Oculus Claims it "Isn't Making Any Money" on $599 Rift

Rattja

New member
Dec 4, 2012
452
0
0
mad825 said:
Rattja said:
Personally I don't find the price to be all that bad, especially when you stop to consider how cutting edge tech tends to work out.
Nothing that is of decent quality and brand new is ever cheap. Computers was not, nor was smartphones, so why should this be any different?
I also believe that as the years go by and we get better at this, cheaper versions will start to pop up.

Also, having tried the thing and understanding some the possibilities it offers (the 3d drawing looks very appealing to me) I see it as more than just another screen thing or a simple addition, it's something else entierly. It allows you to do things no other screen could ever do, and that to me is worth the price of a console or a cheap PC. Wether or not developers will manage to use that potential remains to be seen, but I have faith in this.

Also compared to things like the newest Iphone, it is really not that bad, and lord knows those things sell.
the comparison is bad, bad is the comparison.

Oculus was funded by the public and then got a huge investment boost from Facebook. One should expect them subsiding some of the manufacturing costs (or at least free fucking delivery), I dunno what they spent all that money on but it all for sure go on Oculus.

The high price point for most new tech is so that companies can gain back some of the investment costs (R&D) for the product.
All the public founders gets it for free right? So that does not really have anything to do with the people that did not invest. As for Facebook, I don't really see the difference between that and any other tech development. Anything that gets developed is backed by something, they don't do it for free.

All in all, this thing is like a brand new type of TV or something, so its no surprise it is in the same price range as one.
 

sonicneedslovetoo

New member
Jul 6, 2015
278
0
0
HUH, not making any money at all off of it, insane system requirements, not supporting SLI so far as I can tell. I wonder if there was something in the package that you could I dunno TAKE OUT THAT IS COSTING YOU MONEY. I DUNNO MAYBE THE GODDAMN XBOX CONTROLLER? I already have a controller that works with this stuff having an extra doesn't appeal to me as I already have enough controllers.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
Legacy
Jul 15, 2013
4,953
6
13
Don't know if anybody knows, but this is the exact excuse tax avoiding companies use for not paying corporation tax when found out and enquired upon. Considering they are under the wing of facebook, another well known tax dodger, it all seems ever more suspect.
Anyhow, i couldn't care less about VR, i'd rather be aware if someone was robbing or about to murder me while i was gaming.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
19,316
0
0
Cowabungaa said:
And it also made an important point that's missing in the original article, namely what you actually get for that $599:

- The goggles themselves.
- An audio device.
- An Xbox One controller.
- A media remote.
- Two games.

Now whether you want all the extras is a good question, but it does explain the package price. Detract the audio device, controller, media remote and the games and I don't think it's unreasonable to see the price of the goggles themselves as about $400-450. And that can, I think, be called in the 'ballpark of $350.'

In the end it's a piece of early adopter tech, and TB's comparison to stuff like 4k screens seems apt. Relax folks, nothing out of the ordinary here.
sonicneedslovetoo said:
HUH, not making any money at all off of it, insane system requirements, not supporting SLI so far as I can tell. I wonder if there was something in the package that you could I dunno TAKE OUT THAT IS COSTING YOU MONEY. I DUNNO MAYBE THE GODDAMN XBOX CONTROLLER? I already have a controller that works with this stuff having an extra doesn't appeal to me as I already have enough controllers.
Is reading the OP really turning into a lost art again?

Steven Bogos said:
"To be perfectly clear, we don't make money on the Rift," wrote Luckey. "The Xbox controller costs us almost nothing to bundle, and people can easily resell it for profit. A lot of people wish we would sell a bundle without 'useless extras' like high-end audio, a carrying case, the bundled games, etc, but those just don't significantly impact the cost."
Comment on that if you so desire, but it's right there. Read the OP before commenting!
 

Cowabungaa

New member
Feb 10, 2008
10,806
0
0
lacktheknack said:
Is reading the OP really turning into a lost art again?
I don't know why I missed that. All the studying must be getting to me, preparing and doing exams for about a month and a half straight really fries the brain. Oh well, I'll edit the post.

Maybe the OP title might include "$599 Rift package" instead of "$599 Rift" though but eh, details.
 

hermes

New member
Mar 2, 2009
3,865
0
0
Dornedas said:
Ah yes they don't make any money.
And because they are so committed to not making any money they decide to charge over 100$ more if you live in Europe.
You may want to thank your politicians for that.

A lot of countries have regulations that charge a lot of tax money to import goods with components that are not from within their borders. In order to loophole that, many multinationals have small factories in some key markets to produce some specific component or provide some raw materials. It doesn't matter if it would be cheaper (or better) in another place, if it is a relatively unimportant component or even if a small fraction of the components are built there (with much larger factories somewhere else handling most of the demand)... just by having a part of the final product coming from the country, they avoid having to pay import taxes. That is how Microsoft was able to sell the XBox One at over a $150 price difference with the PS4 in Brazil.

So, yeah... not saying the didn't miss the ball with the final pricing of they Oculus (despite not being that surprised myself), but they are not seeing those extra $100 in Europe, local government agencies are.
 

mad825

New member
Mar 28, 2010
3,379
0
0
Rattja said:
All the public founders gets it for free right? So that does not really have anything to do with the people that did not invest.
Bedsides the point, the Kickstarter was meant to cover the start-up and R&D cost.

As for Facebook, I don't really see the difference between that and any other tech development. Anything that gets developed is backed by something, they don't do it for free.

All in all, this thing is like a brand new type of TV or something, so its no surprise it is in the same price range as one.
...You know like, Facebook is merely a website and doesn't have any electronic and main programming experience. They just threw money at a subsidiary company and hoped for the best.

Hardly comparable to LG, Samsung, Acer,IBM, Intel, AMD/ATI or Nvida. Who have their own patents and technological departments filled to the brim with mathematicians, engineers and programmers with degrees or with no less than years of experience.

No. There isn't any difference. I suppose you could say "All in all, this thing is like a brand new type of TV or something" from a marketing point of view but that in itself is disingenuous.
 

tacotrainwreck

New member
Sep 15, 2011
312
0
0
Yup. I think you nailed it as a tech gimmick. On that note, Mr. Luckey's next project is going to be the world's biggest ballpark...
 

Metadigital

New member
May 5, 2014
103
0
0
Whenever a business in the US reassures people that they're not making money, you can be 100% sure that they are lying. Unless they disappear the next day that is.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
If the price isn't significantly impacted, then let us decide. If it's $50 then that's something someone who has their own controller, earphones, and doesn't care about the games gets to spend on other stuff.

What if it's $100 or more?

There's something they're not telling us, and so I wait. The price isn't necessarily bad. I just don't like companies telling me that I should trust that they're giving me a good deal without giving me specifics. If it is really that compelling, then when given the option between a basic headset without audio/controller/remote/games wouldn't be the one we'd go for anyways.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
Metadigital said:
Whenever a business in the US reassures people that they're not making money, you can be 100% sure that they are lying. Unless they disappear the next day that is.
Not true. Companies regularly release hardware at or even below cost in hopes of obtaining future revenue from this earlier investment cost. For example, the ps3 was sold at massive losses because they hoped to make those losses up in other revenue sources and once the cost of the hardware diminished to below the price tag.

For this to be possible, the company either needs to have alternate revenue sources, be quickly successful in obtaining money from other sources the product provides, or to have large cash reserves.

That's something both Facebook and Sony have in common. The only problem is that I don't see how Facebook stands to profit on this eventually. Is it possible that they're just producing cool tech at cost? If so, worst $2 billion dollar investment ever...

But right now, if they're selling it at cost then they might be considering this a marketing cost of business entry since everyone else is releasing their products now too.
 

Rattja

New member
Dec 4, 2012
452
0
0
mad825 said:
Rattja said:
All the public founders gets it for free right? So that does not really have anything to do with the people that did not invest.
Bedsides the point, the Kickstarter was meant to cover the start-up and R&D cost.
It was meant for that yes, but I really don't see 2.5 millions covering that with a solid quality product as a result, not even close.

mad825 said:
As for Facebook, I don't really see the difference between that and any other tech development. Anything that gets developed is backed by something, they don't do it for free.

All in all, this thing is like a brand new type of TV or something, so its no surprise it is in the same price range as one.
...You know like, Facebook is merely a website and doesn't have any electronic and main programming experience. They just threw money at a subsidiary company and hoped for the best.

Hardly comparable to LG, Samsung, Acer,IBM, Intel, AMD/ATI or Nvida. Who have their own patents and technological departments filled to the brim with mathematicians, engineers and programmers with degrees or with no less than years of experience.
Yes I do know Facebook is just a website and do not have the experience in developing this thing, but they are not doing that either, they are investors in it, or Mark is, or they own it, look it does not really matter. Point is that it is still Oculus that are making it, so there is no need for anyone investing in it to even know how it works, just like the public backers don't need to know how to make it.

Comparing it to any of those you just did does not work either, as all of them have been around for years and can fund themselves on their previous work and experience. Oculus on the other hand is new, and thus need the money and support from others.
Also, if you are going to run comparisons, at least do it with someone that does the same thing, as none of those makes VR.
So you could then compare it to Sony and HTC/Valve, but then those two have their own moneybag and experience to draw from.
It would be interesting to know what development costs they are operating with though, for comparisons sake.
 

Naldan

You Are Interested. Certainly.
Feb 25, 2015
488
0
0
It doesn't matter that you get with Occulus this and that in a package.
It doesn't matter that it is top-notch.
It doesn't matter that you could compare it to 4k monitors and come to a more or less reasonable price.
It doesn't even matter that you'd need a high-end PC to run it smoothly.

It's too expensive. If it really takes this much money to make it feasable for facebook, then it simply isn't the time yet. Provided they don't have a 200% profit margin on it either.

Even if it's justified, it's too expensive. Basta.
 

stormtrooper9091

New member
Jun 2, 2010
506
0
0
That price tag is probably to make them break even after wasting a shit ton of money marketing that thing as the Jesus of technology
 

Callate

New member
Dec 5, 2008
5,118
0
0
I suspect he's telling the truth. Unfortunately, it may not matter. Five hundred dollars is the breaking point for a lot of people; even if the Rift worked on its own, rather than needing to be plugged into a fairly high-end PC, that's more money than anyone is asking for a console right now. (Never mind that the consoles are also probably selling at a loss.)

It might well be that it would make more sense to compare the OR to a high-end television than a console, at which point the price comparison becomes more favorable, and they might well try to spin things that way. But I don't think that's the comparison that will stick in a lot of people's minds.

This much I will say: they need to get VR-demoing kiosks set up, now. In every mall, every Costco, and every major electronics big-box. If there's one thing that everyone seems to agree about, it's that no article or screen shot can really instill in someone a sense of what it's like to personally experience this generation of VR. Well, they need to get that experience out there, and now, before the major idea associated with the tech is that it's just too expensive.
 

Rednog

New member
Nov 3, 2008
3,567
0
0
It's of those things that I usually chalk up to "oh it's expensive for early adopters".
But really why would people early adopt this? The facebook buyout should've subsidized some costs and got either a lower price to drive more buyers so that there would actually be more supported games, or they should've put money out there to get developers to support the rift.
As it stands it really isn't much more than a few hours of fun. I'm sure if successful it'll be worth getting one 5 years down the line, but as of right now it really doesn't feel like being an early adopter will really give you much beside a flashy new toy.
 

SpydersByte

New member
Nov 4, 2011
7
0
0
I was really looking forward to OR but after the merge with Facebook, the addition of a useless Xbox controller, and the ridiculous price, I can't say I'll be purchasing it. I'll wait for Sony to launch it's own headset and the price to go down, then I'll pick up the better of the two. I was just reading another article on the OR price and I noticed a very sensible comment, so I'm going to paste it below. Honestly this is the most reasonable thing I've read on this issue. I think it heads the nail right on the head, so give it a read:

"I think many people argue in different camps. Your argument is against VR getting main stream adoption, which was never the plan. Many industry analysts, the big 3 distributors and developers who are actually working with VR are expecting 2019 or 2020 to be the year VR is going to get really big.

There is a quite well understood sales curve how new technology is introduced to the market.

-First you need the innovators (~2% of the market, this is what they did with DK1 and DK2)
-then you need the early adopters, which is roughly 13% of the market, this is where we are at right now. That's why the 6% Green man gaming (assuming this is the target audience, which it is not) is actually a very good number, combine that with Vive and PSVR and you are good to go on Early Adopters
-after that is the Early Majority (another 34%) which will not only consist of gamers but every other field as well (we see that already in medicine, architecture etc). Those will probably come with the second generation of VR headsets (~2018)
-next is the Late Majority (another 34%) coming with the third generation, because everyone who has a 2nd gen VR set will sell it for cheap to this late majority to be able to buy a 3nd gen headset (~2020)

Because the VR "Hype" was so big, many people believe we are already at the stage for the early majority to join the game, which will absolutely not be the case.

VR is at the first gen iPhone, high End TV spectrum but many people compare it to consoles. This is much more a perception problem then one that suggest how healthy the VR market will be. It didn't help that Oculus' "official" statement was "ballpark 350$" and then not talking about it at all. I feel like they could've managed expectations better but if their twitter accounts are any indication they seem to be doing just fine on sales :) "

I think he's 100% correct. We've heard about the OR for so long it seems like we should be in the "early majority" phase but honestly we aren't. It's a simple as that.
 

FillerDmon

New member
Jun 6, 2014
329
0
0
I've been trying to think of a way to respond to some of the more ignorant comments being made. Because I was with them for a bit, immediately writing off the Rift at first because I didn't know any better. But then I read the actual post; the snipit from the OP is basically just the foot of the issue.

So rather than just make a snappy remark or try to explain it myself, I think I'll quote the bulk of one of his responses.

"I handled the messaging poorly. Earlier last year, we started officially messaging that the Rift+Recommended spec PC would cost roughly $1500. That was around the time we committed to the path of prioritizing quality over cost, trying to make the best VR headset possible with current technology. Many outlets picked the story up as ?Rift will cost $1500!?, which was honestly a good thing - the vast majority of consumers (and even gamers!) don?t have a PC anywhere close to the rec. spec, and many people were confused enough to think the Rift was a standalone device. For that vast majority of people, $1500 is the all-in cost of owning Rift. The biggest portion of their cost is the PC, not the Rift itself.

For gamers that already have high end GPUs, the equation is obviously different. In a September interview, during the Oculus Connect developer conference, I made the infamous ?roughly in that $350 ballpark, but it will cost more than that? quote. As an explanation, not an excuse: during that time, many outlets were repeating the ?Rift is $1500!? line, and I was frustrated by how many people thought that was the price of the headset itself. My answer was ill-prepared, and mentally, I was contrasting $349 with $1500, not our internal estimate that hovered close to $599 - that is why I said it was in roughly the same ballpark. Later on, I tried to get across that the Rift would cost more than many expected, in the past two weeks particularly. There are a lot of reasons we did not do a better job of prepping people who already have high end GPUs, legal, financial, competitive, and otherwise, but to be perfectly honest, our biggest failing was assuming we had been clear enough about setting expectations. Another problem is that people looked at the much less advanced technology in DK2 for $350 and assumed the consumer Rift would cost a similar amount, an assumption that myself (and Oculus) did not do a good job of fixing. I apologize.

To be perfectly clear, we don?t make money on the Rift. The Xbox controller costs us almost nothing to bundle, and people can easily resell it for profit. A lot of people wish we would sell a bundle without ?useless extras? like high-end audio, a carrying case, the bundled games, etc, but those just don?t significantly impact the cost. The core technology in the Rift is the main driver - two built-for-VR OLED displays with very high refresh rate and pixel density, a very precise tracking system, mechanical adjustment systems that must be lightweight, durable, and precise, and cutting-edge optics that are more complex to manufacture than many high end DSLR lenses. It is expensive, but for the $599 you spend, you get a lot more than spending $599 on pretty much any other consumer electronics devices - phones that cost $599 cost a fraction of that to make, same with mid-range TVs that cost $599. There are a lot of mainstream devices in that price-range, so as you have said, our failing was in communication, not just price."

That... actually explained enough to change my mind quite a bit. I wonder why the op doesn't mention him trying to note that he explained the pricing issues apparently a while ago, and not just justifying what looks like a last minute price spike.