One thing I never understood about a Zombie Apocalypse.

Samtemdo8

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Specifically Zombies of the Viral Outbreak variety.

What's stopping the Zombies from eating each other when no other fresh living creature is around?
 
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SilentPony

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Okay so with a viral outbreak are we going with they're reanimated corpses, or are they just humans driven crazy? 'cause if they're dead, maybe they see other zombies as dead too and that makes them a no-no for eating, other sources say zombies see/hunt by infra red and so dead people/other zombies don't show up to them. Still others say they need to eat a fresh brain because the impulses can give them some memories back and it dulls the pain of being a zombie.
As far as crazy humans, good question, although depending on the virus maybe the virus itself forces them to attack non-infected people.

I'm more concerned how zombies can continue to move/run for extended periods of time. After a while the muscles should break down and all zombies collapse under their own snapping tendons and ruptured calf muscles.
 

BrawlMan

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I'm more concerned how zombies can continue to move/run for extended periods of time. After a while the muscles should break down and all zombies collapse under their own snapping tendons and ruptured calf muscles.
Funny enough, the Resident Evil 2 remake implies this. You will notice it with the details in the zombies and the concept art for them. There are parts of them that are decaying around about mouth area or are falling apart. And that's assuming they don't turn into a Licker. Granted, that was a retcon Capcom made when they did the Outbreak games. Originally, the Lickers werer a separate lab mutation that nothing to do with zombies. Other than being made with the T-Virus.
 
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SilentPony

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Funny enough, the Resident Evil 2 remake implies this. You will notice it with the details in the zombies and the concept art for them. There are parts of them that are decaying around about mouth area or are falling apart. And that's assuming they don't turn into a Licker. Granted, that was a retcon Capcom made when they did the Outbreak games. Originally, the Lickers werer a separate lab mutation that nothing to do with zombies. Other than being made with the T-Virus.
I thought lickers were the end result of a human being infected with the t-virus and not dying from it, they mutate out of control into at least a licker.
Dead/dying humans turn into zombies, fresh living ones who survive mutate into something.
 

Agema

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Specifically Zombies of the Viral Outbreak variety.

What's stopping the Zombies from eating each other when no other fresh living creature is around?
Presumably, they "sense" living flesh as different from zombie. More below.

Okay so with a viral outbreak are we going with they're reanimated corpses, or are they just humans driven crazy? 'cause if they're dead, maybe they see other zombies as dead too and that makes them a no-no for eating, other sources say zombies see/hunt by infra red and so dead people/other zombies don't show up to them. Still others say they need to eat a fresh brain because the impulses can give them some memories back and it dulls the pain of being a zombie.
As far as crazy humans, good question, although depending on the virus maybe the virus itself forces them to attack non-infected people.

I'm more concerned how zombies can continue to move/run for extended periods of time. After a while the muscles should break down and all zombies collapse under their own snapping tendons and ruptured calf muscles.
Let's assume we try to create a scientifically reasonable explanation for zombies.

The most obvious one is viral. So, imagine a virus is capable of changing cellular activity so that the tissues can retain some form of life and functionality long after an uninfected body would decay to uselessness: perhaps by cannibalising non-essential parts of the body (as human bodies do in starvation - muscle wastage, etc. - but much more extreme).

To answer Samtemdo, that virus also has it's own drive to survive, and so it does not want to consume other virus. So it affects the nerves, receptors (smell, sight, etc.) to not target other sources of viral infection. Maybe the virus causes a host to release a chemical like a pheromone, which puts off other infected hosts from attacking it; perhaps some small semblance of the people's cognition remains, hijacked by the virus, which can also apply to sound, sight, etc. to recognise valid food sources.
 
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BrawlMan

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I thought lickers were the end result of a human being infected with the t-virus and not dying from it, they mutate out of control into at least a licker.
You are correct, but that was not the case in the original Resident Evil 2. The recon came afterwards with the crimson heads in REmake and Outbreak File #2. It goes zombie then crimson head, and then Licker. Provided the zombie didn't die in between any of those stages. After that, a file in RE5 says they're capable of reproduction.
 

stroopwafel

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Presumably, they "sense" living flesh as different from zombie. More below.



Let's assume we try to create a scientifically reasonable explanation for zombies.

The most obvious one is viral. So, imagine a virus is capable of changing cellular activity so that the tissues can retain some form of life and functionality long after an uninfected body would decay to uselessness: perhaps by cannibalising non-essential parts of the body (as human bodies do in starvation - muscle wastage, etc. - but much more extreme).

To answer Samtemdo, that virus also has it's own drive to survive, and so it does not want to consume other virus. So it affects the nerves, receptors (smell, sight, etc.) to not target other sources of viral infection. Maybe the virus causes a host to release a chemical like a pheromone, which puts off other infected hosts from attacking it; perhaps some small semblance of the people's cognition remains, hijacked by the virus, which can also apply to sound, sight, etc. to recognise valid food sources.
Very cool theory but I always wondered how can a virus replicate in cells of people who are, well, dead? How would the natural selection you describe even work?
 

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My Dad always gives questions like these the same, sarcastic answer "because its in the script!"

But, it is an interesting question.

It wouldn't be that they can sense living creatures, or the recently dead, because most zombies would happily start munching on a corpse that is days old, but ignore a zombie that just turned seconds ago.

Presumably if they killed a person, started eating the body, and then that body turned, the zombie would stop trying to eat it.

Best I can suggest would be some kind of hivemind consume/reproduce mentality.

Zombies can sense meat, and zombies can sense each other. If it is meat, it will try to turn it into a zombie, and keep on biting/eating it until it either turns, or is fully devoured. If it is already a zombie, then it'll ignore it.

Also because it is in the script
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Cause zombies don't like to eat smelly things so they only go after good smelling living characters.
 
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Agema

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Very cool theory but I always wondered how can a virus replicate in cells of people who are, well, dead? How would the natural selection you describe even work?
Your body is a collection of trillions of cells, all of which are in their own way individually alive, and work together for the greater good of the organism that is you. So when you die because of a critical failure, it's actually that the organisation of these cells to function as a whole has been fatally compromised: but the cells themselves individually keep going. Your brain cells last for a few minutes. Your muscle cells for a few hours. Your skin and bone cells for a few days. And if they're still going, so can any virus using them. And maybe a virus could repurpose them to a new organisational capability.

The logic here might be that the virus carries genetic material capable of altering human cellular activity sufficiently to continue functioning under the conditions of organism death. Let's put cards on the table now: it's not realistic. That's too much genetic alteration, too much of our bodies are set up to work in specific conditions. (Bacteria, more plausible: they're much bigger to carry enough genetic material, but even still effectively creating a massive replacement genetic code is a phenomenal task.).

The obvious limit is oxygen and energy requirements. The energy requirements for undeath would have to be incredibly low (zombies are cold, implying vast metabolic reduction). They're slow, also implying low metabolism. Mostly anaerobic respiration, then? The lack of blood flow is immensely complicating, as it the primary nutrient transport system. So maybe the zombie cells have some other way of passing nutrients (e.g. gap junctions), or maybe there's some form of interstitial fluid pumping. Perhaps they can go into forms of extreme "hibernation" if not being used.

Anyway, I could go much further, but the point remains that it might be - at an extreme - theoretically possible to rewrite enough genetic activity of cells such that they are capable of some functionality even in undeath. They'd need to be modified beyond the point they could reasonably be described as human cells, though.

The other complication is how does this transition occur? Does the virus set everything up ready to go, and when the off-switch flicks on the human, it takes over (how would that work)? Does it need to move really, really fast once death occurs and start the re-write then, and what's stopping it re-writing before death?
 
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BrawlMan

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Anyway, I could go much further, but the point remains that it might be - at an extreme - theoretically possible to rewrite enough genetic activity of cells such that they are capable of some functionality even in undeath. They'd need to be modified beyond the point they could reasonably be described as human cells, though.

The other complication is how does this transition occur? Does the virus set everything up ready to go, and when the off-switch flicks on the human, it takes over (how would that work)? Does it need to move really, really fast once death occurs and start the re-write then, and what's stopping it re-writing before death?
If you think that's maddening, wait till you see Parasite Eve. There are no zombies, but there's a lot of weird mutations. Imagine the cells in your body having thoughts and minds of their own and they hate you. They do not want to be a part of you. So it's either combustion, weird monster mutation, or orange goop.
 

SilentPony

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Presumably, they "sense" living flesh as different from zombie. More below.



Let's assume we try to create a scientifically reasonable explanation for zombies.

The most obvious one is viral. So, imagine a virus is capable of changing cellular activity so that the tissues can retain some form of life and functionality long after an uninfected body would decay to uselessness: perhaps by cannibalising non-essential parts of the body (as human bodies do in starvation - muscle wastage, etc. - but much more extreme).

To answer Samtemdo, that virus also has it's own drive to survive, and so it does not want to consume other virus. So it affects the nerves, receptors (smell, sight, etc.) to not target other sources of viral infection. Maybe the virus causes a host to release a chemical like a pheromone, which puts off other infected hosts from attacking it; perhaps some small semblance of the people's cognition remains, hijacked by the virus, which can also apply to sound, sight, etc. to recognise valid food sources.
There are parasites in nature that infect insects and take total control over them and drive them to climb into high, obvious places to be eaten by birds so they can spread eggs/seeds in the bird poop.
The virus could do something similar in that it can drive people/infected to seeking out non-infected people and attempting to infect them.

Also do ALL people who get eaten by zombies turn into zombies? Like there are times when the zombies pull someone apart, ripping limbs from limbs. Hard to reanimate that. So do zombies sometimes feed on what they see as poor virus vessels, and then just bite and infect humans who would make good hosts?
 

Agema

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There are parasites in nature that infect insects and take total control over them and drive them to climb into high, obvious places to be eaten by birds so they can spread eggs/seeds in the bird poop.
The virus could do something similar in that it can drive people/infected to seeking out non-infected people and attempting to infect them.

Also do ALL people who get eaten by zombies turn into zombies? Like there are times when the zombies pull someone apart, ripping limbs from limbs. Hard to reanimate that. So do zombies sometimes feed on what they see as poor virus vessels, and then just bite and infect humans who would make good hosts?
I think zombies eat anything alive or recently killed. The difference between taking a bite and being thoroughly consumed is nothing but that the former were able to escape before they were killed.
 

SilentPony

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I think zombies eat anything alive or recently killed. The difference between taking a bite and being thoroughly consumed is nothing but that the former were able to escape before they were killed.
Well I guess the question is why if the virus wants to reproduce, it would purposefully avoid other infected people, and then purposefully devour a new host body? If they want to spread more virus, they should want to leave some hosts intact, so they should eat until full, and then just bite and release.
 

Agema

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Well I guess the question is why if the virus wants to reproduce, it would purposefully avoid other infected people, and then purposefully devour a new host body? If they want to spread more virus, they should want to leave some hosts intact, so they should eat until full, and then just bite and release.
Well, the virus benefits from both surviving in the host (for which it needs to eat) and benefits from replication. So it needs a combination of consumption and some victims merely bitten. However, a virus can't make this sort of calculation: it doesn't have planning, will, intent.

This then comes down to the evolutionary perspective of what happens to work. If enough people happen to escape with a bite for every however many are eaten so total numbers go up, it's a win for the virus. Just attacking anything not already undead and trying to eat them works, even if it's just purely incidental that some escape with a bite. It might well not be optimised. In fact, for many viruses new to a host species (like covid-19), they are likely to be very badly optimised.
 

Thaluikhain

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Plague zombies just don't work at all.

Now, animated by some dark power, when the answer it literally a wizard did it, fine. Otherwise, give up, there's no making sense of them.
 
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happyninja42

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My Dad always gives questions like these the same, sarcastic answer "because its in the script!"
Your dad is incredibly smart, since all of it is bullshit, written by people who AREN'T virologists, and biologists, and is simply a medium to tell a compelling story that they have cooking in their brains.

There are parasites in nature that infect insects and take total control over them and drive them to climb into high, obvious places to be eaten by birds so they can spread eggs/seeds in the bird poop.
The virus could do something similar in that it can drive people/infected to seeking out non-infected people and attempting to infect them.

Also do ALL people who get eaten by zombies turn into zombies? Like there are times when the zombies pull someone apart, ripping limbs from limbs. Hard to reanimate that. So do zombies sometimes feed on what they see as poor virus vessels, and then just bite and infect humans who would make good hosts?
Interestingly, both your question, and your observation about the zombie ant parasite, are directly addressed in The Last of Us. They specifically cited the fungal infection that does that very thing to ants, as the basic premise for their fungal zombies in humans. And, at least in that game, yes, some people who are bitten, don't turn. I would presume this would apply to corpses as well, if the virus can't find purchase in their system to animate it, they would just...be dead.

The more broad answer is "depends on what the writer needs to happen in the story" I can't recall a scenario where that question needed to be addressed specifically in a script, but there are times when you see animated zombies, that are just...parts. Severed head still biting, torso without arms/legs crawling around to ramp up the creep factor, that kind of stuff.
 

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Slightly off topic, but my biggest question, shortly after tapping out of "The Walking Dead's" meandering when they switched intrigue to between warring factions of humans versus the much more troubling zombie apocalypse, why didn't they defer to the "coat ourselves with zombie guts and walk amongst/through them with abandon" solution more often? I think I recall seeing hem use it once, under extreme circumstances, but never again. Afterwards, they always loaded up precious ammo and chanced it being quite and sneaky-sneaky, and I'm thinking to myself: "just slather some zombie intestines on yourself, and you'll probably have time to use coupons at that abandoned supermarket back there! Hell, the zombies might help you load up your car!"