people drive person to suicide for not drawing characters right.

sumanoskae

New member
Dec 7, 2007
1,526
0
0
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Stuff like this is why I'm of the opinion that driving someone to suicide should be considered first degree murder. It's not right that people get away with harassing someone until they commit suicide, this sort of thing needs a really harsh punishment, to make those who do the harassing think twice. If they're too stupid to think twice, put them in prison for life as an example to others that this kind of hateful bs is not okay.
Unfortunately, I don't think this would work. The barrier of the internet creates too much plausible deniability. Remember, to convict someone of murder, you have to prove their guilt beyond reasonable doubt. It would be really easy to falsify circumstances if you were the only person present IRL when you posted the message. Example: whose to say you weren't drunk?

There's also a problematic grey zone when it comes to mass harassment: Who are you going to convict? Everyone who posted a sufficiently vicious comment? Can you draft a logical, objective standard for what counts as "Vicious" that would be internally consistent and broad enough in focus to be admissible in court?

Intent presents the biggest obstacle; if we acknowledge that internet comments can either be utterly meaningless in certain circumstances and constitute attempted murder in others, how do you prove that the defendant had murderous intent? Especially considering that you would often have no way of knowing whether or not the defendant had intimate knowledge of a stranger's psychological or medical conditions at the time of posting.

Something else to think about: A law like this could create a dangerous slippery slope. If you can be lawfully convicted of murder based on internet comments, how easy would it be to admit them as evidence in a case where someone is being FALSELY convicted of murder?
 

sumanoskae

New member
Dec 7, 2007
1,526
0
0
This is unfortunate, but I think framing the trolling as "The reason for the suicide" is rather disingenuous. There is no doubt that these individuals engaged in reprehensible behavior, but healthy, sane people don't commit suicide over being insulted by strangers.

On the other hand, several of these people reportedly knew about the artist's condition. In that light, their actions are even more irresponsible.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
You forgot the best part OP, upon hearing about this incident the Crewniverse spoke out against it (Including Gravity Falls creator.) and those same people that enabled this to happen got real pissy with them and claimed that they would rather 'alienate fans' than go after fat shaming, lesbophobes.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
1981 said:
There's no proof of anyone dying and no evidence of bullying, apart from one bad screenshot and a blog that looks made-up. Criticizing someone's work doesn't constitute for bullying anyway.
The events actually did transpire. The thing is is that she has been harassed by these group of people long before Steven Universe. But this was the straw that broke the camels back with her.

On that note, there is one good news in that she didn't succeed in killing herself. But she is currently to my knowledge in the hospital. The creators of Steven Universe and Gravity Falls have commented on it, and I think as of now the spam/harassment blogs still exist. But I'm not sure if the evidence of their harassment still exists.

Either way, considering how long she's been shat on by these people I don't consider her weak willed. But there absolutely should be reprecussions for stalking, harassment, and making alt accounts just to dogpile on someone to call them pieces of shit for petty mistakes and random headcanons.
 

Rikun

New member
Nov 19, 2009
46
0
0
Dragonbums said:
You forgot the best part OP, upon hearing about this incident the Crewniverse spoke out against it (Including Gravity Falls creator.) and those same people that enabled this to happen got real pissy with them and claimed that they would rather 'alienate fans' than go after fat shaming, lesbophobes.
Pretty much what I've been observing as of now. It makes me glad that Rebecca Sugar hasn't stepped into this mess, though I have this sick feeling that if she said anything the crazier parts of the fandom will be ready to pounce on her and rip her to shreds. Considering how some of the posts are reading, some of the fandom seem practically ready to turn on the creator of their beloved series in order to fight the good fight.

How the hell did the fandom turn to this?
 

Zacharious-khan

New member
Mar 29, 2011
559
0
0
UniversalAC said:
You should take it as a third attempt to get you to back up your claim that I lied, and presumably the introduction for another round of you lashing out while not providing that backing.
While we're believing each other implicitly how about everything you've ever said ever? Do you see the problem here? Can you see why people who say things need to back them up when challenged?
 

Yuuki

New member
Mar 19, 2013
995
0
0
Such people are already mentally unstable (or depressed/desperate) and contemplating suicide anyway. Blaming anonymous folk on the internet is utterly pointless because they are never the root cause.

Unless of course people are looking for someone/anyone to blame it all on, in which case "those mean people on the internet did this!" is a perfectly convenient scapegoat.
 

TakerFoxx

New member
Jan 27, 2011
1,125
0
0
Rikun said:
How the hell did the fandom turn to this?
I'm not really into Steven Universe, but looking through some of the call-out blogs in question, the people doing this seem to be pretty young themselves, so I'd say they've got a bad case of Lisa Simpson syndrome. That is to say, they're just old enough to be socially conscious and have realized that there's a lot of wrong in the world and want to do something about it, but still too young to know the right way to go about it. So they cling to the tumblr list of "bad things" and pounce on anything that resembles something on that list to an obsessive degree. And since Steven Universe is known for having a diverse cast and progressive themes, it's a show that they would naturally gravitate toward.

Which isn't a knock against the show itself, and I applaud them for being both positive and progressive. Nor is it a knock at the majority of the fandom either, as most of them support said themes but also are mature enough to know how to go about it. But many people go through that well-meaning but misguided gung-ho, "let's do some good!" phase, and the internet and social media steer them in the wrong way pretty often. Hell, even one of the show's creators noted this, saying that she is really glad she found tumblr as an adult rather than when she was going through that phase herself.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
Rikun said:
Dragonbums said:
You forgot the best part OP, upon hearing about this incident the Crewniverse spoke out against it (Including Gravity Falls creator.) and those same people that enabled this to happen got real pissy with them and claimed that they would rather 'alienate fans' than go after fat shaming, lesbophobes.
Pretty much what I've been observing as of now. It makes me glad that Rebecca Sugar hasn't stepped into this mess, though I have this sick feeling that if she said anything the crazier parts of the fandom will be ready to pounce on her and rip her to shreds. Considering how some of the posts are reading, some of the fandom seem practically ready to turn on the creator of their beloved series in order to fight the good fight.

How the hell did the fandom turn to this?
I honestly don't know. But I feel that this isn't so much the Steven Universe fandom but the consequence of having social justice discourse on a site that was only created for micro blogging art and textposts.

It's hard- if not, impossible to have legitimate conversations on tumblr unless your popular and your agreeing/dissenting comment was reblogged by a blog superstar (Over 5k followers or a following that literally reblogs everything they post.)

For instance, some fuck can make a post saying 'All cis people are trash' and you would think most people on tumblr agree with it because it has 10k notes. But those 10 k notes are so baseline as to be completely useless to gauging the actual opinion of that post.
4k of those posts could be people disagreeing with that post. How can you tell? Somemone made a counter argument to that post and most people liked and reblogged THAT one as opposed to the original one. You would never know that though because likes and reblogs under a tumblr post don't tell you who liked from WHAT or WHOM.

So now you have this festering mindspace of liberal minded people who literally put their entire mental health and identity on a site that displays zero qualities of naunce or grey area.

Rebecca Sugar herself is a feminist, Ian Jq is a black man who CO CREATED one of the most progressive shows on CN. I am literally seeing people actually get angry, upset, and actually claiming that both of them (and other staff who commented on the issue.) support white washing, lesbophobia (a literal non existent enemy in the SU fandom.), fat shaming, pedophillia, and erasure because they dared to universally state that people have the right to draw whatever they want, and just because you disagree with it doesn't give you any right to go into their self contained space and flood their inbox with hate mail. These same people also had to be educated that "Draw whatever you want" doesn't mean you are allowed to draw fucking Child pornography. Like how fucking idiotic do you have to be for this to be fucking clarified. It's like making the argument that 'Freedom of Speech' means I can yell FIRE in a building. No, you fucking can't. And that shouldn't have to be specified in the slightest.

To Rebecca's credit she never made a comment on any tumblr drama. But goddamn is this whole thing mind numbingly depressing to watch unfold.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
Antigonius said:
Maybe that person should just turn off their Twitter and Tumblr for a week and don't take it seriously?
This truly is the case and point of "first-world problems" - every time someone makes something like this in my country the only thing most of us does is laugh at the loser...
Christ, this isn't a 'first world problem' (because people don't get harassed in other poorer countries either.

Turning off social media for a week wasn't going to do squat. These people have been talking, harassing, sending hate, and spreading shit about her for fucking years before she finally caved and tried to take her life. It was cyber bullying and stalking.
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

Get the point
Legacy
Apr 14, 2020
2,650
145
68
Cretaceous
Country
USA
Gender
Dinosaur
Dragonbums said:
I feel like why you do have a point about tumbler I think talking about this as a tumbler issue is the wrong mindset.

stuff like this is nothing new at all. if you have someone of the following People are sent death threats over the stupid shit. I once heard a story about a game developer porting his horror game to the vita, and he was literally message by someone that he was going to kill his family for it. a girl was cheered to commit suicide by a bunch of 4chan users and they cheered when she did it, the bomb threats that happened recently at SXSW .

The Internet is making us into heartless monsters, we've grown into entitled dicks who think the world revolves around us and there is no consequences at all. it honestly makes me really damn cynical if it's even worth going on the Internet at this point.

p.s sorry for my spelling
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
Antigonius said:
Dragonbums said:
Christ, this isn't a 'first world problem' (because people don't get harassed in other poorer countries either.

Turning off social media for a week wasn't going to do squat. These people have been talking, harassing, sending hate, and spreading shit about her for fucking years before she finally caved and tried to take her life. It was cyber bullying and stalking.
What makes this a first world problem to me is that in poorer countries, usually, people don't do stupid shit because some random hoohaas (which I'm 100% sure she doesn't even know personally) typed something mean to them.
This is the Internet, kid. Here people can tell you to fuck off. You either grow some balls or ban all harassers. It's not that hard.
Except poorer countries do this same shit. Only they'd probably do it by actually beating you up or spreading malicious rumors about you throughout your community to promote ostracization or outright banishment.
Don't be coy. Cyberbullying is the online version of public harassment. It's just easier to do because their ass is hiding behind a computer screen, whereas in real life there is a good chance someone will find out who you are and call you out for your lies.

This is hardly a first world problem. And acting like third world country populations don't engage in the same shit is pretty arrogant and stems from the mindset that because they are too 'busy' being poor, they somehow don't have the time to be pieces of shit to people they don't like or hold opinions they disagree with.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
tf2godz said:
Dragonbums said:
I feel like why you do have a point about tumbler I think talking about this as a tumbler issue is the wrong mindset.

stuff like this is nothing new at all. if you have someone of the following People are sent death threats over the stupid shit. I once heard a story about a game developer porting his horror game to the vita, and he was literally message by someone that he was going to kill his family for it. a girl was cheered to commit suicide by a bunch of 4chan users and they cheered when she did it, the bomb threats that happened recently at SXSW .

The Internet is making us into heartless monsters, we've grown into entitled dicks who think the world revolves around us and there is no consequences at all. it honestly makes me really damn cynical if it's even worth going on the Internet at this point.

p.s sorry for my spelling
The difference as people before have stated is that those people hold no pretense that they are acting like assholes and malicious jerks.

The people on tumblr are a special brand of hypocrisy because they genuinely think that because this woman drew Rose Quartz skinnier is just as bad as someone slinging slurs at a specific demographic and thus subject to the same treatment.

The latter racist knows he's being racist and quite frankly doesn't give a fuck.

The former however thinks this is how you deal with anything you disagree with.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
Antigonius said:
The biggest problem I have with your argument is that to you, apparently, suicide is better than beating up and/or banishing those, who offend you (on the internet, mind you).
Where in the fuck did you get this from? Where did I EVER say that suicide is better than being cyber bullied? I directly replied to you in response because you claimed that situations of what happened to Zamii are 'first world problems' when that same kind of crap very much happens in those countries but on a much more 'physical reality scale'.
Please don't make up arguments that I never actually claimed to begin with.


I mean - if you want to slit your veins every time someone types you a message that Anonymous will rape your dog or something - be my guest. You'll be in a madhouse in like 3 month of such a life style, but if a person wants to be a drama queen - his choice.
In the end of the day, the most effective way to deal with "cyberbyllying" without dirtying your hands - is to ignore it, for, as I said before and will say until I die - This is the Internet, kid. Here, people can tell you to fuck off. And you either adapt or die (and nothing of value will be lost, frankly).

You seem to be unable to understand the difference between some random asshole saying they are going to kill your dog from a collective group of people who literally follow your move on the internet. No matter what account you have they will be there, no matter what you say they will bash and criticize it, not matter what you post it will be ridiculed. This isn't something that will go away by logging off Twitter for two weeks. She has been putting up with this kind of shit for YEARS and this is also considering the fact that she suffers from depression and some sort of bipolar disorder.

If your ultimate conclusion is 'adapt or die' than quite frankly your a hypocrite. You can't supposedly 'take an issue' with me supposedly claiming that suicide is a better solution to cyberbullying and then advocate 'if you can't handle it well too bad' at the same time.

Either you think people can literally push someone to suicide with zero repercussions or you think that- just like someone can be charged in real life for stalking, harassment, and negligent homicide- the same can happen if someone also does it on the internet.
 

BarrelsOfDouche

New member
Apr 5, 2008
50
0
0
tf2godz said:
I don't want this to turn into a sjw Bloodbath.
Me neither, but people are a whole lot less tolerant of cyber bullies no matter what stupid flag they're only brave enough to wave in relative anonymity. With that said, I'd definitely toss these idiots into the same basket.
 

MrMcDoll

New member
Aug 10, 2012
4
0
0
Jesus fuck. Kids + Internet
Every.
God.
Damn.
Time.
Maybe I'm a monster, but why are these people even ON the internet if they are going to allow the opinions of unknown people cause them to top themselves?
I understand that that could be seen as victim blaming, but no. It is about insulating YOURSELF from potential harm. I mean, to be fair a lot of these tumblr kids are probably doing ALL their inane shit for attention, but how have their parents not taught them to ignore mean shit? or turn their fucking computer off? that as wrong as it may be, the internet is full of toxic cunts?
I will practice that if someone reads this, gets offended and proceeds to tell me to kill myself.
I will look at the comment and then remember that I don't know you, and I don't particularly care what you think about me.
(unless you agree, then I totally wanna hear ALL about it! hashtaghugbox hashtag safespace or whatever the hell they say)

Bottom line, in my opinion, many of these retards are too young and emotionally underdeveloped to deal with the exposure that being on the internet brings. In the real world nobody can bully to the extent they can on the internet, due to police, workplace laws, all that other crap.
However, having said that, you can just turn off your computer, or stop visiting those sites or whatever. So I think they really do have themselves to *PARTIALLY* blame.
 

Tsun Tzu

Feuer! Sperrfeuer! Los!
Legacy
May 3, 2020
1,620
81
33
Country
Free-Dom
Jesus...reading those posts.



Ideology and all that nonsense aside (because, sincerely, I don't care what you believe, I don't want you to die for it and I'm certain the majority of people [SJW or whatever the fuck else] don't either) some of these folks are just fuckin' awful.

I don't even see that as a possibility or something I'd ever consider to be all right.

Like. All of you folks here.

I disagree with some of ya on topics mentioned hereabouts.

Some of your opinions on things upset me and I'm sure things I think/express upset some of you lot as well- but to wish death on any of you, either by your own hand or that of someone else?

Who does that!?

It's genuinely sickening.