People are being WAY too critical of The Elder Scrolls Online!

[Sixcess]

It pisses me off that people get on MMOs for being broken at launch.... Am I the only one that was alive in 2004? Because you know what guys? WOW was as broken as it gets at launch!

That was a different era with different expectations. The MMO tourists who will swarm into TESO en masse on launch day aren't going to be comparing it to the WoW of 2004, they'll be comparing it to the WoW (and the GW2) of today. In 2004 MMO players had a much more limited choice of games, and committed to those games for the long term. That doesn't happen nearly as much today.

A new MMO, especially one entering the unbelievably bloated fantasy genre, has to be good at lauch, or it'll get a bad rep that it will likely never recover from.

 

[Me55enger]

Considering the Legacy of the franchise and the Legacy of the genre they chose to enter, I think we are more than entitled to be critical of what they are making.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

Right, I would like to just say that I am a massive supporter of ANY kind of Elder Scrolls MMO. I'd even pay double the price of a game just for co-op. Because playing in a world like with my friends and mods could create a game like no other.

I won't go into full detail now, as if you were to look back on my post history, I am fairly certain I signed up for the express purpose of explaining why a co-op mode or an MMO of the Elder Scrolls (preferably the co-op, however) would be the most amazing thing in the entire fucking world.

Let me just list a few things:

1. If MMO:
Group of people take fort, become bandits, rob random players walking by. People get pissed and band together, charging and attacking the fort. The bandits might then have a siege on their hands, and may just barricade the entrance so they can try and hold out. Armies might form and fight for control of the land. Thieve's would be rampant. Assasins would exist. You literally do not have to add ANYTHING to an Elder Scrolls game for this to happen. Just add more players and boom, a world will be reborn.

I swear, within the first month of an MMO like that, there would already be a few massive armies with towns under their control, and players guarding them. There would be courier services, merchant caravans, travelling alchemists, Robin the Fucking Hood and mercs. There would be siege's and battles, and dare I say it...

Horse Armour!...(EDI: That was a joke.)

2. If co-op:
Think about it. Vanilla alone would be amazing, exploring, fighting and have an awesome time with friends... but throw mods into the mix. I am currently playing a zombie series which I post up on YouTube. Bascially, with the zombie mod and a few survival mods, I have turned the game into survival horror. It's a shitton of fun.

Now add friends. I do not think I would play another game for at least 2 years.

The last game that did this was ARMA 2. I remember I pretty much played that game straight for a year. Due to clans, the mods, MSO, and most importantly, the map editor.

Give a shitton of players an amazing worlds and lots of things to do in it, and you can bet that something will rise from it. Now, I haven't ever played Ultima Online, but from what I heard, it sounds most like what I am imaging. A world that is run by players. Thieve's and bandits, explorers and townsfolk.


Now here is why I hate Elder Scrolls Online. It is NOT the Elder Scrolls. Yes, it may be the same universe, people and more. But no. No. No. FUCKING NO! When people say they want a co-op or MMO Skyrim, or Morrowind, or Oblivion, they do NOT fucking mean "Press 1, 2, 3".

I remember saying in the first thread about the Elder Scrolls Online, when people still thought it would be a first-person game almost like Skyrim a sequel (aka same combat and mechanics), I said "If this is like Skyrim, TAKE ALL OF MY MONEY. If this a "Press 1 to Fireball" PLEASE DIE IN A FIRE!"

That is why I am ragin'.

 

[Azwrath]

~Mudcrab taking way too long to kill? Beta

Yes that could be changed later on, but it still does raise some questions.

~Animations aren't good enough? Beta

Actually, its alredy beta. Most changes that occur in beta are bug fixes, balance issues and optimization. Animations and ovarall graphics rarely change.

~Graphics are bad? Beta

Same as the point above.

~Where is all the cool stuff they promised? grr we got lied too! Uhh...no it's beta its just the first 20 minutes of the beta of a MMO...what MMO has a super cool/exciting first 20 minutes?

All of them? Most MMOs tend to show you their most exciting stuff in the first 20 to 40 minutes because that is the averege attention span of gamers and so they try to sell you the game in that time.

~Looks like a WoW clone? uhh...how so? I mean I can tell they come from the same genre but it seems to look like it's more related to Guild Wars 2 with a bit of DDO thrown in for good measure (not that stealing/borrowing/whatever is any better when taken from those games)

Here i agree. It does look more like Guild Wars 2 but how is that any better? A WoW clone or a Guild Wars 2 clone still make it a clone meaning it has the same old hotkey mmo combat that people have been fed of for the last years. Also alot of the things that made the Elder Scrolls settings unique seems to have been taken out in favor of a more mainstream and more familiar setting.

Overall i did not have high expectations for this game and yet i was still dissapointed by what i saw in the video. Who knows maybe the game might be ok once it comes out by i really don't see it being anything more then mediocre.

 

[Voulan]

We do need to remember that this was leaked footage, and in no way was it intended to be released to the public to view, which says that there are definitely things still being fixed and done up. There wasn't any first person animation, for example. Only seeing 20 minutes of one of the openings does not make anyone an expert on it, and nor should we use it as the only basis for judging how well it will turn out.

I think it's completely uncool to want a game to fail, however. People just can't be cautiously optimistic or even indifferent anymore because its the in thing to hate everything these days. If you are looking forward to it, then by all means. I know I am - I've never played an MMO, and TES is one of my favourite series, so it's only natural that I'll have a go at it. You can be critical by all means, but deeming it an inevitable failure is unfair and really boring to read.

 

[Playful Pony]

I have no problem understanding why people are not exactly cheering this game along. Big names like Star Wars: TOR and Warhammer Online are only two of the countless MMOs that currently lie face-down in the dirt at the foot of WoWs golden throne. I always think its sad when I see a game going to its doom even before it is finished, even painful when it is from a franchise and universe I adore. Some games just don't benefit from the MMO formula, it is time developers and investors understood this.

The way the combat turned out to work was not the way I expected it would. My roomie has been hyping this game into the skies, but I have always been pesimistic. I had a small hope that maybe the fighting would be something I could get into and enjoy, but it looks and feels like any other MMORPG. I guess that is simply something one has to sacrifice to be an MMO, but then I'd rather see it not be one at all to be honest...

 

[Daveman]

I'll still buy it. I'm only in it for lore anyways.

 

[frobalt]

Well if you want to live in a dream world where everything is perfect then by all means tuck yourself in and avoid the outside world, but when outside your happy bubble do expect the harsh reality to cross your path at some point.

Interesting you come out with this sarcasm, as the same could be said to people that complain about pretty much anything they can complain about.

Yes, things aren't perfect and I'm not saying that you shouldn't point out imperfections, but people seem to like judging things based off a small snapshot.

Imagine being able to watch a movie before it's gone through post-production (so all you're seeing is the raw footage). Would you then complain about how unfinished it looks or would you realise that it's in an unfinished state? Now imagine you've only seen the first 2 minutes of raw footage. Would you say it's rational to judge the whole thing as a pile of crap?

No. You wouldn't. Or shouldn't. So why is this acceptable for an MMO?

Because it's being used to promote the game.
You wouldn't take footage from a movie that hasn't gone through post production and use it in the trailer, but if you did, people would be right to criticise.

It's not used to promote the game. It was taken off youtube due to copyright claims. As far as I'm aware, beta participants agreed to an NDA, which means that details shouldn't be released to the public.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I mostly worry that it'll be a giant money black hole for Bethesda like The Old Republic was for EA... Subscription Based MMO's are as good as dead and WoW is running on momentum alone these days. The market has changed and Bethesda, like EA before them, hasn't been paying attention.

Oh well... regardless I don't like MMO's and unless ESO somehow magically plays like a single player Elder Scrolls game I can't see a single reason to pick it up.

 

[Grape_Bullion]

[






Yeah, this is not compelling analysis. It's obvious you dislike the genre, you can leave it at that. It's like listening to a guy who hates wine trying to explain how all wines are fundamentally the same, or a guy who hates music claiming it's all just noise.

And someone blindly defending any and all MMO's without exceptional re-definition of mechanics or audience is like someone telling you a bottle of 2009 Yellowtail Zinfandel and a 1987 Cabernet Sauvignon out of Saint-Emilion are the same and both exceptionally tasty. Clearly your overreaction to GW2, in a thread about ESO no less, is indicative that your opinion is clouded by your love for the games you play. GW2 is doing just fine without your scathing words to accompany it... oh wait, it's circling the drain. At least it wasn't the TORtanic.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I guess it is okay for a game to be mediocre if it is an MMO. MMO's are designed to be mediocre from the get go.

 

[Dandark]

It's part of a very popular single player RPG series but this one is an MMO, people are going to be very critical of it, especially after the last big popular single player MMO that got turned into an MMO, you know SWTOR?

While true this game has the huge incredible massive almost making it a must buy benefit of not being made by EA it's still going to get a lot of really harsh criticism. Personally I like the look of it so far but many people are unhappy with it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And someone blindly defending any and all MMO's without exceptional re-definition of mechanics or audience is like someone telling you a bottle of 2009 Yellowtail Zinfandel and a 1987 Cabernet Sauvignon out of Saint-Emilion are the same and both exceptionally tasty. Clearly your overreaction to GW2, in a thread about ESO no less, is indicative that your opinion is clouded by your love for the games you play. GW2 is doing just fine without your scathing words to accompany it... oh wait, it's circling the drain. At least it wasn't the TORtanic.

Ya know, I'm not even going to get into my opinion on the state of either GW2 *or* TOR. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they are good games, a smart direction for the genre, or doing well financially. You can keep tilting at all the windmills you want. I will reiterate...by your own admission, you have played less than an hour of the games you are discussing at length, in an argumentative and authoritative fashion. Your lack of experience with the subject matter is incredibly obvious from the tone and content of your analysis, much as it would be obvious if I presented myself as an authority on Japanese RPGs because of the hour of Final Fantasy I played back in the 90's. I offered you an opportunity to admit as much and chalked it up to frustration with and dislike of the genre as a whole. If you want to double down and continue lecturing on mechanics and making broad game comparisons from the pulpit of your hour of experience you can do so. I wouldn't recommend it, but I'm not your Dad.

GW2 has its flaws, but a WoW clone it most definitely is NOT. In fact it received many complaints from WoWers who tried to switch over, simply because of how different it was from the game they knew.

As aggravating as that was, some of them had a point. I don't dislike the game and I don't think "aping WoW" is the answer to all the genre's problems (quite the opposite, really), but they really did put the baby out alongside the bathwater in their attempt to differentiate.

 

[Grape_Bullion]

Ya know, I'm not even going to get into my opinion on the state of either GW2 *or* TOR. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they are good games, a smart direction for the genre, or doing well financially. You can keep tilting at all the windmills you want. I will reiterate...by your own admission, you have played less than an hour of the games you are discussing at length, in an argumentative and authoritative fashion. Your lack of experience with the subject matter is incredibly obvious from the tone and content of your analysis, much as it would be obvious if I presented myself as an authority on Japanese RPGs because of the hour of Final Fantasy I played back in the 90's. I offered you an opportunity to admit as much and chalked it up to frustration with and dislike of the genre as a whole. If you want to double down and continue lecturing on mechanics and making broad game comparisons from the pulpit of your hour of experience you can do so. I wouldn't recommend it, but I'm not your Dad.

I've never experienced frustration or dislike for an MMO, I haven't played one long enough to have either of those feelings. You make it out like I hate them and I think they're for simpletons or something. I'm not the "High Lord of Deciding MMO Quality", I never claimed to be. I'm sure they're beyond in-depth and fun for people who enjoy them. That doesn't change the fact that at face value, one looking from the outside in could conclude they are the same game. Everyone keeps quoting me as saying I've played for an hour and because of that I have no merit in an analysis of the game. And "discussion at length"? I said you could walk around, dodge stuff, and attack things and then said it's the same as other MMO's. That isn't discussion at length. I'm not too sure what I said upset you so much, its just one man's opinion and I defended it with what I could.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I've never experienced frustration or dislike for an MMO, I haven't played one long enough to have either of those feelings. You make it out like I hate them and I think they're for simpletons or something. I'm not the "High Lord of Deciding MMO Quality", I never claimed to be. I'm sure they're beyond in-depth and fun for people who enjoy them. That doesn't change the fact that at face value, one looking from the outside in could conclude they are the same game.

People can conclude a great many things based on an almost total absence of information. That doesn't make those conclusions accurate, or meaningful.

Everyone keeps quoting me as saying I've played for an hour and because of that I have no merit in an analysis of the game.

And those people are correct. That's not an insult or a personal attack, it's an observation. If I wandered into a hospital and started making diagnoses based on an hour of reading through a medical journal I would expect my claims to be met with skepticism at best.

I'm not too sure what I said upset you so much, its just one man's opinion and I defended it with what I could.

Well, A) I'm not "upset so much", but this strikes me as a little disingenuous. Scroll up to the top of the page. I responded to your initial post in this thread to state that your conclusion that GW2 was a WoW clone was inaccurate. You leapt to a conclusion based on a microscopic sample of two very different games, and that conclusion was incorrect. Upon being told this, you responded by telling me I was "blindly defending any and all MMOs", told me my reply to you was an "overreaction", and claimed my opinions were "clouded by love". Without even having any idea what my opinions even were (beyond that yours was incorrect), or what I thought of the games in question.

"One man's opinion" isn't really worth a hill of beans if that opinion isn't supported by facts or experience. You're free to hold it, but if you express it in a public venue you can expect people to point out that you are incorrect. If your response to that is to get riled up, claim that person is blind, clouded, upset, scathing, etc, then maybe this "public forum" thing is not really your cup of tea.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

All I've seen in this threads are people drawing at the straws hoping one of their favorite franchises to be well.

The game is so mediocre coming from the beta that at this point it would need a delay and complete overhaul and try again if you don't want to be called a WoW clone.

I've been on these forums for a few years now and throughout these years the ammount of WoW hate on this particular title is enormous. WoW was -the- MMO that took from every other from before (mainly Everquest) and they molded into game that can cater for everybody. It has had 8 years to polish itself and this is was and is the biggest MMO that ever will be because of it and they changed the game industry (everything after WoW is being called a WoW clone for a reason). Guess people hate it because it has been top of the hill for so many years and wish it to die.

I'm still playing the game since the beginning and every expansion (except maybe Cataclysm) have been fantastic both content wise and regarding lore.

Coming back to OP from my slight tangent, ESO is going to be a run of the mill MMO from what we have seen thus far. Wasting time and implementing first person mode in a MMO is a waste of resources, just to appeal to the fans that have played the single player franchise that play in that perspective. You have absolutely no awareness in your peripheral and behind in that mode, the biggest down side is being aware in your PvE, PvP enviorements by the threats around you so you can dodge incoming attacks, spells what have you.

At this point, I'm very skeptical of this title and I urge people that keep defending this to pace themselves for the inevitable.

 

[Joshimodo]

Guild Wars 2 IS a WoW clone.

I don't think you understand what the word clone means.


ES:O will sadly be quite a waste of money. Had it come out as a competitor of WoW, it may have been able to win out. However, the visuals look dated, the combat looks dated, the gameplay in general looks okay, but also dated.

It's just not offering anything fresh. I love me some Elder Scrolls, and I have no doubt ES:O will be decent, but it's the same old song and dance with a new pair of shoes. It won't beat WoW because it's WoW without the years of updates, expansions and thousands of invested players.

There may be some interesting bits we don't know about (i.e.: the PvP system), but at the end of the day it's going to be another generic MMO with some added flavour (see SW:TOR).