Odd things that annoy you from bad works of fiction

Pirate Of PC Master race

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Queen Michael said:
You're right on several counts, mate. It is indeed annoying, and it is indeed a language thing. In some ways, Japanese is a way more gender-neutral language than English. You can listen to two people talk about somebody called "Takahashi-san" for half an hour, and still have no idea of the person's gender. Obviously, this can put the translator in a pickle. A character will say something like "I don't think that person would want this..." The translator needs to answer these questions:

1. Did the original writer want to keep the person's gender a secret, or is it just hidden because the Japanese language doesn't automatically reveal gender?
2. Is there a way to make a gender-neutral phrasing sound natural? (After all, nobody ever says "that person" in daily conversation. And using "they" about a man whose gender both parties know about seems weird.)
If my understanding of Japanese is correct, there is a word equivalent of "him/her" but completely gender neutral in japanese.
Blame english for lack of such words, other than "Schle" from Futurama.
Other than that praise to be to the translators for what I could consider as "completely faithful" translation.


Back to the OT,
Complete disregard towards its own rules of their world.
Sure, you can kill every villeins with your sheer willpower and friendship.(assuming that this occurs multiple times)
Or summon giant effing robot from nowhere and etc.(assuming that this occurs multiple times)

What I resent is:
Quiet iconic "Screw the rules I got money"
Bending the rules so twist is completely surprise. Not "clever lawyer bending the rules last minute to screw with everything" surprise but "blackjack to the noggin" surprise.
 

Fox12

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Jun 6, 2013
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Any film that does this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJVsS-vIDdc
https://youtu.be/nRcFxGxNgIA?t=1m5s
https://youtu.be/FixGtngBdhE?t=46s

With this being the absolute worst offender I've ever seen in any work of fiction
https://youtu.be/z79eI_DjEpg?t=18s


I've probably complained about this before, but that's not how battles were fought. People didn't just form a mosh pit until everyone was dead. They kept formations and lines. I don't expect film makers to be experts on medieval military strategy, but this is embarrassing.

For reference, these scenes were at least moderately realistic:

https://youtu.be/HdNn5TZu6R8?t=2m7s
https://youtu.be/rMhVh6edP_k?t=35s

There was a lot of pushing.
 

RedDeadFred

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Arrow is kind of a guilty pleasure show for me. Although, lately, it's been significantly less pleasure. Anyway, since the beginning, they've always relied on the liar revealed story mechanic. This can be effective when it's done effectively (Breaking Bad), but for the most part, it's really fucking awful. Arrow has done this so many times that I really have lost track. It's always the same lies too "I didn't want you to get hurt." Idiot, you fucking help these same select people out all the time, villains aren't going to care who you really are, they're still going to know who you care about. That's the cliche one that so many super hero stories use though, so I guess I won't fault them as much for that. The biggest one for me was: "don't tell anyone about your son or you'll never see him again." He hides it from his wife to be, she finds out, she divorces him. Holy shit, just tell her! You think she's going to say "haha fucker, I'm going to go rat you out so that you never see this kid again"?

Edit: I suppose this isn't particularly odd, but realism quirks have never bothered me in movies.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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AccursedTheory said:
Grimnar actually has a pretty good chance to stay dead. Ragnar Blackmane, while not quite the fan favorite that Grimnar is, is still well liked, and there are probably a dozen books hinting at his rise to Chapter Master. This seems like a good a time as any to make the switch. I just hope Grimnar gets a proper send off, and not a 'He ded' line somewhere in a text block.
The problem is that they just redid the Grimnar model before this new campaign. If they were planning on killing him off, they wouldn't have bothered. They'd have waited for the campaign to finish, then release Great Wolf Blackmane.

That's kinda' part of the problem. They've already tipped their hands with the new models.
 

Bob_McMillan

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The Star Wars prequels. The idea that three million clones can fight a war on a galactic scale against trillions of droids is ridiculous. I blame Karen Traviss.
 

Queen Michael

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Pirate Of PC Master race said:
Queen Michael said:
You're right on several counts, mate. It is indeed annoying, and it is indeed a language thing. In some ways, Japanese is a way more gender-neutral language than English. You can listen to two people talk about somebody called "Takahashi-san" for half an hour, and still have no idea of the person's gender. Obviously, this can put the translator in a pickle. A character will say something like "I don't think that person would want this..." The translator needs to answer these questions:

1. Did the original writer want to keep the person's gender a secret, or is it just hidden because the Japanese language doesn't automatically reveal gender?
2. Is there a way to make a gender-neutral phrasing sound natural? (After all, nobody ever says "that person" in daily conversation. And using "they" about a man whose gender both parties know about seems weird.)
If my understanding of Japanese is correct, there is a word equivalent of "him/her" but completely gender neutral in japanese.
Blame english for lack of such words, other than "Schle" from Futurama.
Other than that praise to be to the translators for what I could consider as "completely faithful" translation.
Translators of manga keep forgetting that tone is a thing, and if you're making something sound awkward then you're not actually being faithful to the original.
 

ninja51

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Fox12 said:
Any film that does this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJVsS-vIDdc
https://youtu.be/nRcFxGxNgIA?t=1m5s
https://youtu.be/FixGtngBdhE?t=46s

With this being the absolute worst offender I've ever seen in any work of fiction
https://youtu.be/z79eI_DjEpg?t=18s


I've probably complained about this before, but that's not how battles were fought. People didn't just form a mosh pit until everyone was dead. They kept formations and lines. I don't expect film makers to be experts on medieval military strategy, but this is embarrassing.

For reference, these scenes were at least moderately realistic:

https://youtu.be/HdNn5TZu6R8?t=2m7s
https://youtu.be/rMhVh6edP_k?t=35s
There was a lot of pushing.
Thanks for posting all of those, it was a fun little reminder of those movies, some cool fights, and as you mentioned, how goofy a battle can seem when seemingly from the back to the front of any battle, there are individual fights and members of all sides on, well, ALL SIDES!

As for me, when watching a lot of anime, I am annoyed beyond belief when the first episode or two is a boring cavalcade of characters being introduced, often with still frames or text beneath their face (or both). These characters often don't hang around those episodes for more than 4 minutes while their being introduced, generally with their ONE character trait being the only thing they do.

I've seen so many archetypes and many animes attempt to present the same archetype, doing nothing more than showing it off with a new name, moving past it, and ASSUMING you fucking loved the entire 4 minutes, were laughing your ass off, and now care a SHIT TON about the character. Then they move on to the next.

I just can't stand when a story introduces characters serving largely no purpose, and ASSUMES you will just keep watching for the next 24 episodes without ever earning your time. I mean, maybe anime just thinks they can get away with NOT selling you on their show. I've got an Otaku friend who eats up some fucking shit anime till hes done and just seems to love whatever non-engaging feces he's fed. Mad respect to the man for everything else though haha

Its your first episode! Sell the people on your show! Don't waste time with fucking NOBODIES! The original anime "Berserk" did it right all the way. First episode sells you on the show's themes and tone. From then on its unclear if the first episode is the future, an alternate timeline, or unrelated at all. They pull it off like no other could though
 

The Madman

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The over-use and over-reliance on plot twist to make a story 'compelling'. Not every story needs to be some labyrinthine monstrosity of dozens of overlapping plot threads each rife with dozens of twists and turns and so called shocking reveals. I struggle to count the number of movies, books, games and shows which have lost my interest by allowing themselves to become so entangled within themselves, so reliant on shock and awe to hold interest, that it's only managed to do the opposite by making me lose interest instead.

And yet there are people out there, a great many, who defend this idiotic practice and indeed measure the quality of a story based on its number of 'twists'.

Sometimes simple just works and not everything needs to be complicated.
 

Queen Michael

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The novel Modelland by Tyra Banks is the worst YA novel ever. It's got all the typical signs of a novel by an amateur who doesn't know what she's doing. Poor world-building. An unintentionally unsympahetic heroine. Plot holes you could drive the entire convoy from Independence Day through. But one thing that bugs me a lot with it is the one trait of the protagonist that's actually sympathetic. It's the way she's friends with a homeless, self-harming girl. It's so blatant in the way it tries to make an otherwise selfish and uncaring person seem nice.
 

Dalisclock

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Zontar said:
Bad works of fiction often make those who consume them become annoyed at one thing or another, but sometimes those things are not exactly what you'd expect. What are some of the odd things that annoyed you when consuming bad works of fiction?

For me, when (trying) to watch GATE, one thing that really annoyed me (in particular, that show was unwatchable) was the ranks and ages just not matching up at all. The protagonist is a 33 year old who due to what happened in the first episode got promoted to Second Lieutenant from Warrant Officer. This is quite odd to see because other episodes make it clear he has been in the force for more then 1-3 years and that is basically how long it takes to get that promotion just by virtue of existing.

Then there are his subordinates. There's Sergeant First Class Akira who has the opposite problem: he's only 27 yet has a job that'll take a good 15 years to reach in rank. This is bad but the one that really took the case was Sergeant Takeo, a 21 year old doing a job that takes a good bloody 9-12 years to reach. Given what was shown in the series, I don't for a second believe he was fast tracked through the ranks due to his abilities.

Given the long, long, loooooooooooooooooooong list of problems that show has from the atrocious animation outside of fight scenes, downright garbage story, lazy framing shots and everything that isn't bad being boring, it's odd how much of an annoyance this one subject had for me.
Yeah, having spent time in the military, it becomes really, really hard to watch any military related fiction just because it quickly becomes apparent how little research is done. Ranks not making sense, Armies/Navies using battle tactics that might have been acceptable 100 years ago, but not in the modern era, equipment not matching up, military people being able to just wander off and do what they want whenever they want.
 

Dalisclock

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Bob_McMillan said:
The Star Wars prequels. The idea that three million clones can fight a war on a galactic scale against trillions of droids is ridiculous. I blame Karen Traviss.
Lucas doesn't know shit about how wars actually work. If he did, Return of the Jedi would have ended with Imperial Victory because there is no competent Army in the Universe that would have let the rebels get near the shield generator on Endor. When a legion of your "best troops" can't guard a door from stone age teddy bears effectively, you don't deserve to be considered an army.

Despite it's flaws, I was actually kind of impressed in The Force Awakens when the Imperials had finally figured out they can call in Air Strikes. You know, after 6 movies and three generations.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Dalisclock said:
Bob_McMillan said:
The Star Wars prequels. The idea that three million clones can fight a war on a galactic scale against trillions of droids is ridiculous. I blame Karen Traviss.
Lucas doesn't know shit about how wars actually work. If he did, Return of the Jedi would have ended with Imperial Victory because there is no competent Army in the Universe that would have let the rebels get near the shield generator on Endor. When a legion of your "best troops" can't guard a door from stone age teddy bears effectively, you don't deserve to be considered an army.
But then how would they sell toys? Think of the children!
 

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AccursedTheory said:
Realized I never answered the original question.

In general, my most hated fiction device is 'Conflict through misunderstanding,' whether it be comedic or dramatic. If the only reason conflict is happening is a fundamental inability to use a shared language to communicate (Obviously doesn't cover situations where it makes sense, like people who speak different languages), then your conflict is lame and stupid.
I'd prefer misunderstandings then the world domination tabs guy troupe. Hitler is as one of the most evil men in the world yet he didn't really want to go past Europe. He didn't want to deal with 'lesser beings' like the Italians, let alone most Asians. Most tyrants like this want to conquer, but usually specific areas, not the whole world
 

Trunkage

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Dalisclock said:
Bob_McMillan said:
The Star Wars prequels. The idea that three million clones can fight a war on a galactic scale against trillions of droids is ridiculous. I blame Karen Traviss.
Lucas doesn't know shit about how wars actually work. If he did, Return of the Jedi would have ended with Imperial Victory because there is no competent Army in the Universe that would have let the rebels get near the shield generator on Endor. When a legion of your "best troops" can't guard a door from stone age teddy bears effectively, you don't deserve to be considered an army.

Despite it's flaws, I was actually kind of impressed in The Force Awakens when the Imperials had finally figured out they can call in Air Strikes. You know, after 6 movies and three generations.
But it's a trap!
 

Queen Michael

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AccursedTheory said:
Realized I never answered the original question.

In general, my most hated fiction device is 'Conflict through misunderstanding,' whether it be comedic or dramatic. If the only reason conflict is happening is a fundamental inability to use a shared language to communicate (Obviously doesn't cover situations where it makes sense, like people who speak different languages), then your conflict is lame and stupid.
Oh gods yes, I loathe that trope.

There was this one time when a girl I was in love with asked me if I was mad at her. When I said I wasn't and asked why she'd think that, she said "Good," and tried to leave. "Hey," I said, "I guess it's resolved to you now, but if you don't tell me what gave you that impression then I won't be able to stop misunderstandings in the future!" So she explained what it was. We solved things by using words.
 

The Bucket

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Bob_McMillan said:
The Star Wars prequels. The idea that three million clones can fight a war on a galactic scale against trillions of droids is ridiculous. I blame Karen Traviss.
I wouldn't normally defend Traviss's contributions to the Star Wars canon, but after Attack of the Clones gave such a ridiculously low number for the first shipment of clones which had taken years to create (1.1 million I believe) there wasn't any way to bump that up to an actually reasonable number without being contradictory.
 

DrederickTatum

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Cliche expressions always annoy me and make me groan.

"We got company!" Character opens fire.

"I'm getting too old for this." Character opens fire.

etc.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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The main general things I get touchy about in bad works of fiction are usually the same. 1. Poorly written characters who do or say things that are entirely inconsistent within the character's own structure - almost always for the sake of furthering or delivering plot, which is an indicator of a weak plot with plenty of holes if you have to have it done in such a way just to make things work. 2. Plot holes - the big huge gaping kind that are obvious and must be hand-waved constantly. 3. Tiny plot holes that would have been simple to fix but laziness obviously happened.

Basically the things that make a bad story bad are the things that annoy me about a bad fiction.
 

Kalikin

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balladbird said:
[...]I don't know if it's a language thing[...]
From someone who studied Japanese for six years at university: yes, it's a language thing.

In the first case, it's stylistically unusual to refer to someone as "him/her" in Japanese; you would usually refer to someone by name even if you're speaking directly to them. Ambiguous phrases like, "that person," aren't out of place at all, either. In fiction, at least, it's not unusual to have a wife refer to her husband as, "that person."
Aside from the fact that no-one speaks like that in English, one of the major reasons you will find it sticking out is that in English dubs the voice actors have a habit of signposting that they're being intentionally vague by stressing the phrase, where they should just keep calm and let it slide as a natural part of the dialogue.

In the second case, that's because Japanese sentence structure puts a lot of what you might think of as important information in English right at the end of the sentence. It's actually extremely common for characters in Japanese fiction to just drop verb structures from their sentences because the meaning is obvious (in Japanese) without them. Again, one reason why this feature of Japanese is jumping out at you is that translators tend to just gloss over these kinds of speech habits unless it's vitally important, such as in the examples you've provided - restricting information from first-time viewers/readers or maintaining suspense. In translation this gives the impression that it's something that is only trotted in those few instances, and thus gets labelled unfairly as a feature of bad writing.


Queen Michael said:
Translators of manga keep forgetting that tone is a thing, and if you're making something sound awkward then you're not actually being faithful to the original.
You may want to look into Lawrence Venuti's concept of the "invisible translator." In short, translations that assimilate the source language on the basis of target language fluency give the impression that the translator has somehow "tapped in" to the "essence" of the source text, and therefore give the translator authority to speak for the source text author... except such assimilation inevitably represents the source text poorly.
 

Dalisclock

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As I've mentioned above, two things tend to stick in my craw with fiction.

-Military Portrayals by people who have never actually been in the military and/or bothered to do the research. When you can't even get basic ranks right(Hint: A Naval Officer should never be referred to as "Sergent"), just give up and write something else. Or, you know, read the fucking wikipedia article on basic rank structure for the branch you're showcasing.

-Nuclear Power....pretty much anything. If your nuclear power plant explodes(and it's not a special type of reactor like Liquid sodium), go back and actually read up on how that shit works. Because reactors don't explode. Worst case scenario, they melt. It's called MELTDOWN for a reason. Also, if your reactor has no safeties or cannot be easily shut down, there had better be a damn good reason(like it was operated by Umbrella or something).

This probably has nothing to do with my last job being a Reactor Technician in the US Military.

BTW, CRYSIS, You are so grounded. You failed miserably on both of these.