and two rage deletes of the entire game to get to Greg, but I got there damn it! Felt no relief or sense of accomplishment, but I was able to continue the game.

And I will admit I hate boss fights. Hate them. Spent 3 weeks, no joke, and from my estimate nearly 200,000 lost souls(at about 3000 souls a life) fighting the Blood Starved Beast. Every video I watched, guide I read, everything had it acting completely different. Some said fire worked, others throwing smelly blood lures it away, others shooting it, others hit its butt, etc. None of which worked. It never acted the same one attempt to another. Sometimes it'd chase the smelly blood, others it'd one shot me the very first swing. When I did beat it, after leveling up until about lvl47-50, after killing a bunch of other bosses, I felt nothing. Completely cold and emotionless. No relief. Nothing.
So I resolved to never ever spend more than 2 attempts on a boss. So I'll summon an NPC and 1 player to help the first time when I'm about to fight a boss. And up to 2 players if I die. I refuse to grind bosses. And I've one-shot many of them and don't feel bad one way or the other.

And to be honest I'm a sucker for lovecraftian shit. Just wish someone would have told me the silver lake slug spider ruins the world if you kill it. Had shit to do, but nope, someone spilled strawberry jam on the sky and everything sucks.
 

ReservoirAngel

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Well I don't think I'm ready to try getting back into the Souls games specifically just yet, but I have decided to carry on trying to push on with Bloodborne at the very least. I mean I'll probably be right back here with the same problems when I eventually decide to tackle Vicar Amelia, but for now I'm going to try and just rush past the Executioners to bitchslap the Witches and be fucking done with Hemwick Charnel Lane once and for all. Fucking hate the place anyway.
 

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Go back to the original and actually take the time to improve and progress. You're not doing yourself any favors by splitting your time between the three games, all of which play differently from the other.
 

ReservoirAngel

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Silentpony said:
Interesting. Different strokes I guess? I seriously couldn't get past the first boss in Souls. It took far too long to get to it, first off, no quick shortcuts, terrible controls, unforgiving basic enemies, and very little direction. I mean the first real level has like 4 different paths to choose from, 6 of which are the wrong path, and the right path isn't any different except...well no, its not different.

Bloodborne starts you clearly on a street with 1 way forward. So that alone was simpler for me. Took way way way less time to get to the first boss. For me because I couldn't beat those two werewolves on the bridge, it was Father Greg. Who took about 3 attempts. He's fast, but I found a glitch that let me attack him from behind grave markers, but he couldn't hit me, and wasn't fast enough even in his final form to chase me.

I clicked with Bloodborne. It still took me like 9 hours and two rage deletes of the entire game to get to Greg, but I got there damn it! Felt no relief or sense of accomplishment, but I was able to continue the game.

And I will admit I hate boss fights. Hate them. Spent 3 weeks, no joke, and from my estimate nearly 200,000 lost souls(at about 3000 souls a life) fighting the Blood Starved Beast. Every video I watched, guide I read, everything had it acting completely different. Some said fire worked, others throwing smelly blood lures it away, others shooting it, others hit its butt, etc. None of which worked. It never acted the same one attempt to another. Sometimes it'd chase the smelly blood, others it'd one shot me the very first swing. When I did beat it, after leveling up until about lvl47-50, after killing a bunch of other bosses, I felt nothing. Completely cold and emotionless. No relief. Nothing.
So I resolved to never ever spend more than 2 attempts on a boss. So I'll summon an NPC and 1 player to help the first time when I'm about to fight a boss. And up to 2 players if I die. I refuse to grind bosses. And I've one-shot many of them and don't feel bad one way or the other.

And to be honest I'm a sucker for lovecraftian shit. Just wish someone would have told me the silver lake slug spider ruins the world if you kill it. Had shit to do, but nope, someone spilled strawberry jam on the sky and everything sucks.

That sounds rough! After reading that I guess in a way I wasn't completely accurate with my original assessment. The moment to moment gameplay of Bloodborne to me is definitely more challenging, and I've died far more just getting to the bosses. But strangely enough the bosses haven't caused me much grief...yet. I've only beaten Cleric Beast, Father Gascoigne, Djura + Ally, Bloodstarved Beast, and Amelia. Father G gave me the most trouble at somewhere between a dozen or two tries. Interestingly enough, all but one of those attempts was made the first day of trying. About the last 6 or so I started going up to the balcony, and the next day I took him down up there relatively easily less like it was a clean slate.

Beat Bloodstarved in one try with the NPC hunter assist, and Amelia in two or three the same way. I think I'm at level 41 now, but it is a hard fought 41 thanks to all the "scrubs".

Of course, I've had little trouble with a few Souls bosses as well, but the in between gameplay is usually also more lenient for me. With Bloodborne you're always needing to be in the thick of it, and some enemies seem much more prone to being able to one/two shot me. I like it though as there is always this sense of tension and a demand to be on point at all times. It really makes me appreciate the moments of reprieve.