On Nihilistic Villains...

[SckizoBoy]

Seriously, what is the point of them?

What brings this on is that I, rather foolishly, decided to watch Trigun and Trinity Blood in parallel... not a good idea... ends up I was basically watching the same series with different HD levels... ¬_¬

Anyway, worse than nihilistic[footnote]Yes, yes, I know, rather misappropriated use of the word 'nihilism' (and variants), but you chaps/chappesses should be smart enough to know what I'm going on about... -_-[/footnote] badguys... their underlings... do they have any meaning whatsoever?

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Well, one has to consider the context of the storyline and the point the author is attempting to make through it (since most villains are merely obstacles worth overcoming).

Chaos in of itself is a simple concept normally depicted as something that needs to be corrected. The stability of life or the cosmos being at stake, or whathaveyou. The Hero isn't necessarily fighting the specific person, but more the tangible representation of the idea (really what most villains are).

Then one can consider the likes of the Joker, who are horribly nihilistic for shits and grins. Much like lulsec or any anarchist organization. They prattle against the establishment because it serves for either entertainment value or because they have nothing better to do with their time. This may be an interesting take on the failures of said establishment through the expressive viewpoints of citizens been given the shaft by it's structure (which can be quite fascinating), or just an angsty rebellious phase some people go through during their upbringing.

Perhaps it's someone who's devoted themselves to the ideals of the establishment their entire lives only to have a realization that it's a well crafted lie and human nature is the only truth.

Maybe they're just selfishly fighting against it to impose their own unique brand of civilization.

Well... there are many purposes to Nihilistic villains, part of the fun is uncovering their reasons and then exploring them. Of course, the trick is writing them well.

 

[DoPo]

Anyway, worse than nihilistic badguys... their underlings... do they have any meaning whatsoever?

I don't know if you wrote that intentionally or not but it's a damn fine win in my book at any rate

Anyway, these kinds of villains are just dead easy to portray. That's why they show up so often. Still, some do end up quite good, but it takes effort, especially to stand out from the crowd. Johan Liebert from Monster is a fine example of a nihilistic villain done well, IMO.

 

[M K Ultra]

Seriously, what is the point of them?

There is no point & that's their point.

 

[JellySlimerMan]

We need some music that fits the "meaningless" of this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQo4K9MhINw

Better yet, how many types of Nihilistic asshole you know? i only know 2.

1)The one that kills everyone because life is painful and its doing us a favor?

2)The one that kills everyone or lecture everyone because humans are animals that have been deluded into thinking they are at the top of the food chain and masters of their own destiny, but we are not so different from even a bacteria. We rationale our actions with concepts like honor, justice that are lies so transparent that doesnt really justify our existance into the world. We always tell ourselves to just live on without caring for this existencial problems, but are we doing that because they are really unnesesary? or because as animals, we do whatever it takes to live and reproduce, and thus avoid any thought that may prevent us from doing the same shit it that has always been over and over?

Hell, not even The Ubermench is safe from being meaningless when IT decides to fabricate its own meaning.

Anyway, worse than nihilistic badguys... their underlings... do they have any meaning whatsoever?

It would be believable if the Nihilist branwashed them or can ressurect the dead minions with perfect memory, so they can remember all the pain of past lives to the point of becoming insane searching True Death (that only the Nihilistic knows how to reach it.......if they follow his orders)

 

[Vegosiux]

Anyway, worse than nihilistic badguys... their underlings... do they have any meaning whatsoever?

I don't know if you wrote that intentionally or not but it's a damn fine win in my book at any rate

Anyway, these kinds of villains are just dead easy to portray. That's why they show up so often. Still, some do end up quite good, but it takes effort, especially to stand out from the crowd. Johan Liebert from Monster is a fine example of a nihilistic villain done well, IMO.

Spoiler: My favorite nihilist villain is

Shuji Ikutsuki, Persona 3. He's done well because, while he's a true nihilist dead set on bringing about The Fall, he's also a genuinely cheerful, jovial person who loves cracking (more or less lame) jokes all the time - evident that he's like that even when alone, so you can't say it's just an image he puts up for others.

Damn backstabbing sonnuvabitch, he was, but a damn finely written villain. Basically, he has a distinct personality, and would be a lovely guy to hang out with if he didn't also happen to want to bring about the end of the world as we know it because...he feels that's the way it should go.

But I agree with your assertion, in addition to such villains being easy to write, they have the added bonus of often relaying this "So cool and edgy and I bet he (almost always it's a "he") just needs a hug." [http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/canonfanondrako_3385.jpg] Which I personally despise as an easy cop-out for writers who just didn't give a damn or are simply not up to the task.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Is this one of those situations where "nihilistic" is mistakenly used in place of "sociopathic"?

We're talking Joker, Anton Chigurh, Lord Naritsugu?

 

[Ishal]

Anyway, worse than nihilistic badguys... their underlings... do they have any meaning whatsoever?

I don't know if you wrote that intentionally or not but it's a damn fine win in my book at any rate

Anyway, these kinds of villains are just dead easy to portray. That's why they show up so often. Still, some do end up quite good, but it takes effort, especially to stand out from the crowd. Johan Liebert from Monster is a fine example of a nihilistic villain done well, IMO.

Ninja'd!!! Curses!

OT: I'd say my favorite Nihilistic villain is from the series by Robert Jordan, The Wheel of Time.

Spoiler

Elan Morin Tedronai/Ishamael/Ba'alzamon/ all the same guy. He is for all intents and purposes the main antagonist of the series. He went over to the evil side simply because he knew that eventually evil would win. In the wheel of time, there is a thing called .. erm.. the wheel of time.. it spins threads in the pattern of time and as it turns cycles of rebirth and reincarnation occur, think of it as the plot of LOTR happening over and over without end. Ishamael, who was a philosopher (a nihilistic one) discovered the truth about the wheel, and reasoned that eventually, the dark one or ultimate evil would eventually break free of his prison and destroy the wheel, ending the endless cycles. In his mind it didn't matter if he and his side lost each epic struggle in each life he lived...all they needed was to win once, and they would win totally and completely. In the books he is the most clever villain but also the most insane. He is insane because 1) he figured all that stuff out and it apparently caused him mental trauma 2) He has been living for a VERY long time and uses magic that is known to corrupt the minds of those who use it. My main reason for liking him is that he has a casual conversation by a hearth with the hero in one of the later books. The hero says "I killed you blah blah, you'll never win blah blah" He simply responds by saying that simply by existing and allowing the wheel to turn nobody wins... that he was killed by the hero a thousand times and that he has killed the hero a thousand times. It maddening,saddening, and most of all tiring. He just wants it to end to be at peace. For me, feeling both heartfelt sadness and fatigue at the same time is one of the worst feelings in the world, so I get his motive. If I were him burdened by such saddening knowledge of the truth I might be much like he is

 

[Waffle_Man]

There are two reasons Nihilistic villains are put into fiction:

1. When done well, they serve as a nice complement to much more thought out characters by being a hypothetical extreme.

2. More commonly though, they serve as a way of covering lazy writers from having to justify their villain's choices. Want to have the character do something really evil? Morality doesn't matter. Want to have them do something petty? Success doesn't matter. Want to have them do something that completely contradicts absolutely every thing that they have done up to this point? Consistency doesn't matter.

Bonus points if the entire justification for their world view is never explored or explained beyond "because I can."

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Score one for ironic posts.

Nihilism is a popular motivation for villains because it's the complete opposite philosophy of the average group of spunky adventurers who have become friends. It's also fairly simple for the average viewer to understand, particularly in a fictional setting much worse off than our current world- 'Life sucks and then you die, so why don't we just skip straight to step 2 and get it over with?'.

Another aspect of it is supreme arrogance if the villain considers all life outside their own to be irrelevant for whatever reason (because they're so much smarter, more powerful, have ascended to a higher level of being, etc.), and that kind of supreme arrogance is of course another primarily villainous trait that can often make them truly detestable despite whatever tragic experiences they might have had to make them think this way.

'What is life? Merely a protein-based form of energy consumption. It is really nothing special.' -Dr. Caulder, though in his case he's more just 'science devoid of morality'.