Obsidian Hopes "Digital Distribution Stabs the Used Game Market in the Heart"

[LeQuack_Is_Back]

I don't follow. The games I got through digital distribution are PC games. The games I buy used are console games. I don't see how this helps at all.

Also, **** online passes. They're a terrible idea.

 

[Yosarian2]

It's the same concept. The guy who writes the book doesn't get a penny for used book sales, or library books, or people who buy a book and then loan it to a friend. He would probably rather everyone just bought the book new. But guess what? That's not up to him.

The difference is very easy to spot... I also really encourage you to read that guy's post as he put it very well, a book is largely written by one or two guys or gals and all that it requires is time and either a PC or a typewriter to type it on, if the author sells in the thousands he can usually call himself very lucky, while a game (similar to movies) are a group effort of up to hundreds of people working on the very big ones for multiple years and requiring high-talented people and engineers both with a high degree of technical and topical knowledge...

(shrug) It's more expensive to produce a game, sure, but the writing industry is really on a razors' edge lately. Maybe 5% of all books end up making a profit; the publishing industry really does struggle to keep itself in buisness. The video game industry, on the other hand, is the fastest growing segment of the economy. I don't think used games are putting them out of buisness.

Anyway, that's all irrelevant. You're arguing quantitative issues, and they don't matter here, this is a qualititative issue; should used sales of books, games, and movies be allowed or not. If they did, then you would be in favor of used game sales for small indie games produced by a few people.

"Used game" doesn't have to mean "gamestop", you know. It can just as easily mean "selling or buying it on ebay", or "trading a game you're bored with off to your friend for a game he's bored with", ect. Those are all options you have that the game companies want to take away from you, and I don't understand why you're ok with that.

Those existed for dozens of years and they didn't mention or do anything against them and it is rather unfortunate that they have to die/go, but if you want to thank anybody for that coming to pass then "GameStop" (or rather the people buying there without minding the consequences) are a rather good place to start.

The point is, is that if you accept publishers doing crap like activation codes and such to prevent used games, you're not just hurting gamestop, you're hurting every consumer of video games.

And, yes, gamestop itself helps consumers as well, just not as much as other ways of selling your used games. Anything that gives consumers more options helps consumers, that's pretty basic economics.

Anyway, how do you benefit? That's easy. It increases the value of the games that you own; because you can resell them. It decreases the cost of buying games. It increases competition, giving some market pressure on the game sellers to keep their prices more reasonable. It gives the consumer more options. It lets people try a new type of video game they've never played before for a reasonable price; if I've never played a sports game before, I'm not going to spend 60$ on one, but I might try an onlder one if I can get it used for 20$ at gamestop.

I haven't ever in my life resold a game or felt the need to do that, if I suspect that a game sucks I will most likely make an informed decision and not get it and I'm happy with collecting my games

It doesn't increase competition in the case of GameStop/BestBuy/Amazon etc. because what they make from the "used" copies they sell is pure profit [/quote]


That doesn't matter, it still increases competition and lowers the price of new games.

It's a pretty basic economic concept called "inferior goods". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferior_good.

If a game company knows that you can either by their game for new for X dollars or a used copy for Y dollars, they are forced to keep X at a more reasonable price. Sure, everyone would rather buy a new game then a used game (for one thing, used games often are somewhat scratched and wear out sooner), but no one is going to pay 100$ for a new game if they can et the same games used for 10$. The fact that the used market exists is the only reason you've been able to buy new games at reasonable prices at best-buy and game stores for so long.

If they drive the used game market out of business, it will push up the price of new games. That's just how economic works.

Digital distribution is a little different, since distribution costs are so much lower.

You're not paying the game designer anything, no. What you are doing, directly or indirectly, is paying the last person who got the game.

Logically speaking, from an economic point of view, people probably are willing to pay more money for a game if they know they can trade it in later. So, yes, by giving the customers that option, the game company is making more money.

I'll buy a game from an online distributor, sure, but I won't pay nearly as much for a game I don't get a physical copy of. I'll spend 50 or 60 dollars for a new game, but i will never spend more then 20$ for a game I download. Same goes for games that have an "activation code" or whatever.

Logically speaking, I want to reward the people that made a certain game and not some guy that bought it and managed to play it through in a few days, and give them a "thumbs up" with my money I put down on it, thus I am even willing to spend more money to get something "new".

If you want to make a charitable donation to EA or whatever game company made the game, feel free. But they really don't need it, and you don't have any special responsibility to do so. If someone else wants to sell the game, and you want to buy it, you are helping both yourself and that person; you're not helping the game company, but that doesn't mean you're doing anything morally wrong, and you shouldn't let game companies make you feel like you have some kind of moral responsibility to increase their profit margins at your own cost whenever you can.

 

[Nurb]

I hope piracy makes up for the diminishing used game market you hate so much, Obsidian.

I'm going to do what I can to avoid paying for a new copy, how do you like them apples? I'll make sure to buy used whenever possible (the same effect as piracy according to them) just because I love to hear you developers whine like a *****. Anything to keep money from going to developers that forget they were gamers once and treat customers like criminals and suckers to shake upside down for their loose change.

There's no big developer/publisher worth supporting anymore or any that make me care if they lose money from piracy, used games, or negative reviews they always cry about.

You're wrong. The video game industry says that you're wrong, and the law agrees that you're wrong. If you don't like their business practices, don't buy video games anymore. That's how capitalism works. You aren't allowed to have your cake and eat it too. This is why boycotts fail, because people don't understand that. Besides, it's not like they keep the fact that you're only paying for a license to use the system a secret. The last two letters in EULA stand for 'licensing agreement'.

For all the hot air about piracy and used games, people in the industry are remarkably prone to telling people to fuck off if they don't like it, as though the industry doesn't mind losing a customer anywhere near as much as they mind not being able to force people to give them money.

We're supposed to have sympathy for them too, even though by their own arguments they deserve to die off. Piracy and used games are killing the market, but the response to any legitimate complaint is to stop buying games if we don't like it. If people act rationally and refuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater and download a game or buy used, we?re killing them. What would they rather have us do? "Talk with our wallets" and not play the games at all, and certainly don't buy them. Which would also kill the industry, but that?s somehow the more moral solution. Either way the industry is basically daring us to kill it.

Most people are talking with their wallets, which is why the market is shrinking. And what message does the industry take from that? That they should do something different? Nope. The message is that they should simply move to consoles due to a shrinking market they surely can?t be responsible for. So even when we do follow the "moral" way, nothing changes. So the decision, from our view, is between "No Games, Dead Industry" and "Used/Pirated Games, Dead Industry".

In other words, if the industry isn?t going to get the message no matter what we do and is going to die either way, why should we care? Should I feel sorry for Ken Levine not getting paid for a good game? Nope. The industry doesn?t care about fucking us over in the name of unproven piracy damages and losses to a used market, so I don?t see why we should care if a few decent developers get crushed in the name of taking down an industry that could not possibly care less about doing proper business with us.

BTW It IS your property, and the courts have almost always thrown out EULAs for being too far-reaching. There's no other industry that allows a company to claim ownership or rights to more money after initial sale. Cars, TVs, and any other product can be purchased and resold without manufacturers crying like babies about not getting more money when their customer resells a used product.

Wow;
So your saying if they make it harder for you to pay gamestop to rip them off you'll just cut out the middleman and rip them off for free?
Just wow.
Two simple questions:
1) Since your not contributing towards the cost of the game anyways why not download it yourself and save some cash as your default action? I mean seriously neither action helps the developer but atleast if you download it you save money and dont contribute to the leach that is game stop.
2) Since you admit to preferring piracy if you cant buy it pre owned and neither action and Obsidian do see any money from you either way; why should they care how you feel about this?
I mean its not as if you are adding value or contributing to them.

But seriously wow.. all that anger because they actually want to be paid for their work..

1) I made my choice with my wallet to prefer used games because of the way big developers and publishers have conducted their businesses and treated their customers in the last 8 years. I didn't like it, so I don't buy it. See how that works? But YOU (and the devs) are calling me an asshole for actually doing it.

That's what I was getting at here:
Most people are talking with their wallets, which is why the market is shrinking. And what message does the industry take from that? That they should do something different? Nope. The message is that they should simply move to consoles due to a shrinking market they surely can't be responsible for. So even when we do follow the "moral" way (buying new not used), nothing changes.


When we do what they say and don't buy their games if we don't like what they do, they get vindictive and fail to see it's their fault for losing customers because they have their heads so far up their asses. I'm not going to buy Diablo III because of what BlizzAcc plans to do to make sure they keep their cut of the game's auction house, but again, instead of changing their practices, they want to call former customers jerks for 'voting with their dollar' instead of changing what they're doing to make people want to pay again.

I have a big library of games from Atari, NES, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, and PC I've been building since I was a kid... but when the suits started screwing with customers like they have been, I stopped buying PC games new, I canceled my LIVE account when DLC stopped being free when halo 2 started charging for a few maps, and haven't owned a console since the original Xbox.

So I was supporting all those companies by paying for a lot of games with my own money over the years (which is a big deal for gamers 16 and under), but instead of trying to win customers back, they'd rather call me a theif for stopping purchases of new games because of their actions and try to stamp out the used market instead of change what THEY DO.

So you bet your ass I'm pissed and see why I have no sympathy for any of the large companies anymore... indie market is a different story.

2) I didn't say -I- was pirating, I said I hope pirates take a chunk of cash out of their whiney gobs because they think they're entitled to a cut of the used market. I would say similar things if car companies acted the same way over used cars. I'm being as vindictive as they are. I don't see Ford fanboys calling each other assholes if they buy last year's model from a non-affiliated dealership because Ford can't get any of the money from the sale. The gaming industry isn't so special compared to every other industry that it can control customers AFTER initial sales.

If Apple wanted to brick their devices or turned off features if their customers resold them, people wouldn't let them.

BTW good choice in avatar, it appeals to me for... some reason.

 

[Adventurer2626]

Now we just gotta make the interwebs stronger and more accessible to more people. I'll take a box and a 20 minute install over no box and a 2 hour install any day of the week.

 

[Luke Cartner]

I hope piracy makes up for the diminishing used game market you hate so much, Obsidian.

I'm going to do what I can to avoid paying for a new copy, how do you like them apples? I'll make sure to buy used whenever possible (the same effect as piracy according to them) just because I love to hear you developers whine like a *****. Anything to keep money from going to developers that forget they were gamers once and treat customers like criminals and suckers to shake upside down for their loose change.

There's no big developer/publisher worth supporting anymore or any that make me care if they lose money from piracy, used games, or negative reviews they always cry about.

You're wrong. The video game industry says that you're wrong, and the law agrees that you're wrong. If you don't like their business practices, don't buy video games anymore. That's how capitalism works. You aren't allowed to have your cake and eat it too. This is why boycotts fail, because people don't understand that. Besides, it's not like they keep the fact that you're only paying for a license to use the system a secret. The last two letters in EULA stand for 'licensing agreement'.

For all the hot air about piracy and used games, people in the industry are remarkably prone to telling people to fuck off if they don't like it, as though the industry doesn't mind losing a customer anywhere near as much as they mind not being able to force people to give them money.

We're supposed to have sympathy for them too, even though by their own arguments they deserve to die off. Piracy and used games are killing the market, but the response to any legitimate complaint is to stop buying games if we don't like it. If people act rationally and refuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater and download a game or buy used, we?re killing them. What would they rather have us do? "Talk with our wallets" and not play the games at all, and certainly don't buy them. Which would also kill the industry, but that?s somehow the more moral solution. Either way the industry is basically daring us to kill it.

Most people are talking with their wallets, which is why the market is shrinking. And what message does the industry take from that? That they should do something different? Nope. The message is that they should simply move to consoles due to a shrinking market they surely can?t be responsible for. So even when we do follow the "moral" way, nothing changes. So the decision, from our view, is between "No Games, Dead Industry" and "Used/Pirated Games, Dead Industry".

In other words, if the industry isn?t going to get the message no matter what we do and is going to die either way, why should we care? Should I feel sorry for Ken Levine not getting paid for a good game? Nope. The industry doesn?t care about fucking us over in the name of unproven piracy damages and losses to a used market, so I don?t see why we should care if a few decent developers get crushed in the name of taking down an industry that could not possibly care less about doing proper business with us.

BTW It IS your property, and the courts have almost always thrown out EULAs for being too far-reaching. There's no other industry that allows a company to claim ownership or rights to more money after initial sale. Cars, TVs, and any other product can be purchased and resold without manufacturers crying like babies about not getting more money when their customer resells a used product.

Wow;
So your saying if they make it harder for you to pay gamestop to rip them off you'll just cut out the middleman and rip them off for free?
Just wow.
Two simple questions:
1) Since your not contributing towards the cost of the game anyways why not download it yourself and save some cash as your default action? I mean seriously neither action helps the developer but atleast if you download it you save money and dont contribute to the leach that is game stop.
2) Since you admit to preferring piracy if you cant buy it pre owned and neither action and Obsidian do see any money from you either way; why should they care how you feel about this?
I mean its not as if you are adding value or contributing to them.

But seriously wow.. all that anger because they actually want to be paid for their work..

1) I made my choice with my wallet to prefer used games because of the way big developers and publishers have conducted their businesses and treated their customers in the last 8 years. I didn't like it, so I don't buy it. See how that works? But YOU (and the devs) are calling me an asshole for actually doing it.

That's what I was getting at here:
Most people are talking with their wallets, which is why the market is shrinking. And what message does the industry take from that? That they should do something different? Nope. The message is that they should simply move to consoles due to a shrinking market they surely can't be responsible for. So even when we do follow the "moral" way (buying new not used), nothing changes.


When we do what they say and don't buy their games if we don't like what they do, they get vindictive and fail to see it's their fault for losing customers because they have their heads so far up their asses. I'm not going to buy Diablo III because of what BlizzAcc plans to do to make sure they keep their cut of the game's auction house, but again, instead of changing their practices, they want to call former customers jerks for 'voting with their dollar' instead of changing what they're doing to make people want to pay again.

I have a big library of games from Atari, NES, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, and PC I've been building since I was a kid... but when the suits started screwing with customers like they have been, I stopped buying PC games new, I canceled my LIVE account when DLC stopped being free when halo 2 started charging for a few maps, and haven't owned a console since the original Xbox.

So I was supporting all those companies by paying for a lot of games with my own money over the years (which is a big deal for gamers 16 and under), but instead of trying to win customers back, they'd rather call me a theif for stopping purchases of new games because of their actions and try to stamp out the used market instead of change what THEY DO.

So you bet your ass I'm pissed and see why I have no sympathy for any of the large companies anymore... indie market is a different story.

2) I didn't say -I- was pirating, I said I hope pirates take a chunk of cash out of their whiney gobs because they think they're entitled to a cut of the used market. I would say similar things if car companies acted the same way over used cars. I'm being as vindictive as they are. I don't see Ford fanboys calling each other assholes if they buy last year's model from a non-affiliated dealership because Ford can't get any of the money from the sale. The gaming industry isn't so special compared to every other industry that it can control customers AFTER initial sales.

If Apple wanted to brick their devices or turned off features if their customers resold them, people wouldn't let them.

BTW good choice in avatar, it appeals to me for... some reason.

My point and I'll make it again but shorter. regardless of if you are copying games or by preowned games you are pirating that is infringing on the game maker copy right.
The net effect of the people who make the games not being supported occurs in both options.

Most of your arguments are the same justifications used by pirates.
Look I agree with voting with your wallet.
But that doesn't mean buying it used it means not buying it at all.
There are alot of good and indie games out there just buy those instead.

Thanks for the comment on my avatar.

 

[Darius Brogan]

Most of your arguments are the same justifications used by pirates.

Speaking as someone who pirates quite often: I'm not justifying anything by not caring if a multi-billion-dollar corporation doesn't make sixty dollars because I pirated my copy of their game, or bought a used copy.

In fact, I don't think it's possible to care LESS that they didn't make another sixty bucks.

 

[Nurb]

I hope piracy makes up for the diminishing used game market you hate so much, Obsidian.

I'm going to do what I can to avoid paying for a new copy, how do you like them apples? I'll make sure to buy used whenever possible (the same effect as piracy according to them) just because I love to hear you developers whine like a *****. Anything to keep money from going to developers that forget they were gamers once and treat customers like criminals and suckers to shake upside down for their loose change.

There's no big developer/publisher worth supporting anymore or any that make me care if they lose money from piracy, used games, or negative reviews they always cry about.

You're wrong. The video game industry says that you're wrong, and the law agrees that you're wrong. If you don't like their business practices, don't buy video games anymore. That's how capitalism works. You aren't allowed to have your cake and eat it too. This is why boycotts fail, because people don't understand that. Besides, it's not like they keep the fact that you're only paying for a license to use the system a secret. The last two letters in EULA stand for 'licensing agreement'.

For all the hot air about piracy and used games, people in the industry are remarkably prone to telling people to fuck off if they don't like it, as though the industry doesn't mind losing a customer anywhere near as much as they mind not being able to force people to give them money.

We're supposed to have sympathy for them too, even though by their own arguments they deserve to die off. Piracy and used games are killing the market, but the response to any legitimate complaint is to stop buying games if we don't like it. If people act rationally and refuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater and download a game or buy used, we?re killing them. What would they rather have us do? "Talk with our wallets" and not play the games at all, and certainly don't buy them. Which would also kill the industry, but that?s somehow the more moral solution. Either way the industry is basically daring us to kill it.

Most people are talking with their wallets, which is why the market is shrinking. And what message does the industry take from that? That they should do something different? Nope. The message is that they should simply move to consoles due to a shrinking market they surely can?t be responsible for. So even when we do follow the "moral" way, nothing changes. So the decision, from our view, is between "No Games, Dead Industry" and "Used/Pirated Games, Dead Industry".

In other words, if the industry isn?t going to get the message no matter what we do and is going to die either way, why should we care? Should I feel sorry for Ken Levine not getting paid for a good game? Nope. The industry doesn?t care about fucking us over in the name of unproven piracy damages and losses to a used market, so I don?t see why we should care if a few decent developers get crushed in the name of taking down an industry that could not possibly care less about doing proper business with us.

BTW It IS your property, and the courts have almost always thrown out EULAs for being too far-reaching. There's no other industry that allows a company to claim ownership or rights to more money after initial sale. Cars, TVs, and any other product can be purchased and resold without manufacturers crying like babies about not getting more money when their customer resells a used product.

Wow;
So your saying if they make it harder for you to pay gamestop to rip them off you'll just cut out the middleman and rip them off for free?
Just wow.
Two simple questions:
1) Since your not contributing towards the cost of the game anyways why not download it yourself and save some cash as your default action? I mean seriously neither action helps the developer but atleast if you download it you save money and dont contribute to the leach that is game stop.
2) Since you admit to preferring piracy if you cant buy it pre owned and neither action and Obsidian do see any money from you either way; why should they care how you feel about this?
I mean its not as if you are adding value or contributing to them.

But seriously wow.. all that anger because they actually want to be paid for their work..

1) I made my choice with my wallet to prefer used games because of the way big developers and publishers have conducted their businesses and treated their customers in the last 8 years. I didn't like it, so I don't buy it. See how that works? But YOU (and the devs) are calling me an asshole for actually doing it.

That's what I was getting at here:
Most people are talking with their wallets, which is why the market is shrinking. And what message does the industry take from that? That they should do something different? Nope. The message is that they should simply move to consoles due to a shrinking market they surely can't be responsible for. So even when we do follow the "moral" way (buying new not used), nothing changes.


When we do what they say and don't buy their games if we don't like what they do, they get vindictive and fail to see it's their fault for losing customers because they have their heads so far up their asses. I'm not going to buy Diablo III because of what BlizzAcc plans to do to make sure they keep their cut of the game's auction house, but again, instead of changing their practices, they want to call former customers jerks for 'voting with their dollar' instead of changing what they're doing to make people want to pay again.

I have a big library of games from Atari, NES, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, and PC I've been building since I was a kid... but when the suits started screwing with customers like they have been, I stopped buying PC games new, I canceled my LIVE account when DLC stopped being free when halo 2 started charging for a few maps, and haven't owned a console since the original Xbox.

So I was supporting all those companies by paying for a lot of games with my own money over the years (which is a big deal for gamers 16 and under), but instead of trying to win customers back, they'd rather call me a theif for stopping purchases of new games because of their actions and try to stamp out the used market instead of change what THEY DO.

So you bet your ass I'm pissed and see why I have no sympathy for any of the large companies anymore... indie market is a different story.

2) I didn't say -I- was pirating, I said I hope pirates take a chunk of cash out of their whiney gobs because they think they're entitled to a cut of the used market. I would say similar things if car companies acted the same way over used cars. I'm being as vindictive as they are. I don't see Ford fanboys calling each other assholes if they buy last year's model from a non-affiliated dealership because Ford can't get any of the money from the sale. The gaming industry isn't so special compared to every other industry that it can control customers AFTER initial sales.

If Apple wanted to brick their devices or turned off features if their customers resold them, people wouldn't let them.

BTW good choice in avatar, it appeals to me for... some reason.

My point and I'll make it again but shorter. regardless of if you are copying games or by preowned games you are pirating that is infringing on the game maker copy right.
The net effect of the people who make the games not being supported occurs in both options.

Most of your arguments are the same justifications used by pirates.
Look I agree with voting with your wallet.
But that doesn't mean buying it used it means not buying it at all.
There are alot of good and indie games out there just buy those instead.

Thanks for the comment on my avatar.

You consider buying used games piracy as well? You're not infringing on anything and I'll prove it:
-Used DVDs either by store or online (ebay, craigslist)
-Used CDs either by store or online (ebay, craigslist)
-Libraries, man. Free books, music AND movies if you have a card.

Except the publishing, music, and movie industries, for all their annoying lobbying, accept that people buy and sell used products and come up with ways to entice NEW sales with new and existing customers.

"Look I agree with voting with your wallet. But that doesn't mean buying it used it means not buying it at all."
Yes it does, because buying a used game has the same effect of never planning to buy it new at all. I don't want to support the big devs and publishers anymore because of how they conduct their business, so them losing money is sort of the point of my decision. I didn't buy or play ANY of the new COD games, but I bought Dragon Age used; both have the same effect, but some people consider the former more "moral".

Again, this is because they're treating long-time loyal paying customers like theives, and making gaming experience more of a hassle. Either they can accept reality and change to do proper business with gamers, or they can keep telling us to fuck off and don't buy over legitimate complaints, then cry about sales and used games. So I really don't care about these big companies getting pirated.

But like you said, the indie studios are different and supportable.

 

[Babitz]

He mentioned disliking used game market in one sentence and you wrote an entire news article about that and only that. It was just a footnote in the entire interview.
Oh well, I guess The Escapist needs its share of sensationalist "journalism" and shitty headlines. It's like they saw the IGeNerator and thought they should take notes.

 

[Twilight_guy]

FROM HELL'S HEART I STAB AT THEE!!!!

That's a bit of an extreme view. Used games sales are an issue to be address but lets keep things in perspective here. It's not a good thing but its not something that you necessarily want to nuke from orbit either.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

Is it just me, or does anyone else interpret these complaints about the used game market as "waaah, waaah, we're not satisfied with the MILLIONS of dollars we're earning."

Not necessarily. Given how video games can cost upwards of millions of dollars, and the success of some devs relies solely on their game selling a lot of copies, it's not surprising that these companies are going cutthroat in order to produce sales.

But at the same time, I do agree that some of the hate is absolutely unwarranted. Instead of cramming a bunch of idiotic online passes on your game and insulting the rest of the people that buy your game because they're used, maybe instead you should work on making a very substantial and full game that everyone will enjoy. Word of mouth and good advertising will ensure that you make a lot of profit: see Skyrim and Bastion.

Also, I find this kind of reasoning a bit funny. People complain that their sales are being eaten up by Used Games, but they never consider how the games became used in the first place. They become used because, most likely, a disgruntled customer was not satisfied with the product you came out with, and thus traded it in for something he would enjoy more. This shows that, essentially, your product was not what he wanted, and thus it's probably not as deserving of the profit as you think it should be.

Besides, in a day where you can basically market DLC or get online ads everywhere, I don't see why people are complaining about the 'used games' market. imo, if you're complaining about that, then obviously there's another option for profit that you're simply too stubborn to recognize and use yet.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

This coming from the company who can't make a decent game without a bucket full of problems. I have to question that they are only saying this because their games are mostly bad/buggy and people don't want to fork out the dough for a game that reviewed badly.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Ok I'll make you a deal, go buy x-blades at full price, play it for a day and tell me if you would sell it or not to help recoup some of the money wasted.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

If game sales are a problem I don't wanna see anymore reports of "X game broke record sales", when we are int he economic state we are in now.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Seriously, console gamers complain about wanted to buy used games because they cannot afford buying the game outright. If you cannot afford a luxury, you have no right to have it. Used games are legalized piracy, and is the sole reason console gaming is being bogged down this badly.

This "try the game before you buy it" argument is the same one used by pirates. We have something called the internet, which gives you a heads up if the game is quality or not. PC gamers rarely have a used game, and yet we know if the game is quality through the internet. Look at how RAGE bombed when news of it being broken spread through the internet like wildfire.

Used game sales give nothing back to the industry, and only drain its viability. It hurts publishers, it hurts developers, and it hurts consumers. Game companies walk on a very thin tightrope, and a game bombing financially is a VERY REAL POSSIBILITY. If one game bombs, you might as well close up shop because a bombed console game can bankrupt even the biggest companies. Companies are not being greedy, they are protecting their ass from near-bankruptcy.

When are these people going to realize that by doing this they are encouraging piracy, and that not everyone has enough money to buy all the games new?
I am going to laugh so hard when the death of used games market leaves certain developers out of business. Used games market has to exist. It gives people the chance to sell the games they don't want to play anymore in order to have the money to buy other games they want to play. Take that option away from them, and customers will be very careful when they buy games. They will buy less games because they won't be sure they're worth their money if they have no chance of selling them once they're done playing.
Greed makes people make stupid business decisions. It amazes me how they fail to see the far reaching consequences of trying to kill the used games market.

Used games will cost more developers than it saves. Publishers and developers on consoles need EVERY new sale they can get. If they don't the game bombs and anyone involved goes bankrupt.

Console gaming is not as healthy or safe as you think. Even the biggest companies are walking a thin line between bankruptcy and making a profit. Gaming is a very high risk, and very few gamers acknowledge that fact. Used games will only hurt gaming.

This "I cant afford it" argument sounds like a first world problem. You don't need gaming to live, and if you don't have the cash to afford it, you have no right to have it. Gaming isn't a need, its a fucking luxury. You have no right to a luxury if you cannot afford it.

This. So much fucking this.

While I still find piracy far more palateable than the used-market (one of them not being a lost sale to begin with, the other being a conscious choice to give money to someone who don't deserve it while depriving the one who do of a deserved paycheck.), you are largely correct. If you can't afford a new game, wait for it to go on sale or until prices drop. It's that simple. If you can afford it new but still decide to go the cheap route for... what, five bucks less? Maybe ten? Then you're being an utter douche, feeding a system that is slowly but surely turning the game industry into a high-risk sport where even the best and most well-loved developers run the risk of falling hard.

This is extremely detrimental to us as gamers and yes, this applies to you used-market fanboys as well. If this rather nasty problem doesn't get fixed somehow, (pure digital distribution is an option for the future, once we can have proper broadband without caps in the majority of homes) we'll end up with a far less diverse game industry with far less quality/innovative works as no one dares to try something that's not 100% safe.

Welcome to the day of endless CoD:MW clones.

Nooooo you mean we are going to have CoD:MW clones because of used sales and not because that is what sales in the general market over niche games people don't wanna FORK THE 60 BUCKS TO PLAY. Well shoot I guess it's used games fault no one plays games that are not crazy popular like Halo and Call of Duty, never mind the fact used games can enable someone to play a lesser known game with low risk (I thank used game sales for turning me into a NIS(A) fan boy). And including a lot of games that are popular mesh well with a certain core demographic group (18-25 males) trickle down to the younger demographic groups because they perceive what the older group plays is cool.

Don't make such off ball conclusions like that to make a point. Because you know what would also help with people wanting to take a risk on a "different gaming experience" (I say piracy since I see it as a demo for games that are not available, and I already said used games)? Lower the cost of games in general. Unless it's a big name game from a big name company, no one is going to be willing to drop money on it (Kinda like Earthbound, a not so well loved genre in the states(RPG), from a unknown company with a 70 dollar price tag and piss poor advertisements).

Before you go pointing your finger at a LEGAL market you should look at game companies also because they are not doing this for your interest they do it for money.

 

[Zom-B]

I would strongly disagree that the used game market and piracy have little in common for an ethical perspective.
Both result in the copyright holder not getting paid for there efforts. Both include people not paying for a license to use that copyright (in the form of the game).
Just because you paid some money does not make it ethical anymore than paying for a pirated game would be.

Actually its true. Pirates have far more ethics than used game buyers. Allow me to explain

Who makes money off of these ventures?

Piracy: No one, its all free.

Used Games: The used gamer who is getting 30 dollars, and the gamestop assholes who get another 20 dollars by selling it so some sheep of a used gamer that buys it for 5 dollars less than new.

Sorry dude, logical fallacy. People selling their used games aren't "making money". You have to purchase a used game first, right? You generally pay full price (and even if you buy a game used, then sell it, 9 times out of 10 you'll sell it for less than you paid). When you sell it, you get less than full price. That's the nature of used goods. So when I purchase a game for $60 and sell it for $30, I'm not "making money".

I will agree that Gamestop makes money off of used games, but first and foremost they are providing a service. They've created a business where thousands of people can take games so that thousands of other people can find them, with little to no hassle. Buying and selling online or via classified or what have you, is of course doable, but not as many people want to go through the hassles involved. Take eBay or Craigslist for example: creating your listing, hoping to get an offer, talking to buyers/sellers, setting up shipping or arranging an in person meet. All these things take time and can cost money as well.

Gamestop provides the convenience of letting anyone come down and sell any game with no cost (aside from your own transport) and then they turn around and sell that game for a price the market will bear. It's like a consignment store, without the consignment. Instead of waiting for another customer to buy your clothes, they purchase them from you outright.

In the end, it really doesn't matter what you or game devs think, but second hand sales have been around forever and will be around forever and the video game industry does not need nor deserve special protections from the second hand market.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but there's only one way to combat used sales and piracy: make your product more attractive to buy new. Whether that's buy offering deluxe editions, special packaging, special downloads, collectible figures, vouchers for future purchases or whatever, that's up to the publisher/manufacturer. Bottom line is, you have to make people want your product. If you product doesn't have a perceived value that matches the asking price, people won't buy it.