Oh World of WoWCraft Lore...how have you fallen, so?

RJ 17

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Nov 27, 2011
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I write this as a final lamentation of the loss of WarCraft's story. What used to be the primary reason I was interested in the franchise has been twisted and mutated to something that is nigh unrecognizable at this point. Driven to madness by Blizzard's incessant need retcon over and over again for the sake of dragging things out even further, it is here that I lay thee to rest.

I picked up vanilla WoW when it launched because Frozen Throne left a lot of dangling plot threads that I hoped to see resolved. Well vanilla didn't deliver on any of those, instead choosing to go for random adventures in the land of Azeroth, culminating with fighting a giant fire god, a couple of black dragons, Kel'Thuzad, and a tentacle monster.

But what ho! Burning Crusade is on the horizon! We finally get to see what has become of Illidan! Awesome! At long last we'll get to put The Betrayer in his place! And we did just that: storming his Black Temple, we smote his ruin upon the summit! Now we just have to take out the Mad Prince Kael'thas and all will be well! But what's this? Kil'Jaeden?! Alright! Fighting another one of the leaders of the Legion! Those demonic pricks are still up to no good!

And after Outland was liberated, we turn our gaze to the north! Arthas, the Lich King, must still be dealt with! And so to the frozen north we sailed, battling the undead as we pushed towards the bleak, foreboding walls of the fortress at Icecrown. At long last we would dethrone the Lich King and finally bring an end to the accursed Scourge!

That just about wraps up all the major villains from the past, surely now we can have one final conflict against the Legion to topple the Mad Titan Sargeras and bring a close to this epic story!

But no! No says Blizzard! First you must fight Deathwing!
"But...but wasn't Deathwing on Draenor when it kerploded, leaving him stranded on that broken world with absolutely no means of returning?"
Nope! He's been hibernating deep beneath the surface of Azeroth, waiting for his moment to strike!
"But at the end of Beyond the Dark Portal, Ner'zhul used the Skull of Gul'dan to open numerous Dark Portals to other worlds, ultimately creating an energy vortex that ripped the world asunder and destroyed the portals themselves. How did Deathwing get back to Azeroth?"
Fuck you, that's how! Now go and fight the great black beast, but along the way we're going to introduce you to the Old Gods and their masters, the Void Lords!
"Wait...what? What's this all about?"
Yes, the Old Gods and Void Lords. They're the ones that were responsible for Deathwing's madness all along. They're the ones that made him betray the other flights, it most definitely wasn't because he coveted power over all the other dragons and wanted to stand as their unconstested ruler.
"But...that's not what you said in WCII...."
Shut up, don't worry about that.

"Well...ok...now that Deathwing's been dealt with, surely NOW we get to take down the Legion once and for all, right?"
Nope! Now it's time for a filler arch! Remember that April Fools joke from BC where we said that we were going to add Pandaren as a playable race? Well we're actually going to do it this time!
"Wait...what? What do the Pandaren have to do with anything?"
Dunno, we'll slap some shit about another Old God in there. Doesn't really matter, it's just a filler story to lead us to...well...another filler story, actually.
"......you really have no clue what you're doing with this franchise's story, do you?"
Of course we do! That's why we're going to come out with Warlords of Draenor! An entire expansion whose only purpose is to bring Gul'dan back into the story! THEN you get to have your final showdown with the Legion!

"Well ok. Took us a while to get here but we can finally end the ultimate threat to the cosmos once and for all!"
Well actually no...no that won't be happening. You see, Sargeras wasn't the Titan that was put in charge of imprisoning the Legion, which was already running amok through the cosmos, and that spending so many millennia keeping them in check poisoned his mind to the point of unleashing the Legion as his own personal army of wanton destruction.
"But...but that's what you said---"
Nope! Turns out Sargeras actually CREATED the Legion when he saw what the Old Gods and the Void Lords were doing, corrupting everything in the cosmos! You see, he's not the Mad Titan because he went insane by going from the warden of the Legion's prison to being it's leader and using it to destroy everything. He's actually the Mad Titan because he created an army to destroy everything with the philosophy of "better to be destroyed than corrupted!" In reality, the Old Gods and their Void Lord masters are the REAL ultimate threat!
"But...but you just pulled them right out of your ass! The entire franchise has revolved around Sargeras and the Legion!"
No, no. Don't worry about him. In fact, it turns out that Illidan is the golden chosen one cosmic god child---
"---wait, Illidan? We killed him in Burning Crusade! We were literally standing right there when he took his last breath!"
Nope! Don't know what you were smoking, but that's definitely not what happened. No, you just weakened him so that Maiev and her Wardens could show up and imprison him and take him back to the Broken Isles.
"................."
Anyways, Illidan is the almighty chosen one savior who ascends to become something of a cosmic Warden, sealing away Sargeras once and for all, though he may never abandon his post. Isn't that nice? You don't even have to fight Sargeras, Illidan just McGuffin's him away!
"Go home, Blizzard...you're drunk."
Wait! Next expansion we're going back to the tried and true Horde vs Alliance war! But in reality it's going to be The Light vs The Void! We kinda borrowed Anikan's story for Arthas', but now we're going full Star Wars! You see the Light isn't as good as it claims to be!

------

Which brings us to this piece of crap:


Yes, lets forget that Admiral Proudmoore was a warmongering bigot who launched an unprovoked invasion of what was - at the time - a peaceful nation. That the Horde was defending itself against his aggression, to the point that once he was dead the Horde spared all remaining Alliance forces, ceasing their attack and allowing them to retreat back to Kul'Tiras.

No, clearly the Horde savages are to blame for the slaughter that took place that day. There was no blood on the Admiral's hands, and Jaina should have betrayed the peace she had fought so hard for in order to stand by her warmongering father's side.

TL;DR:
Go fuck yourself, Blizzard.

:^)
 

Canadamus Prime

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I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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Canadamus Prime said:
I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
Yep, that would be Warlords of Draenor...the expansion whose entire purpose was to bring one character (Gul'dan) back from the dead and inject him into the story line.
 

ghalleon0915

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This is a funny read to me, as it almost entirely encapsulates how I feel. Played WoW because loved Tides of Darkness and WCIII and wanted to see how they would end it ( my thinking that they were doing this in lieu of WC 4). Emjoyed Vanilla immensely despite its many many flaws and enjoyed the TBC and even Wrath.

I was always in it for the lore ( even got the damn books, some were excellent, a lot were trash...) and the end of Wrath started the downhill spiral for me. I did enjoy parts of Cata, as I am heavily invested in my druid and enjoyed Staghelm's not-so-suprising heel turn but Pandaria definitely killed it for me; that's when I realized that I spent far too much time arguing in my guild forums about the "lore" of Warcraft. Holy smokes, now that I think about it, the late night hours on Vent ( yes, that old thing) was pretty much a discussion on the butchering of the lore. End of Cata was the first time I ever took a break, and that lasted almost 2 years before giving Pandaria a try and just bemused by it. I'm glad I was able to just let go of the story and just play WoW because of the awesome guild I'm in. Although stuff like void Lords and the whole Legion storyline still gets me angry if I don't watch it....

You know that shit's fucked when they start tossing time traveling to an alternate timeline to redeem ( or retcon, you pick) certain characters and having Starcraft bleed into WoW.

Actually you could prolly say the same thing for all their og ip's - all 3 hooked me in with their story and lore, and blizzard just doesn't seem to know how to climax properly, kinda like Bioware. Although I give WoW a bit of a pass because of it being an MMO. Just a bit, mind you.

Same reason I got out of comics; tried to get back into it and was flabbergasted by all the different versions/iterations of my favorite characters. Hell, I thought the entire point of having stuff like Infinite Crisis was to simplify things. But I guess that's what soft reboots are for though; let's have a Crisis every couple of years or so.

PS - I did enjoy the whole Blackest Night/Brightest day arc, and House of M - hell even unworthy Thor was pretty good
 

sXeth

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RJ 17 said:
Canadamus Prime said:
I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
Yep, that would be Warlords of Draenor...the expansion whose entire purpose was to bring one character (Gul'dan) back from the dead and inject him into the story line.
Man, its reaching when you try and make a nostalgia grab from 2 games and a different genre to keep your MMO relevant lol.

I'm guessing they just forgot how to write actual things, so now its just name drops.
 

Hawki

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RJ 17 said:
But no! No says Blizzard! First you must fight Deathwing!
"But...but wasn't Deathwing on Draenor when it kerploded, leaving him stranded on that broken world with absolutely no means of returning?"
Nope! He's been hibernating deep beneath the surface of Azeroth, waiting for his moment to strike!
"But at the end of Beyond the Dark Portal, Ner'zhul used the Skull of Gul'dan to open numerous Dark Portals to other worlds, ultimately creating an energy vortex that ripped the world asunder and destroyed the portals themselves. How did Deathwing get back to Azeroth?"
Fuck you, that's how!
Seriously? You're complaining about Deathwing making it back to Azeroth when not only did numerous other individuals make it back to Azeroth (orcs included), but he was established as having made it back in Day of the Dragon?

Now go and fight the great black beast, but along the way we're going to introduce you to the Old Gods and their masters, the Void Lords!
"Wait...what? What's this all about?"
Yes, the Old Gods and Void Lords. They're the ones that were responsible for Deathwing's madness all along. They're the ones that made him betray the other flights, it most definitely wasn't because he coveted power over all the other dragons and wanted to stand as their unconstested ruler.
"But...that's not what you said in WCII...."
Shut up, don't worry about that.
First of all, the Old Gods were introduced in Warcraft III, so I don't know why they'd suddenly become an issue in Cataclysm. Second of all, the Void Lords weren't introduced into well after Cataclysm. Third of all, Deathwing never had any character in WC2, and there was no backstory given for him beyond "he's a black dragon who's allied with the Horde."

"Well...ok...now that Deathwing's been dealt with, surely NOW we get to take down the Legion once and for all, right?"
Nope! Now it's time for a filler arch! Remember that April Fools joke from BC where we said that we were going to add Pandaren as a playable race? Well we're actually going to do it this time!
"Wait...what? What do the Pandaren have to do with anything?"
Dunno, we'll slap some shit about another Old God in there. Doesn't really matter, it's just a filler story to lead us to...well...another filler story, actually.
"......you really have no clue what you're doing with this franchise's story, do you?"
Of course we do! That's why we're going to come out with Warlords of Draenor! An entire expansion whose only purpose is to bring Gul'dan back into the story! THEN you get to have your final showdown with the Legion!
I can't comment on this too much but I've never understood the negative reaction to the pandaren.

"Well ok. Took us a while to get here but we can finally end the ultimate threat to the cosmos once and for all!"
Well actually no...no that won't be happening. You see, Sargeras wasn't the Titan that was put in charge of imprisoning the Legion, which was already running amok through the cosmos, and that spending so many millennia keeping them in check poisoned his mind to the point of unleashing the Legion as his own personal army of wanton destruction.
"But...but that's what you said---"
Nope! Turns out Sargeras actually CREATED the Legion when he saw what the Old Gods and the Void Lords were doing, corrupting everything in the cosmos! You see, he's not the Mad Titan because he went insane by going from the warden of the Legion's prison to being it's leader and using it to destroy everything. He's actually the Mad Titan because he created an army to destroy everything with the philosophy of "better to be destroyed than corrupted!" In reality, the Old Gods and their Void Lord masters are the REAL ultimate threat!
"But...but you just pulled them right out of your ass! The entire franchise has revolved around Sargeras and the Legion!"
No, no. Don't worry about him. In fact, it turns out that Illidan is the golden chosen one cosmic god child---
"---wait, Illidan? We killed him in Burning Crusade! We were literally standing right there when he took his last breath!"
Nope! Don't know what you were smoking, but that's definitely not what happened. No, you just weakened him so that Maiev and her Wardens could show up and imprison him and take him back to the Broken Isles.
"................."
Anyways, Illidan is the almighty chosen one savior who ascends to become something of a cosmic Warden, sealing away Sargeras once and for all, though he may never abandon his post. Isn't that nice? You don't even have to fight Sargeras, Illidan just McGuffin's him away!
"Go home, Blizzard...you're drunk."
I can sympathize with this mind you.

Wait! Next expansion we're going back to the tried and true Horde vs Alliance war! But in reality it's going to be The Light vs The Void! We kinda borrowed Anikan's story for Arthas', but now we're going full Star Wars! You see the Light isn't as good as it claims to be!
Where was it stated to be Light vs. Void? Also, the idea of the Light (or naaru) isn't that benevolent was established before BFA.

Which brings us to this piece of crap:

Personally I found it beautiful.

Yes, lets forget that Admiral Proudmoore was a warmongering bigot who launched an unprovoked invasion of what was - at the time - a peaceful nation. That the Horde was defending itself against his aggression, to the point that once he was dead the Horde spared all remaining Alliance forces, ceasing their attack and allowing them to retreat back to Kul'Tiras.

No, clearly the Horde savages are to blame for the slaughter that took place that day. There was no blood on the Admiral's hands, and Jaina should have betrayed the peace she had fought so hard for in order to stand by her warmongering father's side.
You...do realize that this is taking from Jaina's POV, right? That in her mindset, she regrets not siding with her father because if she had, Theramore might still be standing? Have you paid any attention to her character development?
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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RJ 17 said:
Canadamus Prime said:
I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
Yep, that would be Warlords of Draenor...the expansion whose entire purpose was to bring one character (Gul'dan) back from the dead and inject him into the story line.
Yeah my friend showed me the intro to that where I think it's Garosh travels back in time and stops the demonic corruption of the horde or something and ends with them building a technology based portal to Azeroth which made no fucking sense.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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A World of Warcraft thread without me?!

Too late for me to respond since all the questions is already taken :(

And dude, Warcraft lore has been inconsitant since Warcraft 1.

They made it canon that the Orcs won the First War, completely nullifying the actions of players who prefered the human campaign.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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And regarding Jaina, this is all part of a character arc that began in Mist of Pandaria.

Garrosh Hellscream, son of Grommash Hellscream, then Warcheif of the Horde, did this to Theramore:


And at the point, Jaina snapped, and from that then one she has had nothing but a hate boner for all the Horde, never mind the past. So much so that she has done this during MOP:


And even after the death of Garrosh she still has a hateboner for the Horde, and in Legion she was then kicked out of the Kirin Tor for refusal to accept the Horde back into Dalaran, WHILE THE WORLD WAS ENDURING THE MOST MASSIVE LEGION INVASION.

Now she has no where to go but back home. And don't take a moral highground Jaina after you slaughtered innocent Blood Elves in Dalaran.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Canadamus Prime said:
RJ 17 said:
Canadamus Prime said:
I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
Yep, that would be Warlords of Draenor...the expansion whose entire purpose was to bring one character (Gul'dan) back from the dead and inject him into the story line.
Yeah my friend showed me the intro to that where I think it's Garosh travels back in time and stops the demonic corruption of the horde or something and ends with them building a technology based portal to Azeroth which made no fucking sense.
Yes Warlords of Draenor was just Garrosh throwing a hissyfit and making his own fanfic version of the Horde with time travel after losing the Siege of Orgrimmar.
 

Abomination

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I did not find Pandaria to be a filler episode, the Legion were not "active" at the time and the Horde and Alliance were in a struggle for resources after Cataclysm. Pandaria served as a pressure cooker to see Garrosh finally snap and engage in what would be considered the modern equivalent of the nuclear option to win his war.

Jaina is broken after Garrosh's atrocities. She is not behaving rationally and that is fine, because she is running on emotion and anger. Her father's death was his own fault but she does not see it that way, now it's a direct emotional connection to the conflict with the Horde and an example of her "letting" it get this bad.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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I always assumed WOW was considered non-canon in a way. I mean who killed Arthas? Was is NoobKillaLEET69? Was is Leroy Jenkins? Was it Falcor, defender of the alliance?
You can't really have a canon, as in a continued singular story in a game where everything resets every 30mins and you can run the same dungeon over and over and over
 

Abomination

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Silentpony said:
I always assumed WOW was considered non-canon in a way. I mean who killed Arthas? Was is NoobKillaLEET69? Was is Leroy Jenkins? Was it Falcor, defender of the alliance?
I'm ashamed I forget the guy's name. It was old paladin dude that died at the start of Legion. He was "assisted" by heroes of his little jousting order he started up in Northrend. According to the lore the Alliance and Horde were too busy tripping over each other to assault the Lich King directly.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Abomination said:
Silentpony said:
I always assumed WOW was considered non-canon in a way. I mean who killed Arthas? Was is NoobKillaLEET69? Was is Leroy Jenkins? Was it Falcor, defender of the alliance?
I'm ashamed I forget the guy's name. It was old paladin dude that died at the start of Legion. He was "assisted" by heroes of his little jousting order he started up in Northrend. According to the lore the Alliance and Horde were too busy tripping over each other to assault the Lich King directly.
Tirion Fordring, he actually shows up during the Lich King fight in Icecrown Citadel.
 

Abomination

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Gordon_4 said:
Abomination said:
Silentpony said:
I always assumed WOW was considered non-canon in a way. I mean who killed Arthas? Was is NoobKillaLEET69? Was is Leroy Jenkins? Was it Falcor, defender of the alliance?
I'm ashamed I forget the guy's name. It was old paladin dude that died at the start of Legion. He was "assisted" by heroes of his little jousting order he started up in Northrend. According to the lore the Alliance and Horde were too busy tripping over each other to assault the Lich King directly.
Tirion Fordring, he actually shows up during the Lich King fight in Icecrown Citadel.
Yeah, that's what I mean. He gets the credit according to the story, even though he spends 99% of the fight in an ice cube.
 

RJ 17

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Nov 27, 2011
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Hawki said:
Regarding Deathwing:
My issue isn't that he made it back, but rather how he made it back.

Regarding Old Gods in WCIII:
Arthas fights a Forgotten One on his way back to Icecrown. To be fair: they then rolled that into being an Old God, but at the time it was just an ancient best that had made it's nest in the old Nerubian kingdom.

Regarding Deathwing in WCII:
In scouring my resources I cannot find anything to support my statement, so fair enough on that regard. However there's nothing that implies he was under the control of the Old Gods either. He and his flight were hanging out in Blackrock Spire, which was currently under assault by the Alliance. By breaking through the Alliance's line and rescuing the Black Flight, you win their favor.

Regarding Pandaria:
MoP was fine in terms of gameplay. The setting was certainly beautiful and fun to explore. However it was representative of stagnation in the story line. In the end, all that happens is that Pandaria gets fucked up by the Alliance vs Horde war, and Garrosh proves what everyone already knew: he's a warmongering fuck-nugget. But here comes a deus ex machina to send him into the past - but not really the past - and bring us WoD.

Regarding Light vs Horde:
To be fair, this one comes from a secondary source. I quit Legion about 5 months after it's launch. A friend that has stuck with WoW the entire time up till now has been drip-feeding details about the new expansion, and apparently there is going to be some kind of Light vs Void faction war along with the standard Horde vs Alliance war.

Regarding Jaina:
Enough to know that she's a hypocritical *****, yes. During Cataclysm she was still waving the flag of neutrality and as such essentially had a protected status from the Horde. Thrall's pact with her was still being upheld. Meanwhile she allowed the Alliance to use Theramore as a military staging ground for a campaign into Kalimdor. A campaign which saw Taurjo sacked before the Alliance turned it's eyes to Mulgore, aiming to take out the Tauren.

By allowing the Alliance to make use of Theramore, Jaina made Theramore a target. Her neutrality was effectively broken. Granted, by this point Garrosh's true nature as a warmongering asshole had been revealed and he wanted to conquer all of Kalimdor, as such it's debatable as to whether or not Theramore would have been sacked if Jaina had not allowed the Alliance to use it as a base of operations. Considering who was currently leading the Horde: chances are it would have been attacked anyway. However not all of the Horde supported this invasion. Baine sent a messenger to Theramore to warn Jaina of the impending attack.

Has she been fucked over countless times throughout the story? Most certainly, however she was also there to witness the events that prove that the Alliance isn't without plenty of blood on it's hands as well. So she's made a scapegoat of the entirety of the Horde when the one that was truly to blame for most of her heartache - Garrosh - was killed...by Thrall, the one with whom she made peace in the first place. An act which displayed that the Horde will not forgive war criminals in their ranks.......

.......except when Sylvanas was named Warchief despite all the shady shit she's been up to, but that's an entirely different can of worms that I take issue with.

Samtemdo8 said:
Yep, I know that she's done gone went crazy by now. My overall point - which probably could have been expressed a bit better - is that she's being completely hypocritical. As I mentioned above: she herself isn't entirely without blame for what happened to Theramore (by allowing the Alliance to use it as a foothold in Kalimdor to launch assaults against the Horde). As such I have little to no sympathy for her anymore, and that video seems made to try and drudge up sympathy for her and serve as justification for her burning hatred.

Personally I think they should have gone with the fan theory that was swirling around before the end of Legion: that she was going to get corrupted by a Dreadlord ("We can give you the power to wipe out the Horde once and for all...if you agree to serve us...") and become an Raid Boss in one of the final raids of Legion.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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^ Regarding Old Gods.

You also have to remember the Old Gods were established in Vanilla WOW with C'thun, and Wrath of the Lich King had Yogg-Saron, and in that fight with Yoggy gave plenty of setup for Deathwing and Catacylsm.

Regarding Jaina:

And to furthur her hypocrisy, in MOP she purged Dalaran of the Sunreaver Blood Elves killing them and imprisoning them, so at this point she's not better then Garrosh and worse no better then Arthas.
 

RJ 17

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Samtemdo8 said:
^ Regarding Old Gods.

You also have to remember the Old Gods were established in Vanilla WOW with C'thun, and Wrath of the Lich King had Yogg-Saron, and in that fight with Yoggy gave plenty of setup for Deathwing and Catacylsm.
Yeah, and that Yogg fight was a right proper bastard of a fight, too. And yeah, I'm aware that C'Thun was the first "official" Old God. My issue with the Old Gods is as I had previously mentioned: throughout the RTS's, the entire story always revolved around Sargeras and his Burning Legion. Ol' Sarge was always heralded as the ultimate big bad of the universe...now he's been retconned into being - in the grand scheme of things - a bump in the road on the path towards the REAL threat: the Void Lords.

Worse still: we didn't even get to face off against Sargeras, he just gets mcguffined away by Kerriga----errrr, I mean Illidan. It's the ending to Legacy of the Void all over again. At least give us a token fight against the Dark Titan, something where you just have to deal (x ludicrous amount of damage) before he unleashes some kind of "Now you're all about to get right proper fucked!" attack and Illidan comes in to save the day. It'd still be cheesy, but it'd be a hell of a lot better than fighting the frickin' planet and having Sarge just get sucked up into a giant Ghostbusters ghost trap.