Pedophile Sues Crew of "To Catch A Predator"

[CM156_v1legacy]

Another famous case happened when the police sent a previously convicted pederast 'kiddie porn subscriptions' for THREE years waiting for the guy to subscribe to their 'magazine' then arresting him when he did. This was technically a 'grey' area (nothing forced him to sign up) but thrown out for other reasons. (can't recall the case name I don't have my books in front of me I believe it was in Iowa)

Was it Jacobson v. United States [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._United_States]?

OT: I remembered the ICP song when I first read it. I found the show funny, if nothing else. Legal? I don't know. High class? Ehhhh, not likely. Freaking hilarious? Yeah.

Ahh, Ha yes. That is the one I was thinking of. It seems i was a little off on some of the fine details.

You. You get a gold star.

It's sad that I was able to remember that case off the top of my head when you mentioned Child porn and Entrapment. Thank you law classes and legal ethics. You have ruined me.

But thanks for the gold star

 

[hotsauceman]

I have watched this show before for a little while.
The police arent even involved are they? Its entirely a citizen run venture right?
But yeah, Just like how when they have prostition stings they cant entice the John he has to make the first move or its illegal
To me to catch a predator always seemed to skirt the boundries of law.

 

[direkiller]

Honestly the stupidity of the above post astonishes the hell out of me.

Realistically, what Chris Hansen is getting away with is violating the constitution, and someones Miranda rights. He conducts interrogations that are filmed and then later broadcast and used in trial settings. He is actively engaged in entrapment. and he gets away with it because there are millions of fools in the U.S that do not know there own rights and find this crap "entertaining". encouraging pedophilia is not entertaining. I would crucify Hansen in his own front yard, but that would make us both criminals.

If we haven't met on the escapist. Hi! I'm Thor 10 year police officer and recently appointed Professor of Criminal Justice.

Entrapment is when the police trick or force you into doing something you have no choice to do. It is NOT when a situation is created where you do something illegal. The people on that show could have, Not shown up to their rendezvous, stopped talking to the 'child' at any point or walked away from the situation at many different points.

It would be entrapment if while pretending to be the child the police (or chris whoever) said "If you don't come visit me tonight I'll kill myself" Then the guy could say "I wouldn't have showed up. I had no choice the kid was going to kill herself"
That is entrapment.

Another famous case happened when the police sent a previously convicted pederast 'kiddie porn subscriptions' for THREE years waiting for the guy to subscribe to their 'magazine' then arresting him when he did. This was technically a 'grey' area (nothing forced him to sign up) but thrown out for other reasons. (can't recall the case name I don't have my books in front of me I believe it was in Iowa)

Despite what TV and maybe wikipedia has taught people. Your miranda rights are not first read to you when you're arrested or even at the beginning of an interview.

Miranda rights are read to you once you've officially become a suspect. As hansen interviews the people it could be argued that they are 'witnesses' or a 'person of interest' if you're either of those things Miranda doesn't enter the picture. I do agree with you though that this is at BEST a grey area and at worst a misconstruing of the rules. (Chris also identifies himself as a journalist, not a law enforcement officer which further muddies the waters)

If i recall most of the TCAP cases don't go to trial because of this gray area. along with the way some of the evidence is collected.
(heard this a few years ago dont know if its true or not and this is all i was able to find)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19486893/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/da-refuses-prosecute-catch-predator-cases/#.TrCMrPThFlM

 

[hotsauceman]

If we haven't met on the escapist. Hi! I'm Thor 10 year police officer and recently appointed Professor of Criminal Justice.
It would be entrapment if while pretending to be the child the police (or chris whoever) said "If you don't come visit me tonight I'll kill myself" Then the guy could say "I wouldn't have showed up. I had no choice the kid was going to kill herself"
That is entrapment.

Im taking a criminal justice class(taught by an officer aswell,a patrol sgt.) and He makes it sound like entrapment is when the police try to force you into a crime, Like the delorean Case.
Im just wondering that is all

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Hi I'm chris hansen, why don't you have a seat over there...

*pedophile sits down*


your plea is beyond fuck, you were in the attempt of molesting a child/posing as a child to do so. fuck your lawsuit.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

If we haven't met on the escapist. Hi! I'm Thor 10 year police officer and recently appointed Professor of Criminal Justice.
It would be entrapment if while pretending to be the child the police (or chris whoever) said "If you don't come visit me tonight I'll kill myself" Then the guy could say "I wouldn't have showed up. I had no choice the kid was going to kill herself"
That is entrapment.

Im taking a criminal justice class(taught by an officer aswell,a patrol sgt.) and He makes it sound like entrapment is when the police try to force you into a crime, Like the delorean Case.
Im just wondering that is all

If the police entice you into crime, its entrapment. If you initiate and they just go along, it isn't.

It gets messier with those who are not officers of the court but are working with the police, and it will differ by where you live. In this particular case, in Canada I suspect that because the police were participating actively in his TV show, and not just going and busting someone on evidence, it could be strongly argued that the show acted as a agent of law enforcement and thus they would be bound by the same rules as cops - but as I said, that will differ by case and location.

Hi I'm chris hansen, why don't you have a seat over there...

*pedophile sits down*


your plea is beyond fuck, you were in the attempt of molesting a child/posing as a child to do so. fuck your lawsuit.

That's not how the law works. Even guilty people have rights.

As far as MSNBC goes I believe this is protected under freedom of the press. You don't want to be publicly humiliated? Don't try to have sex with children!

If the police weren't there you might have an argument, but while working with the police? Sorry, rules change.

i'm pretty sure everyone around knows that...

i'm just saying it in the sense that, he was about to molest. a child. (and don't give me the crap" he didn't do it, you don't know if he would've done it." bullshit, he'd posed as a child and had been planning it to the finest detail to get that child) that those who are clearly guilty like that should be scoffed at for even making the attempt to sue.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

If we haven't met on the escapist. Hi! I'm Thor 10 year police officer and recently appointed Professor of Criminal Justice.
It would be entrapment if while pretending to be the child the police (or chris whoever) said "If you don't come visit me tonight I'll kill myself" Then the guy could say "I wouldn't have showed up. I had no choice the kid was going to kill herself"
That is entrapment.

Im taking a criminal justice class(taught by an officer aswell,a patrol sgt.) and He makes it sound like entrapment is when the police try to force you into a crime, Like the delorean Case.
Im just wondering that is all

If the police entice you into crime, its entrapment. If you initiate and they just go along, it isn't.

It gets messier with those who are not officers of the court but are working with the police, and it will differ by where you live. In this particular case, in Canada I suspect that because the police were participating actively in his TV show, and not just going and busting someone on evidence, it could be strongly argued that the show acted as a agent of law enforcement and thus they would be bound by the same rules as cops - but as I said, that will differ by case and location.

Hi I'm chris hansen, why don't you have a seat over there...

*pedophile sits down*


your plea is beyond fuck, you were in the attempt of molesting a child/posing as a child to do so. fuck your lawsuit.

That's not how the law works. Even guilty people have rights.

As far as MSNBC goes I believe this is protected under freedom of the press. You don't want to be publicly humiliated? Don't try to have sex with children!

If the police weren't there you might have an argument, but while working with the police? Sorry, rules change.

i'm pretty sure everyone around knows that...

i'm just saying it in the sense that, he was about to molest. a child. (and don't give me the crap" he didn't do it, you don't know if he would've done it." bullshit, he'd posed as a child and had been planning it to the finest detail to get that child) that those who are clearly guilty like that should be scoffed at for even making the attempt to sue.

I never suggested that he wasn't guilty. I never suggested that he shouldn't be punished. However, as I said, even the guilty have rights in the US where this happened (and most other civilized nations). At least one judge seems to think he might have a case.

yeah i understand (wasn't accusing you of saying you suggested those, if that's the vibe you got from my post) i'm just stating that any judge in their right damn mind should scoff at that (but then again people become millionaires from suing mcdonalds for getting burned because they didn't warn them their coffee was hot..*sigh*)

i hate our law/society sometimes...at one point in time i almost agreed with "law abiding citizen"

 

[chadachada123]

Stop calling people on that show pedophiles.

Much of the time, the cops are pretending to be 12-14 year old girls/boys, which is NOT pedophilia. Pedophilia is for pre-pubescent kids, not 12+ kids.

Call them child molesters if you wish (and we can argue the semantics and morality of statutory laws in another thread), but there is a monster difference between a pedophile and a child molester, and neither are mutually inclusive. Child molesters aren't necessarily pedophiles, and vice versa.

Child molestation is a choice, like any other crime that has a victim (again, this is not the thread for discussing who and who isn't a victim). Pedophilic feelings are not choices, much like you can't choose to be straight or gay or attracted to red-heads or not.

Don't confuse the two, because there are thousands (millions?) of people with sexual urges towards young children that are already stigmitized enough for feelings they have no control over. There are many that don't act on these (I dare to say "natural") urges, just as there are many men/women that don't act on, say, the urge to punch someone in the face, yet are shunned from society for being law-abiding. My point being that calling pedophiles child molesters can make the law-abiding weirdos more likely to just ignore the law since society already hates them.

 

[Cazza]

Good I'm sick of this television vigilantism. Two wrongs don't make a right. This kind of vigilantism opens the system to all kinds of loop holes. Which in the long run will just make it harder.

 

[Saltyk]

Not that I'm against them catching paedophiles but I have always, regardless of what this idiot is sueing for, thought that the level of entrapment on the show is ridiculous.

I mean the girl/boy is of legal age, they help put words into the predators mouth to an extent, they make them bring potential evidence i.e tell them to bring condoms, beer etc and then lure them out and catch them on television. I mean technically they've come over to have sexual relations with someone of a legal age but I understand that if they weren't legal they would potentially still do so.

I guess the entrapment is justified in catching these people although there have been cases of those with no record of felonies with minors who then have their entire lives ruined for making an extremely stupid mistake.

Not to be rude, but you are wrong in your description of TCAP as entrapment.

Let's use a hypothetical situation. Bob wants to kill his wife because she nags him all day. So Bob finds a man who seems to be a contract killer, we'll call him Steve, that is willing to kill his wife for $2,000. What a steal! Bob gets in touch with Steve and works out the details of the killing. Obviously Bob doesn't want anyone to know he took out a hit on his wife, nor does he want to get shot so they work it out that his wife will be murdered in a "Home Invasion gone bad" while Bob is at work on Thursday (bonus as he gets a three day weekend). With all the details worked out, Steve asks for his payment in cash, but reminds Bob that he can still back out up until he gives Steve the money. Bob gives Steve the money and walks out of their meeting spot. Suddenly, the police show up and arrest him. Turns out Steve was an undercover cop.

This is NOT entrapment! By any stretch of the imagination. Bob had to seek out Steve, and while Steve may have had an advertisement for his services (these actually exist by the way, though they never flat out state contract killings), but no one forced Bob to contact him. Bob will go to prison for a long time for conspiracy to commit murder in the first degree.

Now, Chris Hansen and NBC are not doing this themselves. They are merely documenting and working with the police department. The boy/girl of legal age is actually working for the police. And it works out almost exactly like my above example. They will claim to be an underage boy/girl (though they are really a 20+ year old police officer) and talk to the suspect. Keep in mind, no one is forcing the suspect to talk to them and they make certain to allow them to bring up all the nefarious statements. When it becomes an issue of actually meeting up, they provide the location and time for the bust. But, guess what. No one is forcing the suspect to actually show up to the house. And the actor at the house has never actually talked to the suspect (though they are of legal age). And they have transcripts of their conversation to prove intent (no one wants to let them actually harm a child). There is no entrapment here. And everything that happened on the show was happening without NBC being there anyway.

Is the show in bad taste? Probably. Is the show legal? Questionable. Does this guy have a case? I'm not one to judge, but I can see it going either way. Taking the show itself out of this, is anything here illegal or entrapment? No.

Damn I'm out of the loop... I thought the show was no longer airing (for over a year now) because of the questionable entrapment/sensationalizing way the show was.

EDIT:

-'No new episodes have aired since December 2007.'-

Isn't that because a man committed suicide after showing up and being confronted by Chris Hansen? I'm pretty sure I heard about that happening a few years back.

 

[CleverCover]

Even if the judge lets it go to court and has a jury decide not guilty or guilty against Chris Hanson, the jury going to instantly be in favor of Hanson.

I only see his case as valid if it's another judge, someone who has to base things on the law and not morals and even then that is really iffy, especially if the judge has kids. You know parents go up in arms about anything involving what they perceive as their children.

The guy is not going to get anything out of this besides more humiliation and 15 min of fame.

 

[magnuslion]

If we haven't met on the escapist. Hi! I'm Thor 10 year police officer and recently appointed Professor of Criminal Justice.
It would be entrapment if while pretending to be the child the police (or chris whoever) said "If you don't come visit me tonight I'll kill myself" Then the guy could say "I wouldn't have showed up. I had no choice the kid was going to kill herself"
That is entrapment.

Im taking a criminal justice class(taught by an officer aswell,a patrol sgt.) and He makes it sound like entrapment is when the police try to force you into a crime, Like the delorean Case.
Im just wondering that is all

If the police entice you into crime, its entrapment. If you initiate and they just go along, it isn't.

It gets messier with those who are not officers of the court but are working with the police, and it will differ by where you live. In this particular case, in Canada I suspect that because the police were participating actively in his TV show, and not just going and busting someone on evidence, it could be strongly argued that the show acted as a agent of law enforcement and thus they would be bound by the same rules as cops - but as I said, that will differ by case and location.

Hi I'm chris hansen, why don't you have a seat over there...

*pedophile sits down*


your plea is beyond fuck, you were in the attempt of molesting a child/posing as a child to do so. fuck your lawsuit.

That's not how the law works. Even guilty people have rights.

As far as MSNBC goes I believe this is protected under freedom of the press. You don't want to be publicly humiliated? Don't try to have sex with children!

If the police weren't there you might have an argument, but while working with the police? Sorry, rules change.

i'm pretty sure everyone around knows that...

i'm just saying it in the sense that, he was about to molest. a child. (and don't give me the crap" he didn't do it, you don't know if he would've done it." bullshit, he'd posed as a child and had been planning it to the finest detail to get that child) that those who are clearly guilty like that should be scoffed at for even making the attempt to sue.

thinking about committing a crime, is not a crime. the bottom line was he did not actually molest anyone. when this nation becomes utterly controlled by a Gestapo police force, it is going to be thanks to people like you who are willing to give away more and more of your freedoms and rights in an exchange for the illusion of safety.

 

[WeAreStevo]

You know, I don't mind the show at all. I admit, it's valid that showing them getting arrested, cuffed, and put in the car/van/whatever the hell they're taken away in is a bit much, but the way it is presented IS as a news broadcast. A special assignment etc. whatever.

Point is on the nightly news, we constantly see images of Cops arresting people and carting them off. How should this be any different?

The part of the story that completely baffles me is how the guy was caught red handed attempting to solicit and partake in sex with a minor (Felony). He then goes to court and it's dropped to a Misdemeanor (how I don't know...) and THEN he says "Ok, I won't appeal" and the Judge says "Ok. I appreciate that. Now it's an infraction."

I'm sorry, what?!

Hell, people with first offence DUIs don't even get that treatment, and this pedophile gets off with an infraction!?

AND he has the gall to claim "undue emotional distress"?

How about we examine the "undue emotional distress" of the child he went there to fuck?

/rage

 

[WeAreStevo]

I guess the entrapment is justified in catching these people although there have been cases of those with no record of felonies with minors who then have their entire lives ruined for making an extremely stupid mistake.

A "stupid mistake" is when I take the wrong book to class.

Purposefully seeking out an underage girl/boy on the internet, soliciting sex, driving to the house (showing intent) and then, and only then, finding out that "Oh noes! It's "To Catch a Predator!" is not a "stupid mistake."

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Damn I'm out of the loop... I thought the show was no longer airing (for over a year now) because of the questionable entrapment/sensationalizing way the show was.

EDIT:

-'No new episodes have aired since December 2007.'-

Ah yes! The speedy response of the courts...