PC is "Far Superior" to Next-Gen Consoles, Says Nvidia

Griffolion

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Aug 18, 2009
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Matt Wright said:
Steam now has more users than Xbox Live. There is a whole new generation who grew up playing on PC with titles like Minecraft or World of Tanks. There's a huge community who love playing their games on PC
Is there a source for that? I'm a tad skeptical.

Anyway, yeah, not sure why this is still being discussed. In terms of power, consoles and PC's are a false equivalency to a certain extent, even with a common architecture across the three, now.

Windows is designed to run on potentially billions of hardware combinations, and thus cannot be optimised for any single one of those specifically. Consoles are designed specifically for one hardware combination. That tight vertical integration means they can make the OS as tightly coupled to the hardware as possible, allowing it to squeeze the most out of it as possible. Which is why a console with far inferior specs to a PC can still produce similar results to the PC in a game (graphics wise).

AMD's Mantle technology is the closest thing to a low level GCN on PC (alongside a couple of obscure open source implementations). The sad thing is that it's AMD only, and R290X at that. And it only works on BF4 so far. What PC gaming needs is a super low level API that anyone can tap into (meaning cross compatibility between AMD, nVidia, and Intel). Before someone says "Direct X", that's abstracted as hell for the sake of developers, I'm talking low level, direct hardware access. I think that if Intel did something similar to Mantle, they'd make a huge leap forward. A low level graphics API tapping into Iris and future iterations. It won't have much impact in graphically intensive blockbusters, but stuff like LoL, WoW, etc, will all go for that (since they want their game played on as many machines as possible).

Oh, and just a quick FYI in case anyone hasn't already worked this out. The only reason nVidia have been banging on about the superiority of PC gaming in comparison to the latest consoles because you won't find a nVidia GPU in either the PS4 or the XB1. They did so badly with the PS3 last round that they were dropped like hot potatoes, coupled with the fact that AMD are so desperate for business that I'll bet they're practically selling the Jaguar chipsets for almost cost. Just take anything nVidia says in this regard with a large pinch of butthurt.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that, tech wise, we're doing good for gaming right now. The XB1 and PS4 are both competent with good futures, and PC gaming will stride forth ever in the vanguard.
 

Popbangwoo

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Jan 6, 2012
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This isn't somehow related to the fact that ALL of the New-Gen console use AMD is it? I sense a small amount of butthurt in this one. But as a PC gamer I agree that it's superior if you have the funds.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

(Insert witty quote here)
Sep 10, 2008
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Griffolion said:
Matt Wright said:
Steam now has more users than Xbox Live. There is a whole new generation who grew up playing on PC with titles like Minecraft or World of Tanks. There's a huge community who love playing their games on PC
Is there a source for that? I'm a tad skeptical.
It happened a few months ago.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/129176-Steam-Surpasses-Xbox-Live-With-65-Million-Users

With a daily peak of 6 million users and 500k playing DOTA 2 (which is duelling with LOL as the most played MOBA) you cannot deny that Steam (and by extension PC gaming) is a juggernaut of massive proportions.

As for NVIDIA's dick waving contest with consoles I would have to agree at this point, with both not having true 1080 with 60fps across all launch titles is rather pathetic. If this trend continues with AAA titles a year from now then it will be less dick waving and more 'I told you so.'
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Colt47 said:
How long did you own each Xbox 360? Also how long did you own the PS3? I've owned my white brick of an Xbox 360 since 2007 and it still runs as good as the day I bought it. Unfortunately, I never owned the original PS3 so I really can't comment on that systems lifetime performance. I tend to take very good care of my consoles and still have a working launch PS2 with the hard drive (been playing old games I've bought off E-bay recently).
Launch 360s were notoriously shitty, and even the Playstation had the YLOD come up quite often. I'm betting you'll find as many people as not who went through multiple 360s by this point. I only know one person who's had a PS3 since launch that hasn't had to repair it themselves or have it serviced.

Honestly, though, if a console breaks, you have a lot fewer options. PC breaks? Replace the broken component. If your DVD drive fails on a 360, you're paying quite a bit. Or, you can swap out your DVD player in your PC for like 20 dollars. Power supply for your PS3? Like 3 times what a reasonable PSU would cost on a PC. And even if you're not tech savvy, having a computer guy replace a part won't pad the cost like a Sony/Microsoft service will.

Just opening a console voids the warranty. You haven't even done anything yet. And you probably need proprietary tools, or ones not normally in your kit.

shintakie10 said:
Everyone says this, yet it never feels true. My 360 needed to update constantly. Whenever I popped in new games, update. Whenever MSoft decided to change the dashboard, update. When I downloaded some title from the store, update. The only updates my computer needs is a antivirus update that does itself automatically in the background, a windows update that only requires 2 clicks to get through, and a graphics driver update that again takes 2 clicks to get through.
And updates on DD services and even some disc games that do so in the background. Also, you often can't even download a demo without an update. Oh, and they'll sign you out of live when one's required. Hope you weren't chatting with people or in other ways using the system. And if you reject the update, you stay signed out.


Consoles being a cheaper, stabler and low maintenance alternative to PC's have been a myth since the 360 and PS3 days.
Hell, most of those were out the window for the PS2.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Ed130 said:
It happened a few months ago.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/129176-Steam-Surpasses-Xbox-Live-With-65-Million-Users
Yeah, but clearly they're not real gamers because they don't play the same games I do.

TizzytheTormentor said:
Nvidia claiming that buying PC's is better is as surprising as a Playstation Magazine telling people to buy Playstations.
Even less so, since Playstation magazine probably hasn't been burned by another console recently.
 

Bonecrusher

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Nov 20, 2009
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Arina Love said:
PC unfortunately doesn't have any exclusive games that i want to play. i don't care about graphics i only care about games.
How?
There are more exclusives in PC than the total of PS3 + X360 + Wii + WiiU. There are many exclusive games for diferrent tastes...

a) Either people don't hear those games because popular gaming websites are console oriented and neglect PC games
b) Or even hundreds of exclusive games can't satisfy console gamers
 

Flunk

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Feb 17, 2008
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Of course PCs are technologically superior. All the "Next-Gen" consoles are based on "PC" hardware and have to come in under a very specific price point. A machine that you can customize with all the doodads you want is clearly more free, open and useful with the possibility of much greater performance. Consoles have made some developers lazy, just writing for one set of hardware (look at NFS: Rivals) so I don't think they'll be dying until we all stop buying them.

I'm hoping for a console generation where nearly everything comes out on PC, that will thin the console hoards a bit. I still fear I'll have to buy one to play JRPGs, the Japanese have never been great proponents of PC gaming. I am eagerly awaiting Titanfall, I hope they let console players play vs PC players... hahaha just kidding, you know they'd never do that.
 

Strain42

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Abomination said:
Up next sports team A states that sports team A is the best.

Sports team B responds stating sports team B is the best.

Sports team C makes a declaration that it is better than both sports teams A & B.
I hate Sports team B...so damn much...cocky sons of bitches!!!

Everyone is arguing over what the best consoles are, and I'm just sitting here enjoying the hell out of my 3DS with no problems what so ever...
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
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Well it's extremely obvious that PC is superior to the current gen consoles.

graphics card maker Nvidia wants to make sure players don't forget about the other gaming system - no, not the Wii U, the PC.
Well that was a rather poor choice of words, we're on the Escapist where not having a PC is higher than or the equivalent of being Satan.
 

Arina Love

GOT MOE?
Apr 8, 2010
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Bonecrusher said:
Arina Love said:
PC unfortunately doesn't have any exclusive games that i want to play. i don't care about graphics i only care about games.
How?
There are more exclusives in PC than the total of PS3 + X360 + Wii + WiiU. There are many exclusive games for diferrent tastes...

a) Either people don't hear those games because popular gaming websites are console oriented and neglect PC games
b) Or even hundreds of exclusive games can't satisfy console gamers
It doesn't matter how many exclusives there is if i'm not interested in any of them. i open my steam look for genres i like and there is nothing that remotely of interest to me. I want stuff on the level of Uncharted, Last of US, Beyond, Halo and J-RPGs.
If you have any suggestions feel free. Buyer's remorse for my 1000$ PC is pretty strong....
 

Yuuki

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Mar 19, 2013
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Arina Love said:
It doesn't matter how many exclusives there is if i'm not interested in any of them. i open my steam look for genres i like and there is nothing that remotely of interest to me. I want stuff on the level of Uncharted, Last of US, Beyond, Halo and J-RPGs.
If you have any suggestions feel free. Buyer's remorse for my 1000$ PC is pretty strong....
Perhaps you should've checked whether the games on Steam/GOG/etc suited your "tastes" (interesting that you easily dismissed 3500+ games) BEFORE you blew $1000 on your PC.

It's a bit silly to label PC exclusives as...well, exclusives really. At this point PC has more exclusives than all console generations put together, so "exclusive" no longer has any meaning as far as PC's go. That term largely applies to consoles because exclusives are the ONLY thing consoles use to one-up each other, especially in the latest generation where basically both PS4 and XBone = PC-in-a-box with a list of games they have taken hostage (in Yahtzee's words).
 

Arina Love

GOT MOE?
Apr 8, 2010
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Yuuki said:
Arina Love said:
It doesn't matter how many exclusives there is if i'm not interested in any of them. i open my steam look for genres i like and there is nothing that remotely of interest to me. I want stuff on the level of Uncharted, Last of US, Beyond, Halo and J-RPGs.
If you have any suggestions feel free. Buyer's remorse for my 1000$ PC is pretty strong....
Perhaps you should've checked whether the games on Steam/GOG/etc suited your "tastes" (interesting that you easily dismissed 3500+ games) BEFORE you blew $1000 on your PC.

It's a bit silly to label PC exclusives as...well, exclusives really. At this point PC has more exclusives than all console generations put together, so "exclusive" no longer has any meaning as far as PC's go. That term largely applies to consoles because exclusives are the ONLY thing consoles use to one-up each other, especially in the latest generation where basically both PS4 and XBone = PC-in-a-box with a list of games they have taken hostage (in Yahtzee's words).
why it's silly? They ARE exclusive for a platform they are on, ie PC. So if people want to play them they have to get PC. it doesn't matter how many of them are, exclusive means exclusive. Consoles PC-in-a-box is right BUT not being slowed down by API and being single spec machine matters (John Carmack words) ( https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176 )
 

Vigormortis

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taciturnCandid said:
PS4 price point..... plus playstation plus.

2 years of PS+ is 100$

So to have a ps4 for two years is already 500$

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Motherboard: Asus M5A78L-M LX PLUS Micro ATX AM3+ Motherboard [http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-m5a78lmlxplus] ($39.99 @ Newegg)
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Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive [http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex] ($54.99 @ Newegg)
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Total: $516.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-29 20:27 EST-0500)


Pretty much the same price as a ps4+2 years of ps+ and outdoes the ps4. If you already have an OS or use steam os then it is less.
This is the thing that always fascinates me. The fact that people STILL assert that PC gaming is somehow "more expensive" than console gaming.

If you compare how much you'll spend over the course of a console generation to how much you'll spend gaming on a PC over the same period of time the difference is staggering. Even if you don't pay for online services like Live or PS+ or fail to factor in things like Steam Sales or Amazon rebates.

I can tell you from personal experience that, though I game far more often on my PC, I've likely dished out almost twice as much money on my 360 than I have on my PC in the pursuit of gaming entertainment.

Really, anyone that still makes that claim sounds like an idiot. Sorry to be blunt about it, but there it is. You can argue all day that the base level of knowledge need be higher for PC gaming, in terms of how to build a PC, and I'll agree. It is more difficult than just going out to by a console. But, don't even try to tell me PC gaming is more expensive than console gaming. Just don't. You'll sound foolish.

Aeonknight said:
I would disagree. Consoles have the advantage of being idiot proof over PC. They always have and always will. Though you may be hard pressed to find someone like that on the internet, there are people who don't know which PC parts to get, so they'd rather just stop by GameStop and pick up a console. And that market is much larger as well. Consoles aren't going anywhere, at least not until public schools start teaching PC architecture (which they should.)
I agree entirely, save for two things. Newer consoles aren't quite as "idiot proof" as they once were, and PC gaming has become much, much easier in recent years. (Almost) everything is plug-and-play. Though there is still a gap between the two in terms of "convenience".

However, console gamers pay for that "convenience" with exuberantly higher price tags. On everything.

Nowadays, if you've got the money I would, ironically[footnote]Based on the average perception on the differing pay-walls for console and PC gaming.[/footnote], recommend console gaming. Whereas if you're in a position where frugal-ness is a must, I'd recommend PC gaming.
 

Roxas1359

Burn, Burn it All!
Aug 8, 2009
33,758
1
0
Man Nvidia really is still throwing a hissy fit about all 3 console manufacturers going with AMD instead of them huh?
I mean I really just read these and I just get the image of the CEO of Nvidia throwing a temper tantrum and crying because Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo didn't go with cards that would have driven the costs of these consoles skyrocketing.
I mean of course PC is gonna be superior, but I also don't give 2 shites about having a Nvidia card because my AMD card does just fine and doesn't cost me an arm and a leg along with the soul of my first born child.
 
Mar 5, 2011
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songnar said:
That's as may be, Matt Wright, but if you cannot provide that superior experience at a price competitive with the console option the flailing and failing global economy simply will not be able to bear the price.

In terms of gaming - a standardized product like the consoles or, soon, the Steam Box is much easier to plan for, requires less testing across the dozens of possible hardware combinations and is, thus, somewhat easier to plan for.

I love my PC but I just don't see its continued viability moving forward.
PC gaming is cheaper then ever. A $500 PC will preform better then both an Xbone or PS4.
 

Drauger

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Dec 22, 2011
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Well no shit?, I just don't get it, there are some games I play on pc, and some that are console exclusive, why should anyone limit to a console or a pc, besides everyone has a pc....
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
8,407
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Of course hey are superior. New consoles are not gaming consoles, they are just weak and limited PCs sold for too much. If the new consoles were actual consoles, you know, plug and play, playing off the disc, all that jazz, then we could argue, now they are just like PCs, except less.

songnar said:
That's as may be, Matt Wright, but if you cannot provide that superior experience at a price competitive with the console option the flailing and failing global economy simply will not be able to bear the price.
Except that it can. Thats the whole point.
Also can we stop spreading the economic panic? The crysis is over.


erttheking said:
And cue the people tearing their throats out over which piece of hardware they enjoy playing their games on better in 3, 2, 1.
There really is no more need for tearing as the only option is PC. Or PC from microsoft. Or PC from Sony. Well ok there is WiiU but thats hardly a competitor. its doing its own thing on the side.

ike42 said:
And of course none of this talk from Nvidia has anything to do with both the Xbone and the PS4 being built on ATI architecture...
Both of the came to Nvidia first. Nvidia laughed them out of the building with what they offered. So they went to AMD. AMD signed a contract. Id say Nvidia is in better situation considering how the consoles are going.

rofltehcat said:
Even that third party Steambox they showcased a few days ago had a AMD GPU... I think they are starting to panic. Even if PC gaming does great this console generation, Nvidia will be in for some very hard years.
Very unlikely. Nvidia cards were always better for gaming. AMD cards are better for raw calculation power, which is good whne your doing massive calculation and sensory input proceossing, but as far as gaming graphics Nvidia had the upper hand for years now. Also Nvidia has been working with developers, actively and for free, for a decade, thus most optimiations for PC you see will be very Nvidia centrific. Nvidia is in better position than AMD. And lets not even start about processors where AMD STILL havent shown anything that could rival the i processors.

Colt47 said:
It's almost as if Nvidia forgets that the primary reason consoles exist is to provide a stable, low maintenance means of enjoying video game software. The PC will always be better than consoles as far as performance, but it pays for it in stability and a need for regular maintenance.
That was true only up till this genration.

Kheapathic said:
The Escapist has to cater to their largest audience, otherwise they run risk of losing clicks.
Polls have shown that on escapist PC gamers are a minority.

Nieroshai said:
I have a PC to do what a console can't, which is much. I do, however, have consoles to do what a PC can't, such as load in a timely manner, standardize drivers, upload patches without prompting me, run at good graphics and framerate without having to buy new hardware every two years, and--with the current console gen--snap from ANY game, no matter how intensive the requirements, straight to netflix, and install a new game, while chatting with my friends. My PC CAN do that laundry list of things, but I tell you it WON'T. It will crash if I try half that list, regardless of my actual CAPABILITY to Alt-Tab to other windows and apps.
So you claim that a PC cant do something, then go on to lsit things that PC does better than consoles. Especially worth noting - good graphics on consoles (hah, thats a funny one).
If your PC crashes on these things then the fault is between keyboard and chair and not in the PC itself. I havent seen a program you cant alt-tab form since, well, 2001 i think. My PC does all the things you listed and does not crash. And i can easily type on this forum, watch a video stream, chat in said streams chat channel and play a game, all at the same time. in fact last week i did exactly that. and my PC is 5 years old, so no need for replacing every 2 years.

James Crook said:
Yeah sure, the PC is far superior to Next-gen consoles and ARE affordable if you know your stuff and get around to building one.
But not with your GPUs, Nvidia.
Also, come back to me when you get your partners at Ubisoft to actually abide by your words and do some work optimizing their games.
Nvidia GPUs are affordable. Whne you buy AMD gpu, you are getting your money worth - less money, less worth.
Also Nvidia "parnership" is same as all toher nvidia partnerships. they send in engineers, for free, to developers to hlep with optimizing (for thier cars obviuosly). it is up to Ubisoft to use that advise or not, and ubisoft seems to not be doing that enough.

Griffolion said:
Windows is designed to run on potentially billions of hardware combinations, and thus cannot be optimised for any single one of those specifically. Consoles are designed specifically for one hardware combination. That tight vertical integration means they can make the OS as tightly coupled to the hardware as possible, allowing it to squeeze the most out of it as possible. Which is why a console with far inferior specs to a PC can still produce similar results to the PC in a game (graphics wise).

Oh, and just a quick FYI in case anyone hasn't already worked this out. The only reason nVidia have been banging on about the superiority of PC gaming in comparison to the latest consoles because you won't find a nVidia GPU in either the PS4 or the XB1. They did so badly with the PS3 last round that they were dropped like hot potatoes, coupled with the fact that AMD are so desperate for business that I'll bet they're practically selling the Jaguar chipsets for almost cost. Just take anything nVidia says in this regard with a large pinch of butthurt.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that, tech wise, we're doing good for gaming right now. The XB1 and PS4 are both competent with good futures, and PC gaming will stride forth ever in the vanguard.
Technically correct, practically not anymore. PC hardware has become so standartized you will have ALL Nvidia cards use exactly same driver and the like. they are not identical hardware but close enough to optimize. Console CAN NOT produce similar results. consoles games run on low resolution ultra low settings, something PC users would use only when they are running on bellow minimum specs. graphic wise consoles are cocroaches that seem to not die even when radiation fallout is falling on them.
Also Nvidia was the first target for next gen GPUs, but they said no, so MS and Sony went to AMD. Now that we know the specs of new consoles i cna understand Nvidia, they were always the ones pushing for stronger hardware and AMD always played catchup. The Jaguar is like the Jaguar console. Much roaring, actually crap.

Also no, neither XB1 nor PS4 is competent. They feel like they took a 4 year old PC, installed a 15 year old OS on it and called it a "new product".



Bonecrusher said:
Arina Love said:
PC unfortunately doesn't have any exclusive games that i want to play. i don't care about graphics i only care about games.
How?
There are more exclusives in PC than the total of PS3 + X360 + Wii + WiiU. There are many exclusive games for diferrent tastes...

a) Either people don't hear those games because popular gaming websites are console oriented and neglect PC games
b) Or even hundreds of exclusive games can't satisfy console gamers
Well to be honest i have to give credit to the whole exclusinve things not beign worth it. The only exclusives on console ever that i was interested in were all in Sonys teritory. i never cared about Nintendo or MS exclusives. In fact the reason i didnt buy Wii was because i havent seen a single game that i would want to play.