Oh World of WoWCraft Lore...how have you fallen, so?

Drathnoxis

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I played WoW for a couple months around the time Lich King came out and I've played Warcraft 3 a couple times, but I didn't understand any of that. I never could put in the time to try and understand Warcraft's labyrinthine lore.
 

Ryotknife

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Canadamus Prime said:
RJ 17 said:
Canadamus Prime said:
I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
Yep, that would be Warlords of Draenor...the expansion whose entire purpose was to bring one character (Gul'dan) back from the dead and inject him into the story line.
Yeah my friend showed me the intro to that where I think it's Garosh travels back in time and stops the demonic corruption of the horde or something and ends with them building a technology based portal to Azeroth which made no fucking sense.
technically it was a rogue bronze dragon that did the timetraveling. Garrosh was his accomplice (and then garrosh killed him). As for the technology, Garrosh brought modern (by wow standards) technology with him, specifically the BlackFuse company (which was an mercenary company of goblin engineers/inventors pushing out cutting edge tech)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blackfuse_Company

In WoD, the orcs built the portal (they did build the last one too remember), but this time they used the Shadow Council prisoners to power it with Fel (instead of powering it via draenae prisoners).
 

Ryotknife

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RJ 17 said:
Samtemdo8 said:
^ Regarding Old Gods.

You also have to remember the Old Gods were established in Vanilla WOW with C'thun, and Wrath of the Lich King had Yogg-Saron, and in that fight with Yoggy gave plenty of setup for Deathwing and Catacylsm.
Yeah, and that Yogg fight was a right proper bastard of a fight, too. And yeah, I'm aware that C'Thun was the first "official" Old God. My issue with the Old Gods is as I had previously mentioned: throughout the RTS's, the entire story always revolved around Sargeras and his Burning Legion. Ol' Sarge was always heralded as the ultimate big bad of the universe...now he's been retconned into being - in the grand scheme of things - a bump in the road on the path towards the REAL threat: the Void Lords.

Worse still: we didn't even get to face off against Sargeras, he just gets mcguffined away by Kerriga----errrr, I mean Illidan. It's the ending to Legacy of the Void all over again. At least give us a token fight against the Dark Titan, something where you just have to deal (x ludicrous amount of damage) before he unleashes some kind of "Now you're all about to get right proper fucked!" attack and Illidan comes in to save the day. It'd still be cheesy, but it'd be a hell of a lot better than fighting the frickin' planet and having Sarge just get sucked up into a giant Ghostbusters ghost trap.
To be fair, yes he is a bump in the road compared to the Void Lords. The Burning Legion was created for the sole purpose of opposing the Void Lords. That is their purpose, it is why they going around destroying world-souls on planets so the Void Lords can not corrupt them.

Even the Old Gods, which are just powerful servants of the Void Lords, are more powerful than Sargaras (at least at the height of their power).

As for Illidan being Kerrigan....not really. It was certainly setup that way, until Illidan killed that Naaru who tried to turn him into "the Chosen One." The Big thing Illidan pushed was for people to not put stock in prophecies or the Light but just....fight. Nor did Illidan really do anything to Sargaras, it was the Pantheon of Titans that stopped him.

EDIT: as a side note in regards to WoD existing just to bring Guldan back, I dont care guldan was easily one of the best characters in wow. Competes with LK for "best villain"
 

Hawki

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Samtemdo8 said:
And dude, Warcraft lore has been inconsitant since Warcraft 1.

They made it canon that the Orcs won the First War, completely nullifying the actions of players who prefered the human campaign.
That's not an example of an inconsistancy, that's an example of standard RTS campaign format at the time, where a player chose a side and played to victory.

Silentpony said:
I always assumed WOW was considered non-canon in a way. I mean who killed Arthas? Was is NoobKillaLEET69? Was is Leroy Jenkins? Was it Falcor, defender of the alliance?
In these scenarios, it's always referred to as "a group of heroes" or something similar.

You can't really have a canon, as in a continued singular story in a game where everything resets every 30mins and you can run the same dungeon over and over and over
I...think it's pretty easy actually. Just because you can revisit an event doesn't mean the event didn't canonically happen.

RJ 17 said:
My issue isn't that he made it back, but rather how he made it back.
Probably took his human form and slipped through?

Point is, it's well established that plenty of orcs made it back to Azeroth, it doesn't preclude Deathwing sneaking through as well.

Regarding Old Gods in WCIII:
Arthas fights a Forgotten One on his way back to Icecrown. To be fair: they then rolled that into being an Old God, but at the time it was just an ancient best that had made it's nest in the old Nerubian kingdom.
The Old Gods were explained in the WC3 manual. Anyone who played TFT with a knowledge of WC3 lore would instantly make the connection (or at least entertain "huh, is that related to the Old Gods?")

Regarding Light vs Horde:
To be fair, this one comes from a secondary source. I quit Legion about 5 months after it's launch. A friend that has stuck with WoW the entire time up till now has been drip-feeding details about the new expansion, and apparently there is going to be some kind of Light vs Void faction war along with the standard Horde vs Alliance war.
Your friend at least has the advantage of playing WoW (I don't, I just follow the lore, get the novels, etc.), but I can't imagine that. The Light is pretty tied in with the Alliance side, but right now, so is the Void (Void elves). The Horde doesn't really have any affinity with either of these forces.

Regarding Jaina:
Enough to know that she's a hypocritical *****, yes. During Cataclysm she was still waving the flag of neutrality and as such essentially had a protected status from the Horde. Thrall's pact with her was still being upheld. Meanwhile she allowed the Alliance to use Theramore as a military staging ground for a campaign into Kalimdor. A campaign which saw Taurjo sacked before the Alliance turned it's eyes to Mulgore, aiming to take out the Tauren.

By allowing the Alliance to make use of Theramore, Jaina made Theramore a target. Her neutrality was effectively broken. Granted, by this point Garrosh's true nature as a warmongering asshole had been revealed and he wanted to conquer all of Kalimdor, as such it's debatable as to whether or not Theramore would have been sacked if Jaina had not allowed the Alliance to use it as a base of operations. Considering who was currently leading the Horde: chances are it would have been attacked anyway. However not all of the Horde supported this invasion. Baine sent a messenger to Theramore to warn Jaina of the impending attack.

Has she been fucked over countless times throughout the story? Most certainly, however she was also there to witness the events that prove that the Alliance isn't without plenty of blood on it's hands as well. So she's made a scapegoat of the entirety of the Horde when the one that was truly to blame for most of her heartache - Garrosh - was killed...by Thrall, the one with whom she made peace in the first place. An act which displayed that the Horde will not forgive war criminals in their ranks.......

.......except when Sylvanas was named Warchief despite all the shady shit she's been up to, but that's an entirely different can of worms that I take issue with.
Okay, fair enough, but if the original criteria is the handling of Jaina's handling, then I'd say it was done well. She did truly believe in peace (whatever other actions she might have taken aside), and that was at the cost of her own father's life. So, with her 'delusion' shattered along with Theramore, I can easily see her going down a more vengeful path. Likewise, the short is conveying events through her own perspective. Individual perspectives are biased by nature. I don't see the short as saying "feel sorry for Jaina," more like "this is where Jaina is right now." Sympathizing with her (or not) is at the viewer's prerogative.

RJ 17 said:
Yeah, and that Yogg fight was a right proper bastard of a fight, too. And yeah, I'm aware that C'Thun was the first "official" Old God. My issue with the Old Gods is as I had previously mentioned: throughout the RTS's, the entire story always revolved around Sargeras and his Burning Legion. Ol' Sarge was always heralded as the ultimate big bad of the universe...now he's been retconned into being - in the grand scheme of things - a bump in the road on the path towards the REAL threat: the Void Lords.
While I've complained about the Void Lords before, I think it's important to look at the above points in perspective.

The Burning Legion, at the very earliest, could be said to have been introduced in WC2 (least that's when Kil'jaeden was). However, the Burning Legion wasn't name dropped until WC3, which is also the point in time when the Old Gods were. While it's true that the majority of Warcraft's in-universe history can be framed in the context of the Burning Legion, it's a retroactive framing. A framing that I like mind you, but it's retroactive all the same. And again, the Old Gods were name dropped at the same time as the Burning Legion, so it's incorrect to bunch them in with the Void Lords as being introuced in the same context.

That said, as for the Void Lords, I can't say I'm fond of the idea. It's basically eclipsing a big bad (Burning Legion) with an even bigger bad (Void Lords), and I suspect a lot of it has to do with WoW's nature as an MMO - there's the onus to carry on indefinitely. Which thus begs the question as to whether there's a 'bigger bigger' bad if we reach the point of confronting the Void Lords themselves. I will say that at the least, the Void Lords are at least tied in with long established elements (Old Gods) and it arguably adds nuance to Sargeras, but whether that's a good thing or not is at one's own discretion.

Ryotknife said:
EDIT: as a side note in regards to WoD existing just to bring Guldan back, I dont care guldan was easily one of the best characters in wow. Competes with LK for "best villain"
From what I understand, the "official reason" for WoD was to explore characters (old orc characters) and a setting (Draenor) that could no longer be explored in the present.

That said, WoD seems to be its own thing nowadays, barely acknowledged. Can't say I'm complaining about that.
 

Ryotknife

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From a raiders perspective WoD wasnt so bad. It was the lazy expansion, as in you dont have to do much (because there wasnt much to do). You signed in, sent your followers on missions, and BAM...done till raid. In Legion, it was a lot of freakin work. Yea there was a lot to do, but it also meant you had to do a lot if you wanted to keep up in the pve scene. Running 5 man dungeons hundreds and hundreds of bloody times to upgrade your artifact weapon....actually artifact weapons in general can go to hell that expansion.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Ryotknife said:
Canadamus Prime said:
RJ 17 said:
Canadamus Prime said:
I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
Yep, that would be Warlords of Draenor...the expansion whose entire purpose was to bring one character (Gul'dan) back from the dead and inject him into the story line.
Yeah my friend showed me the intro to that where I think it's Garosh travels back in time and stops the demonic corruption of the horde or something and ends with them building a technology based portal to Azeroth which made no fucking sense.
technically it was a rogue bronze dragon that did the timetraveling. Garrosh was his accomplice (and then garrosh killed him). As for the technology, Garrosh brought modern (by wow standards) technology with him, specifically the BlackFuse company (which was an mercenary company of goblin engineers/inventors pushing out cutting edge tech)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blackfuse_Company

In WoD, the orcs built the portal (they did build the last one too remember), but this time they used the Shadow Council prisoners to power it with Fel (instead of powering it via draenae prisoners).
So Bronze Dragons have the power to time travel?
The fact that they were using tech was not the part that didn't make sense to me. The part that didn't make sense was that they were building a portal. If I remember the original Lore, The Horde discovered Azeroth when Midiev (sp?) made contract with Gul'Dan and between the 2 of them opened the Portal. So I guess Garrosh is buttfucking the time line in more ways than just preventing the corruption of the Horde.
I hate time travel based retcons.
 

Smithnikov_v1legacy

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Shit, if all you have to do is toss nerve gas on your own troops to get a promotion, that says to me the organization is a mite fucked up.
 

Hawki

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Canadamus Prime said:
The fact that they were using tech was not the part that didn't make sense to me. The part that didn't make sense was that they were building a portal. If I remember the original Lore, The Horde discovered Azeroth when Midiev (sp?) made contract with Gul'Dan and between the 2 of them opened the Portal. So I guess Garrosh is buttfucking the time line in more ways than just preventing the corruption of the Horde.
I hate time travel based retcons.
WoD doesn't retcon anything. It's an alternate reality. The actions taken in alternate Draenor don't affect the history of the main timeline.
 

sanquin

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Man I'm glad I never got into the lore. I just liked WoW as an MMORPG. I loosely follow the main story lines and just see it as a themepark ride to go through. I would be pissed if I was into the lore as much as some people here. ^^;;
 

Ryotknife

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Canadamus Prime said:
Ryotknife said:
Canadamus Prime said:
RJ 17 said:
Canadamus Prime said:
I wouldn't recommend getting into comics if I were you.
Also didn't they toss time travel in there somewhere?
Yep, that would be Warlords of Draenor...the expansion whose entire purpose was to bring one character (Gul'dan) back from the dead and inject him into the story line.
Yeah my friend showed me the intro to that where I think it's Garosh travels back in time and stops the demonic corruption of the horde or something and ends with them building a technology based portal to Azeroth which made no fucking sense.
technically it was a rogue bronze dragon that did the timetraveling. Garrosh was his accomplice (and then garrosh killed him). As for the technology, Garrosh brought modern (by wow standards) technology with him, specifically the BlackFuse company (which was an mercenary company of goblin engineers/inventors pushing out cutting edge tech)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blackfuse_Company

In WoD, the orcs built the portal (they did build the last one too remember), but this time they used the Shadow Council prisoners to power it with Fel (instead of powering it via draenae prisoners).
So Bronze Dragons have the power to time travel?
The fact that they were using tech was not the part that didn't make sense to me. The part that didn't make sense was that they were building a portal. If I remember the original Lore, The Horde discovered Azeroth when Midiev (sp?) made contract with Gul'Dan and between the 2 of them opened the Portal. So I guess Garrosh is buttfucking the time line in more ways than just preventing the corruption of the Horde.
I hate time travel based retcons.
Yes, bronze dragons have the ability to travel through time. Each dragonflight is reponsible for a different aspect of keeping azeroth safe. Bronze = time, red = life, blue = magic, black = earth, green = emerald dream/subconscious/dreams. This is why Deathwing wanted to destroy all mortals because he believed they will corrupt and destroy the planet (ironically, Malygos went down the same thought pattern but with magic instead of the planet).

BC also introduced the Infinite Dragonflight, a rebel faction of bronze dragons that wanted to change the timeline as they saw fit (preventing the opening of the dark portal, preventing Thrall from escaping prison, killing arthas when he burned down strathome), whereas the Bronze Dragonflight are more like Timecops.

Also, because the Dark portal in modern azeroth already exists (and works) that takes care of half of the work for alternate Draenor to connect to it. All they have to do is build their own portal and "make a connection" to modern Dark portal, which they did via use of a bronze dragon artifact.

Honestly, WoD-wise the things that annoyed me was the big non-orc threats than exist in WoD but did not exist for the original horde. The Iron Horde is suppose to be much more powerful than the original, yet as far as we know the original horde did not have to deal with Pale Orcs or the Botani (who are like a plant version of the Scourge and possibly as big of a threat as them)
 

Hawki

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Ryotknife said:
Honestly, WoD-wise the things that annoyed me was the big non-orc threats than exist in WoD but did not exist for the original horde. The Iron Horde is suppose to be much more powerful than the original, yet as far as we know the original horde did not have to deal with Pale Orcs or the Botani (who are like a plant version of the Scourge and possibly as big of a threat as them)
They do exist in the original timeline, it's just that WoD introduced them. In the main timeline, the botani were wiped out prior to the events of the games. Likewise, the pale orcs formed as part of the Twilight's Hammer Clan.
 

RJ 17

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Hawki said:
Ryotknife said:
Honestly, WoD-wise the things that annoyed me was the big non-orc threats than exist in WoD but did not exist for the original horde. The Iron Horde is suppose to be much more powerful than the original, yet as far as we know the original horde did not have to deal with Pale Orcs or the Botani (who are like a plant version of the Scourge and possibly as big of a threat as them)
They do exist in the original timeline, it's just that WoD introduced them. In the main timeline, the botani were wiped out prior to the events of the games. Likewise, the pale orcs formed as part of the Twilight's Hammer Clan.
In otherwords: they exist as retcons. And that's my biggest problem with the way Blizzard does things:

1: "We want to do (fill in the blank)."
2: "Ummmm...well (fill in the blank) completely contradicts stuff that's already fully known canon."
1: "Fuck it! Put it in anyways!"
2: "I mean....could we at least put in some explanation for (fill in the blank)? You know, at least try to make it fit with the already established lore?"
1: "Nope! Just jam it right the fuck on in there!"

The biggest example of this is - as I pointed out in my original post - the situation involving Illidan. To wit: you straight-up kill him. He's dead. His parting words to Maiev is that her existence now has absolutely no meaning since he - who had been the absolute obsession of her life...the very target of her hunt - was about to die. And she acknowledges this. She realizes that her entire existence had become The Hunt. Without Illidan to chase after, her life is completely without purpose.

But then Legion comes around and says "Nope! That was all a bunch of bullshit! You didn't see any of that, and fuck you if you said you did! What REALLY happened was that you and your allies weakened Illidan enough for Maiev to step in and capture him!"

I'm willing to go along with a lot of bullshit. Toss in your mcguffins, bust out your deus ex machinas, do what you need to in order to make the story work...so long as it still maintains at least a tenuous link to what we've already experienced/played through.

But Blizzard's obsession with retconning stuff with absolutely no attempt to make it make sense, just hamfistedly saying "NOPE! New expansion means new lore, so this is how it happened now. Completely disregard everything you thought you knew." has utterly murdered any desire to see what happens next in this franchise.

For fuck's sake, there was a time when it was canon that Medivh had a half-orc son who was to inherit the mantle of Guardian...until he was completely wiped from existence with absolutely no reasoning from Blizzard other than "Yeah, we don't want him to be a thing anymore so we're just going to say that he never existed."
 

Ryotknife

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RJ 17 said:
Hawki said:
Ryotknife said:
Honestly, WoD-wise the things that annoyed me was the big non-orc threats than exist in WoD but did not exist for the original horde. The Iron Horde is suppose to be much more powerful than the original, yet as far as we know the original horde did not have to deal with Pale Orcs or the Botani (who are like a plant version of the Scourge and possibly as big of a threat as them)
They do exist in the original timeline, it's just that WoD introduced them. In the main timeline, the botani were wiped out prior to the events of the games. Likewise, the pale orcs formed as part of the Twilight's Hammer Clan.
In otherwords: they exist as retcons. And that's my biggest problem with the way Blizzard does things:

1: "We want to do (fill in the blank)."
2: "Ummmm...well (fill in the blank) completely contradicts stuff that's already fully known canon."
1: "Fuck it! Put it in anyways!"
2: "I mean....could we at least put in some explanation for (fill in the blank)? You know, at least try to make it fit with the already established lore?"
1: "Nope! Just jam it right the fuck on in there!"

The biggest example of this is - as I pointed out in my original post - the situation involving Illidan. To wit: you straight-up kill him. He's dead. His parting words to Maiev is that her existence now has absolutely no meaning since he - who had been the absolute obsession of her life...the very target of her hunt - was about to die. And she acknowledges this. She realizes that her entire existence had become The Hunt. Without Illidan to chase after, her life is completely without purpose.

But then Legion comes around and says "Nope! That was all a bunch of bullshit! You didn't see any of that, and fuck you if you said you did! What REALLY happened was that you and your allies weakened Illidan enough for Maiev to step in and capture him!"

I'm willing to go along with a lot of bullshit. Toss in your mcguffins, bust out your deus ex machinas, do what you need to in order to make the story work...so long as it still maintains at least a tenuous link to what we've already experienced/played through.

But Blizzard's obsession with retconning stuff with absolutely no attempt to make it make sense, just hamfistedly saying "NOPE! New expansion means new lore, so this is how it happened now. Completely disregard everything you thought you knew." has utterly murdered any desire to see what happens next in this franchise.

For fuck's sake, there was a time when it was canon that Medivh had a half-orc son who was to inherit the mantle of Guardian...until he was completely wiped from existence with absolutely no reasoning from Blizzard other than "Yeah, we don't want him to be a thing anymore so we're just going to say that he never existed."
Well....Illidan did die, Meaiv brought and sealed his corpse back.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Illidan_Stormrage

After the fall of the Black Temple, the corpse of Illidan was taken by Warden Maiev Shadowsong to the Vault of the Wardens so that Illidan's dark, lingering soul could suffer the rest of his eternal sentence?along with his followers, the feared Illidari.[45]
However, Illidan did absorb a good chunk of demon mojo, meaning lore-wise he can use their regeneration technique as well.
 

Ryotknife

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Hawki said:
Ryotknife said:
Honestly, WoD-wise the things that annoyed me was the big non-orc threats than exist in WoD but did not exist for the original horde. The Iron Horde is suppose to be much more powerful than the original, yet as far as we know the original horde did not have to deal with Pale Orcs or the Botani (who are like a plant version of the Scourge and possibly as big of a threat as them)
They do exist in the original timeline, it's just that WoD introduced them. In the main timeline, the botani were wiped out prior to the events of the games. Likewise, the pale orcs formed as part of the Twilight's Hammer Clan.
did not know that about the pale orcs, although it makes sense. As for the Botani, im going to have to give blizz the stinkeye on that one. The Botani not only gave the Iron Horde a hard time, but gave the horde/alliance a hard time. In fact, they are the only faction i can think of whom no one dealt a decisive blow against, AND the Botani came pretty darn close to not only estroying Stormwind, but possibly Azeroth as well, just by sending ONE being through to our timeline.

The Botani are actually worse than the Scourge. Not only could they use the dead to bolster their ranks, they can create an army just using nature since they are plant people.

Basically, i feel like they made the Botani TOO powerful in WoD (and in lore). Looking at their lore, their power level appears to be on the same plane as Scourge or even the Burning Legion.
 

Hawki

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RJ 17 said:
In otherwords: they exist as retcons.
There's a difference between a retcon and retroactive information.

A retcon is where old information is changed. Retroactive information is new information that recontextualizes old information. If the existence of the botani is a retcon, so is the Burning Legion, and so is a plenthora of material in all fiction. And that's my biggest problem with the way Blizzard does things:

The biggest example of this is - as I pointed out in my original post - the situation involving Illidan. To wit: you straight-up kill him. He's dead. His parting words to Maiev is that her existence now has absolutely no meaning since he - who had been the absolute obsession of her life...the very target of her hunt - was about to die. And she acknowledges this. She realizes that her entire existence had become The Hunt. Without Illidan to chase after, her life is completely without purpose.

But then Legion comes around and says "Nope! That was all a bunch of bullshit! You didn't see any of that, and fuck you if you said you did! What REALLY happened was that you and your allies weakened Illidan enough for Maiev to step in and capture him!"
All that is false. Canonically, Illidan died at the Black Temple. Maiev transported his corpse to the Vault of the Wardens, so that his soul could be tormented. What happens after that is a series of events too long for me to describe (just see https://wow.gamepedia.com/Illidan_Stormrage#Legion), but point is, Maiev killed him in Outland. That never changed.

I'm willing to go along with a lot of bullshit. Toss in your mcguffins, bust out your deus ex machinas, do what you need to in order to make the story work...so long as it still maintains at least a tenuous link to what we've already experienced/played through.

For fuck's sake, there was a time when it was canon that Medivh had a half-orc son who was to inherit the mantle of Guardian...until he was completely wiped from existence with absolutely no reasoning from Blizzard other than "Yeah, we don't want him to be a thing anymore so we're just going to say that he never existed."
Which is also false. Med'an was never retconned. He's been put to the wayside, but his existence was never invalidated.
 

wizzy555

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The warbringers: Jaina sea shanty is from the point of view of the Kul'tiran citizenship. You know the average Joe who wouldn't conceive of a reason a daughter would let people kill her father since they never saw Thrall or the battle of nordrassil etc.

This isn't a retcon it is a very appropriate character development given events.

The rest of the retcons are annoying.
 

Zeraki

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After Arthas died that was pretty much it for me, couldn't really get invested into anything after that because the story I wanted to see the end of from WarCraft III was done.

Stopped playing during Cata, went back for a bit during Legion and hated how everything was a speed run now and eventually got bored and stopped playing when NieR: Automata came out.
 

Agema

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RJ 17 said:
I write this as a final lamentation of the loss of WarCraft's story.
Herein lies a common, inherent tension between creators and fans.

Creators need to get their job done of creating a fun product. Fans often invest heavily in "world-building", wanting a coherent, almost historical narrative. But the two often don't go together. Having to cling to a lot of established canon can end up constraining creators so that they can't build what they need. Fans, as you explain, find it bewildering and annoying when lore gets re-written. Virtually all long-running fictional universes end up in this state: Doctor Who, Star Wars, Batman, etc.

Particularly, one of the things long-running fans have to contend with is that fictional universes thrive by attracting new interest, who don't know the lore; and indeed long-running and increasing complex lore impedes newbies getting into the fictional universe. In a worst case scenario (as occurred to Doctor Who in the 1980s) the fans grow up and take over the show writing so heavily to past narratives that that you need to know five back plots from anywhere up to 20 years ago to have the faintest idea what's going on in the one you're watching.

Whilst I'm not immune to a sense of discomfort and aggravation when creators suddenly undermine the consistency of their own fictional universe, ultimately I've come to the conclusion that if it makes a better story, suck it up.

On the other hand, I've never played WoW - but I figure it's hardly Tolstoy in narrative stakes. If it's anything like the Warhammer world, god help it there's barely anything worth calling a story in it.
 

wizzy555

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Agema said:
On the other hand, I've never played WoW - but I figure it's hardly Tolstoy in narrative stakes. If it's anything like the Warhammer world, god help it there's barely anything worth calling a story in it.
The funny thing is, the last thing they complained about is part of a 15 year long (real time) character evolution.
 

Fappy

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May 1, 2020
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I actually like where they are taking Jaina's character at the moment. WoW writing has never been the best, but there are a few gems here and there every xpac.