On the PC Master Race and the Language Police

teamcharlie

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Good points by Yahtzee, in response to a very silly article.

Newsflash: there were Nazis. They're all dead. Like, all of them. The youngest a Nazi could be right now is fucking 70 years old. I'm not afraid of a seventy-year-old, and I'm not afraid that people on reddit playing WoW are going to start the fourth reich. Chill.
 

cleric of the order

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warmachine said:
I support the language police but 'master race' is not a problem in this case. First, no one's ever going to think they're going to have the lives crushed by entertainment hardware. Second, the Nazis were destroyed over a generation ago. So, yes, the Nazis can now be pillaged as a source of cheap amusement.
even then Ubermench was lifted from Nietzsche who sort of ripped of the greeks.
This thing has passed through more hands then east Europe (especially the baltics and the last of the roman i mean Byzantine empire)
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Ishal said:
I mean, yeah... yeah he has. It's kinda his job. Particularly the always under fire AAA games where the so called "problems" are. Strange that he doesn't see anything "pernicious" huh?
and if he doesn't think its bad its not bad?

Shit, man. I know. It sucks when sensible people don't want to join my particular echo chamber.

Look, Vault. I know where you stand on these issues. That's your prerogative. But when you come to a yahtzee article of all things and blame the man for taking the middle ground, and not taking a side, specifically your side... well, it looks kinda bad.
the problem I have is that I don't see him being all that "sensible" eather

I get the impression he's clearly dismissing either the idea of discussion or the issues themselves as "hysterical moralising" and then of coarse feeds into what people want to hear about the nature of language and freedom of speech and going up against the establishment blah blah blah because people LOVE that, it absolves them of considering anything that runs counter to their views while giving them the moral "shield"

but my problem here is not that he disagrees with my viewpoint but he's feeding into that idea that sticking to a perceived "middle ground" or "neutrality" regardless of the actual facts as an easy way of being "right" or "above it" or "le logical"

except not everything is a perfect Yin Yang Balance of eaqual oposites, some sides are just not effing equal


it promotes the mentality that unless an issue completely and totally obvious *ism* then it doesn't bear thinking about and an attempt to do so is silly and an affront to free speech/edginess/whatever

Yahtzee can think whatever he wants but I don't belive he's as "neutral" as he claims
 

Varis

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Feb 24, 2012
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I just read the link-article, and I just ask... Was that written by a twelve-year old? Since the whole thing was "I'm not committing to anything, I just try to be funny and do that by pointing out the nazi reference in the words "master race". Did I say that? No no, what I meant was nothing is nothing and I try to make a point of nothing"

No one is mad at being PC "master race", it's just a fact that PC's, have upgradable hardware, they do everything always better than whatever consoles too, because in the end consoles are just PC packages. They have their hardware, and that's that = It can't be made better.

So, everyone should, and naturally (in this day and age) have a PC. But, in terms of gaming, why not have both? I know I have. I like how I can play my PC game-ish games on my PC and well, due to the simplicity of it, some games on my console, due to the stable, factory-built hardware they have.
 

Middle_Index

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Mar 6, 2014
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I use the term PC Master Race with a serious face... its to help me get over paying £400 on a gfx (that i wish was better) and still having to wait to play gta5 for the first time a year and a half later.

I like my pc. Though the PC has is own set of problems to deal with, we should be allowed to be dicks and be proud in something we have built from the ground up (and having to cross our fingers the 1st time we boot her up.). PC owners always get the raw end of the deal i.e all the horrible ports and having to wait for game they wont even confirms coming out till the last minute. saying "PC Master Race" is just a way to make up for being last when its comes to gaming.

How can someone be just as passionate after buying a bike from a shop compared to someone whos just finished building a car.

Great read Ben.
 

Rozalia1

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I actually started reading the comments in the article now and bloody hell its a goldmine. Certain users from here are posting there too and lord help me their defenses are down dramatically.

They also allow me to cut some of the chaff and get straight to the point so I'll address it below as otherwise I'd have to "Snip".

Thanatos2k said:
But is there something wrong with looking down on someone who defends something that is inherently inferior? When someone can't justify an argument, they should be looked down upon.

That's usually where elitist gets thrown in, when someone runs out of arguments - just call them elitist. That way it doesn't matter that they're right because they're being SMUG about it, and you're just a victim of them acting superior. ELITIST has become the ad hominem attack, not the other way around.
... Not an elitist but thinks its perfectly fine to look down on others for making different choices than his heavenly self. You couldn't make it up its that ridiculous.

However if we go by your logic that I am in full rights to proclaim myself above you correct? Funny thing is people often have a problem acknowledging that... I wonder why...

Oh and yes I am aware of "your" many consoles that self destructed in some manner... that is about as credible as The Ascension looked Monday night considering the posts you've been coming out with. No one who actually is multiplatform like me would carry themselves in such an extreme manner, talk Scotland all you like.

Signa said:
I don't really follow PC gamer, so I'm not sure what point you're making.
Neither do I but I've been linked to enough of their articles by certain folk to get a good enough perception of what its all about.
To say it reeks of "console-centric publication" is ridiculous, as is trying to link AAA/consoles with it all.

The "more businesses desperately try to justify their existence" was puzzling as earlier you said "getting frustrated on the power and market share the PC has gained"... so if its so grand why would a business whose primarily function is "championing" PCs be in such danger? Perhaps I misunderstand and you're talking about Ubisoft... or something.
 

Adraeus

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Sam Squires said:
Your claim that you don't see the game industry suffering because of misogyny is a glaring example of how privilege colors our perceptions.
Yahtzee didn't say that. He wrote:

Yahtzee Croshaw said:
If you want to know the truth, there have been many occasions when I started writing something about the GG-word, and then stopped myself a few sentences in when I realized what I was doing. [...] I've never been interested in hype or the drama behind game development, only in the finished products, and so far I've seen nothing to indicate that games are being negatively affected by either misogyny or hysterical misplaced moralizing.
Yahtzee was alluding to the misogyny of GamerGate and the moralizing of SJWs, and he actually claimed that neither have had a negative impact on the games he has played. Whether misogyny and moralizing have had a negative impact on the game industry is not a topic that Yahtzee broached in this article.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Sam Squires said:
Your claim that you don't see the game industry suffering because of misogyny is a glaring example of how privilege colors our perceptions. .
jesus dude! don't you know not to use that word?

thems fighting words!
Adraeus said:
Yahtzee was alluding to the misogyny of GamerGate and the moralizing of SJWs, and he actually claimed that neither have had a negative impact on the games he has played. Whether misogyny and moralizing have had a negative impact on the game industry is not a topic that Yahtzee broached in this article.
you mean to say that misogyny Bourne from GG (or otherwise) hasn't negatively affected games? I don't think most people expected GG to amount to anything more than fart in the wind

but "hysterical misplaced moralizing" leads me to belive he's not as neutral as he claims
 

IceForce

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I just like using the term to troll people.

It's remarkably effective, as this thread proves.
 

Atmos Duality

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Yahtzee said:
...and so far I've seen nothing to indicate that games are being negatively affected by either misogyny or hysterical misplaced moralizing.
That is easily the most sensible thing I've seen on that ugly subject in quite some time.
I don't always agree with your opinions or attitude, Mr. Crowshaw, but you definitely have my respect and agreement here.

If anything, games (mainstream) are suffering more from stagnation and conformity towards a hard set of "cardinal rule" design criteria than any hardline moral issues. I'd go so far to say that on average, few games are provocative or "liberal" to any truly offensive degree and would be morally bankrupt only in the sense that most (or the biggest) are products of cynical business rather than culture.

It's rather telling how so many games didn't become "misogynist" until a few particular political hacks (unfortunately) garnered attention. The amount of backpedaling, retroactive classification and condemnation I've seen on their part in the past year alone has been nothing short of stunning; or more accurately, stunningly stupid.

One can say it's only a matter of criticism(opinion) and interpretation, and in some cases I can agree with that, but there's a limit to that excuse.

There's a big difference between analyzing something and forming an opinion about it given a personal context, and altering (or ignoring) known context to make it fit a specific, limited perspective and prerogative: That's called "an agenda", not "criticism", and it's alarming how many people can't tell the difference.

You don't have to like a game or any work, but to preach moral imperative and condemn something (or someone, ala the audience by proxy) because of things in the work that you personally do not like is pretense at its rawest and most petty.

Fact is, anyone can "interpret" anything to mean anything they want with enough social pressure, facts be damned, as long as there are enough of ignorant suckers out there looking for some convenient boogeyman to rail against (and lets face it: there are); Especially if it's something to pin their problems on.

Sure, it's meaningless babel in reality, but the hallmark of politics (and the moralizing saber rattling that comes with it) is taking the meaningless and selling it to the ignorant as something important.

To think there are people acting dismissive or even hostile towards an incredibly broad culture based on a few (badly researched and argued) "criticisms" -is-, literally, nothing short of hysterical.
 

Signa

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Rozalia1 said:
Signa said:
I don't really follow PC gamer, so I'm not sure what point you're making.
Neither do I but I've been linked to enough of their articles by certain folk to get a good enough perception of what its all about.
To say it reeks of "console-centric publication" is ridiculous, as is trying to link AAA/consoles with it all.

The "more businesses desperately try to justify their existence" was puzzling as earlier you said "getting frustrated on the power and market share the PC has gained"... so if its so grand why would a business whose primarily function is "championing" PCs be in such danger? Perhaps I misunderstand and you're talking about Ubisoft... or something.
Mostly speculating aloud. What I did say does apply more to Ubi than PC Gamer, and that is a good explanation for what we saw. Journalist sleeps with Ubi chick, Ubi chick says PC Gaming is an issue for her company, journalist writes the best article he can to satisfy her and still be about PC Gamer stuff. It's just far fetched enough that I don't think it really happened that way, but anything else I can come up with is equally confusing. The tone of that article was all wrong.
 

Dizchu

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Sep 23, 2014
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When it comes to PC vs console debates, I don't often see people say that the PC is not only a games machine but a powerful multimedia tool. Long before the Xbox One claimed to be "the hub of entertainment", a PC could play music, videos, games, browse the internet, run applications, make games...

That's why I believe the PC is better than consoles. Not because of greater hardware but because I regard my desktop as a toolbox, or indeed a desktop where I can use my tools to go about everyday life and craft my own experiences. The keyboard and mouse are also what I'd regard as the best controller input, as anyone who knows how to touch-type can effortlessly and precisely control the play experience (as long as the game is competently programmed).

PC games just seem a lot more involved whereas console games have a barrier for me. I'm sitting on a sofa, a few metres away from a TV, controlling my character with a relatively imprecise controller. It can be fun but if I could play the same game on my PC I'd enjoy it so much more. Maybe it's because many people treat video games like interactive films, whereas I treat them like I would a book. A book won't read itself, you have to pay close attention and preferably get rid of distractions. This is just how I feel, I'm not preaching gospel.

The main thing that prevents console gamers from migrating to PC is the fact that not everyone has a PC these days. A decade ago many more people used PCs regularly but now the casual consumer will most likely do their web browsing and media experiencing on a phone, tablet or Macbook, none of which lend themselves particularly well to non-mobile gaming.

Vault101 said:
I get the impression he's clearly dismissing either the idea of discussion or the issues themselves as "hysterical moralising" and then of coarse feeds into what people want to hear about the nature of language and freedom of speech and going up against the establishment blah blah blah because people LOVE that, it absolves them of considering anything that runs counter to their views while giving them the moral "shield"

but my problem here is not that he disagrees with my viewpoint but he's feeding into that idea that sticking to a perceived "middle ground" or "neutrality" regardless of the actual facts as an easy way of being "right" or "above it" or "le logical"

except not everything is a perfect Yin Yang Balance of eaqual oposites, some sides are just not effing equal


it promotes the mentality that unless an issue completely and totally obvious *ism* then it doesn't bear thinking about and an attempt to do so is silly and an affront to free speech/edginess/whatever

Yahtzee can think whatever he wants but I don't belive he's as "neutral" as he claims
Yahtzee has displayed concern with issues regarding representation of gender and race in his reviews before, often mocking "token" characters and unironic sexism. The difference between that and "hysterical moralising" is that he isn't claiming that games encourage misogyny or racism or homophobia or whatever. It's the difference between finding Call of Duty to be an uncomfortable glamorisation of warfare and believing that it'll directly cause the next Columbine.

There is indeed a middle ground. One where issues are considered but not used to rally troops against oppressive forces like "the sexist video game industry" or "social justice warriors". Yahtzee is firmly in this middle ground and he's placed himself there not out of believing that his viewpoint is superior to everyone else's, but because he finds merit in arguments both "sides" raise and probably is concerned with many problems neither "side" addresses. Of course, that implies that there are definitive "sides" in the first place, and that is merely an illusion.
 

Jake Martinez

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I think an obvious comparison here is between how the term "PC Master Race" is used ironically compared to the (well, let's be honest, far more offensive) terms used ironically by some internet feminists like "KillAllMen" and "I drink male tears".

There was an article in Slate not too long ago by Amanda Hess talking about "Ironic Misandry" (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/08/08/ironic_misandry_why_feminists_joke_about_drinking_male_tears_and_banning.html) and her take away was, "Hey this is just funny and I'm glad it exists."

Okay, fine. I feel the same way about "PC Master Race" as a term. It's funny and if you don't like it i'll just give you the middle finger and laugh, which is pretty much the appropriate response in all these cases of faux outrage.

As far as I'm concerned, that ought to be the end of that discussion - but I understand that's just because I'm willing to not give a shit about people ironically calling for the execution of my gender (It's too ludicrously stupid to take seriously). That aside, the way people are, there is no way to end this situation. Everyone is going to be offended by stuff that other people do. Some people will be like this dork who tries to equate "PC Master Race" with "Nazism", which I think most reasonable people recognize as just concern trolling.

That being said there is no end to this in sight. People will always be upset or annoyed by something someone else says and rest assured there is an industry of people out there willing to try and capitalize off of this stuff as much as they can. The only options you have are to either give no fucks, or to engage and argue. Getting annoyed at this happening isn't really an option, you might as well get mad at people for breathing. It's just how humans are.
 

EternallyBored

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DizzyChuggernaut said:
The main thing that prevents console gamers from migrating to PC is the fact that not everyone has a PC these days. A decade ago many more people used PCs regularly but now the casual consumer will most likely do their web browsing and media experiencing on a phone, tablet or Macbook, none of which lend themselves particularly well to non-mobile gaming.
I think another big factor is just knowledge and time, people on forums like these often forget that they are generally a lot more tech-savvy than the average population, and that if you start talking about building a gaming PC or futzing with graphical settings, and drivers you are going to end up with people just saying, "fuck it" and going to a mobile game that they can just start with a tap, or a console that easily sits near a T.V. and is generally much more streamlined then dealing with installs on a PC.

I love my gaming PC, but dealing with my more casual gaming friends, where gaming isn't their main hobby, or they are too busy to dedicate much time to gaming, a PC has a daunting barrier to entry and a learning curve that they have no interest in engaging in when they only have time to invest in maybe 4 or 5 games a year, and online only matters insofar as getting them on for a couple rounds on their preferred shooter or sports game. I've offered to actually build a PC for them if they wanted one, but they rarely express interest in a desktop, and laptops tend to be geared more towards business requirements for them rather than gaming.

To be honest, I can't blame them for it either, on my busier days, the prospect of choosing between booting up my PC or one of my consoles tends to fall more towards the consoles, partially just for simplicity's sake, it always just feels a lot easier and faster to sit down with a console when I've only got an hour or two to play, I save the PC games for when I've got an afternoon or the whole day to game. I could hook my PC up to my TV and play that way, but with my multi-monitor setup in another room from the bigscreen T.V., it just never seems worth the effort.
 

RubyT

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I'm a PC gamer for the sole reason of Keyboard-and-Mouse. If I could attach them to a console, I'd strongly consider switching. Sitting somewhat upright on my (comfy) desk chair with the giant 30" screen filling my field-of-view and controlling the game with Keyboard-and-Mouse feels so much more immediate and immersive than slouching on the sofa with a gamepad.

But I don't consider myself to be part of a superior, more worthy, more enthusiast group of gamers. The only thing objectively bad about consoles is that they hold technical evolution back. PS4/Xbone will probably stick around until the next decade and so game engine development will soon stagnate on the level of a midrange PC from 2013. That makes me a bit sad.

EDIT: So the captcha asks me what I associate with Portland, Oregon. I'd like to see the range of accepted answers on that one. I'm not American, so the best I could muster was west coast. Trailblazers was on my mind too. But I dread the day the captcha asks "What do you associate with Baltimore?"...
 

Strazdas

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Magicite Spring said:
The major pro for me is that my PS4 will be able to play Bloodborne and Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, aka, the two games I'm looking forward to the most this year, which is something no PC will be able to do.
So your major pro for console gaming is console gaming holding games hostage. Well thats one way of looking at it i guess.



Johnny Novgorod said:
Then why bother? :)
Because someone reading this thread may learn something new about PC gaming and learn that PC can do things they did not though it could before. That someone may even be you.

Biran53 said:
All I know is that it only seems practical to get my potential future children a console first. What are they gonna do with a desktop Gaming PC?
Everything they could do on console and more?

JarinArenos said:
Strazdas said:
please tell me your just baiting.
Says the guy showing off the troll pride flag? :p
I used the troll flag to show that this kind of mockery flags existed for decades and the PCMR are hardly unique or innovative there.

Lunar Templar said:
LMAO, what? wow ... well, thanks for giving me more reason to mock these people mercilessly I guess.
May the hate flow through you!

RubyT said:
EDIT: So the captcha asks me what I associate with Portland, Oregon. I'd like to see the range of accepted answers on that one. I'm not American, so the best I could muster was west coast. Trailblazers was on my mind too. But I dread the day the captcha asks "What do you associate with Baltimore?"...
the "Asociation" capcha accepts any answer. i often just type a period sign to get along.
 
Apr 24, 2008
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I think there's a bothersome propensity to deny that others have the ability for nuance. I don't know how often a term like this actually gets used "unironically", but I don't feel like I've seen it... Definitely never in a scenario where I'd imagine it was 100% totes serious, completely lacking in any kind of intended humour.

At any rate, I've now read 2 articles about this completely unimportant thing. We really are living up bat-shit creek.
 

Scow2

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Thanatos2k said:
They tried to destroy the evidence, which as we know never ever works, and PC Gamer eventually issued one of those "We're sorry we got caught we will try to be more transparent in the future" admissions.
Wait... the rest of the internet didn't try to cover it up with them and decry everyone involved in exposing it as bigots and haters and terrorists?

Was this person male or female?
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
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J Tyran said:
Evonisia said:
Now to go back to being a member of the glorious multi-platform master race.
Is that a double oreo by your mouse? If so, you win regardless of how many platforms you own.

Regardless, glorious looking display.