# Percentage of Women in Game Development Has Doubled

##### New member
Lotet said:
racrevel said:
Aiddon said:
and it's only going to increase, as time has shown. It's going to get to the point where we will have 50-50 or at least very close to it. Not that a lot of people will admit that
There are very few industries that have 50/50.
I just turned your sentence so it wasn't a guess/assumption. But I don't feel like doing that to Aiddon as well
There was no guessing or assumption unless you force the whole "affirmative action" it won't happen 50/50 in any situation is an ideal

##### New member
chikusho said:
racrevel said:
chikusho said:
MeChaNiZ3D said:
Aiddon said:
and it's only going to increase, as time has shown. It's going to get to the point where we will have 50-50 or at least very close to it. Not that a lot of people will admit that
As time has shown...with what, exactly?
Probably the increasing gender equalization in every field.
Equalization still does not point to 50/50, flip a coin 100 times, equal opportunity does not end in equal outcomes.
Well, as you can see in the original quote, "or close to it". Either way, it's not really a math question. Equal opportunity leads to a shift in perception for everyone, which in turn can increase interest in the minority group, which in turn increases the chances for a perfect split, given that there's enough talent to recruit and there are enough positions to fill.
Even without the perception the chances are incredibly low on a perfect split

#### chikusho

##### New member
racrevel said:
chikusho said:
racrevel said:
chikusho said:
MeChaNiZ3D said:
Aiddon said:
and it's only going to increase, as time has shown. It's going to get to the point where we will have 50-50 or at least very close to it. Not that a lot of people will admit that
As time has shown...with what, exactly?
Probably the increasing gender equalization in every field.
Equalization still does not point to 50/50, flip a coin 100 times, equal opportunity does not end in equal outcomes.
Well, as you can see in the original quote, "or close to it". Either way, it's not really a math question. Equal opportunity leads to a shift in perception for everyone, which in turn can increase interest in the minority group, which in turn increases the chances for a perfect split, given that there's enough talent to recruit and there are enough positions to fill.
Even without the perception the chances are incredibly low on a perfect split
And demanding "a perfect split" to have reached equality is being overly pedantic.

##### New member
chikusho said:
racrevel said:
chikusho said:
racrevel said:
chikusho said:
MeChaNiZ3D said:
Aiddon said:
and it's only going to increase, as time has shown. It's going to get to the point where we will have 50-50 or at least very close to it. Not that a lot of people will admit that
As time has shown...with what, exactly?
Probably the increasing gender equalization in every field.
Equalization still does not point to 50/50, flip a coin 100 times, equal opportunity does not end in equal outcomes.
Well, as you can see in the original quote, "or close to it". Either way, it's not really a math question. Equal opportunity leads to a shift in perception for everyone, which in turn can increase interest in the minority group, which in turn increases the chances for a perfect split, given that there's enough talent to recruit and there are enough positions to fill.
Even without the perception the chances are incredibly low on a perfect split
And demanding "a perfect split" to have reached equality is being overly pedantic.
Yet there are people and blogs that do argue it, I'm just arguing semantics myself, as above equality is about opportunity not outcome.

#### chikusho

##### New member
racrevel said:
chikusho said:
And demanding "a perfect split" to have reached equality is being overly pedantic.
Yet there are people and blogs that do argue it, I'm just arguing semantics myself, as above equality is about opportunity not outcome.
Well, not really any people or blogs in this thread..
Either way, since equal opportunity is still a far faaar way off, the numbers in the OP are more indicative of a direction of future outcomes more than anything else.

#### seditary

##### New member
Callate said:
Though I can't help but wonder if the majority of developers are making under \$50,000 a year, why the budgets for games continue to skyrocket. What are those above that margin making?
Well Assassin's Creed 4 had over its development, over 900 people work on it. Assassin's Creed 2 had 450 or so.

#### saltyanon

##### New member
chikusho said:
Probably the increasing gender equalization in every field.
We probably need more women diving in septic tanks and being waist deep in fecal matter. Yes that job exists.

#### chikusho

##### New member
saltyanon said:
chikusho said:
Probably the increasing gender equalization in every field.
We probably need more women diving in septic tanks and being waist deep in fecal matter. Yes that job exists.
First of all, we don't need women diving in septic tanks, we need people doing difficult sanitation jobs.
Secondly, the sanitation field has also seen an increase in female employees.
Finally, what the hell is your point?

#### saltyanon

##### New member
chikusho said:
First of all, we don't need women diving in septic tanks
We do. Like we need more women in the game industry. For equality and all. A quota must be met.

Finally, what the hell is your point?
Ask the guy talking about gender equalization in every field i.e. ALL fields.

#### chikusho

##### New member
saltyanon said:
chikusho said:
First of all, we don't need women diving in septic tanks
We do. Like we need more women in the game industry. For equality and all. A quota must be met.
What quotas? Who said anything about quotas?

Finally, what the hell is your point?
Ask the guy talking about gender equalization in every field i.e. ALL fields.
So, talking about an obvious societal development occurring throughout the entire modern world would somehow make you magically understand your nonsense?

Sorry, you're going to have to be more specific.

#### Amaror

##### New member
Falterfire said:
Can I borrow some of that straw when you get done with it?
I think he's joking. At least i very well hope he is.

On Topic, great! Kinda Suprising actually, since i study computer science and we have a women ratio of like 5%. 10% max, when he look at human-computer-interaction.
Then again, thinking about it, i guess there will be quite a number of artists and designers in there, so don't mind me.

#### EvilRoy

##### The face I make when I see unguarded pie.
Legacy
Epidemiix said:
Callate said:
Um, good? I'm glad women are having a greater presence in the industry.

Though I can't help but wonder if the majority of developers are making under \$50,000 a year, why the budgets for games continue to skyrocket. What are those above that margin making?
It is because of artists and designers. They get paid significantly less then other positions, such as a programmer, until they are either in a "lead" position, or have been in the industry and are known for great work.
This is mostly because of the large number of people coming into the industry from these backgrounds, while there is not enough positions open for all of them.

Most of the people above that margin are the leads and the programmers, who are making close to 70-100k a year.

Of course the higher ups make way way more...but I don't have number.
If you look at Video Game Programer Career Guide, they have a breakdown of wages. Based on what I'm seeing here, a flat programmer will enter the field and be paid 38K/year, and an experienced programmer will be paid around 68K/year. Since I would expect the vast majority of game dev employees to be programmers, it seems reasonable to assume that most of them get paid < 50K/year to account for the low average.

This makes sense, though, as the high turnover indicated by the IGDA report would imply that there are a lot of low experience people in the industry at all times (few stick around to become experienced).

##### New member
As long as a more diverse talent set equates to a more diverse gaming culture (and more diverse games being produced as a result of it), this is good news indeed.

#### shiajun

##### New member
EvilRoy said:
This makes sense, though, as the high turnover indicated by the IGDA report would imply that there are a lot of low experience people in the industry at all times (few stick around to become experienced).
Maybe that's the reason for an apparent increase in bloated files, buggy gameplay and overall non-efficient game development going on. Most programmers involved in a studio are doing it for the first or second time, and afterwards are spat out by the system, so there's a dearth of finesse and skill in crafting good software in the gaming industry.

#### Lieju

##### New member
saltyanon said:
chikusho said:
Probably the increasing gender equalization in every field.
We probably need more women diving in septic tanks and being waist deep in fecal matter. Yes that job exists.
I grew up on the countryside.
I assure you, the jobs that include wading through shit are hardly male-only.

jpz719 said:
EDIT: To further back up my point I like how nobody finds it such a massive problem that the garbage collecton, construction, and mining industry are mostly men. Mainly because it isn't a problem. It's this sort of double standard that irks me. "We want more women but only in the good jobs!" Not how equality works.
So?
Are there huge amounts of men glamouring for jobs that are as bad as possible?
Because if not, if men aren't asking in droves to work in a dangerous and uncomfortable and unglamorous job on a minimum vage, it's a double standard to expect women to.

#### Weaver

##### Overcaffeinated
Res Plus said:
Not enough, men need to be taught a lesson, there should be aggressive quotas barring men from taking development jobs until there is a 70% to 30% split in favour of women which should be maintained for decade when it can be relaxed as we will have had a solid decade of women driving games.

Only then will fairness and equality be achieved.
Only once equality is eliminated will we have equality!