Percentage of Women in Game Development Has Doubled

Baresark

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Chaosritter said:
Baresark said:
Eh, deleted. I apologize for taking the space. My momma raised me to not say anything if it's not nice.
Your mom or the iron handed Escapist mods? :D

I've read your original post (was quoted in my inbox), and it really wasn't offensive in any way.
Haha, just me moderating myself. It was not offensive, you are right, but I just go the urge to get rid of it.
 
Apr 5, 2008
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Good luck to them, one and all. If the number is to change, it needs more girls going on to study relevant disciplines and moving into the industry.
 

Someone Depressing

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This is awesome. The cynic in me wants to say, "So? They'll still make bad games like the guys", but I've played a few indie games or games with female development leads, and... they're actually pretty fresh.

Then again, this number could easily go down or up, so let's just hope women gain more notice in the industry.
 

Baresark

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After avoiding it, I'll throw my hat in on this mess:

I find the idea that there needing to be more or less of a given sex in a certain job ridiculous. All the women who want to be programmers or work in some aspect of the gaming industry should go for it. But there should not exist some sort of magical 50/50 standard to determine whether a given career is as socially just as it should be. Sure, the top 5% of earners in a corporate environment tend to be dominated by males. These are your CEO's, CFO's, CTO's, etc. These are the top earners in the US, for example. But fields that pay the lowest 10% of income in the US are also dominated by men. AND, the largest percentage of poor and homeless is also single men.

It's true, men dominate in a lot of things. Sure, the best payed people in the US are men. But so are most of the homeless, and the bottom 10% of earners in the US. Women, while not often reaching the upper echelon of income, dominate in areas such as management. I personally answer directly to male Associate Director, who answers to a female Directors, who answers to a female Director. So far as the support desk is concerned, we are probably 70/30 male. In the last 9 months we have hired 2 men and 2 women on the desk because that is who applied and who was right for the job. Not because some magic ratio has to exist in order to satisfy someone's ego.
 

Fairly Chaotic

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Aiddon said:
and it's only going to increase, as time has shown. It's going to get to the point where we will have 50-50 or at least very close to it. Not that a lot of people will admit that
Res Plus said:
Not enough, men need to be taught a lesson, there should be aggressive quotas barring men from taking development jobs until there is a 70% to 30% split in favour of women which should be maintained for decade when it can be relaxed as we will have had a solid decade of women driving games.

Only then will fairness and equality be achieved.
Guys, the American Dream happened years ago and it happened for everyone! Also, by everyone, I do mean every person in this country that is willing to put in the effort to make it happen. No one is held back anymore by anything or anyone, especially women in the current construct of our society. I am sick and tired of people claiming the opposite through their whining, complaining and demands. The above two quotes are mere examples but that faulty mentality is rampant on this site and other sites across the net.

Women, along with everybody else in this nation, are in or not in a certain career by their own choice. Trying to throttle/limit the amount of men in the game industry will not affect the amount of woman attempting to gain and keep jobs in the industry. It'll only artificially augment the statistics and will not help anyone.

There are many women working in the game industry. No, there are not as many women as men but they are there and in their respective positions by their own merits.

There are women in Insomniac. Women are in lead and administrative positions in Microsoft's 343 Industries.

This talented lady has done many things in the industry and abroad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrinne_Yu

Oh, and the hated company of the hour, Ubisoft, has this woman as a managing director and an executive producer. I could be wrong but I believe she oversees the Assassin's Creed series so you can partially thank her for the reasons why most of you are pissed at Ubisoft right now. Go ahead, thank the woman for not having more women in her company's games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Raymond#Ubisoft_Montreal

So I digress, women are there and they are certainly in the managerial, executive, design and development positions. They do not need anyone's help or defense.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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"That said, crunch time is an integral part of the game development workflow, and 38% state they are not even compensated for their extra time."

Basically the industry preys on young and naive people who are too inexperienced to say "no". You can bet the executives, investors, shareholders, and studio owners are profiting off of the "crunch time" that the developers aren't being paid for.

I would be fired the first day a manager asked me to work an uncompensated weekend and I laughed at him then walked away.
 

Steve Waltz

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I don?t work in development, but I do work QA at a publishing company and, yea, there are plenty of women around. I?d say from 65/35 to 60/40 male dominated. It?s certainly not enough, but it?s more than I was expecting which was a wonderful surprise.

But about the 38% saying that they aren?t compensated for their overtime? That probably has less to do with their gender and more about the company they work for. I can?t imagine a company paying the men overtime and not the women without getting some SEVERE lawsuits on the matter.
 

Lieju

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jpz719 said:
It's pretty bloody annoying, to me atleast that nobody cries "Only men work in construction!" mainly cuse the kind of people that do that want cushy jobs with as little effort as humanly possible. Compared to coal mining working in a game dev studio is heaven. Most conversations go down as such:

"Not enough women in game development is a [email protected]"
"But it's not a problem that most coal miners, sewage workers, and waste industry workers are men?"
"Yep!"

THAT is a double standard at it's finest. These people want easy jobs and think that just because men work in a certain industry more then women they can weasel in and make tons of cash doing it.
So where are all these men then that DON'T want cushy jobs with as little effort as possible?
You're talking about human nature, and expecting women to want to do all the shitty jobs as well as the good jobs, while men can just want to have nice things?

In any case, what I want is a society that's gender-neutral or at least more gender-neutral than it's now, which would mean about even split on everything.

Or are you saying being a sewage worker is just something men just want to do more than women?
If we had more gender-neutral upbringing for children, most sewage workers would still be men because it's just more in their biology to wade through shit?
 

Lieju

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jpz719 said:
As I said earlier, the human species is sexually dimorphic. It has 2 sexes. There are acute differences in the brains of said sexes, mainly pertaining to them being basted in 1 or another hormone. Men and women tend to desire different styles of jobs, on average. Men tend to go for larger, high paying but risky jobs, while women have an average preference for stable modest jobs. This is not "inequality". It's human nature. It's physically impossible to have some 50/50 split of the sexes in every workplace on earth without removing the notion of choosing where you wish to work. Strictly trying to enforce quotas such as forced 50/50 isn't going to help anyone. Women have the CHOICE to enter into game development. They, on average CHOOSE not to. Women CHOOSE, more often then men to work in the field of healthcare. It's impossible to have mandatory equality in any workplace without removing choice. And if I were forced to choose I will take choice of workplace 100% of the time.
Source, please.

How can you tell that's biological?

This is anecdotal evidence here, so feel free to dismiss it, but this is what I noticed in high school;
There were two main lines, either you took the math-heavy course (it's called Pitkä/lyhyt matikka in Finnish), or one that had less math that allowed you to take other things.
This divided people into two groups.
And there were way less girls in the math-heavy group.

Because even boys who sucked at math took math because all their friends would. And girls who were good or average at math were more likely to take the course where their friends went.

Because we're talking about teenagers here.

I was always good at math and wanted to study natural sciences, so naturally I took the math-heavy one. (Despite being called things like a 'cheater' in elementary school because girls can't be good at math I guess.)

At least one of the girls in our social group who wasn't good at math and was more of an artist took that course for the sole reason her friend did.

Societal pressures exist.

'Men tend to go for the high paying but risky jobs'.
Like sewage workers, then? Men want to do that? Not that I'm saying sewage work in necessarily a bad choice of career, but if we're talking about 'bad jobs' that men want to do then I guess?
 

Fairly Chaotic

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jpz719 said:
Women have the CHOICE to enter into game development. They, on average CHOOSE not to. Women CHOOSE, more often then men to work in the field of healthcare. It's impossible to have mandatory equality in any workplace without removing choice. And if I were forced to choose I will take choice of workplace 100% of the time.
Finally, someone else who understands. Further more, if we started placing pointless workforce quotas everywhere we would start sending the message that, "women can't get a job of their choosing on their own skills and merits. They need men to bow out to give them a chance. They need men to allow them to work."


Lieju said:
So where are all these men then that DON'T want cushy jobs with as little effort as possible?
You're talking about human nature, and expecting women to want to do all the shitty jobs as well as the good jobs, while men can just want to have nice things?

In any case, what I want is a society that's gender-neutral or at least more gender-neutral than it's now, which would mean about even split on everything.

Or are you saying being a sewage worker is just something men just want to do more than women?
If we had more gender-neutral upbringing for children, most sewage workers would still be men because it's just more in their biology to wade through shit?
Have you ever considered that not everyone wants a "cushy" job? Some people desire to do work that is necessary.
 

Lieju

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jpz719 said:
Cus clearly you can provide sources that upbrings aren't gender neutral? But anyway.
As to sexual dimorphism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism
Most of the homeless population (atleast in New York City) are men.
http://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/pages/basic-facts-about-homelessness-new-york-city-data-and-charts
OBVIOUSLY must be some inequality amongst the profession of homeless.


Secondly, yeah people can be pressured to do stuff. What a shock. Most people can't pressure you into choosing what your career is against your will. More women then men CHOOSE to go into the field of medicine. http://www.aao.org/yo/newsletter/200806/article04.cfm

It's funny how these kind of people only cry "sexual inequality" in good jobs.
I know what sexual dimorphism is. I don't know how that has to do with any particular claims that men like to wade through shit or whatever.

Also are you saying men just want more to be homeless then?

I see we're back to where started, though.

EDIT: Although that article about women inmedicine sort of works against you.
It used to be 'common knowledge' that men just are better at medicine than women.

And in lot of things.
Women can't learn well, don't you know, because if their brain grows too large their womb will fall off.
But shockingly, this sort of turned to be wrong, because it wasn't some unchangeable biological fact that women can't be educated.


Fairly Chaotic said:
Have you ever considered that not everyone wants a "cushy" job? Some people desire to do work that is necessary.
Even so, I'm willing to bet they'd prefer it's safe and pays well. Most people anyway.
 

Lieju

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jpz719 said:
Lieju said:
jpz719 said:
Cus clearly you can provide sources that upbrings aren't gender neutral? But anyway.
As to sexual dimorphism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism
Most of the homeless population (atleast in New York City) are men.
http://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/pages/basic-facts-about-homelessness-new-york-city-data-and-charts
OBVIOUSLY must be some inequality amongst the profession of homeless.


Secondly, yeah people can be pressured to do stuff. What a shock. Most people can't pressure you into choosing what your career is against your will. More women then men CHOOSE to go into the field of medicine. http://www.aao.org/yo/newsletter/200806/article04.cfm

It's funny how these kind of people only cry "sexual inequality" in good jobs.
I know what sexual dimorphism is. I don't know how that has to do with any particular claims that men like to wade through shit or whatever.

Also are you saying men just want more to be homeless then?

I see we're back to where started, though.
Nobody wants to do crappy work. Men accept that and do it because it is a required cost of current society. Women can choose to go into said lines of work. They more often then not choose not to. Again, not a matter of inequality, a matter of desiring something else. Secondly men tend to produce more testorone. A mind alter chemical, mainly produced during puberty, when people decide what they want to do with their life. Women produce mostly estrogen, which alters their thinking in a different way. Again, a case of sexual dimorphism. Men and women tend to desire different things because their bodies are different and produce different chemicals during development.
So do men want to wade through shit or not?
I believe it's of vital importance we clear this out.

And so?
All you're said is that women have different hormones than men. Why are you claiming those hormones specifically mean certain things? You could just as well claim that men like to wade through shit more because of how testicles smell.

Because it used to be commonly accepted knowledge that women couldn't be educated, or become doctors etc.

And you know, just for the record, I'd like to see an even split on all fields.

(But I don't want anyone having to do an unsafe job that doesn't pay well.)
But I'm sure you'll keep saying things like 'Why all of these people only want 50/50 in good jobs?'.
 

FPLOON

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OT: With news like this, here's hoping the future keeps getting more diverse for the better...