Ok, I THINK I understand (yet another ME3 ending topic...)

[Strain42]

This post, and indeed this thread may contain spoilers to ME3, please read at your own risk.

I don't play Mass Effect, I got bored about halfway through the first one and haven't played since then. However, seeing as how it's impossible to spend 10 minutes on this site without seeing some thread about how much people hate the ending, I've been able to figure out that most people...aren't all that fond of it.

But from what I gather, it's not that people were upset that it was a downer ending, they were upset that it was a BAD downer ending. Which is something I can actually sympathize with.

To use an example, who here remembers the film Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story with Vince Vaughn and Ben Stiller? Well, for those who don't know, this was the original ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMupw1ICDfA

The ending was changed because test audiences hated it and thought it was too depressing. Frankly, I didn't hate it because it was depressing. I hated it because it felt cut off. I would have been fine if they'd kept the film with Average Joe's losing. Lots of great films end with the Hero technically losing. But this ending wasn't well expanded, and it almost makes you go "what just happened?"

After getting attached to these characters for the past hour and a half, to see that's just how the film ends feels hollow. Just because they wanted a downer ending, doesn't mean they couldn't have done a better job with it.

From what I've gathered, that's sort of how people feel about ME3's ending. Only instead of an hour and a half film, it was three whole video games.

So am I within the ballpark here? Or was this entire post just gibberish?

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Yep, that's what it is. The people saying "you just don't like the ending because it isn't sunshine and rainbows!" are just trying to avoid the issue, which you managed to work out pretty much perfectly. I haven't played the game either, but that's what I'm hearing.

 

[Cobbs]

I sat down after finishing and was going "Well some closure would be gosh darn good about now. Nope nothing. Not even a peep. Fuck."
Twas like getting a cheeseburger, unwrapping that delicious sonuvabitch only to find that there is no cheese to be found. I was expecting/hoping for a lengthy "Shepard was a hero..." speech that nicely wrapped up all the loose ends and put to rest the story that I'd been playing for since ME1 came out.

 

[Jodah]

Yeah it's not that it was a sad ending it was that it was a shitty sad ending. It's that they introduced dozens of new concepts in the last five minutes, had you make a choice between three different options that will all doom the galaxy anyways, and then show almost nothing about the fates of the other characters.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

So am I within the ballpark here? Or was this entire post just gibberish?

That's a big part of it, yeah. The rest was that it came out of nowhere, poked pretty serious plot holes in the whole series, and derailed Shepard's character, among other problems. This article [http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/] covers just about everything, I think.

 

[Savagezion]

That's the ballpark. It only digs deeper when the game says "Now go buy our DLC". As that is where they plan to put the closure. Thus, the game actually IS incomplete as the story in ME3 is incomplete. However, you can buy closure 1 segment at a time in DLC.

Imagine that the movie was being advertised as an ending that will answer all questions and leave no loose ends.

Now imagine if that ending of Dodgeball was fallowed up buy a link that allowed you to go online and buy "bonus footage" of:
What became of the rival gym and Stiller - $10 (10:00 of footage)
What did the friends go on to do after this happened - $8 (12:00 of footage)
What became of Peter and the lawyer chick? - $10 (10:00 of footage)

 

[KingofMadCows]

It's not just that the ending is cut short but also because it makes no sense. It reminds me of how Command and Conquer 4 ended by basically contradicting everything that was established in the franchise. Kane's mysterious goal of trying to use Tiberium to mutate earth turned into "ET phone home" just like how the Reaper's unfathomable goal of harvesting "genetically viable" species turned into "we don't want Skynet to rule the galaxy."

 

[Screamarie]

I admit I did want a "sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows" ending. Yeah, maybe that makes me childish and unrealistic, but I like happy endings. I don't want to invest 120+ hours (3 games at roughly 40 hours each if you do side missions) to just have an ending that makes me confused and sad.

BUT had it just been done better, I would have been content with what happens to Shepard. Had it just explained a little more, been more up front, and given me something to say "I did it! I saved the galaxy" then I would have been okay. Instead I'm just given three options with no context to make a decision and everything I had done, didn't matter. It felt as if the entire rest of the three games could have been lopped off and those last five minutes could have been all there were. WHY couldn't synthetic and organic life live in harmony? Organic life lives in varying states of harmony and unrest, why can't organic and synthetic life do the same? WHY does it have to be all or nothing? It just didn't seem right.

I didn't feel like I had saved the galaxy. I felt like I had forced something on the rest of the galaxy against their will, but had no other choice that to just let everyone die.

 

[Vanitas likes Bubbles]

Yep, spot on. You also missed out on the plot holes and lack of closure to the players. Theres nothing wrong with a downer ending, if its done well anyway.

 

[Scabadus]

I think it's a bit of both; people are normally a litte more accepting of bad writing if it's happy bad writing (how many stories end with a literal "happy ever after" without an in depth discussion of a character's sacrifices and what they learned over their adventure?). To use your Dodgeball example: the actualy film that hit cinemas didn't end on a literal reverse of that embedded scene. There was the ending part about (spoilers, obviously) him selling the gym, but betting the money on the small team winning, etc. It was much more fleshed out and well written and we all learned that mindless greed is bad and believing in ourselves is good. But what if that scene had been simply reversed? Average Joes makes the final throw, wins the game and celebrates before a cut to black? Well the good news is you don't have to think: it's been done a hundred times before in a hundred films (always about sports, oddly) and every time it's mindless feel-good fun. The little guys win, then the film ends and you just accept that because you feel happy.

If Mass Effect had ended with a big mindless explosion that destroyed every Reaper then Shepard retired to Rannoch with Tali (my love interest) I would have been happy: after the amount of time I put into those games and amount of effort I put into making the right decisions I think I deserve that. If there was a well-written epilogue that encompased every decision I made and how they affected each other, all the better. But the "you win, you are happy" is enough - if I had gotten that retirement as a final scene I would have been dissapointed about not learning how the genophage cure turned out and whether Wrex united the Krogan into an age of peace and art, but not as dissapointed (hell, not as angry: I'm paying £40 - £120 for all 3 games - for a story, make it a good ending damn it) as I am right now without that scene.

If it had ended with me standing over Tali's grave because she didn't survive a certain massive explosion at the end (either of them) I would have been... well, not exactly happy, but I woud have been feeling something very strongly. Yes I saved the galaxy, yes I saved billions of lives, but a billion live are kind of too many, I can't visualise or care about them. I know saving them is good, but compared to the one that I know being ended? That, Bioware, THAT IS WHAT BITTERSWEET MEANS!

*ahem*

Sorry about that.

As it is, the ending is just (giant space) rocks fall, everyone dies. You die. You do a wierd synthesis thing that somehow makes synthetic bits out of everyone's organic bodies (and more wierdly, it's implied the inorganic bodies gain organic bits) against their will. Two members of your crew survive. Cut to black. That's it. What? I'm confused and unsatisfied.

It really is that simple: "you win, you retire with your love" works (maybe not what every writer should aspire to, but it works), "you die, haha" doesn't work. Double standard? Yes. Something that a writer needs to study, learn and work around? Hell yes.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

That, Bioware, THAT IS WHAT BITTERSWEET MEANS!

Really, even if Shepard lived and the Reapers were utterly defeated, the galaxy is still full of ruined worlds and billions of mutilated corpses. That would've been bittersweet enough, right?

The Star Child scene really should've gone like this [http://arkis.deviantart.com/#/d4sllwt], and the three endings should've gone like this:

(1) Insufficient war assets, etc.: the Reapers win, Shepard and company dies, the cycle continues. The final scene could've been that recording Liara made for those time capsules.

(2) Sufficient war assets, etc.: the Reapers are defeated (though at an enormous cost), most of the crew lives (maybe leave it up to pure dumb luck to decide which ones), Shepard dies. Final scene: Shepard's funeral.

(3) If you did absolutely everything right over all three games, maxed out your war assets, etc.: the Reapers are defeated, the whole crew lives, Shepard is saved from the Citadel just before he/she bleeds to death. Then, after the credits, there could've been a short, playable scene--set a few years later, maybe--where you can talk to your allies to find out what becomes of them, and what difference all your choices made. By now, Shepard has retired from the military, either to take Udina's spot on the Council (Renegade ending), or to assume a leadership role in the galactic reconstruction effort and to try to maintain peace (Paragon ending).

So yeah, I wouldn't have minded a happy(ish) ending either, as long as we really, reeeeeeeally earned it, but we didn't even get the option.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

This would have been perfect for me. And yes, I would complete all 3 games again, going to painstaking measures to complete every thing to see that ending.

Here's something I just found on Reddit: somebody came up with Arkis' alternate Star Child scene [http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg], the Internet is basically fixing this for them.

 

[Richardplex]

Theres just NO DAMN CLOSURE. *Cries*

Its so damn depressing. They just left us here, grasping at straws like indoctrination, trying to make sense of it all...

I am so disappointed. It really makes me want to cry. And as people here already said, not because the ending is sad, but because its so shit. Oh man...

I really, really hope they make a DLC ending. I dont care how much it costs, I dont care what it is as long as its good, and I dont care if Bioware thinks its a good idea or not. Man, I cant deal with it, I really cant.

It's funny, because indoctrination theory isn't helpful at all. I believe firmly in it, but even then, you wake up at end and... we *assume* Shepard wins? Really, that's the flaw with that theory; it solves the plot-holes at the end, but the player gets even less closure, which is impressive.

(3) If you did absolutely everything right over all three games, maxed out your war assets, etc.: the Reapers are defeated, the whole crew lives, Shepard is saved from the Citadel just before he/she bleeds to death. Then, after the credits, there could've been a short, playable scene--set a few years later, maybe--where you can talk to your allies to find out what becomes of them, and what difference all your choices made. By now, Shepard has retired from the military, either to take Udina's spot on the Council (Renegade ending), or to assume a leadership role in the galactic reconstruction effort and to try to maintain peace (Paragon ending).

So yeah, I wouldn't have minded a happy(ish) ending either, as long as we really, reeeeeeeally earned it, but we didn't even get the option.

I would prefer Shepard's life left ambiguous. My Shepard would more likely either go on whatever crazy missions Garrus went on, or spend life as a traveller, no more responsibility. You know, instead of locking your character into A or B arbitrarily. But other than that, I like your idea. Especially since despite being renegade in game 1&2, I'm fairly sure my Shepard would get that ending.

 

[Richardplex]

This would have been perfect for me. And yes, I would complete all 3 games again, going to painstaking measures to complete every thing to see that ending.

Here's something I just found on Reddit: somebody came up with Arkis' alternate Star Child scene [http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg], the Internet is basically fixing this for them.

That flow chart, Bioware better be reading that, that's perfect.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

This would have been perfect for me. And yes, I would complete all 3 games again, going to painstaking measures to complete every thing to see that ending.

Here's something I just found on Reddit: somebody came up with Arkis' alternate Star Child scene [http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg], the Internet is basically fixing this for them.

That flow chart, Bioware better be reading that, that's perfect.

...well, now that I think of it, it's almost perfect; it seems to suggest that the Geth will always side with the Reapers, even if you made peace between them and the Quarians. But aside from that, I think it covers everything.

 

[PureIrony]

The problem isn't just the severe lack of sunshine, lollipops, or rainbows. I could learn to accept that. The problem is, I spent the last 3 games getting very, very attached to that universe. I know nothing of what happened to that universe, ultimately. I can only infer, and given all that I do know is pretty bad, I can only assume my actions kinda sorta destroyed galactic civilization as I came to know it.

I don't know if anyone's okay. Is Wrex okay? Can he get back to his homeworld and rebuild without a Mass Relay? Is there enough left of Earth to sustain that enormous fleet? Or enough fuel still kicking around to help them get back home? What about the Quarians? Their home planet, which they just got back, is on the other side of the galaxy. They have no food or fuel, or I just blew up all the geth. Or at least, I think I do because I didn't see them die.

What about my crew? Where did they crash? Why were they in the Mass Relay when all that shit was going down? Are they going to populate that one planet they were on? Are they all going to just clusterfuck Liara into producing another generation and then inbreed until they get another ship going? I DON'T KNOW. NOT KNOWING IS KILLING ME.

The series didn't end. It just stopped, and now we're all scrambling to turn it back on.

 

[Phlakes]

This would have been perfect for me. And yes, I would complete all 3 games again, going to painstaking measures to complete every thing to see that ending.

Here's something I just found on Reddit: somebody came up with Arkis' alternate Star Child scene [http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg], the Internet is basically fixing this for them.

Some of that flowchart make even less sense.

Now, I definitely would've liked if there had been more consequences during the final sequence like in 2, but what people are making the biggest deal about is the final choice. They say "it's just different hues of the same ending!". Yes, it's different hues of stopping the Reapers. You know, Shepard's goal through the entire trilogy. The final choice isn't the culmination of all the games, it's just another choice and the consequences of it and of the other things you've done are left open, with good reason.

 

[Ryank1908]

A game - one that is nearly 100% based around you making choices and seeing that collaboration of choices turn into something physical - with an ending that doesn't reference any single choice you've made throughout the fucking trilogy of games.

People can say what they want, but objectively? Bioware dropped the damn ball, and they dropped it hard.