On Gaymers and Cons

UNHchabo

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Frostbyte666 said:
Sorry but I feel this sexual orientation segregation is going too far into all aspects of life where it isn't actually relevant. I'd be tempted to turn up to a gamer con, then a gaymer con to truly see if there's a big difference though I couldn't help but feel discriminated against by the latter just because I have a different sexual preference when the convention should be focusing more on games.
You can go if you're straight; I pre-ordered a pass through the Kickstarter. All the organizers expect is for attendees to be accepting.
 

chozo_hybrid

Jund 'Em Out!
Jul 15, 2009
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I get why they have these cons, hence why they're named what they are (So people know what they're going to), I just don't get why they have to separate themselves with a new term. "Gaymer" or "Girl Gamer" and things like that just seem silly to me. We're all just gamers, why the need for extra titles, you want to be treated the same, sweet as. Why the need for attention grabbing titles that separate you from the rest of the culture.

We're all just gamers here, and I would like to think we're all equal. But creating sub groups and titles can sort of create a bit of a divide.

I don't know, maybe it's something I just don't understand.
 

Verlander

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Alcaste said:
saleem said:
Seriously I understand that the homosexual community wants an environment where they dont have to put up with every other snot nosed kid calling anything they dont care for as "gay", more power to them. However if on the flip side there was a con called Hetero/Malecon there would be hell to pay. Its inconsistent and that is my problem with it.
Think of it this way: There will never be a Heterocon, ever. There is absolutely no need for it, as heterosexuality is already considered "normal" to the point where it's assumed in just about everything. You will get a much smaller reaction when a guy says "My girlfriend and I saw a movie" than if you replaced 'girlfriend' with 'boyfriend'.

Because of that, you won't ever have to differentiate yourself and have events 'catered to straights~'. It's not about consistency. If it were consistent, we wouldn't even have the problem to begin with.
When you define an event by something completely unrelated (sexuality, gender, race etc), you are specifically discriminating against others. This isn't a situation where something is being created as an "alternative to the normal" because the "normal" convention isn't a heterosexual thing. It's a game thing. I'd protest a heterosexual games convention as strongly as a homosexual one, because the intention behind it is to discriminate against the interested parties that don't fit into the narrow, imposed restrictions.

As I've previously stated, in certain situations where sexuality has a part to play (such as nightclubs) there is a logical and honest reason why some segregation might occur. Beyond that, there is no reason to split the communities. We're supposed to be living and working together regardless of sex, age, race etc, not separately. That's what the hateful want.
 

saleem

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Alcaste said:
saleem said:
Think of it this way: There will never be a Heterocon, ever. There is absolutely no need for it, as heterosexuality is already considered "normal" to the point where it's assumed in just about everything. You will get a much smaller reaction when a guy says "My girlfriend and I saw a movie" than if you replaced 'girlfriend' with 'boyfriend'.

Because of that, you won't ever have to differentiate yourself and have events 'catered to straights~'. It's not about consistency. If it were consistent, we wouldn't even have the problem to begin with.
Thats not the point, if someone did do a heterocon it would get blasted by every gay rights group out there for being a bigoted and homophobic venture. It's double standards and that defeats the whole point of such movements in the first place as they are supposed to eliminate double standards NOT propagate them.
 

ThisGuyLikesNoTacos

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rhodo said:
NO, that is not the solution. That just makes discrimination much easier.
What? How does that work? Do I just go to some convention filled with members of a minority and start shouting at them? That would end badly for me...

Are you trying to say that it encourages discrimination to some extent? How? The convention is made to celebrate the LGBT community. You don't need to belong to the community in order to join it. It's not some sort of "gays only" club...

BTW. There exists a convention for women geeks, and I somehow doubt that's the reason why geeks hate on women but the other way around.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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hentropy said:
But seriously... why DO chicks want their own bathroom? What do they have to hide?
Have you ever seen a public restroom? I don't know where you live, but in the US they can get pretty nasty.

OT: Can't we all just get along? I wish that I would live to see a world where people aren't judged for petty things, but it seems that will never happen.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Zhukov said:
Honestly, I've asked the "why do they want their own con" question myself. Mostly because I don't know what one would do at a gay con that one wouldn't do at a regular con.
The problem isn't that the question is asked (at least, for my money it's not). The problem is how often it's used as an attack. Which seems more the thrust of this than not.

The main answer is "not get harassed and ridiculed by a culture that seems to harass and ridicule anyone who's different."

I'm not saying that all straight people are bad or anything, but when you look at the responses to gender/sexuality/race issues in gaming, there's a lot of tantrums to be found. gays/women/minorities get crap for trying to be included, then get crap for trying to band together (either via inclusion or exclusion).

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

There is a contingent of people who "suffer" from privilege and are quick to call discrimination without looking at the overall scenario. That's sort of the issue here.

Frostbyte666 said:
Though I've never been to a convention I really can't see the sexual discrimination being bad at a gamer con. I'd also think that if you were you'd probably be thrown out very quickly by the convention organisers who wouldn't want a reputation of being a homophobic venue.
That is amazingly optimistic.

Sorry but I feel this sexual orientation segregation is going too far into all aspects of life where it isn't actually relevant. I'd be tempted to turn up to a gamer con, then a gaymer con to truly see if there's a big difference though I couldn't help but feel discriminated against by the latter just because I have a different sexual preference when the convention should be focusing more on games.
Except they don't really check your sexuality at the door. It's a shame you are so optimistic about the majority but so negative when dealing with the minority.

If you think it's not relevant, that's probably because you haven't experienced any real discrimination and are trivialising the issues at hand. In fact, you're definitely doing the latter.

I find that there's too many homosexual movements that are acting like the world owes them for being gay and people should stop and respect them for it.
I'd settle for not having to worry about my safety. I can't speak for you, but I know that shouldn't be deemed an "unreasonable" demand.

Few homosexuals are looking for respect. At least, not more than the basic respect and dignity most other groups are afforded and desired.

The "special snowflake" deal is a strawman argument. It was tired when they made it about women. It was tired when they made it about blacks. It's tired when they make it about hispanics. And it's tired when they make it about homosexuals.

Why, your gay
What about my gay?

Wow so people insult you because of it, lots of people insult others for being different, that's their problem and highlights their flaws, not yours.
Yes, homosexuals cannot be offended by being mocked for being different, but you're getting out of sorts because...?

You couldn't help but feel discriminated against by a Gaymer con, but your attitude to homosexuals is tantamount to "suck it up."

Try an single standard.

For further reading, I suggest reading Susan Arendt's post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons#16238388] on the subject. I don't completely agree with her, but I find it a respectable sentiment.
 

wintercoat

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Nov 26, 2011
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Grey Carter said:
Arakasi said:
I'm going to have to call you a dick, Grey, specifically for calling genuinely curious people bigoted dicks.
Seriously, what?
Upon hearing this I did myself wonder why there would be an event specifically for homosexuals, when I don't see games having much to do with sexual identity for the most part.
You make a valid point about the 'fitting in' thing, but you don't have to be a dick about it.
1: Personal insults on the forum will get you warned and/or banned.

2: You might want to reread what I wrote. There's two kinds people here; Those who are asking genuine questions, and those are asking in bad-faith. The comic is aimed at the latter group.
1: And you insulted him and several other forumites, including myself, with your post. Where's your warning? How does it feel to not only have no repercussions for insulting your user base on a site that treats insults as heinous crimes, but to actually get paid to do it?

2: I don't judge people based on their sexual preference. To me, people are people, not gay people, black people, white people, man people, woman people, etc. I find "Gaymer-con" to be a ridiculous idea that only serves to further alienate gay gamers by cordoning them off from the rest of the community and calling attention to the fact that they're different. Apparently this makes me a dick because my opinion doesn't match up with yours.
 

Alcaste

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Verlander said:
When you define an event by something completely unrelated (sexuality, gender, race etc), you are specifically discriminating against others. This isn't a situation where something is being created as an "alternative to the normal" because the "normal" convention isn't a heterosexual thing. It's a game thing. I'd protest a heterosexual games convention as strongly as a homosexual one, because the intention behind it is to discriminate against the interested parties that don't fit into the narrow, imposed restrictions.

As I've previously stated, in certain situations where sexuality has a part to play (such as nightclubs) there is a logical and honest reason why some segregation might occur. Beyond that, there is no reason to split the communities. We're supposed to be living and working together regardless of sex, age, race etc, not separately. That's what the hateful want.
You're right. A gaming convention shouldn't have anything to do with our sexuality. It's unfortunate that a convention is required where gay gamers can feel comfortable, because that implies they aren't comfortable at the current ones.

I understand where you're coming from, I really do, I just wish it were that easy.


saleem said:
Thats not the point, if someone did do a heterocon it would get blasted by every gay rights group out there for being a bigoted and homophobic venture. It's double standards and that defeats the whole point of such movements in the first place as they are supposed to eliminate double standards NOT propagate them.
Not even going to bother with this side of things anymore. I already addressed why things wont be called that, and why it would be bad if they were.
 

Farther than stars

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Frostbyte666 said:
I'd be tempted to turn up to a gamer con, then a gaymer con to truly see if there's a big difference though I couldn't help but feel discriminated against by the latter just because I have a different sexual preference when the convention should be focusing more on games.
Yeah... because that's what happens regularly: gay people discriminating against straight people. It's not like it's the other way round or anything.
 

Alcaste

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I'm going to post this (though it's already been posted before) because people don't seem to be reading it. It addresses a lot of the issues for sure, and is probably the only time I can tolerate the person who wrote it.

http://www.destructoid.com/the-importance-of-a-gay-gamer-convention-232467.phtml
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Farther than stars said:
Yeah... because that's what happens regularly: gay people discriminating against straight people. It's not like it's the other way round or anything.
I think Todd in the Shadows said it best: you gay people have no idea what it's like to be excluded!

Not only that, but here's the description of the con in question:

On August 3 & 4th, 2013, we will gather for Gaymer X (formerly called GaymerCon) in San Francisco, CA for an exciting weekend of gaming, geek culture, tech talk,and some partying. We have some amazing bosses of honor and even a Gaymer X Concert! Gaymer X is open to all, whether you?re bisexual, transgender, gay, asexual or an ally and we hope to make an experience that will be meaningful as well as educational and fascinating.
He's totally going to get discriminated against if he shows up.

...Although, they do say "ally," and I can't help but feel he might be a bit antagonistic.
 

Orekoya

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Sep 24, 2008
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Abomination said:
The question being asked is still - why is this required?
And here is the answer: it isn't required. I have seen no mandate requiring it. This fulfills no needs.

Asking why it's required or needed misses the point of wants. IE: This is something some people want to do.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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I'm not sure I fully agree.
I remember when they announced the "gaymercon" idea and my gay friend at work (myself and him being the only two really into gaming and culture) really didn't like the idea and thought it was kind of silly.

His reasoning basically being: if you go to a gaming convention, you're there for the games; not to express your sexuality.
Maybe it's me coming from the rave scene full of twink guys, transvestites and a large amount of bisexuality; but I've never felt people at conventions were "out to get the gays" or whatever nonsense.

In fact, I've found most of them to be welcoming and accepting of really weird shit, especially at anime conventions. A guy's walking around with a love pillow of what looks to be an illegally young girl, sex toys from Japan and shipman underwear? No one bats an eye. Why would someone care if you like to sex up some dudes?

I personally do see it as segregation, of sorts. We don't have "gay restaurants" or "gay buses" or "gay offices". Why do we need a gaming convention for gays? For example, in my school there was a "Christian Club" for christians to gather and do, well I dunno, religious stuff I guess. There was also an "Asian Christian Club". Why was this needed? I even knew some Asians who were really upset about how the Asian students kept making "Asian" versions of all the clubs; saying it promoted segregation and was practically racist. The odd caveat being, per university policy, you could not exclude anyone from a club due to race, sexuality, etc.

Yes there are gay, lesbian and bisexual clubs in universities. Yes there are bars for gay men and women. But these are for the explicit purpose of meeting people of your own sexuality, something it can be difficult to do in "normal" (and I'm sorry to word it like that) bars, due to the stigma. To me, conventions were never thought of as nightclubs. I wasn't there to pick up people, I was there to celebrate the collective hobbies and passtimes that some of us maybe take way too seriously; no matter their race or sexuality. I talked up a gay guy cosplaying as peach at fanexpo this year; he was a pretty nice guy. I didn't think it was weird at all.

If the gaymercon were a celebration of gay rights, I'd be 100% on board. I might even go!

I dunno, maybe this is a very American problem. I don't know how homosexuals are treated down there. Maybe I'm just ignorant. We have a Christian pasture in my family, and he gets so mad hearing about gay people being persecuted simply for their sexuality. I've heard him rant for half an hour about it before. Even my 80 year old grandparents couldn't care less about someone's sexuality. Perhaps I've been privileged to grow up in an open minded environment?
 

XSin

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Jul 21, 2009
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Lets not forget the best thing about Gaymer Con. . . Booth Bros xD

Actually you'd want some eyecandy for the chicks too so I can imagine that there would be Booth Babes also, hell, they probably don't even get harassed to the point of self-loathing and murderous wrath (as I've been told is common for promo girls at hetero-male dominated events)
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Alcaste said:
I'm going to post this (though it's already been posted before) because people don't seem to be reading it. It addresses a lot of the issues for sure, and is probably the only time I can tolerate the person who wrote it.

http://www.destructoid.com/the-importance-of-a-gay-gamer-convention-232467.phtml
This line alone makes it worth the read for me:

You can argue that LGBT people are "segregating themselves" by grouping together, but they were already pretty damn segregated -- not to mention alone. It can be lonely, and fucking terrifying to be gay. Just this week, through the social networks and grinning right-wing pundits, even I felt a level of fear by the hatred and venom being directed at the LGBT community over a fucking chicken sandwich.
He's also got a point with privilege, because a lot of people really don't know what it's like to be singled out like that. The arguments about self-segregation come from people who don't seem aware that the LGBT community gets treated like crap, period.
 

thenumberthirteen

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Dec 19, 2007
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Susan Arendt said:
Falterfire said:
Hoplon said:
Hilarity of my jokes aside, why do you care if they have a gaymer con? Need or not, they want it and since these thing exist entirely to satisfy want there is one.
Well, that's just the point: Attempting to understand the desire for such an event. After all, sexuality and gaming are not things that appear excessively connected at first glance. It's especially important to ask the question in case the answer is 'because gaymers don't feel comfortable at regular conventions.' If it's just something that happens because hey, why not, then we can just move on, but quite a few of us nerd types would like to be able to take pride in our culture being one of the most welcoming to everybody, and if it isn't, we'd like to know that.
Ok, let me give you an analogy. You are in a room with your friends and the group is entirely male. You tend to wind up speaking and acting a certain way - maybe you swear a little more, maybe you care less about farting, maybe you bring up hot girls a little more than you would if there were a girl present. It's a subtle shift in behavior that isn't a big deal in and of itself, but it makes you more comfortable because you don't feel like you have to pay extra attention to what you say and how you say it. (Same thing is true in reverse, by the way - women change how they talk and behave when a man is in the group.)

If that analogy doesn't work for you, you can use any people who make you fundamentally monitor how you behave - your parents, teachers, coworkers, whatever.

Point is, it's not so much about existing cons being rampantly homophobic (though sure, sometimes that happens), but rather creating an environment where you don't have to worry about that at all. You walk through the door more able to be comfortably you, expressing all aspects of your personality. Sexuality informs many aspects of our life, big and small - everything from the clothes we wear to the entertainment we like to the kind of character we want to talk about to the cosplay we admire. No, it's not like attendees would necessarily be WOOO I'M GAYYYYYY the entire time they're at the show, but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.

Plenty of gaymers have wonderful experiences at cons, but I love the idea of GaymerCon. A place where people can feel safe as welcome as they celebrate their geekitude? Fantastic!
Thank you Susan. When I hear you say things like this I truly see why you're in charge because you know what you're talking about.

I love the idea of GaymerCon (now GaymerX), and I'd love to go if it weren't on another continent (though I donated to the Kickstarter and got some funky stickers). It makes me sad to see people just not get it, and even get legitimately angry at the idea.

It can be really scary expressing your feelings among strangers, and even people you know and love (I was so scared to tell my parents). The idea of having a fun convention mixing the two things I love most, gaming and my boyfriend, sounds pretty good to me :)
 

squid5580

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Hoplon said:
Falterfire said:
Hoplon said:
Because old bean there is a wide streak of both Homophobia and misogyny in gaming culture. Shit just look at anything like tropes vs women in game furore for a premium example of exactly what is wrong with gamer culture.
The thing about prejudices is that they tend to be invisible (or at least appear significantly more minor) when you are not among the group the prejudice is against. Bits of Homophobia which are obvious to gays (As mentioned above, the prevalence of the word 'fag' as a generic slur) are not always obvious to straight gamers who just don't consider such things.

By asking that question, it becomes possible to progress from 'Is there a problem with gaming culture?' to 'What, specifically, is wrong with gaming culture?' It's impossible to fix a problem if a large portion of the people responsible are unaware (Or simply are unaware that people actually care) that there's a problem.
Fine high minded thinking. Which naturally means that the very people that need to ask the question to see it never will.

Hence the want for things like geek girl con [http://www.geekgirlcon.com/] and gaymer con.
But if someone were to make a "straight white male con" there would be hell to pay.